User talk:Havers

Hello, Havers, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: Introduction The five pillars of Wikipedia How to edit a page Help How to write a great article Manual of Style

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Spam warning
Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, one or more of the external links you added do not comply with our guidelines for external links and have been removed. Wikipedia is not a mere directory of links; nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, then please discuss it on the before reinserting it. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. GlassFET 17:02, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Dear GlassFET,

Please remove this spam warning.

You say that it is against Wikipedia policy for editors to add links to advertise. However, if you had afforded me the courtesy and taken the time to ask, I would have told you that the link was not to my website. I do not have a website.

I live in the UK. Whereas, the site in question is an American website. The link was to an information and education website that provides excellent, free, information written by a knowledgeable (American) university professor.

I had found a valuable resource. I wanted fellow Wikipedia readers to also benefit from that valuable resource.

I am a new editor. Is that spam?

Kindest regards,

Havers 09:23, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Not Spam
Dear GlassFet,

I do not understand why you have recently removed links that I added. Moreover, I do not understand why you have given me a spam warning. The external links were not spam.

How can free information [written by a senior university professor] at a free, non-profit making, information website, be classified as spam?

I wish to object to your removal of links that I think are beneficial to the subject? What is the procedure, please?

I'm a new editor.

Kindest regards

Havers 11:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

==2nd spam warning== Please do not add inappropriate external links to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a mere directory of links, nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Inappropriate links include (but are not limited to) links to personal web sites, links to web sites with which you are affiliated, and links that attract visitors to a web site or promote a product. See the external links guideline and spam policy for further explanations. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, then please discuss it on the article's talk page rather than re-adding it. ... richi 17:02, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * In reply to your query, it is against Wikipedia policy for editors to add links to their own sites. Such links are described using Wikipedia shorthand as "spam". See WP:SPAM for full details, especially the section titled How not to be a spammer. Editors and admins take a dim view of this and will ban users who don't stop when warned. Thank you ... richi 22:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Dear Richi,

You say that it is against Wikipedia policy for editors to add links to their own sites. However, if you had afforded me the courtesy and taken the time to ask, I would have told you that the link was not to my website. I do not have a website.

I live in the UK. Whereas, the site in question is an American website. The link was to an information and education website that provides excellent, free, information written by a knowledgeable (American) university professor.

I had found a valuable resource. I wanted fellow Wikipedia readers to also benefit from that valuable resource.

I am a new editor. Is that spam?

Kindest regards,

Havers 09:10, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I sincerely apologise. I'd mixed you up with another user who was systematically spamming links to his own commercial site last night. Sorry. I think Jrod2 is probably correct (below). However, I'd also echo GlassFET's suggestion that you review the External_links policy. One more suggestion: normally Wikipedians don't post on their own talk page, except to copy what they've said to other people ... richi 13:30, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't go as far as to say that I think the link should be included on the page. I think there's merit in both GlassFET's and Jrod2's arguments. On balance, I'm uncomfortable about it's inclusion, that's why I removed it from Zazen and the other pages ... richi 18:47, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia, here is what you can try first.
I have looked at the link's web site and I find it suitable for inclusion in the article. However, posting it as an external link may not be the way to go. You must find a paragraph in the body of the article that can be referenced to your link. If nothing can be found then add that relevant information yourself. You could even start a new section on "Seminars" or whatever. As long as it's in context with the article, no one can oppose a link from a site that has no advertisement and appears to be written by an authority in this field. Later on if someone challenges that authority, you could try to prove his notability by getting articles or interviews made about him. Finally, if you are still getting editors telling you on your talk page that they have a problem with your link(s), take your views to Third Opinion were you can raise consensus, get advise or a resolution by other editors. Hope this helps. Jrod2 04:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

It's still spam
The reason it is spam is because the materials on the site are there solely to drive traffic to the main content of the site. The site's name is lasting-weight-loss.com, and all the menu items on the left are about weight loss. It has "Testimonials" and appears to be designed to get people to use the contact form to contract for "training" of some sort. In addition to this, each page has a form for "subscribing" to a course. This is traffic driving pure and simple and not a reliable source nor an appropriate external link. I will continue to remove links to this site whenever I find them, and if spamming for this site continues, get it added to the blacklist. If it's not your site, all find and good, but don't help drive traffic to "subscription" sites. Better information is available elsewhere. GlassFET 14:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: external links
Dear Havers,

I believe that you are a new user who has the best intentions at heart and didn't come to Wikipedia to spam. That said, getting into a dispute with user GlassFET will not accomplish anything whatsoever. Taking your request for comments at Third Opinion without trying my suggestions above, will most likely yield disappointment to you. WP has very strict rules on external links and already 2 editors appear to be opposed to inclusion. That said, if you had seen on top of that article page (Buddist Meditation) the template that I am attaching below, would you have read the instructions on how to submit external links properly? I am sort of conducting a survey as many new editors like you that come to WP are being discouraged to edit by the more experienced ones. Your feedback will be appreciated. Thanks. Jrod2 18:56, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Your sex (or "gender" if you prefer)
Ooops, sorry! How about creating your user page? ... richi 20:39, 26 August 2007 (UTC)