User talk:Hassocks5489/Archives/2013/October

Codrington House
FYI. This was apparently the private residence of Edward Codrington. Not listed, however. Maybe not worth it.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:17, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

October 2013
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 * the Lawrence family, whose members included Sir William Lawrence Member of Parliament|—a former Lord Mayor of London.  He died at the house in

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 * 84.}} for £60,000 (£0 as of ).
 * £1,692.4s.7d. (£0 as of ) . Volumes of Rembrandt etchings, a 2,000-book library and two elaborate

George de Worms, 2nd Baron de Worms
Before I create the page, can you please make sure that this is him, by checking the dates?Zigzig20s (talk) 19:37, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * We have a problem. If he died in 1902, he can't have lived at Adelaide Crescent until 1913. If you are talking about his son, that would be 3rd Baron according to The Peerage. Can you please check your citation again? Btw, very interesting to note that a member of the Rothschild family lived in Hove, not too far from the Roof-top synagogue!Zigzig20s (talk) 22:01, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Why Percy and not Anthony?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:25, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
 * As you say see, when I couldn't sleep last night, I created George de Worms, 2nd Baron de Worms and his son Anthony Denis Maurice George de Worms, which leads to his grandson Charles de Worms (already created by someone else, though not referenced). The patriarch of the family was Solomon Benedict de Worms (1801-1882), and I think Franz Joseph I of Austria made Solomon first Baronet. The connection to the Rothschild family is there, but needs further citations. It looks like they married among themselves several times, which wouldn't be too surprising for the era (my Catholic great-grandparents did too!).Zigzig20s (talk) 15:11, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Adelaide Mansions
Thank you. I didn't find many references on Google Books, which is odd as it is a beautiful, listed building. Adelaide Crescent sounds very interesting as well. So does the Gothic House on Western Road I think, which I may create later--or feel free to do it. Do keep me posted.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:25, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I have added the WP Sussex again. By the way, it was probably named after Adelaide of Saxe-Meiningen, but it would be good to find a reference for this.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:12, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you find notable residents for this one?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:44, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there have been, but we haven't found them yet. I love the Adelaide Crescent page btw. Are you interested in creating the red links for the notable residents on it (mostly aristocrats)? I created one and it led to his entire ancestors and descendants, who were all very accomplished--who knew! Are you interested in creating the Gothic house as well? I was also thinking of Swanborough Farm, which is not listed but encompasses two lakes (see their website if you're not familiar).Zigzig20s (talk) 11:38, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Looking forward to the Gothic House article!Zigzig20s (talk) 21:05, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I updated the 'notable residents' section of Adelaide Crescent, which makes it a lot easier to read I think. However, could you please add the specific reference for each resident (at the end of the little paragraph/sentence)? I also added three notable residents I found for Adelaide Mansions. As for the de Worms, this led me to create quite a number of pages...very interesting history in Sri Lankan plantations, etc. This is becoming too big of a distraction from work, though.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:07, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Adelaide Crescent
The DYK project (nominate) 09:22, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Providence Chapel
What about the ? Can you find much about it?Zigzig20s (talk) 09:30, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Adjacent is the Providence Chapel, erected as the Nathaniel Episcopal Reformed Church in 1894-6 by Charles Hewitt; the present congregation moved from Church Street in 1965 when their former chapel was demolished.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:32, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * and Followers of William Huntington (preacher).Zigzig20s (talk) 09:35, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I think this could easily be a stub. I wonder if it's possible to visit the church (and take pictures inside). I can't find a website for them.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:45, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Flora Sassoon
I think there are several Flora Sassoon's. Can you please check your reference for Adelaide Crescent and see if 1835–1919 works?Zigzig20s (talk) 14:19, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you help me find a citation for Flora Sassoon's connection to the Middle Street Synagogue, Brighton? The article says the Sassoon family made donations to the synagogue for restoration work, but the sentence is not referenced.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:47, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

William Cavendish in Adelaide Crescent page
Hi again. You mention a certain William Cavendish on your Adelaide Crescent page, when you said he had servants. Is it any one of them?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:24, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I remember wanting to visit the synagogue then and not having the time. Btw, Flora Sassoon is mentioned on the St. Ann's Well Gardens, Hove page, but there is no reference; would you be able to find it possibly? "There was a clock in front of the old pumphouse, donated by Mrs Flora Sassoon, widow of wealthy business man Sassoon David Sassoon of Ashley Park near Walton-on-Thames, who had relocated to Hove with many other members of the Sassoon family. In 1913 Mrs. Sassoon also bought and donated the grounds which became the Croquet Lawns (now the lawn bowling facility). She also donated turf and croquet equipment."Zigzig20s (talk) 22:13, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Cavendish's wife "Lady Emilia Augusta" must be a "daughter of," but we're not quite sure whom just yet! Very surprised about St John the Baptist's Church, Hove btw--I always thought it was ugly and looks a bit "working-class," not patrician at all imo. I think it's the colour of the bricks that gives me this impression. Never been inside however--do you happen to know if it's open to the public?Zigzig20s (talk) 17:17, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Listed Buildings
"Listed" complex definitions and the reasons buildings are listed are usually numerous and sometimes very obscure; its not just an award for "historical" or "important" building. To just give that single reason is very misleading and implies it is purely for that reason that, that building has been listed.

Take the Adelaide Crescent for example. It formerly read: "'The east and west sides of Adelaide Crescent were listed separately at Grade II* by English Heritage on 24 March 1950.[43][45] Such buildings are defined as 'particularly important [and] of more than special interest'.[61]" A single definition has been picked to imply this is the reason the buildings were listed. Buildings are listed for a myriad of reasons or for very small unique features; not just for those two things. This sort of thing (using A and B to imply C) is forbidden by the Original Research policy: WP:SYNTHESIS.

You should really be using wiki-links to point readers through to the page about Listed Buildings where they can get a full definition without the incorrect or incomplete things implied

Best--Rushton2010 (talk) 17:56, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * It's frustrating there's not any more updated totals, but it's valid information nevertheless. The issue is that its out of place on the articles about a specific building. Imagine you're a person looking for that information; its not where you're going to look. It should really be under the "History" section of the main Brighton and Hove page (and if there's separate totals for both Brighton and Hove available, in the relevant sections of those pages), and on the specific B&H listed buildings pages such as Grade I listed buildings in Brighton and Hove, Grade II* listed buildings in Brighton and Hove & Grade II listed buildings in Brighton and Hove. As you have been doing in the other articles, make very sure to be clear as to the date of the information so that people are not mislead into thinking its up-to-date figures.

Best--Rushton2010 (talk) 18:32, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Good work on those. I'm surprised at the amount of photos. Most of those lists are really lacking photos. Seems to be photos for almost all of them, which is fantastic --Rushton2010 (talk) 19:10, 9 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello again. I have just retuned from a holiday, and noticed the edits made by Rushton2010 to articles I am watching.  I do not agree with all that he has done, so I have commented on his talk page. You may be interested to see what I have said.  Best wishes, --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 11:29, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Edward Habershon
Thanks for creating this Storye book. W.G. Habershon and E.P.L. Brock may have enough material for articles as well, which I can look into when I get a chance. Need to check my various Sussex church books again. Hassocks 5489 (Floreat Hova!)  12:30, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm honoured to have created something considered useful by the great Hassocks! But you should thank Zigzig20s for prompting me to publish it. It still has some loose ends to tie, and I'll do a few of those later today if I can. I agree that the other guys deserve pages also, though be careful, as his bro William was wrongly credited at least once with Ed's work. I think there may be a lot of double-checking to be done here.  Have fun! --Storye book (talk) 13:40, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Gothic House, Brighton
The DYK project (nominate) 08:01, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Excellent work as usual. So are you up for the inn FA then?♦ Dr. Blofeld  14:33, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Leah Barnato on Adelaide Crescent page
Hi again. It looks like Leah was Barney Barnatto's daughter, and his wife was Fanny Barnato : and even. Can you please check your citation to see who lived there: his daughter, or his wife? You also seem to have Flora Sassoon's late husband wrong btw. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:30, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * On second thoughts, I am getting closer and closer to the idea that there were two Flora Sassoons: 1859-1936, took over her late husband Solomon David Sassoon (1841–1894)'s family business and moved to England after his death; and then another one with different birth and death dates, who moved to England with her husband Sassoon David Sassoon. There is also [www.wikipaintings.org/en/john-singer-sargent/portrait-of-mrs-ernest-g-raphael-nee-florence-cecilia-sassoon-1905 this one] apparently. This link seems to suggest there is only one by using the first one's dates, but they use the second one's husband, which contravenes all my sources for the article I created. So it is very possible that I created the one who did not live in Hove. What do you think?Zigzig20s (talk) 13:05, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Cool. Btw could you please take pictures inside the Church of the Sacred Heart, Hove as well? The other one is closed all the time except for Mass, and I think that may be because Fr Ray has been harassed by homeless people (see his blog) and is afraid of burglaries, so he might be reluctant to have pictures taken inside, although it shouldn't be a problem as it's always closed... Btw do you know if your church is open all the time, or just for Mass? I would love to go in and light a votive candle. I loved doing that at the Church of the Good Shepherd (Beverly Hills, California) every day last summer, but here in Brighton I can't because they're always closed it seems...Zigzig20s (talk) 12:28, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I think I must be right about Flora Sassoon. Also, I'm happy to try and create a page for Leah Barnato, the diamond heiress...Will you please try to take some pictures of inside your church this Sunday btw? They e-mailed me back btw and aren't open mucch because they don't have enough volunteers for it. I wonder how we could find more volunteers.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:24, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the Flora Sassoon who lived at Adelaide Crescent, may have been Reuben as maiden name. And thus somewhat connected to David and Simon Reuben. I don't really have time to sift through the Reuben family of Baghdad right now though.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:48, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it's wrong to write about the croquet donation on Flora Sassoon's page as it must be the other one, whose husband's page I can no longer find right now--can you? It was created by someone else a while ago and I improved it.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:07, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, this one: Sassoon David Sassoon. So, I think the croquet/Hove donations should go to this page instead, as it is his wife, not the other one. I'm almost certain, because they're the ones who lived in Walton-on-Thames until he died and she moved to Hove. Also if you can help me find the names of their four children with a citation, that would be great. I think it links up with some of the UK's richest people as I said earlier, so very relevant.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:09, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Public services in Crawley
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:02, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Flora David Sassoon
. OK so, dead in 1887, born in 1812 perhaps? Definitely wife of Sassoon David Sassoon (1832–1867).Zigzig20s (talk) 21:58, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Her tomb in the Novo Beth Chaim Sephardi Cemetery, London, England.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:00, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Middle Street Synagogue, Brighton
Looking forward to seeing your pictures of inside the Middle Street Synagogue, Brighton (although I've seen a youtube video for a preview!). When do you think you'll be able to upload them on Wikimedia Commons please?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:16, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Cool. Btw I wonder if Medina Terrace could lead to an article? Let me know if you find much about it.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:48, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Btw, do you know what happens after M? Is there a lot more to explore still? Also, Montpelier Hall might be good for an article, although I'm not sure it's possible to stretch it. Nemeth has an interesting article about it on his blog.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:06, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Have fun! I created Caroline Rose Hunt's page after I read about her philanthropic endeavours, and this led me to create Highland Park Presbyterian Church (Dallas, Texas) and Mark Lemmon, and now there are many more red links lol...But I'm here until November, so rather keen on looking up local history and visiting more places...I'd like to create a page for Regency Town House as well--I missed the visit last weekend and there are no future dates on their website for now--but I'm not sure if pictures are even allowed during the visit.23:34, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * There's a category.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:40, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
 * What about the Mercure Hotel? I can't tell if it already has a wikipedia page or not (if it used to have another name), but it is listed.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:05, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely. "The grade 2 listed Mercure Brighton Seafront Hotel in Brighton has stuccoed Regency frontage, original mirrors, chandeliers and high-ceilinged ballroom" on their website for a start. Btw what crazy wind today!Zigzig20s (talk) 14:14, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Btw, I also wonder about the Thistle Hotel--when was it built and what was there before--I don't expect it to be listed, but out of curiosity...of course it's a chain: Thistle Hotels. Also, it would be great to expand the Hilton Brighton Metropole, where I've stayed many times.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:22, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Here, the door of the lift (inside, but on the ground floor) would not close because of the massive draft. I had to walk up the stair. So, if you want to make me happy, do expand the Hilton hotel and create the Mercure Hotel as well...and that big building on the way to the lagoon...but hey, up to you. Keep me posted.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:44, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh cool. I mean the one way before the lagoon--I posted a picture from wikimedia commons a few days ago--the big block after Adelaide Crescent, but closer to the sea. But yes, it is fantastic to be able to understand what surrounds us as we go for strolls or even run around for errands. I don't look at the Gothic House the same way any more, and I walk past it all the time as I go to Waitrose a lot. There are a few more interesting buildings on that street towards Churchill Square btw, one of which is HSBC I think (and listed as I recall), and another one is now the Pound Shop but was meant to be an upscale shopping center I think. Btw I think Marine Gate is ugly, but I don't like anything too modern. More to the point, can you find the dates and full names of Wimperis, Simpson and Guthrie? Has the architect, Maurice Bloom, designed other notable buildings?Zigzig20s (talk) 16:42, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Any notable residents at Marine Gate, Brighton?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:10, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi. You may want to use this picture. Also massively interested if you can expand Embassy Court--I haven't found much in Google Books, strangely enough. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 12:24, 29 October 2013 (UTC)