User talk:Hectorian/Archive 1

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 * Just don't forget about Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View policy and you'll be fine. ;) --Khoikhoi 15:31, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey
Sorry man,i know you Greeks are sensitive on this pogrom thing, and you are right. I thought it was still mentioned in demographics. Believe me we Turks are really sorry for that stupid mob and we would like the Greeks to stay with us. Sorry again


 * Hey,no problem!and it's really nice that u are thinking this way! --Hectorian 01:48, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes,each person in Istanbul that i talked to verify this thinks that it was a big ignorance and stupidity of this mob. I wish we could turn back time. Now the city is filled with Kurds.


 * I have heard this by Turks before...and i know that the civilians there are not to be blamed for what happened. i just hope that things will get even better, and everything with be fine again...! --Hectorian 01:56, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Number of the Greeks
I think that the [] page about the Greeks is incomplete or inaccurate in some cases concerning the number of the Greeks.so,i have decided to start a topic here,in my talk page,in order to improve it.anyone is welcomed as far as he/she can state sources and reasons.

Before starting i would like to ask for the classification 'who is a Greek?',and i am proposing the following distinctions:

1.those who have greek national consciousness(but this is rather difficult to be sited,wheather someone has or not)

2.those who speak greek(but this way greek-speaking populations e.g. in italy and turkey should be included,and not-greek speaking populations in ukraine and russia should not)

3.those who are greek orthodox(but religion has long ago stopped been the major reason for ethnic identities)

4.those who have greek origins(hard to say this,which may also lead to racial and racist theories)

5.those who have greek citizenship(but a governmental paper can be an accurate reason for an ethnic identity)

I can site some sources concerning the greek population in various countries,but before editting them in the article,i think dialogue is needed. thanks.--Hectorian 09:35, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hello. Yes, I actually put in some figures for the Greeks and did some work on the page on and off. One of the problems is that many Greeks outside of the immediate area of the Balkans have intermarried, such as in the US which has a large Greek population, while in other places it has assimilated partially. I had a tough time because some of the figures I put in were dubbed by one wikipedian as 'biased' towards Albanians which was not my intent. We can, at best, work with estimates I'd say. The Greek census and the US census, for example seem to work to some extent, but ultimately it's a tough call. I think the main criteria should be people who speak Greek outside of Greece and Cyprus and the figures inside Greece would depend upon other factors as there is a growing debate in the EU as to whether or not there should even be actual ethnic groups per se such as in France (the French people debate was something I also got into). I'd skip the Greek origins part since Greeks settled all over the Mediterranean and it's not feasible to count people who might be part Greek. Which sources did you have in mind? Ethnologue seems to count the number of Greek speakers at over 12,000,000. Perhaps some of these figures could also be added. You might want to continue this conversation at the Greek peoples page though just for the sake of wider participation of the regulars interested in the article. Tombseye 19:33, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I have moved the discussion in []--Hectorian 19:42, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Reply
Ok, sorry for reverting your edits. You can revert back any time. --Khoikhoi 21:33, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

hello Hectorian
I'm not sure I can help you right now (I'm into many things and a little stressed) but you may contact me again if you wish :)

Take care and welcome to WikiPedia! talk to +MATIA 22:47, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Welcome
Γεια σου Εκτοριανέ. Με ενδιαφέρει πολύ το θέμα που επέλεξες. Θα το παρακολουθήσω. NikoSilver 23:58, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Cyrus
Hey, no problem. People like that, who get accounts just to vandalize are supposed to be blocked forever, but I didn't report him. --Khoikhoi 23:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Inanna
Hmmm... Do you suggest page protection. You should go on the internet or find books that are reliable sources for statisics like these. Not a Greek website, not a Turkish website, but a site that is completely neutral and will give you accurate data.

Once you've done that show it to Inanna and ask her what she thinks. Hopefully this will end the conflict. Does she have any neutral sources about what Greeks did to the Jews during WWII? I'd like to see them, being a Jew myself.

I'm seriously trying to not take any sides her but ask her about the Armenian Genocide and see what she says. I'm just curious. --Khoikhoi 06:10, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey, thanks. We'll just wait for now until she reverts again and we can post our sources on the talk page.


 * Just a question, what are the demographics of Greece? What percentage is it Greek? --Khoikhoi 19:36, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks man, that was really interesting. So I guess the Vlachs have been sort of assimilated into mainstream Greek culture, or do they still maintain aspects of their own culture? What part of Greece are you from? I've always wanted to go to those islands in the Aegean. ;) --Khoikhoi 02:04, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Interesting that there are still Jews left in your hometown. I was reading the Romaniotes article, and it says:


 * During World War II, when Greece was occupied by the Axis, 86% of the Greek Jews, especially those in the areas occupied by Nazi Germany and Bulgaria, were murdered despite efforts by the Greek Orthodox Church and many Christian Greeks to shelter Jews. Although the Germans and Bulgarians deported a great number of Greek Jews, many were hidden by their Greek neighbours. Despite this though, roughly 49,000 Jews were deported from Thessaloniki alone and exterminated.'


 * In the History of the Jews in Turkey article, it says:


 * Turkey granted protected minority status to the Jews in 1926. During World War II, Turkey served as a safe haven for Jews -- while the Jewish communities of occupied Greece were wiped out almost completely by German and Bulgarian occupation forces, the Turkish Jews remained secure.


 * So in conclusion, both the Greeks and the Turks helped out the Jews during WWII. Both groups did the best they could to protect the Jews.


 * Oh, by the way, I'm from California, USA. [[Image:Crystal ksmiletris.png|20px]] --Khoikhoi 05:22, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your comment on my talk page. Actually, I'm little tired from all those discussions on the Macedonian talk pages and I will get some rest. As I can see on your user page, you are supporter of Palestina, Kurdistan, Tibet etc, so maybe you will be supporter of good faith between our two countries! See you... Bitola 18:16, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Believe me, I sympathize. That's why I recommended opening a user conduct RFC. From looking at contribs and block logs, User:-Inanna- accumulates blocks and then goes back to edit-warring and personal attacks. Blocking the user for a WP:3RR violation that wasn't, or yet another personal attack block just delays the problem. An RFC may convince the user to change their behaviour. Jkelly 03:30, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

User templates
Hey, no problem! --Khoikhoi 18:34, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Great job. I suggest you notify the goddess Inanna about this. --Khoikhoi 23:07, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * If she does that I'll notify an admin. And the page won't get unprotected until the "dispute is resolved". ;) --Khoikhoi 23:22, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

'Macedonians' in Greece
I did accept the olive branch, but that doesn't mean I am going to stop editing articles. I did not violate anything or anyone's views of "peace". I included a sourced piece of information, remember, Wikipedia is not claiming 1 million Macedonians in Greece, its stating different numbers from different sources. One of these sources are from the Macedonians of Greece themselves, who claim there are 1 million Macedonians. Its only fair for all sources from all sides to be included, especially in a situation like this where there are no official numbers like a census. Macedonia 23:34, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

But 1.5 million refugees did not come in Greek Macedonia, I would say 700,000 the most. So thats 800,000 remaing Greeks left. Perhaps those 800,000 Greeks are the decendents of Greeks already in the region. (Don't forget, many Greeks from other parts of Greece also came to Macedonia after the Pontic refugees.) --Macedonia 23:59, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

And about those numbers that you mentioned, "...in the same sense,there are sources claiming 250000 aromanians in FYROM and other sources that talk about 1.3 million bulgarians...", well, all those have no sources at all, they are racist remarks made by people who are trying to deny the very existence of Macedonians. Unlike the number I added, which is derived from a real reliable source, the Human Rights Watch International. --Macedonia 00:03, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Again, I don't want you to think that Wikipedia is saying 1 million Macedonians in Greece, the article says: "Ethnic Macedonian activists in northern Greece assert that half of the population of Greek Macedonia is of Macedonian descent". Therefore, readers like yourself are free to assume what ever you want (whether its true/false, almost). So whether or not the number is real or not, I think it should stay only if it says "Macedonian activists" so that readers know where the number is from or how reliable it really is. Macedonia 00:16, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid you don't understand what I mean. I am not saying that the Macedonian activists are a reliable source, mabey no one does, thats why on the article it says "Macedonian activists" claim this number. So this way if people like yourself think that the number is totally wrong, they will read that only Macedonian activists have said this and then they will know why its a big number. Macedonia 00:28, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

But this is where you are WRONG. I did not put that 1 million Macedonians live in Greece on the Greece article, I put it on the Macedonians article. So you can put what ever you wanted in the Aromanians article. I guess this ended our dispute, take care, Macedonia 00:36, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Inanna
Actually, every time she tries to delete comments from talk pages other than her user page she's been reverted. I'll re-add the comment, and we'll see what happens. --Khoikhoi 02:12, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I was thinking about that, for Iranic. But I'm not sure if it's used as much as Iranian. The dispute is weather it's a valid term. --Khoikhoi 02:14, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think that will end the dispute. People like Diyako want to see the page deleted or merged. --Khoikhoi 02:21, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * No problem! --Khoikhoi 02:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Xwsta!
Empaine Ektoriane giati den antexw allo me tous sfeteristes twn... mhlwn mas kai tou pappou mas. Nomizw oti prepei na proste8ei sto ar8ro tous sto tmhma istoria, oti den exoun sxesh me ton pappou, gia na 3eka8arisoun ta pragmata mia kai kalh. Otan to apofasiseis, epeidh apo oti blepw eisai melethmenos, egw kai alloi 4 pou synennooumaste eimaste pisw sou 100%. Mono proetoimase to swsta prin kai eidopoihse mas. NikoSilver 23:38, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Adhmonw! NikoSilver 18:42, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * An 8es na gelaseis empa sto ar8ro gia olo to ritzion kai des ti tous ekana revert kai pws to dikaiologw. Tous exw afhsei na skeftontai dior8wseis le3h-le3h. NikoSilver 18:50, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Para poly kalo to syntaktiko. Perimenw antidraseis. 8a eidopoihsw toys ypoloipous. NikoSilver 22:57, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Mpravo ektoriane!Poly kali i douleia sou gia tin "proin xwra". Siga siga prepei na to ebedidoun kai oi idioi tous oti den exoun kamia apolytws sxesi oute me ti Makedonia oute me ton Alexandro oute me tipota apo auta. Giati oi ilithioi nomizoun oti an oikiopoiithoun to onoma tha mporoun an exoun kai tin istoria tou, alla logariazoun xwris tous ksenodoxous. Keep walking...--Makedonas 02:13, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Macedonia (region)/Archive 2
Please take a look at it. NikoSilver 12:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Nomizw ta afairesan ta ar8ra. Kapou ta eixa diabasei kiolas.


 * SOS! Koita ta kolpa pou kanei o typos sthn parapanw selida. Diabase to talk-page tou +MATIA gia na katalabeis... Xreiazetai pollh douleia m'aytous kai se polla ar8ra. NikoSilver 23:11, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Macedonia
Hey Hectorian,

Sorry about that. It looks like you re-added your contributions the wrong way. Instead, you should click on the old version of the page, and click "edit this page". That way the wikification won't be destroyed. Let me know if you understood that. ;) --Khoikhoi 00:19, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You edited the article three times? That's ok to do...don't you mean reverted instead?


 * Hey, would you be able to really help me out? Please revert the following pages:


 * Turkmen people
 * Timur
 * List of massacres
 * Ottoman Empire
 * Chios Massacre


 * Inanna continues to try to change history like it's her own personal playground. Please help me out here, thanks. :) --Khoikhoi 00:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you. --Khoikhoi 01:00, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks. I was thinking of reverting, but I'm glad that you did it. You're right, sometimes she'll take the highest number mentioned in a source to make the Turks look good, or she'll take the lowest number in the source to make the Greeks look bad. *Sigh*, it never ends. I think the example of African Amercians is a good example, don't worry I'm not offended. ;) Ever heard of Rodney King? He was a black guy who was videotaped being beaten by the police. A lot of other racial minorities in my country often feel targeted by the cops because the police sometimes stereotype against them because of their economic status and race. It's a bad problem that we have. --Khoikhoi 02:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah yes, the riots in France where pretty big, wern't they? They were in the news over here for a long time. Inanna knew that the user was a Kurd because he/she said so. See the bottom of Talk:Kurdish people. But still, for someone who has said that she "hates all Greeks" - there isn't really no point in talking to them at all. It's basically the definition of...I actually gotta stop talking about her, it's not very nice. I must end this with one final thing though. For someone who is also Jewish (yes Inanna is a Jew) - a people that have been persecuted since ancient times, you'd think that she'd be more tolerant. --Khoikhoi 03:19, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I know. Btw, check your email... --Khoikhoi 03:37, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

You are a great example of typical poisinous greek.Editing lie massacres and denying your barbarism is really neutral.Turkish-Cypriot massacres never happened?! Even your terrorist state admited that.My family were victims of greek brutality.And don’t worry.I am going to add american terrorism against indiands, blacks, phillipinos and vietnamese.

Don’t confuse everyone with your homosexual nation.You should ask my feminence to my bf.I didn’t suprised actually because i know how is like greek women...Retarded traitors are in every country.That doesnt mean most Turks have friendly senses against you.You have killed our 1 million people.You’re already a poor nation.So why we forgive you?

If you have(i don’t think so) a little bit manliness(this is for all of you) write your opinions about me in my talk page and don’t beg help at all times.Manliness is not been to carry penis on your front.Just as Turkish woman bands had cleaned greek palikaria brigands from aegan region...Inanna 08:29, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * 1. You said it was never happened.All of them were made by greek government.State-terror! But i can’t expect something diffrent from you.Double-Standards...And anyone can use their opinions, don't interest anyone...
 * 2. You called me “Guy/Girl” at first and then i said the trues.Is it lie? How can i describe diffrent than that? Even homosexuality has started in greece.Wrong? and i suppose no straight love homos...Greek girls in miss universe?!!! I have never seen.You can see the diffrence in cyprus.Greek-cypriot men are runing behind the Turkish-Cypriot girls ther tongues out.So show just one beautiful greek...
 * 3. I mean a Turk who can be friendly agaisnt a greek is traitor.Don’t bastardize again...
 * 4. Who are you and can decide about my origins? Don’t suppose everbody is like you...
 * 5. Go ahead! I am too afraid...Inanna 14:30, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * 1.	Yes, there are terror in the eastern Turkey.But it’s kurdish terror and everybody kills terrorists.”Greece” is the biggest reason of terror in Turkey.
 * 2.	All you should thank my bf in order to i can’t busy with you all the time anymore.
 * 3.	“The Woman” was the most inferior thing at ancient greece.To say “woman” to someone was the greatest swearing.See what Hesiodos said.Book of Eflatun became the perverts’ handbook.So gay relations has started and grown so much at ancient greece...Homosexuals should keep their behaviours or they’re very bad examples for new generations.Unless they don’t behave anormal, that’s none of my affair...How many times should i say that i’m not muslim?
 * 4.	Goddesses? Haha...i wanted you to show me beautiful greek women.Not the organisation.If they really did, they must be Turkic or Albanian origin.
 * 5.	Until before barriers opened, i could walk around by bikini at North Cyprus.After greek tourists has started to come to north, i couldn’t.They are watching like an ox.Thanks to god we live seperated and north is the best place in the world to live.
 * 6.	I want to say at first that i never care that mikiawards.I advise you don’t be fool by the idiot soap-operas at TV.We already have a diffrent target by these series...
 * 7.	Nobody can wash my brain(unless i don’t want).I know my noble roots very well and i didn’t decide about that.I don’t know what Khoikhoi said you by e-mail but i’m sure such a silly things.
 * 8.	I never capitulate to unfairness and double standards and i will not...Inanna 21:22, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I replied you.Giving examples.Last but not least, you are younger than me.So go and play with your toys.I just feel sorry.Afterall, you are a greek and i'm a Turkish.Your complex is unavoidable...Inanna 21:42, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

As a result you understood me.Why i force myself to speak english very well.I already don’t like it and that’s none of your affair. Inanna 22:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ela Ektoriane, min tis dinis simasia, i Inanna ehi pi anikta pos misi olus tus Ellines - den ine oli i Turkii hristes etsi, ego eho milisi me alus pu ine to akrivos anditheto. I gaidurya stin periptosi tis den ehi oria - ine eknevrismeni pu voithas na svinume tis aidies tis. Se ligo tha se lei ke "watchdog tu Khoikhoi" ;-) --Latinus 11:36, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Pare ena vraviio. Kanonika tha elega oti su to dino pu den andidras ashima otan se prokalii i Inanna, ala i afierosi pu evala den ine ashimi ;-) --Latinus 11:42, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey thanks Hectorian! I'll take a look at those links. Btw, next time Inanna makes personal attacks like she did above make a message on WP:PAIN. Interesting information about Atatürk btw. --Khoikhoi 19:12, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi
Please check your e-mail. --Latinus 12:46, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you think you could give your assistance on Bitola - it's a hard area. --Latinus 17:42, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Prepei na deis kai ti ekane kapoios prox8es sto ar8ro gia olh thn perioxh (3ereis poio). Pros8ese ola ta an8ellhnika quotes kai afairese ta filellhnika. NikoSilver 13:32, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * M'areseis giati eisai grhgoros! An mporeis twra baltous kai liges anafores gia na skasoun. NikoSilver 14:12, 5 March 2006 (UTC)




 * Pare kai ena vraveio giati eisai megalos magkas!NikoSilver 14:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ektoriane, den ksero an to gnorizis, alla diavase ligo to 3RR. Simfona me afton ton kanona boris na kanis epanafora (revert) se ena arthro (i opiadipote selida) mono mehri tris fores kathe ikositetraoro. An kanis perissotera, tha su valun frayi ya ikositeseris ores. Kita ena paradigma  pos to apefiga ego eno o hristis makedonia efaye frayi. Prin kanis epanafora des ti ora ine piyene stin istoria tis selidas ke des apo tin idia ora tin proigumeni mera, poses epanafores ehis kani ke na epanaferis ti selida mono an ise siguros oti den tha paraviasis ton kanona. Epanafora yinete ke "en meri", diladi ke allayi lexis yinete na theorithi epanafora. An den ise siguros, min epanaferis, as to ke tha to kani kapios allos. S' ta leo afta epidi ise shetika kenuryos ke bori na min to ixeres. --Latinus 15:15, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Kata tin gnomi mu, kalo ine arga na kanis tis epanafores. Diladi an kapios kani mia epanafora pu den su aresi, as' to ya duo i tris ores, ke meta epanafere tin proigumeni ekdohi. Etsi, bori na ehi varethi aftos ke na ehi fiyi ap' ton ipoloyisti tu ke bori kapios allos na ehi di ti ekane ke na to epanaferi aftos prin apo sena, opote den tha hriasti na kanis epanafora katholu. --Latinus 15:30, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Pros8esa liges syndeseis... He-he-he ;-) NikoSilver 15:46, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi
Please support category Kurdistan against some biased users. Thank you very much.  D iyako Talk + 17:44, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks a bunch for the barnstar Hectorian! This seems to be the week of barnstar-giving, as I've only had 1 for the longest time and suddenly I have 3. ευχαριστώ! --Khoikhoi 18:16, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Hehe, I don't know Greek, I just got it from Wikitionary. ;)

S´efxaristo
S´efxaristo pou boh8as sto ar8ro gia thn arxaia makedoniki glossa. Den mporw na 3anakanw epanafora. Boh8eia. Na tou kaneis an thelis 3R,emploki! --Asteraki 20:36, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ektoriane, lipame pu su ekana anastrofi, alla ti na kanume, afti i ekdohi ine POV. Na kanume mikres allayes, ohi na leme oti ine veveo oti itan Elliniki dialektos (mallon tha itan), alla oli i akadimaiki de simfonun. Borume na grapsume oti i perisoteri akadimaiki pistevun oti itan, alla ine POV na pume oti ine veveo. --Latinus 20:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Ektoriane, the hriastume voithia sto Macedonia (region). --Latinus 23:27, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

"Philhellen" = "Greek Patriot"
Ektoriane, des ti apanthsa ston Septentrionalis sto Talk:Greeks. Ta idia pros8esa kai sto Philhellenism opote eykola ki wraia stelneis opoiondhpote allo amfisbhtia prokypsei na dei to ar8ro. ;-) NikoSilver 21:07, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Des to e-mail su... --Latinus 23:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Pata to dexi pliktro tu mouse, piyene sto "encoding" ke epilexe "Greek (Windows)". --Latinus 23:55, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Persian kings
Thank you for letting me know. I've fixed the problem by moving template to the bottom of the article. SouthernComfort 14:55, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

You're too neutral(!)Stop concealing what you have done!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by -Inanna- (talk • contribs)


 * Min xanakanis anastrofi se ekino to arthro - iparhi o mireos kanonas :-/ --Latinus 16:59, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

De tha voithisis ton Khoikhoi sto Macedonians (ethnic group)? Den ehi aperiorista apothemata anastrofon :-( --Latinus 22:27, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

 * Efxaristo para poli!


 * Gia ti germaniki pigene sto eki pou lei 21.Hellenische Sprachen kai sto telos tou ipopsifio gia diagrafi:Hellenische Sprachen grapse.


 * Natürlich behalten --Onoma


 * Diladi, fisika diatirisi (=Natürlich behalten)  kai to onoma sou, opos parapano! --Kamikazi2 13:46, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Macedonians (ethnic group)
Really I only wanted to revert Politis, and hadn't seen your change. Personally, I don't have much problems with it, even if I find "discovered in the Greek region of Macedonia" contentious and potentially misleading; reading it, one may understand a sort of claim on all the region, RoM included. Maybe to simply state it was found in northern Greece would be better. Ciao :-) Aldux 16:16, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Kane mu mya hari - epanafere tin teleftea ekdosi mu sto arthro pu sizitame ya na paravyasi aftos to xeris pyo. --Latinus 17:12, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Orea, min ksanakanis tipota tora - kseris yati. --Latinus 17:15, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Diskola apodikniete - kita na dis ti tha kanume; an to ksanaepanaferi, esi tha ton karfosis - tha su stilo to kimeno ke odigies me e-mail. --Latinus 17:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Tha su po pote tha su eho stili e-mail. --Latinus 17:23, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Hector, I've got a brand new link for you. If you don't feel like reading, check the tables at the end of the article:--Komitata 19:23, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Hector, look at Torlakian dialect, which is internationally considered a transitional dialect between Bulgarian, Macedonian and Serbian (although there are at least three different views of its character in the Balkans ;-)),on the question of mutual intelligibility between Serbian and Мacedonian see the Section "Literature", the last sentence. How do you think the Serbians would understand easily Macedonian if they have difficulties with their most southern dialects? Macedonians understand very well Serbian, that is a fact, but maybe it's just a case of lifelong exposition to a similar foreign language, and in the case with Bulgarian, they have been lifelongly restrained of any contact whatsoever, and still even macedonian sources claim mutual intelligibility. I really am amazed at the stubbornness of some people calling the white black and vice-versa. Aren't you already sorry being dragged into the swamp of Southern Slavic identities ;-) ? --Komitata 21:02, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Hector, you must buy me a lot of beers, because I wrote a gigantic explanation about Torlakian on my page. --Komitata 22:35, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

What is the procedure of archiving the talk about Macedonians (ethnic group) and putting to discussion only the contested sentences? --Komitata 13:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Our favourite discussion has disappeared somewhere. Where? BTW, are you there? --Komitata 23:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Turkish Cypriots
Looks good! I added a POV tag for now until the disupte is resolved. I'm pretty busy right now, but I'll try to leave a comment when I can. --Khoikhoi 21:35, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


 * No problem. Btw, today's the day... ;) --Khoikhoi 23:04, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Check your email. --Khoikhoi 23:07, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Did you get my latest email? --Khoikhoi 00:43, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The only way we'll be able to add numbers to counter Inanna's source is to provide a reliable source. You didn't so she'll probably continue to revert. Btw check your email. ;) --Khoikhoi 23:18, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. --Khoikhoi 23:30, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Chios
Thanks to your mention of Frangomichalos I think I've found the main source of the article, and I've added it as an external link. And thanks for the link on the demo. data. Bye! :-) Aldux 20:34, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Check your mail
You can delete this message, if you like --Komitata 23:53, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi, check your mail. --Latinus 16:09, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You've got mail. :) --Khoikhoi 02:09, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Replied. --Khoikhoi 03:01, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Epeigon (SOS)
Xriazome-aste ti voithia sou, giati apo oti eida kseris kalitera galika apo oti ego! Koita, to arthro afto exi protathi distixos, meta apo kapies diorthosis pou ekana, gia diagrafi: Macédoine grecque.
 * Se parakalo voithise kai kane oti mporis gia na min diagrafi!!!! --84.164.207.72 19:27, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Me sixgoris file! Alla an thelis mporis na metavivasis kai se allous Ellines, to minima afto? Efxaristo!!! Na se kala! As to sosoume! Einai krima na to diagrapsi aftos o alitis! --84.164.207.72 19:33, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

It says the poplation of Aleppo in 1906.If you read, you'll see.Compare the Turkish population with other numbers to see neutrality.There are a lot of sources were used which is not in english in other pages.English resorces are generally hacked...

"Syria government,with concept of Arap nationalisic,registered the Turk under the name of muslim during the census,living in Syria.So, Turks real number,expensed a large area. "

Inanna 19:30, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Uzbeks are Turks also."Turk" is the general name of the Turkic tribes.We are the Oghuz Turks but we're a little bit selfish at this point.Besides, numbers are compeletley TRUE! There are assimilation politics in many countries against Turks such as syria, iran ,iraq, greece, bulgaria...Inanna 19:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Kurdish people
Yeah it looks like my edit went through and yours didn't :p AucamanTalk 05:47, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

E8niko Synolo Apanw
Kalws ton Monasthri. Mphke ki aytos sthn koubenta. Den tou trabas allh mia epanafora? Mono, ayth th fora an 8es, kanto mesa sto koutaki, pros8etontas to katw apo to anatolikoi idioi, wste na mporw na 3anampw sto paixnidi. Niko Silver  (T) @ (C) 14:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Re sy, autoi den paizontai! Bale an 8es se parakalw oti exoun sxesh me tous e3 anatolas tous giati egw den mporw na to 3anakanw. Balto sto koutaki pou leei "alloi sysxetismenoi laoi", katw apo to notioi s. kai tekmhriwse basei tou teleytaiou sxoliou mou sto twk. Epishs, pros8ese an 8es kai gia th glwssa mesa sto keimeno. Niko Silver  (T) @ (C) 20:28, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Trikala and Aromanians
I just followed the specifications in the article Alkiviadis Diamandi di Samarina. If you trust your sources, could you also modify it there, then include Grevena in Category:Principality of Pindus (while taking out Trikala)? Note that the article for Alkiviadis does provide reference: in case you don't contest it, could you revert your edits on Trikala? Thanks. Dahn 19:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Boris na prosehis to arthoro ya ti Slavomakedoniki glossa - svinun to kalo onoma... --Latinus 20:33, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Piyene tora - tu ena, tu eho exandlisi ke tis tris, o alos ehi fai frayi mehri avrio - piyene! --Latinus 20:46, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * There is a song from Mary J. Blige, which says: Someone please call 911... ;-) Bomac 20:54, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, this "backup" seems to me like you're the one that pushes edit-warring... :-) Bomac 21:03, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Min kanis epanafora sto arthro ya tus simbatriotes tu Bomaku... ase na mazepsume apanafores ya avrio ;-) --Latinus 21:01, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You'd better listen to him... ;-) Bomac 21:03, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Please help
Hey Hectorian. I'll reply to your email in a second. Until then, please help me out on Adana. Some Turkish editor is trying to remove the Greek name and a paragraph about the Adana massacre. Thanks! --Khoikhoi 01:14, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks again! --Khoikhoi 01:17, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * He reverted again... --Khoikhoi 01:25, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I actually gotta eat dinner now, but I'll reply to your email when I'm done. Keep an eye on the page, will ya? And don't revert more than 3 times. Btw is it true that people eat dinner at like 10:00 in Greece? --Khoikhoi 01:28, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * See WP:3RR. The user has to revert more than 3 times. --Khoikhoi 01:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, the anon has reverted more 4 times, I'm going to report him/her. You have 1 more revert. --Khoikhoi 01:33, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Done. Time to eat. --Khoikhoi 01:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Bon revert! --Khoikhoi 01:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Turkish Cypriots
Thank you for reverting 194.42.22.4's edit previously. S/he apperantly has a problem with the given population number of 500,000 TCs residing in Turkey, that issue needs to be cleared so we finally reach NPoV and remove the tag.--Kagan the Barbarian 09:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I find 500,000 exaggerated as well unless sourced. Anyway, I made some changes on the population part. Take a look, if we agree it is neutral, remove the tag.--Kagan the Barbarian 11:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I want articles to be NPoV, not Turkish PoV. As a Turk of course, my main concern is articles where facts/information about Turks are being distorted or ignored. I am not here to push an agenda, I think people who do so are only fooling themselves and doing great damage to Wikipedia. Anyway, I hope you show the same concern/care for Greek articles, people want information, not POV, we should respect that.--Kagan the Barbarian 16:07, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Kurd stub
Have you seen? --Mais oui! 06:00, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Stub_types_for_deletion

Psit! Milas Romaiika? Min anisyxeis gia to Macraki kai autous tous argosxolous sto "Ellines", exo piges gia na tous apostomono mia zoi. To kako einai pos den exo internet spiti mou kai den mporo na exo ta biblia panta sti diathesi mou. Tha ithela na epikentroso tin prosoxi sou sta arthra "Skopianoi" kai "Monastiri", opou oi Skopianoi orgiazoun. Den prepei na tous afisoume na allaksoun to teleutaio edit pou ekana sto Bitola (logontas taxa oti to Slaviko onoma proigeitai tou Ellinikou kai antistixes blakeies). Den prepei episis na tous afisoume na vgaloun ti leksi "Ellinomakedones" pou katafera na tin sfinoso sto arthro tous. Exo ena aggliko biblio pou legetai "Balkania" to opoio xrisimopoiei auton ton oro (opos akribos tous ton egrapsa), opote oti dikaiologia kai na poun tha einai tou aeros (lene idi kati blakeies). H idia pigi leei pos stin pragmatikotita to ethnos tous yparxei to poly edo kai 100 xronia, kai ta gnosta pou arnountai na paradextoun. Tin Bitola tin grafei mono os 'monastiri', kai kanei anafores se Ellinika xoria gyro apo to monastiri pou eksislabistikan apo tous Boulgarous (diladi Skopianous). Episis dilonei pos oi Slavoi tis Thessaslonikis den itan para mia mikri kai asymanti meionotita pou emene sto Boreiodytiko tis tmima (an thimamai kala). Oi megalyteri koinotita itan ton Ellinon ton Ebraion kai ton Tourkon, to emporio arxika itan sta xeria ton Ebraion kai meta perase stous Ellines, oi Slaboi oute louloudia den poulagan. Auta de thelo na ta balo akoma giati tha ginei panikos kai den exo kai para poly xrono sti diathesi mou. Ta kratao gia assous sto maniki. Tha bgalo merika sti fora aurio ti Deutera, mono kai mono gia na pistopoihso tin xrisi tis leksis "ellinomakedones" (sta agglika), kai tin Elliniki parousia sti Makedonia prin apo tis antallages plithismon. Miskin 17:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Bitola
Hello Hectorian, what I'm doing in the Bitola article is not based on my personal feelings or something like that, instead, I used several different historical sources. According to almost every source I found so far, Bitola as a settlement was established by the Macedonian Slavs that shifted in this area in the VI century:,. Regarding the name, it is considered that the current official name have been gradually derived from the old Slavonic word Obitel. So far, I found two different meanings for the word, the first one tells that it means a monastery, monastery place or monastery settlement and the second one tells that it means a family or house, an area of living. Very interesting fact that supports the second meaning is that the modern Serbian/Croatian word for family is Obitelj (I’m not sure for the other Slavic languages as Russian and Bulgarian):,. Maybe the truth lies (as always) in between, probably the word means a Christian/monastery community, family:. However, you can notice that this word is not directly derived from the Greek word Monastery (Obitel and Monastery as words have completely different structures). According to the Byzantium sources is was called Butela, Butelion, Botila, Botili. For that reason, I think the current design of the naming section satisfies both sides, because it provides the description of the Slavic word Obitel, as well as the fact that the Turkish, official name of the city before 1913 was Monastiri, derived from the Greek word for monastery. So, please don't revert the current version and don't broke the 3RR either. Bitola 18:49, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Aku sto arthro afto, tha sinehisume na kanume afto pu kaname alla perimene na valun frayi se kapyon pu tha tus voithisi - molis ton karfosa ;-) --Latinus 19:12, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Kanume mia orea sizitisi sti selida sizitisis tu arthiru ya to kratos tu. De tha simetashis? :-) --Latinus 19:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

True-born Greeks
If I were editing English people I would certainly include the Angles, Jutes and Saxons; I would include the Danish settlements in the North country, and the settlements of Huguenots, Flemings, and Jamaicans in relatively recent times; I would probably mention the fairly strong arguments (including Cheddar Man) for an underlying population preceeding the Landtaking - both because these things are true and because racists deny them.

I see that most of them are mentioned in the present text.

I would even link to Daniel Defoe's True-Born Englishman. Septentrionalis 19:50, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ya, boris na prosehis to arthro ya tin poli monastiri. --Latinus 22:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Pia skopianika? --Latinus 23:52, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Slavomakedones - iparhun poli tropi na to les sti glossa tus. --Latinus 23:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Kita to e-mail su. --Latinus 00:27, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Hectoriane, esi tha prepi na to kanis. --Latinus 00:54, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I am reverting as resources.It says 69.There are already 6 million kurds in Turkey but here is a propaganda house. Inanna 00:16, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I am editing by mathematic.Sources were already given by your friend.Stop try to find silly things for slander me...Inanna 00:25, 18 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Need some help on Turkish people. Thanks! --Khoikhoi 00:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

3RR
Don't revert again on Kurdish people or you're break the three-revert rule. It says that no one can revert more than 3 times in 24 hours. Don't worry, I'll take care of it. ;) --Khoikhoi 01:20, 18 March 2006 (UTC)


 * No, you can't revert anymore on the Kurdish people page. You already reverted 3 times. Yeah, I asked you for help but it looks like you already reverted. Thanks! --Khoikhoi 01:28, 18 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The 3RR doesn't apply when you're reverting vandalism. Btw I'll reply to you're email when I can. :) --Khoikhoi 02:33, 18 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't revert again on Bitola. --Khoikhoi 02:38, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I just got an admin to block the IP, so we'll see what happens next. --Khoikhoi 02:41, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Sure, can you rv Turkey? --Khoikhoi 02:43, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * It's funny, it's the same guy who used to revert Inanna's edits with me before she got a username back in December. I updated him on what has since happened. --Khoikhoi 02:47, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Hahaha. Yeah, I want to say something but it would probably come out as a personal attack. ;) --Khoikhoi 02:57, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, notice that my old user name was Hottentot. --Khoikhoi 03:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Please help
Hey, will you please revert the guy on the Adana page? Thanks. --Khoikhoi 19:03, 18 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I suggested to the guy that we should mention the massacre but not include numbers for now. What do you think? --Khoikhoi 19:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Eimaste ki emeis edw
Den xreiazetai na eisai tsita sto orio tou 3rr gia to Greeks (akomh ki an einai bandalismos). Mporeis na stelneis kai kana mhnymataki...  N i k o S i l v e <font style="background: #b8b8b8;" color="#ffffff">r <font style="background: #ababab;"> <font size="-2">(T)@(C) 23:06, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ego nomizo, esto na ine vandalismos, na min kanis pano apo tris epanafores. Afto dini stus administratores to dikeoma na se blokarun yati afti apofasizun an itan vandalismos - katalaves. Kalu kaku, as' to - tha to kani kapyos allos. --Latinus 23:19, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Fysika nai. Den eipa na fygoun oi Ellhnes. Na metonomastoun oi apanw, eipa (kai to ennow gia ola ta sxetika ar8ra...) Katse na doume twra poios 8a tetragwnisei ton kyklo... <font style="background: #9f9f9f;" color="#ffffff"> <font style="background: #ababab;" color="#ffffff">N <font style="background: #b8b8b8;" color="#ffffff">i <font style="background: #c4c4c4;" color="#ffffff">k <font style="background: #b8b8b8;" color="#ffffff">o <font style="background: #ababab;" color="#ffffff">S <font style="background: #9f9f9f;" color="#ffffff">i <font style="background: #ababab;" color="#ffffff">l <font style="background: #b8b8b8;" color="#ffffff">v <font style="background: #c4c4c4;" color="#ffffff">e <font style="background: #b8b8b8;" color="#ffffff">r <font style="background: #ababab;"> <font size="-2">(T)@(C) 23:41, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Edosa ena soro piges kai autos o akatanomastos ilithios sto "Ellines" synexizei na grafei ta tou kefaliou tou. Ego prepei na fygo kai de tha mporo na ton epiblepso mexri aurio. Min ton afisete na perasei tis blakeies tou, oi piges einai sto Talk. Hectorian, aurio tha symmetasxo sti syzitisi peri Skopianon giati simera den prolabaina. Miskin 17:46, 20 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You've got mail too. <font style="background: #9f9f9f;" color="#ffffff"> <font style="background: #ababab;" color="#ffffff">N <font style="background: #b8b8b8;" color="#ffffff">i <font style="background: #c4c4c4;" color="#ffffff">k <font style="background: #b8b8b8;" color="#ffffff">o <font style="background: #ababab;" color="#ffffff">S <font style="background: #9f9f9f;" color="#ffffff">i <font style="background: #ababab;" color="#ffffff">l <font style="background: #b8b8b8;" color="#ffffff">v <font style="background: #c4c4c4;" color="#ffffff">e <font style="background: #b8b8b8;" color="#ffffff">r <font style="background: #ababab;"> <font size="-2">(T)@(C) 22:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Re: Smyrni/Izmir
Turks believe an Armenian group started the fire with orders from Greek army. Also I've seen photos of Izmir after the fire, there were burnt down mosques while churches were unharmed, those churches are still in good condition and active today. This kind of action might have 3 reasons, at least the ones I can think of, 1. In front of Western powers, to make Turks look like brutal agressors, disrespectful to the city 2. To cover up the escape of Greek civilians and army, to keep Turks busy 3. Izmir was a wealthy port city, maybe when Greeks understood they lost it forever, they didn't want to leave much behind.

Of course I leave an open door for the chance of Turkish army ordering the fire, as a demonstration of power and a retribution for collaborating with the invading Greek forces. But I find burning down a city which you just took back, kind of ridicilous.--Kagan the Barbarian 21:18, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Why would Turks burn down a city in front of the eyes of everyone, just so they can rebuild it later? They could demolish buildings and rebuild the city any time they pleased, the city was theirs. As you said fire is uncontrolable, so why start something that you can't control? There were Muslim houses and mosques in the city as well. Anyway, my reasons aren't less or more logical than yours, apperantly we'll never know the truth, so it is better to leave this subject open to question and not jump to conclusions like "Turks burnt it" or "Greeks burnt it".


 * Greeks weren't the only Christians in Izmir, there were Levantines as well and still are today. So churches are still active.--Kagan the Barbarian 07:01, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Catholic or Orthodox, what's the difference, they are both false ;)--Kagan the Barbarian 17:16, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Hectorian User Page
Hectoria... I edited some sentence structure on your user page - hope you do not mind - just moved commas away from hugging letters. So you are sickened by Bush too? Try this user box code in place of your current one. Noles1984 22:17, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!!
Wow, thank you for helping me out! Don't forget about the Cyprus dispute page btw. :) --Khoikhoi 00:32, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Now I can finally relax. --Khoikhoi 00:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah man, they say that we're not neutral because we don't like having propaganda pictures on articles, hmmm... --Khoikhoi 00:41, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I just added the missing word. I'm glad that you respect NPOV, you're right, you could just go around adding pictures of the Armenian Genocide, but you don't. Why can't they understand what neutrality means? --Khoikhoi 00:49, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I know! On the Adana page they're trying to delete a paragraph backed up by Britannica, and add another based on Turkish POV websites, such as "Tall Armenian Tale". --Khoikhoi 01:01, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * About the Abkhazia page, I'm not really sure. I'm not a bad writer, it's just that I'm pretty busy right now. Perhaps sometime in the future. :) --Khoikhoi 08:09, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Netherlands
Thanks, I'm glad you appreciate it. Fnorp 15:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, I now notice you're Greek. Perhaps the issue is comparable to Greeks preferring "Hellas" instead of "Greece", at least so I've heard. Fnorp 15:44, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Vlepo kala pernas me to Skopiano filo mas ;-) --Latinus 22:24, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Episis, min kanis epanafora afton pu esvise tus elines - katse na to xanaalaxi o allos ke na tus xekanume ke tus duo me mya epanafora ya na min pane hamenes... --Latinus 23:18, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Den xero - ego tha figo tora - tha to ftyaxo ego. Ti eyine me tin Rice? --Latinus 23:45, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Iparhi kana link? Epsaksa sto BBC ke de vrika tipota... --Latinus 23:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Here we go again....
Articles for deletion/Turkish Kurdistan - Bertilvidet 00:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Personal attacks
Regarding this edit and many others: this type of language is unnaccptable. Wikipedia has a strict policy of no personal attacks, and if you continue to talk to other users in such a disrespectful manner, you may be blocked from editing. I do understand that you were responding to someone else's comment, but that does not excuse you from the rule. If someone else is making a personal attack, report them to an administrator. Responding to other user's innapropriate actions with further innapropriate actions will not be tolerated. --InShaneee 02:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Names
He/she is trying to prove a point to me about the Greek and Armenian names in Turkish city articles. I'm trying not to piss him off. I think because these cities in Bulgaria have large Turkish populations it's ok. --Khoikhoi 03:53, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I personally don't think it's that big of a deal. It's not very harmful, just like having the Greek and Armenian names at Turkish cities. At least he's not changing the numbers of Turks in Bulgaria. :p --Khoikhoi 04:28, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Besides, in places like Kars there are hardly any Armenians left (there probably aren't any) and we have the Armenian name there for historical purposes. --Khoikhoi 04:29, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I like that idea. Which cities so far don't meet the criteria? I just removed the Albanian name from the Mersin article. What else? --Khoikhoi 04:38, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I think instead of adding names first we should remove the ones that need to be removed. So where should we start? --Khoikhoi 04:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Define logic - [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adana&diff=45662009&oldid=45614861deleting information about Armenians being killed by Turks, which results in edit warring, then a compromise to say nothing about who was killed on the page. After that, the user adds info about how Turks were killed by Armenians.] :) It's been a wonderful day, eh? --Khoikhoi 05:02, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the one for Tblisi is good because it's former name. That's what everyone used to call it. Sofia and Yerevan I'm not really sure. Feel free to remove them, I have to go now. Adios! --Khoikhoi 05:07, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * No problem. Sure I'll archive right now. :) --Khoikhoi 08:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, the page is now on my watchlist. --Khoikhoi 09:10, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Izmir
Hi, I didn't mean to give any lecture, sorry if I did that. How about the latest revision. I think it's neutral enough--Avmatso 06:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * We can't trust George Horton's words, that's my point. He is twisted and very well capable of twisting facts, exaggerating them or presenting hear-say information as facts. That's what I meant by the Nazi officer and Holocaust, it doesn't have to be a Nazi officer, it can be a Nazi sympathizer who had nothing to do with the crimes, we can't trust a symathizer's testimony. George Horton is a Christ obsessed loony. Anyway, Hector, I can't be bothered with this article right now and I am very displeased with its current version. The condition of Smyrna is even worse. I may rewrite Izmir when I have interest, I don't care about Smyrna and I am growing tired of Greeks crying "genocide!!!", "atrocity!!!" on every article, based on handpicked information, all these claims are based on questionable Western sources who are very well capable of taking sides in events between Muslims and Christians. Now these questionable sources are being put in front of as facts. Look at George Horton and decide for your self. It is ridicilous really.--Kagan the Barbarian 09:14, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * If you don't know for sure who started it, you don't have to start a blame game between Turks and Greeks. Here is Yahoo Travel's introduction to the city:

"İZMİR – ancient Smyrna – is home to nearly three million people. Mostly burned down in the Turkish-Greek war of 1922, İzmir has been built pretty much from scratch and is nowadays booming and cosmopolitan."

See, if you don't know who did it then you don't have to give any names, this is called neutrality. We can say it was burnt in this final process of the Greco-Turkish war.--Kagan the Barbarian 09:35, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * There are 3 chances for why the fire started: 1. Turks burnt it 2. Greeks, Armenians did 3. It was an accident. There is no 4th option, is there? And aren't all these 3 arguments valid for what happened in Izmir? If so why do we have to mention all 3 of them? Isn't that redundant? What we have to mention is that the city burnt in the process of Greco-Turkish war, this is all the information we have, rest is accusations.--Kagan the Barbarian 09:50, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Source
Ok, I'm sure you know the book and that its objectiveness is questioned, but I don't believe that it must be ignored, especially as we talk about someone with nothing to earn or lose http://www.hri.org/docs/Horton/HortonBook.htm#_WHERE_AND_WHEN

TRNC
Don't revert 193.201.130.139's edits before giving a reason on the talk page why they should be removed. What I saw he is giving relevant NPOV information with sources.--Kagan the Barbarian 13:42, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Κοίτα το ηλ. ταχ. σου :-) --Latinus 14:04, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Exeis gramma. Phgaine sto grammatokibwtio... <font style="background: #777;"> <font style="background: #888;" color="white">N <font style="background: #999;" color="white">i <font style="background: #aaa;" color="white">k <font style="background: #bbb;" color="white">o <font style="background: #ccc;" color="white">S <font style="background: #bbb;" color="white">il <font style="background: #aaa;" color="white">v <font style="background: #999;" color="white">e <font style="background: #888;" color="white">r <font style="background: #777"> <font size="-2">(T)@(C) 14:07, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Avmatso
Συγγνώμη για την καθυστέρηση. Είμαι Έλληνας, αυτόν τον καιρό ζω στην Καλιφόρνια, και λόγω της διαφοράς ώρας αναγκάζομαι να ξενυχτάω για να δίνω απαντήσεις σε... Ειλικρινά, σε ευχαριστώ για την υποστήριξη.--Avmatso 15:23, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Armenian genocide
have u considered in requesting semi-protection If I knew how, I would do it. Please led the way, and I will support Chaldean 17:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ya des to e-mail su. --Latinus 18:41, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

...ke si. --Latinus 18:49, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * To request protect go to Requests for page protection. --Khoikhoi 01:32, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, no problem. ;) --Khoikhoi 01:45, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Anna Russell
I'm sorry to see that you're stalking me. I hope you enjoy mathematical articles. For the record, I am not anti-Greek, I'm anti-nationalist. (If my laughter matters to you, please try not to be laughable.) In this case, Kagan and his exploding map of the Ottoman Empire was at least as silly as the rest of that conversation put together. And seriously: You will also have seen that I consider his crack about 1922 unspeakable. Septentrionalis 23:31, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

(And the reference, in case it was not clear, is: "I'm not making this up, you know.")

Nobody is neutral, that's why NPOV is policy. I am interested in accuracy; my other interests are, if anything, philhellene. I don't see how making dubious claims about Byzantium helps the Greek cause, however. (And if you're not stalking me, how do you know what I wrote?) Septentrionalis 23:54, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You have forgotten this edit, I suspect: . Of course I acknowledge the continuity of Greece; the story is simply more complicated than Miskin is willing to admit. Septentrionalis 00:38, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I didn't think there was anything wrong about Kagan's maps of the Ottoman Empire. It appears that pmanderson has an open record of pov-pushing in various different articles. And I didn't run into this by stalking you, I just happen to have that page on watch. Miskin 00:25, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

PS: What you call "dubious claims about Byzantium", I call "sourced information". And unfortunately, wikipedia accepts my definition over yours. Miskin 00:25, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * For which his only source is the Britannica, in one of its more rhetorical moments. I'm sure he does believe that is the complete story. Septentrionalis 00:38, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Britannica is what I can more easily access and the most neutral source I can think of. I have quoted from over 5 different Britannica articles already, which means over 5 different scholars (unless you're naive enough to believe that they're all written by the same person). Statements of this type ("in one of its more rhetorical moments") justify how I've been right on my judgement and activity. You couldn't care less about the sources, you're really desperate to pass your POV in this and in other articles. It's not gonna happen. Miskin 00:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!


Hey Hectorian, I'd really like thank you for taking the time to vote at my RfA. I withdrew due to certain controversies, but I appreciated your vote and hope to see you here in the future. Thanks again. --Khoikhoi 05:08, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Beware of your friends!
You should be more careful, Sir, before intervening into a discussion (about the Phaistos Disk) and deleting a sentence, just because your friend Latinus asked you to do it. As a Greek, are you so pleased to suppress any mention to the theory of an old scholar, who has shown that the History of Greece has to be pushed back of 1500 years or more ?.. Mr Latinus is a perfect ignoramus on the subject. He just follows the stream, not even understanding what he does. If you really want to be informed -in spite of the censuring efforts of Mr Latinus and his pack-, read the J.Faucounau's books in French : Les Proto-Ioniens or Les Origines grecques à l'Age de Bronze... You will be surprised to discover the lots of lies which have spread around, concerning these serious researches (They would be trolling, made by an incompetent scholar, etc.). Thank you, Sir for listening (User 80.90.57.154, 14:22, March 28,2006).


 * Why are you deleting instead of discussing, Mr Hectorian ? What are your motives to delete a concurrent theory to the Minoan origin of the Disk ? Is this your way to apply the NPOV rule ?.. Or are you just blindly following people who call trolls respectable scholars without a single reason, other than - maybe - some of their supporters are acting as trolls ? Why you don't make the effort to be informed, reading the original sources, Sir, instead of trusting hearsays based upon nothing but blatant lies ?


 * So afraid of this poster, Mr Hectorian ?... You should think twice before acting like a troll yourself, refusing any serious, scientific discussion... (User 80.90.57.154 18/31, March 28, 2006)


 * Hectoriane, min tu dinis simasia - aftos olus tus apili. Kati pseudo-epistimonikes theories prospathi na epivali sti singekrimeni selida ke oli pistevun oti to paratravaii. Ton eho idi karfosi ya to 3RR - perimene na tu valun frayi prin to xanaepanaferis i kalu kaku (min nomizun oti o kenuryos ine kaltsa su) zita apo kapyon alo na to kani :-) --Latinus 18:37, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Den ehi simasia - ton ehun idi fraksi. --Latinus 18:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Latinus' statements are nothing but lies. Mr Latinus, a nobody at the Toulouse University, has never been a specialist in the matter in which he wants to intervene. He has obviously never read the c. 40 J.Faucounau's books and papers. Saying that J.F.'s Proto-Ionian Theory is fringy is at the minimum a mistake, based upon some lies and hearsays he has probably read on Internet. This theory has been published in peer-reviewed journals and in scientific Collections. It has been reviewed by serious scholars, like Professor Paul Faure, and supported by some leading archeologist, like Prof. Christos Doumas. Of course, the ignoramus Latinus ignores all that ! How could he ? He has never made the effort to read a single J.F.'s book, would it be only Les Proto-Ioniens... What he wants is just to push the concurrent theory, that the Phaistos Disk would have a Minoan origin, and this in total disrespect of the NPOV rule. Please, Sir, get informed ! Don't trust a kook like Latinus who is turning the things the other way around, calling fringy a theory without any other motive than the fact that he doesn't know it ! (User 80.90.57.154, 10/55, March 29, 2006)

C'mon
You may not agree with the edit, but this was not "vandalism". Jkelly 01:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * No worries. Happy editing.  Jkelly 02:40, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

May I know why..
did you revert my edit? --Spartian 02:40, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, just saying that Cyprus lies in the Mediterranean Sea is not very informative. See Turkey, Russia and Panama for countries with similar problems. Continent is more of a gepgraphic term than a cultural or historic one. Think about it.. --Spartian 02:46, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I what respect can it be misleading, Hectorian? The article Transcontinental nation discusses countries like Cyprus and Armenia which though geographically lie in Asia, are European culturally. So, according to you Cyprus is not bicontinental. Then may I know in which continent Cyprus actually lies in? Now please don't say Cyprus doesn't lie in any continent. --Spartian 02:48, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Precisely, I think bicontinental is the perfect term in such a case. Even Turkey is a bicontinental country; so Turks should have no problems in saying that Cyprus is culturally a part of Europe. We have to mention in which continent Cyprus actually lies in. --Spartian 02:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not getting any angry Hectorian. Franky, I just got a bit too excited when you reverted my edit. BTW I love you username. I tried to get Spartan as my username but it was already taken. So had to settle down for Spartian which apparently makes little sense to me. Cheers --Spartian 03:04, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Fine with me --Spartian 03:05, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Italian people
Hi Hectorian. I see your point, but what I meant was that Byzantine administration in Italy kept using Latin much longer than in the centre, at Constinople. As for the Greek communities, more than reviving them I'd say that Byzantine rule had a conservative role, mantaining Greek where Greek was already present,while Latin towns (Venice, Ravenna, Bari, and, surprisingly, Naples) kept Latin. As for the Illyrians, yes, you're right, I was referring to the Messapians, as in Italy they are generally considered such, even if I know that there is some controversy on the subject. --Aldux 12:10, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

List of countries by Coast/Area ratio
Check if you like it :-) It's my FIRST completely new article! <font style="background: #777;"> <font style="background: #888;" color="white">N <font style="background: #999;" color="white">i <font style="background: #aaa;" color="white">k <font style="background: #bbb;" color="white">o <font style="background: #ccc;" color="white">S <font style="background: #bbb;" color="white">il <font style="background: #aaa;" color="white">v <font style="background: #999;" color="white">e <font style="background: #888;" color="white">r <font style="background: #777">  <font size="-2">(T)@(C) 15:01, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

What happened to your nanny? —Preceding unsigned comment added by -Inanna- (talk • contribs)

Battles
The reason I have added those POV remarks was becasue I believe there is serious POV issues with all the articles I tagged, they are often unabashedly written from the POV of the early muslims with not even a pretense of including the real historical events.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 13:27, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I know tell me about it, even the most neutral one (Battle of Tabouk) states that the 30,000 muslims faced 200,000 Romans (at this period I think we should call them Byzantine, but your Greek so you know that I'm sure), before I edited it I stated it as unequivical fact. I had to delete all of the text from the Battle of Khaybar.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 13:42, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately since I do not know much about these actual battles I would be hard pressed to write a more accurate summary, would you be willing to work on rewriting them with me?- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 13:58, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 14:08, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Seems good, except a couple of editors are trying to revert anything that doesn't follow the normal islamic narrative.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 01:22, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Grammaaaaaaa
Ante nte! Koita to to rhmadi! (to deutero pou sou 'steila isxyei). <font style="background: #777;"> <font style="background: #888;">N <font style="background: #999;">i <font style="background: #aaa;">k <font style="background: #bbb;">o <font style="background: #ccc;">S <font style="background: #bbb;">il <font style="background: #aaa;">v <font style="background: #999;">e <font style="background: #888;">r <font style="background: #777">  <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 16:32, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Kala, afou den exeis kampanaki 8a sto lew kiolas. Eyxaristw kai gia ta credits. Nomizw omws oti ;exoume douleia kai sta tria ar8ra pou tous aforoun pali... <font style="background: #777;"> <font style="background: #888;">N <font style="background: #999;">i <font style="background: #aaa;">k <font style="background: #bbb;">o <font style="background: #ccc;">S <font style="background: #bbb;">il <font style="background: #aaa;">v <font style="background: #999;">e <font style="background: #888;">r <font style="background: #777">   <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 18:24, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Den hr8e akoma. Na ypo8esw oti einai toso gemato me "a" pou perase to orio? 8a m'afhseis na paw sto Baraonda na faw, sabbato brady prwi (meta ta mesanyxta!), san an8rwpos? <font style="background: #777;"> <font style="background: #888;">N <font style="background: #999;">i <font style="background: #aaa;">k <font style="background: #bbb;">o <font style="background: #ccc;">S <font style="background: #bbb;">il <font style="background: #aaa;">v <font style="background: #999;">e <font style="background: #888;">r <font style="background: #777">   <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 18:58, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Hr8e! (ligo mikrotero apo oti perimena!) Me esteiles pali... (to Me htan kai salonikiotiko!) <font style="background: #777;"> <font style="background: #888;">N <font style="background: #999;">i <font style="background: #aaa;">k <font style="background: #bbb;">o <font style="background: #ccc;">S <font style="background: #bbb;">il <font style="background: #aaa;">v <font style="background: #999;">e <font style="background: #888;">r <font style="background: #777">   <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 19:54, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * To 3erw bre, alliws den 8a eleges now living in... LMTO!!! <font style="background: #777;"> <font style="background: #888;">N <font style="background: #999;">i <font style="background: #aaa;">k <font style="background: #bbb;">o <font style="background: #ccc;">S <font style="background: #bbb;">il <font style="background: #aaa;">v <font style="background: #999;">e <font style="background: #888;">r <font style="background: #777">   <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 20:04, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Your politics template
You seem like a reasonable and rational editor, but i was just curious why you sport a "This user supports the independence of Kurdistan" template. Templates like these cause a lot of grief on Wikipedia, many Turks will form prejudices about you based on those templates, and it will not help in any future contributions to Turkish related articles. It may as well read "This user supports the separation of Turkey". I hope you can see where i'm coming from. --A.Garnet 16:56, 31 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Min kanis anastrofi - perimene na ton karfoso. --Latinus 21:15, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I guess there were 700,000 greeks in australia but same source says 375,000 and you have no information about anything, just doing nationalistic propaganda!


 * Because I am enjoying this, and have nothing better to do. :) --Khoikhoi 00:21, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Looks like she hasn't replied yet... --Khoikhoi 00:23, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

That's none of your affair what we are talking about.Mind your own business...Inanna 00:24, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

I will be a politician and it needs history too...

You know...
...you still have one more revert left on Turkish people. --Khoikhoi 02:59, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, that sounds like a good idea. --Khoikhoi 03:05, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

English orthography
centre instead of center, organisation instead of organization, satirise instead of satirize, and honour instead of honor are not orthographical mistakes. This is British English (the other orthography is American English), and is the reccomended English orthography in European Union (check the European Union style guide, you can find it as a PDF on europa.eu.int). If you support the European Union you must also support British English, because United Kingdom is a member of the union. Americans have corrupted the English language, please do not help them anymore; use British English to signify your support for EU. Write organisation, center, honour, satirise, etc!


 * i made the corrections by just checking the articles Civilization and Center here in wikipedia. if these articles are like that, this is how the respective words should be written, in order the readers to be able to find the appropriate information if needed. i really have no problem with that...if these articles change, i'll be among the first to change the spelling is other wiki articles. --Hectorian 18:02, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Your addition to Arvanites
Hi, re. your biographical addition to Arvanites: No offense, but doesn't that make it sound as if "he was an Arvanite only for a brief period of time"? :-) - I think we can safely leave those biographical details to the article about the person anyway. He was a prime minister, is all we need to know in this article. Lukas (T. 17:59, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, good, I'll remove it then. --Lukas (T. 18:15, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Do not delete my comments! That's none of your affair as i said 100 times!

Hmm, den ksero, pantos o NikoSilver ta katafere. Tha sou steilo ego ena dokimastiko. Miskin 20:44, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Nai ta katafera. Des kai to diko sou twra!   N i k o S il v e r    <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 21:44, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Kai 3anades to amesws se parakalw.   N i k o S il v e r    <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 21:55, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Psit, sou exo kala nea. Perna mia bolta apo ti selida tis legamenis... Ti sou elega? Tipota anisyxitiko. AOBTD, kai menei mono allos enas. Miskin 00:48, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Perna ligo kai apo tou legamenou na deis... Palaiose ki autos. :) Poso pire? Dyo meres, oxi ki asxima. Miskin 13:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

adana
Hi Hectorian, since I am still expanding Adana, I dont have enough time to check its grammer. If you have time to correct my grammatical mistakes, could you do it? Cheers--TuzsuzDeliBekir 21:59, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

I didn't find any Turkish sources about population. But making it up-date is nice. Thanks. Do you want me to change anything else ? --TuzsuzDeliBekir 22:14, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Take it easy, hector. Look at the page now. --TuzsuzDeliBekir 09:41, 2 April 2006 (UTC)


 * hheheheheh, I definetely understand what you meant by shocked after all of your work. I felt the same at the morning when I firstly saw the page. Anyway, let me thanks for your help, and I think I will need your help, because the page still needs to be expanded.--TuzsuzDeliBekir 09:49, 2 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Of course, I want to know more about zeimbekiko. I thought that it was the same with zeybek. In Asia, it is called Bembek in Kasgarlı Mammut, Divan-ı Lugat Turk. I will be waiting a link that shows some figures of zeimbekiko. By the way, I am still trying to learn Zeybek :)), But I am losing all of my hope. :(.--TuzsuzDeliBekir 10:02, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Adieu
file kai eyxaristw gia thn yposthri3h. Otan teleivsv me to master moy, isws na epekteinv to arthro gia th Spanakopita.--Avmatso 23:24, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia survey
Hi. I'm doing a survey of Wikipedia editors as part of a class research project. It's quick, anonymous, and the data will be made available to the Wikipedia community later this month. Would you like to take part? More info here. Thanks! Nonplus 01:19, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

RE: Macedonia
I can ask the same question of you. Who are you again? I frequently make edits to this and other articles (e.g., standardising names atop the infobox) and have been for some time. While I do not necessarily disagree with recent edits made (e.g., emboldening FYROM upfront), they have been made under veil of consensus and amid insinuations from editors of equilibrating "due weight" into the topic. Rubbish. There is none now and, given the options and combative editing, I maintain the status quo is sufficient. Moreover, frankly, self-identified editors in and outside the republic are demonstrably biased regarding this issue. And, beyond this, I needn't explain my actions further. Let me know if you've questions. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 17:36, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


 * As noted, it's not a clear-cut issue. I don't necessarily disagree with recent edits but my resistance is routed in the fact that the current version is disagreeable to other editors; peruse the talk pages for more.  The country is more than what is recognised by the UN.  Ethnic Greeks assert this, ethnic Macedonians assert that ... yielding wasted time and a cluttered edit history.  And for what?  Macedonia has adopted a name that, while recognised internationally and otherwise by the UN, was only adopted to appease a neighbour and is increasingly deprecated.  For weeks, the prior status quo rendition in Wp, duly weighted, was satisfactory and no longer is to some because of wilful editing arguably routed in bias.  This impolitic doesn't belong in Wp.


 * And I'm unsure what your "twice" reference means, and frankly I don't care, but all of my edits have been accompanied by summaries and detailed commentary, so please refrain from lecturing me on editing. As for your other opinions of mine: pot, meet kettle; if incivilly made, they will hereafter be accorded the attention that they deserve. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 18:09, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Not unstable, but it is a difficult issue to broach for reasons already stated; for that, I do not apologise.  I'll say again: while I do not necessarily disagree with including FYROM upfront and would not have edited that in otherwise given recent rumblings (read the archives closely), I know full-well that the recent version – advocated primarily by a particular clutch of editors – is provocative to another clutch of editors and, thus, arguably biased.


 * I maintain that the prior agreeable status quo – a modus vivendi – is sufficient and preferred: it duly treats the naming issue precisely because of the various viewpoints; it is also supported partially by renditions indicated in compendiums on the talk page.  Note that the status quo already notes the name in the form of a superscript note in the lead to the dedicated article section below (which makes the article comprehensive); the topic is further detailed in another related (the foreign relations) article.  There was some semblance of order with the status quo version: there is none of that nor consensus with the recent version ... and there likely won't be without some sort of decisive action like a vote or disengagement of said editors from the debate.  And I'm unsure how much clearer I can be regarding this.  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 19:39, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


 * In late January, before your arrival, discussion among users culminated in the status quo version, which has generally held – in full view of everyone – for more than two months; recent arguments have revealed nothing new. Please peruse talk pages, as recommended atop it, before promulgating ignorance as a defence for recent positioning.


 * Moreover, you have not convinced me that the status quo is more or less impartial than the current version, particularly given the amount of treatment in what is supposed to be an overview article nor based on citations of renditions that treat FYROM in a similar matter ... or not at all. I see little reason to obviate a previously agreeable version for one that clearly is not.


 * And while apparently contradictory, you've failed acknowledge or overlooked my collateral commentary on the talk page where I explained my reasons for re-adding the text and qualified my edits. Frankly, I'm unsure anything more will be served through added discussion herein.  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 20:49, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello. Given recent – and arguably intractable – discussions and actions, I've devised a poll to resolve the RoM issue. Please review and weigh in; once done, I will post on the RoM talk page and disseminate. Thanks for your co-operation. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 22:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks; I've referred to the prior version as the status quo version (w/'note') because it was the stable version for some time (without elaborating further) before this recent sleigh ride began. Moreover, the currently frozen article header indicates that it isn't an endorsement of the current version which precipitated recent instability.  Alternatively, I could refer to them as Brief version/Summative version and Extended version, both of which are irrespective of their currency, or similar.  Thoughts?  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 23:31, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Well the 'prior' version (which to me, in this context, implies mild archaism) was an agreeable version; I can't comment on whether Greek editors were involved (other than myself) and its status – and the article's resulting stability – doesn't depend on that. In any event ...


 * I have since retitled them Brief version (with note) and Extended version (with spellout and abbreviation). I trust this is sufficient.  Added versions can be titled appropriately: Hybrid version #1, etc.


 * I believe, given your and my input, we should be able to dually cover off (and have) on germane points from both sides of the fence without succumbing to analysis-paralysis. And for an impartial perspective and for propriety, I've requested feedback from a few editors not even involved in this issue but who regularly contribute to other country articles in Wp.   There you go!  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 00:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks; I've requested feedback from two other editors with whom I'm familiar; I've yet to hear back from them and don't intend on soliciting more. I'm unsure about the utility of soliciting even more feedback from third parties, particularly if we've both covered all the bases, but feel free to do so from no more than two uninvolved editors.  I want to get this thing underway fairly soon and resolve it forthwith: discussions on the RoM talk page are getting rather circuitous.  Aldux has provided some feedback, noted; A. and other editors can add options and provide feedback once the poll commences.


 * As well, I noted your changes; they are fine. Note that the extended version notes FYROM as a "title" (not name) and there is some validity to that argument (i.e., that they differ): for instance, take a glance at Canada's name and its talk page/archives for a perspective on what these "appellations" mean and how contentious they can be. :)  Thanks again! E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 00:52, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Any added feedback? The natives are getting restless; if additional feedback is not forthcoming shortly (some of which I've garnered), I will post the poll shortly. Thanks. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 18:23, 5 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Based on the above, I'm placing the poll. I look forward to garnering added feedback forthwith. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 00:51, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks; I was getting angsty. Anyhow, the poll should (hopefully) be decisive enough without discussions further degenerating.  And no matter what option is selected, the current state cannot continue and a degree of divisiveness will prevail no matter what is done.  Thanks for your input! E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 01:18, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Of course ... I've added the notice to some 20 talk pages of diverse constituencies already; cutting, copying, and pasting is alot of work, though. I may resume tomorrow; please feel free to add the notice to talk pages as you see fit. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 03:16, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

3RR
Penia texnas katergazetai... Ma8ainw kai Giapwnezika opws eimai twra egw... 8a sou steilw gramma. Diabase kai kanto prin koimh8eis pleeeeease. 00:26, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * To eides to gramma?   N i k o S il v e r    <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 00:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Sou esteila 2 grammata. To 2o einai pio plhres.   N i k o S il v e r    <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 01:07, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks Hectorian. H plaka einai oti mou ekane warning gia th selida ths Elladas, epeidh ekana revert ekei! Eytyxws twra einai ok h selida. --Avg 02:00, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Oxi th selida Greece ennow. Kai ekei ekanan synexeia revert oi alloi ekei pou leei panw panw me poies xwres synoreyoume. Kai oxi den eimai gayros, panathinaikos eimai an kai prospathw na kanw npov contribs edw, esy na ypothesw paoki? --Avg 02:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok dikos mas kai sy :) Thanks gia ta kala logia. Sygxarhthria kai se sena giati blepw kaneis watch dekades articles.--Avg 02:31, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Ma de mporw re gamwto erxetai enas asxetos apo to pouthena kai bazei tampeles epeidh exei aera mesa sto kefali tou. Akou ethnikisths...makria apo mas:-) --Avg 22:41, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Way to go!
Hey, good job. :) Did you get it from here? --Khoikhoi 01:06, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Heheh, that's quite a long way off. :p --Khoikhoi 01:18, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Bueno job, señor. --Khoikhoi 01:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Kai sy exeis apanthsh.   N i k o S il v e r    <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 16:25, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Sygxarhthria gi ayto pou diabasa! 8a h8ela na mou steileis ki alles leptomereies...   N i k o S il v e r    <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 16:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, I made a note on the page. Is Saronikos an island as well and is it inhabited? --Khoikhoi 01:10, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Considering the years passed ding ancient Greek, I should have recognized it; but it's quite a lot of time I don't translate Greek, so I didn't think of the most obvious thing. Now I've found it: καταφιλεω, baciare teneramente (i.e. to kiss passionately, as you had said). Thanks, and ciao! --Aldux 20:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

RE: Template:Europe
The wikification of the term is sufficient: Republic of Ireland/Ireland (the island) is a similar example of a territory entitled differently. There are understandably reasons to opine about titular renditons elsewhere in Wp, but little reason to collude a template with extraneous typography. Unless compelled otherwise, I shall be restoring the prior rendition. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 01:52, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, that's wilful blindness: Ireland is equally ambiguous regarding the political entity – past or present – or the island ... which are not co-terminous. And there are many instances when China (PRC), which may also mean the overarching entity/domain (China), Republic of China (Taiwan), etc. are rendered just as simply.  Effective wikifying of the term, as with Macedonia (a country in Europe, as per the template) is sufficient; I defer to prior statements. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 02:07, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Greek names
Hi Hectorian. I don't think there's anything wrong in adding the Greek name, on the contrary I believe it should be added since that is how their names were originally; personally, especially when creating new biog. articles, I've added the Greek name. I only object to the number, as ancient kings didn't call themselves Philip I, Philip II, Philip III, but only Philip, with a title that often helps to distinguish them (Megas, Epiphanes, Philopator, etc.).--Aldux 10:21, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I know what you mean, and yes, to my frustration my keyboard doesn't let me do them, so I simply type the Greek letters without the spiritus asper or spiritus lenis or the accents. --Aldux 12:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

1922 İzmir/Smyrna
I do believe that we need a separate article (and separate discussions) on the fire as well. See Great Fire of London. Regards. --Cretanforever 11:15, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I think we are at the same wavelength Hectorian. Inside İzmir article, reference should of course be made to the controversial events of 1922. I had in mind a phrase like this, (exact terminology can be decided upon later)

"İzmir was occupied by the Greek army as of 15 May 1919 until its retrieval by the Turkish army in 9 September 1922. The Greco-Turkish War of 1919-1922, and in its final days, the 1922 Great Fire of Smyrna*, the lynching of Metropolitan of Ephesus** (collaborator for the Turkish side)***, Chrysostomos Kalafatis, and the 1923 agreement for the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations have left marking traces in the psyches of the two nations." (*) that seems to be the established denomination in English, we can look it up later. (**) Ephesus or Smyrna? One source I had read said Ephesus, I do not have the time to look it up now. (***) We can omit that in the main article on İzmir if it will hurt sensitivities. Or put some adjective before the "lynching", like "terrible" or "monstrous", It's up to be decided.

Of course, we can have other sister articles as well. İdeas would abound. Regards. --Cretanforever 12:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

"İzmir was occupied by the Greek army as of 15 May 1919 until it was taken over for the Turks by the re-constituted Turkish army in 9 September 1922. The Greco-Turkish War of 1919-1922, and in its final days, the controversial events specifically involving the city of İzmir; i.e. the 1922 Great Fire of Smyrna and the lynching of Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Smyrna&Ephesus; and then the 1923 agreement for the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations have left marking traces in the psyches of the two nations."

I will put it as worded like this. I am sorry for the term "occupied" but I will stick to it. It has to do with the duration and the posterity, as well as the basis. Never mention the Treaty of Sevres to Turks! :) It is parallel to bringing the Munich Agreement as an argument toward the Czechs (I am not drawing an analogy between Hitler and Venizelos here). The way I see it, that's another article to put in context in the wikipedia. As for the Metropolitan Chrysostomos, I have put it as you read above for the moment. My Turkish source says Ephesus (and Ephesus only), but there might be some POV involved in omitting his Smyrna title.

I have knowledge of Greek-rooted international terminology, but that's all. My family is Cretan Turkish. In Turkey's context, Giritli (Cretan) has special connotations regarding the accent, the customs, the outlook towards life etc. The term actually covers (in Turkish) those Turks who migrated from other Aegean islands as well. So someone's grandfather might have come from Kos or Rhodes, but he could still be called Giritli in Turkey.

Regards, --Cretanforever 14:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Thx. I received your message. I will post my paragraph on the User:Michalis Famelis/Greek and Turkish wikipedians board of cooperation and we can discuss about it there. İzmir happens to be my city (just like Thessaloniki is yours), and I would like to have the article on it put within a determined body to avoid it becoming a plankboard monopolized for any firstcomer's whims. --Cretanforever 21:27, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello Hectorian, I received your message and put a (I hope) final shape in the 1922 period in the İzmir page. As you will see, I opened a link (a suggestion really) for the Historical Demographics of İzmir/Smirni. My thinking is that it would be better to associate the Greek Smirni with hundreds of years life and accomplishment through that article, rather than with the fire. --Cretanforever 03:33, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

numbers
Oxi, katalaba pos theleis stoixia gia tous arithmous, einai logiko. Nomizo pos brika merika, kita sto Greek in Great Britain. Ekana oit borousa dioti pragmati me endiaferei na matho - kata kapoi tropo eimai istorikos tou ellinismou stin Bretania. Politis 17:20, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Re sy den apeuthinomoun se sena otan elega auta, s'emena kai se auton apeuthinomoun (peri symbibasmous klp). Ok, opos nomizeis, se afino na to analabeis, ego tha kano ta reverts. Me exei thimosei omos epeidi blepeis poso diprosopos einai. Na anaferoume tis sfages tous apla prospathoume, oxi n'allaksoume to thema tou arthrou. Miskin 19:07, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Republic of Macedonia
Hey man, sorry if I offended you, just I really can't stand nationalists and nationalism. I quite like Greece actually, I've been there a couple of times to visit friends, once to Athens and once to Didimoteixo to visit a guy who was doing his military service &mdash; spent some time drinking frappé and eating tiropita in Thessaloniki while waiting for a train actually. I'm not favouring the Macedonian nationalists, I think their position is crazy too &mdash; especially with regard to the language issue &mdash; but then the Bulgarian position is just as retarded, just I think that the whole naming dispute thing is really puerile. I'm not saying that the politics of my country is any better, I think most politics is really fucking stupid &mdash; especially nationalist politics. Anti-immigration and the like...

So, to summarise... It's definately not you, its this nationalist clusterfuck naming dispute that I object to. - FrancisTyers 22:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I totally agree, anyone who says that Alexander the Great wasn't a Greek is probably a Macedonian nationalist idiot. Yeah I'm from the UK. :) Seriously, I think this nonsense about the name just detracts from the serious historical refutations that need to be done. The slavs weren't even around until the 6th or 7th century. - FrancisTyers 23:03, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Σχετικά με το παραπάνω, πρέπει να δεις αυτό και αυτό και να πράξεις αναλόγως. Thanks. --Enas Filos 21:50, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Kingdom of Pontus
Hi Hectorian :-) You must understand that Pontus did not exist among ancient historians till the creation of the Pontian kingdom by Mithridates I. Then Pontus was simply considered a section of the region of Cappadocia, under whose administration it fell. The northern part of Cappadocia was called Cappadocia Pontica, from which Pontus. While there were a few Greek colonies on the Pontian coast (Trebizond, Sinop) these staunchly resisted the kings of Pontus; Sinop fell only in 183 BC, Trebizond with Mithridates VI. Everything that is known of hellenistic Pontus (pretty little) confirms that it was a semi-barbarian kingdom, where no coins were minted at first, and after (till Mithridates VI) very few. It was far more behind than Bithynia, where hellenization started much earlier and in progressed a much stronger way. As for Pontus, hellenization started to gain strength with the conquest of Sinop (183 BC) and especially Mithridates VI (120 BC). This is what I gained from my sources. Ciao!--Aldux 22:28, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Regardless, Pontus was in Archaic times a major site of Ionian colonisation, which didn't have a political unity until Hellenistic times. Mithridates who slayed some 80,000 Romans in Asia Minor, did pose as the benefactor of Hellenism and allied him self with the Greek cities of Asia Minor and central Greece. I don't know how can such a Kingdom be regarded as "Hellenized" or semi-barbaric. Miskin 19:27, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Persians
Thanks for your message. I didn't add it, but I agree that it is probably unnecessary (I've removed - I hadn't noticed your edit). "Sub-groups" in this instance was probably referring to Persian "sub-groups" such as the Gilak and Mazandarani, Persians of Khuzestan, etc. who differ ethnically and linguistically from Persians from the "heartland provinces" (like Fars, Isfahan, Tehran). SouthernComfort 12:21, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Macedonian
Some guy is vandalising my changes on the disambiguation page of Macedonian. It's crazy how chauvinistic thiese people are. Please have a look from time to time, because I am going to break the 3RR soon --Komitata 23:02, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


 * kai exeis kai gramma...   N i k o S il v e r    <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 18:50, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Nomizo pos einai kairos na eisigitheis tin dimiourgia enos arthrou pou tha onomazetai "ellinomakedones". Exo brei kapoies piges idi, alla esy os Elladitis kai Thessalonikios tha mporeis na breis poly perissoteres. Etsi tha lythoun polla apo ta problimata mas. Mou fainetai pos prepei na kanoume tin parousia mas pio aisthiti giati xanoume edafos. Miskin 19:31, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Exeis epeigon gramma.  N i k o S il v e r   <font size="-2">(T) @ (C) 16:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Ahhh!
I didn't see that part! Feel free to revert, I understand now. &mdash;Khoikhoi 00:26, 27 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Naw man! I think a more neutral sentence would be something like, "the PKK mostly attacked government forces, but some civilians as well". But I guess it would just be a good idea to leave it out. &mdash;Khoikhoi 00:37, 27 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah. BTW, it looks like it's time to archive you talk page. &mdash;Khoikhoi 00:53, 27 April 2006 (UTC)