User talk:Hesperian/Archive 12


 * The following text is preserved as an archive of discussions at User talk:Hesperian. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on User talk:Hesperian. No further edits should be made to this page.

Javanese calendar
Hi, it got a DYK and a red link has just tagged it - I'd apprecciate if a third party could have a quick squizz- as I am tempted to.....maybe it is justified, I'd appreciate a quick look or comment if possible - someone else did most of the art - but... SatuSuro 06:05, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Perth Photo Wish List
Hi I created this to keep me occupied instead of just reading books while I wait please add anything you want to the list. I've already added your two requests from today thats what gave me the idea. Gnangarra 13:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Western australian wikiproject
I am back online now and willing("the gumption") to start the above but am new to WP. Is there a template to start such a thing? Regards Fred.e 16:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. Got guide also. Thanks for assist. Will look in other countries and states for similar projects.  Fred.e 08:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the Heads up, Another Project.. Ok im in. Ghostieguide 00:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

A favour
Hi, I saw you blocked my page and extended my ban. Just want you to post this on my talk page if you please could as well as my explanation, you will see what I mean on my user:page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rugby 6666 (talk • contribs).

Wikibreak
I'm taking some time off from WP for a while. Hope you have a pleasant festive season and I'll talk to you soon. &mdash;Moondyne 14:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:WA Userbox
I am currently inviting users to use it. I do prefer the one I have created, however- I think it is more stylish and functional than the other one. I will continue to invite people to use mine- you are free to invite people to use yours. Cheers-- M  W  Johnson  23:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll do it now.-- M  W  Johnson  23:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Bloody hell and damnation
I sure hope not too many admins disappear for r and r over the next week or so, the red link terrors will have a field day! (I had come across wattles modifications to the pakhurst art... and with two down...) SatuSuro 00:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * And for diligence for the alpha order of participants in the wa project you need a christmas light barnstar if it exists! SatuSuro 00:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reassurance, enjoy the season anyways! SatuSuro 00:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

AWOL
There's definately something wrong here. A lot of my edits aren't appearing. They're visible in page histories though. it's either caching to the extreme, or a call to arms for some devs I think :) -- Longhair\talk 02:14, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Something is definately broken. My watchlist stops at 11.52am (now 1.28pm). -- Longhair\talk 02:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Replying here, as I don't seem to be able to edit Longhair's talk page without wiping mine and SatuSuro's previous comments. Yes, my watchlist is dead too. I'm seeing up-to-date pages with outdated histories, and out-dated pages with up-to-date histories. I've never seen Wikipedia so glitchy. Hesperian 02:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Fixed now... -- Longhair\talk 02:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That's what I said a minute ago, and then it went dodgy again. Hesperian 02:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well some good things come from wiki-downtime. I got to plant 20 or more Impatiens at the back door ;) Long overdue. -- Longhair\talk 02:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If its any help my watchlist went werid about an hour or so ago and seemed to lose an hour and then it came back SatuSuro 02:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It's still happening for me. Dodgy as. I'm outta here. Hesperian 02:43, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Wrong one
Could you please eliminate without prejucide - Kenneth Ivo Brownley Langwell Mackenzie‎ - I got tired of seeing the red links to this guy - and then realised that Kenneth (Seaforth) Mackenzie is more appropriate. Thanks if you can! SatuSuro 03:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC) Thank you! Trust youre keeping cool! SatuSuro 03:53, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Have watched a few wickets go in the last day or so in quick glimpses on the tube - its good to see they gots the crowds! SatuSuro 03:58, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Cool
No worries - thanks for the guidance :) Will keep in mind in tagging future ones. Orderinchaos78 11:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Re your contribs - hope you have a bot! :) SatuSuro 12:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * We gotta getta bot genius for Wa and maritime me thinks SatuSuro 12:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

wikEd - nonWP qu.
WP:WA is going well. Great work! I saw you mention fire fox. I just downloaded it and wikEd but it seems to take a while to load pages. Should I persist with it?

Sorry. I forgot to sign. Ta for reply re firefox. It is a shade slower and similar to Safari, the mac browser. IE has always been a slug.

wikEd is loaded only in edit page but you are right that was what the problem was. Developers claim to be aiming for Beta version(!) but good features are a preview which opens in frame at bottom of page without labouring servers and one-wikify words. It is much faster and easier once your in edit mode and can be clicked on/off for quick edits or problems. High efficiency on longer edits eg. formatting at cursor or selection, oneclick tables. And you elect to have edit summary ad which I did to promote good idea, for a while. Will let you know when it is stable. Do you use Wiki style toolbar currently (n/a for my firefox v.2.0)? Fred.e 10:19, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Downloaded greasemonkey, AWB not avail. for OSX. Will read up on bookmarklets etc and ask you a sensible question or swipe your 'rollies' later. Thanks for mentoring ... Fred.e 11:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I will get over it :) Fred.e

close but no art
Hava looka at da art called sunset coast - I think I need to refrain from biting the newcomer, good intention but not a wikipedia art - watcha think? I've the welcome in its talk page, but. SatuSuro 00:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC) Nah I'm off myself - catch up later SatuSuro 00:18, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

European exploration of Australia
On this page it states - Cook's expedition carried botanist Joseph Banks, for whom a great many Australian geographical features and at least one native plant are named.

I figured you are the one to know whether Banks has more than one plant named after him. While the statement leaves the room for more than one, how many are there, and can we be a little more exact. I thought I read there was more than that somewhere? Ignore this if it is only one. Cheers. SauliH 06:17, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Gotcha. Thanks. SauliH 06:34, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Epica
Submission of sequences to the NCBI is usually necessary if you want to publish anything about them, so a link to genbank would be most appropriate, but I'm not sure it'd be useful for the reader at all. I could try and get a leaf scan/photograph it if I can find it at the ANBG, did you happen to notice what section its growing in when researching the cultivation? --Peta 00:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Can't help with the herbarium info, sorry. I'll venture out to the gardens later this week - it's unseasonably chilly and overcast today. --Peta 00:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Sigh
Just trying to guide the newbie and you reverted... sigh. my comments on orderinchaos talk might give you the sense of where I am with this stuff. SatuSuro 06:55, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Never apologise. After yesterday (two tasmanians seeming to be running two categories - I was so slow - one was running a new info box - I put it to poor grnang - and I had overreaccted - then watching a bun-fight on orangutan and trying to mediate at a distance) - and then noticing so many new red link edits today - I think the tangled un-put up christmas lights are calling me... :(  - or the neglected maritime project - one of the two... anyways - trust youre keeping cool in post cricket hiatus ...SatuSuro 07:04, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The thing is with something like that - is the change an internal chemical chain of events - bit like exposure to air and oxidation - or is it two separated processes? if it was two processes occuring I'd be intrigued as to what was going on.... SatuSuro 07:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I've re4ad the art - no need to repond to my question - pity the art wasnt a youngen - it would have been a brilliant DYK item! SatuSuro 07:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Excellent - it reads well! SatuSuro 12:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * You can try DYK as its just been expanded from a stub Gnangarra 12:09, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah go on do it! SatuSuro 12:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Nah, DYK's not my thing; you guys can have a crack at it if you want. Hesperian 12:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, I'd advise against it, as the article is currently dreadful. If I stick to it (and I will) I reckon it will be pretty good by Monday. Hesperian 12:21, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

todays images
Thanks for the id last night, today I near tranby house(article worthy?) took 60+ pictures of building and contents including a map of early swan colony land distribution. The biggest disappointment was the caretaker when she said there was only every a single family of 8-10 aboriginals in what is now Perth metro area. Anyhow its still worth the visit if you get time. Gnangarra 09:17, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Abso-bloody-lutely amazing. The other day put Tranby House on your list, then changed my mind and didn't save the edit. Definitely article worthy.
 * Yeah, Moondyne and I had a chat about that. The official record claims there was around 70 Aboriginals west of the Darling Range - about half Mooro and half Beeloo - citing some sort of census in 1837, although we have no idea where or how they got their figures and someone who lived at Matilda Bay contemporaneously claimed that 40 gathered in that location alone, and other comments by John Butler and the Hamersley family suggest several hundred in the coastal plain north of the Swan. Weird stuff. Orderinchaos78 09:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The 1837 census was compiled by Francis Armstrong. According to Green's Broken Spears, Armstrong recorded 28 Mooro people. From a quick flick through, I haven't seen a figure for the Beeloo or Beeliar people. When I wrote Yagan, I wrote: "Yagan belonged to a tribe of around 60 people whose name, according to Robert Lyon, was Beeliar", citing Bourke's On The Swan, which I don't own.
 * We need to remember, though, that 1837 was pretty late in terms of settler-Aboriginal conflict; it was after the Battle of Pinjarra, after the death of Yagan, after the Reuben Beecham incident... and eight years is plenty of time for a people to be decimated by tuberculosis and smallpox.
 * Hesperian 10:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Commonist is currently working in the background(kids are enjoy the network lag) 30 images from tranby will be in the tranby cat on commons in about an hour. That map I also took 6 sectionalised images just incase information wasnt readiable, might try joining to make a panaroma. also photo a plaque that details the land grants on the penninsular in maylands. will create text of that and load to user subpage for background info on the article.According to same caretaker Tranby records dont mention any interaction with aboriginals during the first 30 years, this was the third house on the penninsula the family built after previous places where flooded, between 2nd and 3rd the built a place at York. They also claim to have produced the first successful wheat crop in 1830, and exported wines to London and Paris during the 1870's and won some kind of award in 1876 for them, but thats from the caretaker/guide I've made up enough tales while driving TC to very cautious about these claims... Gnangarra 11:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think hes having a senior moment -Gn that is - his talk page has dissapeared!  or he might be archiving? SatuSuro 12:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Jackson
Sorry I wasn't around earlier to deal with this - I've got a lot going on offline at the moment. Is there a need to block the guy, or is the matter dealt with for now? Rebecca 09:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

banksia FAC
Rather busy at the moment; I'll try. Tony 13:13, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you.
Thank you for dealing with the IP that left a threat on my talk page. Because the user appears from the whole 66.93.251.* range, I expect more. His previously disappointing behavior has been getting worse. JonHarder talk 14:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Sleep
What's that? Boy have I some problems for you - beware or I'll load my 1 am inponderables on ya! For a start orangutan - a 4rr aggressive (if you see my humour spot cited on gnangs talk page we have a few different species to deal with today) has returned after causing grief and getting a sarah warning - then 124.187.150.76 just vandalised gnangs user page - he needs something - then there's the americans who know nothing about the murchison ganging up on a well intentioned prod user... sigh, that's the start want any more? SatuSuro 00:04, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Seriously if you are around for a few minutes - I would be very interested from an outsider about the intransigence of the o-a user. (looking at the hist shows up) SatuSuro 00:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your considered response. The issue that Merbabu and Michael Johnson take is that there shouldnt ( I have been half on the way to suggesting a separate article)  be such a section and they react as such.  Sarah is concerned by the behaviour of the intransigent, and for that alone is cause for concern.  I was thinking of doing a vote thingy on the talk page - but that might simply aggravate.  I am not prepared to take the intrnasigent to task further as I believe outiders should.  I can see your point - but I am not sure that at this stage there'd be acceptance of that stance.  I'll sit and watch for a day or two and try to get back some sleep. :(   Thanks again for your time on the subject! SatuSuro 00:40, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh dear, this is what happens when I don't go to sleep after working all night! I was joking, Satu. I was talking about Gnang when I said to take him to task! Sorry about that, I didn't realise you were asking me a serious question. Sarah Ewart 01:03, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * More misunderstandings than could be put under the bar at widgiemooltha on a hot sunny afternoon - all my fault - my apologies I will email all concerned SatuSuro 02:33, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Regrettable usernames
I assumed good faith all round. Note at Sats. Was pretty sure you left trail cold anyway. Getting broadband today, phew. All the best Fred.e 00:04, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
 * My sincerest apologies -didnt realise it was letting the feline escape - I should have suggested a template welcome to new west oz users ( about 5 yesterday i think) ffor consistency SatuSuro 00:21, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Edit conflicts now. Where is this template or is this WA=yes thing. Any way ... :Your phrase gave a shudder. I left this idea with suro: How about someone clever with image manipulation make a barnstar from WA police badge (@commons) to WA police project "for outstanding service and protection of WA pages".  As the star is inverted maybe it coud be a humorous award? Fred.e 00:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you
Your help with leads for references for the animals in popular culture category is immensely helpful - after taking 12 and 14 yr old to charlottes web realise that rats get a poor showing on wikipedia- Rats in popular culture will probably be up soon! Thank you! SatuSuro 04:26, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Megafauna- the whole charismatic section is suspect - exact text as a t shirt web page ad - one pinched from the other - but which order? SatuSuro 05:40, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Conservation status
This is excellent. My thanks and congratulations for a job well done. Hesperian 04:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That was just a test. :) I've changed it now so you don't need to manually include the image either. See this. There might still be some minor bugs to work out before I start working on the NatureServe categories too. I hope Banksia brownii benefits from the main page exposure it's about to get. Let me know if there's any concerns with the status how it is too. —Pengo talk · contribs 06:51, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Please check your facts before editing. Alfonzo Dominico Jones died in the second series of Seachange. Please refer to the programmes official website. I suspect an instance of the pot calling the kettle black. Knobcheesedeluxe 07:42, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

"Indeed; that was just stupid. If you want to be a part of Wikipedia you must curb your tendency to make stupid edits. Hesperian 04:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Please check your facts before editing. Alfonzo Dominico Jones died in the second series of Seachange. Please refer to the programmes official website. I suspect an instance of the pot calling the kettle black. Knobcheesedeluxe 07:42, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I was talking about your creation of an article called collapsible shutters with the content "They're mint!!!!". I stand by when I said: that was just stupid. You'd be wasting your time accusing me of making stupid edits like that, because I don't, and everyone knows it. Hesperian 11:38, 23 December 2006 (UTC)"

Perhaps the comment on collapsable shutters was stupid as you allege, but why did you go around making changes to my other edits. I would say that you most certainly did make a stupid edit when you reverted the changes I made back to a mistruth. You did not check your facts which left you open to a stupid edit! Knobcheesedeluxe 11:44, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Main Page
Congratulations on getting a Banksia FA on the Main Page --Steve (Slf67)talk 00:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * My memory assured me a previous Banksia FA had made the front page, but a deeper perusal proved me wrong! Hence I changed 'another' to 'a'. I must have been thinking of the Banksia integrifolia FAC --Steve (Slf67)talk 05:25, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed - congratulations! :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Orderinchaos78 (talk • contribs) 05:04, 24 December 2006 (UTC).
 * Another chiding from HagermanBot above but I happened log in at front page and noticed this FA. A  very fine article.  The red spot on the aus map was slightly amusing but actually very informative for the general reader.  A beautiful subject well presented. Fred 05:19, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Not been as bad as I thought WP:BEANS as to what I expected, more from within than without. Anyhow enjoy christmas, Gnangarra 12:35, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations on the main page. Looks like you guys had a busy 24 hours! &mdash;Moondyne 06:09, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Plants and pollinators
Yes, congrats on the FA. I replied to your comment on my talk page to keep it together. Pollinator 04:48, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Mooroolbark anon...
...is back! Also some edits from a user along the same lines - not sure if they're the same person. Orderinchaos78 05:02, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I noticed; but no time to look into it now, as I'm about to log off. I'll have a look tonight. Hesperian 05:05, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * They seem to have stopped for now. I have no doubt they'll be back though on some future day. Orderinchaos78 07:53, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Adminship
Wow... I really do take that as a compliment coming from yourself. I would, although I might want to wait a couple of weeks to make sure I have covered any gaps that may exist in my knowledge. What do you reckon? Orderinchaos78 11:30, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That is my thinking too - glad we agree! Orderinchaos78 11:09, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

First thing
Please look at footworks edits on the metro water board - please could you see if you can help - got too late to sort it out, have left a message with gnang as well just incase. I was trying to get the articles to match for a disambig and something hung up - not sure Thanks SatuSuro 16:02, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Ignore I have fixed and move the pages around to enable the dab, Gnangarra 16:32, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

thanks!
dunno what that was about but it gave me a bit of a shock. There are a couple of computers i use at work. now back to editing..........cheers Cas Liber 05:24, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Banksia map
An idea for your Banksia Project. How about the whole continent and an inset map showing finer detail. I browsed a few more of these pages, a worthy project. Another idea, linking dieback to that DAB. Best wishes for season. Fred 09:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * However I think these things usually work by having the broader location inset within the detail e.g. An map of Australia inset into the map of WA. Good idea, so I'm going to say that is what I meant! Will take it to Gn. (Dieback?) Best wishes, Fred

Ta for the illuminating reply. I can see why, now. It would be tedious to explain that in every page, too. What about to the specific cause (if known) of 'dieback' in given species, or have you done that. I remember now that it is a problematic term. Can also see that links to dabs are wishy washy. Glad I asked though. Fred 12:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Passing through
I can see you've been busy and I'm feeling a bit guilty leaving you guys to it all. I'll be around for 24hrs only. &mdash;Moondyne 11:39, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Logging off now
Just a courtesy note as I am engaged in a number of conversations. Hesperian 12:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * One reply; or expand this? Fred 12:45, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

FA plans
Don't know if it can be done but Hamersley, Western Australia has been one of my focuses. An IP editor has come along and made significant changes tonight and peer reviewed it, which I'm very grateful for. Feel free to offer any ideas or edit away :) Orderinchaos78 12:56, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I've just submitted it for GAC after reviewing the changes made by the peer reviewer. Orderinchaos78 14:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You wouldn't happen to know offhand any Wikipedians who can translate town planning jargon? I found two Govt Gazette entries at the Battye today, and a newspaper article largely quoting the shire planner, but parts may as well be written in Dutch. Orderinchaos78 11:17, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that - much appreciated! (And makes a bit more sense now) I added today's research to it. As usual, more questions raised than answers, but at least the background story to this is beginning to build (and actually get quite interesting - if a Premier turned up to a land auction and told people how to bid in the modern day, I strongly doubt the media would see it as harmlessly as they did in 1968 :P ) Orderinchaos78 12:56, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Cats/Projects etc
Apologies if I got it wrong - I thought if there were issues with the dieback - although australia wide - the south west wa context surely makes it appropriate? Maybe I need to be careful for the wider australia wide issues - but... SatuSuro 04:51, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for explaining - just wait when I get into tagging maritime project arts! heheh 05:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)  (signing problem by SatuSuro 16:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Diplodocus FAC
Hi, I've nominated Diplodocus for FA - let me know what you think. Also, another editor Firsfron has been blocked by an autoblock like I did. Incidentally, have you seen Kelly Martin's reward for animal and plant articles in her december archive (good time to nominate B epica.....) cheers Cas Liber 09:00, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Statoid
Two red link eds are having a statoid war on western australia art - (I've got to get off I dont know if you want to join in or not :) SatuSuro 04:22, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * There is a boring email for backup info on what might be a boring issue, apologies in advance SatuSuro 12:11, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all that. SatuSuro 12:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Thomas pettigrew
Is the nice http://www.unmuseum.org/mumwrap.htm article a help  at  Thomas Pettigrew? Fred 18:46, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

WA Project
siste project links have come up red - I think I need to get off the computer - what did i do wrong? SatuSuro 03:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC) embarrassed - I really need to go do something else - found it sorry to have nbothered SatuSuro 03:08, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Arabic and Farsi Wikipedias
Thanks for those links. Would you have any idea how I could get English translations of those articles? Adam 06:46, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

We should just put a sign up...
Would you believe a completely unrelated anon is trying to add stuff to the Mooroolbark article? I'm beginning to think someone redirected "chicken" again :D Orderinchaos78 10:21, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Seems that way. You beat me to reverting it. :) I wish the AEC would get their site sorted out! It's been down all weekend (it was henrietta's turn last weekend) and I want to fix the politics infoboxes on a stack of articles. Orderinchaos78 10:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Ornithological
Watching the birds pass by - Hey I've passed my 10,000 edits (no awb used :) ) but the article count is no even half there (new year resolution reduce talk page pollution :) )   anyways what all this means is - Happy New Year! SatuSuro 11:13, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Copied from SatuSuro talk page - And a Happy New Year to you too. I salute all us losers insert made (for other readers - stalwarts, dads taxi transporting my teenagers to places on the Darling Scarp needs comic relief in wikipedia)  who think a good New Years Eve is an evening on Wikipedia.  actually spent most of afternoon at leighton beach with 2 of them - delightful! SatuSuro 11:28, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Dark-eyed Junco
Hi! SD Birds is a nice website! Enjoyed your photography! Just an FYI, I removed the link for your website at the DE Junco article. It linked to your commercial introductory page, rather than the specific DE junco article within your website. Feel free to link to your junco article.... I'm trying to finish off the remaining NA birds not already having an article page.....any help you can give would be appreciatedPmeleski 14:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * wrong person....sorry!Pmeleski 14:13, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Cripes it was beginning to look interesting... what was all that about? SatuSuro 14:23, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Re User:Hesperian/Sandbox comment
Always look on the bright side of life! SatuSuro 14:27, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

ISBN of Mitchell-Wilcox book
Hello Hesperian! Could you take a look at some of the recenly created (or moved) Acacia articles? This edit shows that many of them are using an invalid ISBN for the Mitchell-Wilcox book. It's a simple 2-digit correction, and it gets those articles out of CAT:INVALID. EdJohnston 02:51, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Quick question
Firstly, Happy New Year. I got dragged off to Northbridge and reminded that my clubbing days of my youth are long over, although the Gloucester Park fireworks were fantastic (They're honestly reaching to overtake Lotto Skyworks in my opinion!)

Onto more serious stuff. What is the best way to nominate a POV fork article for AFD? Maybe it's just post-NYE blues but I am not seeing an obvious deletion reason to put it under, although I know there must be one. Thanks. Orderinchaos78 05:37, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * WP:POVFORK does it fit under this? Gnangarra 05:43, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * or was it more like this Articles for deletion/Traditional Marriage maybe its just WP:POINT anyhow whats the article Gnangarra 05:47, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You'll laugh. Mooroolbark township and Mooroolbark community, both created this afternoon. Orderinchaos78 10:30, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that (and good call on the talk page). Add that to the inventory of case history I'm building of how to deal with difficult cases. :) I got entirely around the splitting issue with the LGA creations by simply writing brand new articles according to a prescribed format, as often once I'd done so, the original content was redundant and stubbish by comparison anyway. But there's many cases where that doesn't apply - i.e. when the original is perfectly adequate and well-researched and it's not sensible to recreate. The history splitting thing if they ever implement it would be fantastic, although probably will create loads of work for admins when users do the splitting manually....
 * On another note, my little sandbox is looking very played-in at the moment. After tomorrow I should be able to wrap up the research stage. At least it's gone from being a set of disparate facts and incomprehensible documents to actually starting to make some sort of sense. One thing I hate though is when you find out stuff through research, going in with one question and coming out with your answer but another seven questions... or realise only when you get home that that incredibly rare document you glossed over because it didn't seem important was actually critical and you have just a 5 word pencil summary of it that even you can't understand any more. Orderinchaos78 11:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That's actually not a bad approach. I have photocopied all the gazette entries as they're so specifically worded that relying on notes or memory could be a mistake. Most of the newspapers are on microfilm so I shorthand the articles and hope I can translate it when I get home. Orderinchaos78 14:21, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Digging in the bushes
Hope you dont mind I'm poking around here, I'ver added a couple towns. Gnangarra 12:09, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Should do it now its a wonderful collection Gnangarra 12:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * added 14 towns including Brunswick Junction and Zanthus, I'll be back to add more another time Gnangarra 13:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Going to a gogo
FYI re. Gogo fish: Gogonasus. Thanks for this fascinating lead. Are these articles treated in the same way as existing species? HNY Fred 15:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

WP Aust and WP WA
Just noticed your edit to caronade island - I hope it wasnt me - _if_ there is already a subsidiary WA cat - we leave the main off - yes? Is there ever a point where the double barrell woulkd be required? SatuSuro 15:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

WesternAustralia-stub
Hi - it has come to our notice that you have recently created a new stub type. As it clearly states at WP:STUB, at the top of most stub categories, on the template page for new Wikiprojects and in many other places on Wikipedia, new stub types should be proposed prior to creation at WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals, in order to check whether the new stub type is already covered by existing stub types, whether it is named according to stub naming guidelines, whether it reaches the standard threshold for creation of a new stub type, whether it crosses existing stub type hierarchies, and whether better use could be made of a WikiProject-specific talk page template.

In the case of your new stub type, it appears to be well-formed and well populated, and will almost certainly be kept rather than being deleted, but it would have been very useful if you had passed it by the people who actually deal with stubs in general first! Your new stub type is currently listed at WP:WSS/D - please feel free to make any comments there about the new stub type. Grutness...wha?  23:01, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * ''Hi Grutness,
 * ''Yes, I'm aware of the various exhortations for me to ask permission before creating new stubs. No doubt you're aware that there are still a few of us around who consider this "rule" to be an unacceptable imposition on the Wiki philosophy. It is a rule that I have every intention of ignoring, as I am very strongly opposed to having to ask a WikiProject's permission before creating a page.
 * ''Rest assured that I don't create stubs very often, and when I do whey are invariably sensible, so my refusal to sign on oughtn't cause you any difficulties going forward.
 * ''See you round.
 * ''Hesperian 23:19, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah - the last of a dying breed! Almost everyone else who started making stubs without going through the standard processes has come to realise, over time, just how useful it is to follow the standard way of doing things and go through WP:WSS first. Consider this - WP:WSS is trying to co-ordinate stubs across the whole of Wikipedia. it's a hard enough task as it is without the creation of new types that aren't known about by the project or are only known about after creation. it's all very well to Ignore all rules, but I suggest you actually read WP:IAR before you start adhering to it - especially the links from it to Use common sense, with its comment ''Invoking the principle of "Ignore all rules" on its own will not convince anyone that you were right, so you will need to persuade the rest of the community that your actions improved the encyclopedia. A skilled application of this concept should ideally fly under the radar, and not be noticed at all.'' Well, we notice, because we're busy trying to keep things organised, which is enough like trying to bail out the Titanic with a bucket as it is. Yeah, I understand you don't create stubs very often, and that your stubs are good ones - but it's still very useful to keep us in the loop, since we're the people who actually need to know about them and use them. Grutness...wha?  23:40, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * ''I see a lot of foolishness on Wikipedia. Most of it is low impact. I agree that the application of foolishness to stub creation would have a larger than desirable impact, although I think that impact has been rather exaggerated by WP:STUB. I think the goals of WP:STUB are reasonable, even laudable, but I don't much like the way they go about doing things. To my mind, their structure and methods are unnecessarily overbearing and authoritarian. I think Wikipedia would continue to get along just fine if WP:STUB revised its pushy "ask permission first" policy down to a friendly "please let us know if you create a stub" policy. Other WikiProjects manage to promulgate and enforce conventions without resorting to the kind of overbearing methods that WP:STUB have adopted.
 * Regarding your reply, I rather feel as though you latched onto my decision to link the word "ignoring" to WP:IAR, and addressed that to the exclusion of everything else. I'm curious as to how you would have responded if I had not linked that one word. (related to previous version)
 * ''Hesperian 00:03, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

...in which case, perhaps the question is why you linked that word. As to everything else, look at it this way. There are currently 4,000 stub categories. Through the proposal page, that number is increasing by one or two a day. other stub types, not cleared there, run to about five or six a day, mostly created by people who don't realise there's a standard procedure - so in a year's time, there are likely to be 6,500 stub types if we don't keep track. Ordainary categories, it's less of a problem - they're designed to make things easier for readers, and it doesn't matter if there are only one or two items in them. Stub categories are designed for editors, and because of that need slightly different rules - which is why we tend to be sticklers about naming, size and the like. It makes it very difficult for editors if they have to wade through a dozen tiny categories looking for what they need in the way of articles, rather than one comfortably sized category that has enough stubs that they are likely to find something they can edit but not so many that they are swamped with articles. Also, consider it from the point of view of maintenance. Categories themselves cause problems if they need to be altered after creation. so do templates. But templates with linked categories compound these problems. It makes far more sense to make sure that things are right before a stub type is made. yes, I know that your stub types are sensible ones, but ebven the most experienced stub sorter can make mistakes when creating a new stub type, so it's important to make sure that any of these potential problems are ironed out beforehand. Passing your proposal before a group of people with loads of experience dealing with stub types isn't going to hurt and could conceivably save a lot of effort later. let's face it - if your stub types are all as sensible as this one, we're hardly going to say "no, you can't make it" - but if you do accidentally fail to notice something, chances are it will be spotted before the stub type is made. For inexperienced editors, it does amount to permission to some extent, but for experienced editors like you, it's far more a case of a last double-check to make sure everything's going to work OK. Grutness...wha?  00:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is "all in the spirit of friendly debate" :) I've nothing against you at all - the uncontrollable proliferation of stub types does make me a bit grumpy, is all. So seeing a good editor like you adding to it just rankles a little. Grutness...wha?  00:37, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Note my comments at WP WSS/D SatuSuro 23:10, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * And at grutnesses esteemed talk page! SatuSuro 23:18, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Personally I think they got it back to front - I can think of heaps of stubs created that need to be deleted after they are formed - not before they start! for that matter not just stubs - but categories as well!! SatuSuro 23:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

You have email
Sorry to be a nuisance SatuSuro 01:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * User page - looks great! SatuSuro 02:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * ''The above text is preserved as an archive of discussions at User talk:Hesperian. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on User talk:Hesperian. No further edits should be made to this page.