User talk:Hesperian/Archive 31


 * The following text is preserved as an archive of discussions at User talk:Hesperian. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on User talk:Hesperian. No further edits should be made to this page.

Tonights gem
Gnashing of advice teeth, gnarling of totally unwiikii style gums, and growling of gruff swear words - we give you I trust the rather odd sentence above is self evidently explained by the manner and content of the item :| SatuSuro 12:29, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Reverted as a copyvio of http://www.derbytourism.com.au/pages.asp?code=80. Thanks for pointing that out. Hesperian 12:33, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * heheh been there since november last :( SatuSuro 12:34, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


 * BTW scuse the interruption of your script work - any notion of the insects of australia - any idea of the extent of done/undone components - for eg dragonflies, flies, bees, or others - have you ever seen much work on that area within the old wik goldfishbowl? SatuSuro 12:43, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry have sorted the answer out muself - about as thin on the ground as the common bushfly in a bloody cold room in the mid west outback - pathetic - i remember by fathers copy of the 2 vol csiro? insects of oz from 30 years ago - longer and fatter than three bibles next to each other - sorry to bother ill grumble about that to myself or something off wiki about that - cheers SatuSuro 12:47, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I have that very two-volume set myself, if you can fairly call a massive volume and a tiny supplement a two-volume set. Yeah, the insects are pretty much unexplored territory. Hesperian 12:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Unidentified photo help
Hi. I've got a unidentified photo which I've posted here. Would you know where I could get a faster response? Bidgee (talk) 13:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, no idea. I can't help you; my insect book only goes down to family level, and doesn't come with pretty pictures. I myself know bugger-all on the subject. :-(

Animals of Australia
Hi - can you go through and remove this category from animals which are found everywhere? This was discussed on the orca page and I see you've reverted that one too. Unless we want an endless list of links, every country in the world with a seacoast could list orca as native. Different story with the marsupials and others. Thanks. Bob98133 (talk) 13:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I saw the discussion; it was about Australian state categories, such as Category:Mammals of Tasmania. In response I removed the state categories from all the cetacean articles. However, Australia is a continent. I think it is appropriate to list these articles by distribution at continental scale. Hesperian 13:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
 * OK - I reverted the links I removed. Again apologies. I'm not used to thinking of Australia as a continent! Bob98133 (talk) 14:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

SB
I have been pondering for a few days whether the best place for a Shark Bay category might be best placed along side the great barrier reef as a sub cat of the world heritage category for australia - even though there are parts of the region that are not included - it seem the most approriate - am asking a few others as well what do you think? SatuSuro 10:48, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think that's okay. You remember that old chestnut about how Emu (beer) is in Category:States and territories of Australia via Category:Western Australia, even though Emu beer isn't one of the nine states. Similar principle applies here. Hesperian 00:07, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * P.S. My sources tell me that in all your time here you have never created a category. That is an omission that must be remedied. So come on; stop talking about it and bite the bullet. ;-) Hesperian 00:14, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Escaladix? sounds like what i used to read my kids when they were younger - asterix's german sidekick perhaps? SatuSuro 00:47, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Crikey moses, he did it! Hesperian 01:43, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

wheeee! thanks for the tidy up, er bays thingo - I have my eyes on the south west tas world heritage thingo next using the quick cat is a breeze SatuSuro 02:07, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * isn't it though? I just discovered it a couple of days ago - is it new? It certainly makes adding categories much easier. Cheers,Sterry2607 (talk) 07:52, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * heheheh, the points come jumping out like that - ok - I'll try dealing with that - (? must I put summaries like that up ? I ask myself - arrgh too many cygnis talk page ideas swimming in the head after an hour off the computer) - cheers, thanks and yes - um SatuSuro 12:44, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah I am just trying another block of coords - if you have a working edge on this all I am trying for the area between Cape Bellefin across to denham (ok not a straight line) and down in the depths to Tamala homestead as the southerly point - any chances? If you find it all (probably heaps - maybe best place to dump would be User:SatuSuro/Work In Progress work page - im trying to see whether after the bellefin heirisson prong and carrarang peninsula whether the smaller two before the bay turns north are actually named at all - thanks for the earlier dump - great stuff! cheers and thanks SatuSuro 13:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: Cape York Peninsula Welcome
Thanks for your reply to my Cape York Peninsula posting and the welcome message on my talk page + links to editing/style pages. I can definitely use some help on that!
 * One question: You say "So long as what you add is your own work, and not copied from somewhere else, then you are free to contribute." Nothing that I've got is my own work, but everything is taken from references. I thought the point of wikipedia was NOT to include original work and keep everything verifiable by references?? Can you please clarify what you mean by that?
 * I try to post my entry on Cape York Peninsula today - if I manage to work out the editing format!

Cheers,--Jensemilla (talk) 00:20, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Horgan's Happy Healthy Adelaide Terrace Mansion Livers and Kidneys
Thanks for that - closer to the original advice i sent you all those moons ago :) - cheers SatuSuro 01:06, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I wonder if I still have that email. I always intended to get around to executing your advice. It only took me three years or so. Hesperian 01:13, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah you have done it - removed the 'certainty' of just 6 identifiable names to explain that things got complicated through inter-marriage etc - thats enough SatuSuro 01:18, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Borders by country
Some nice person from another country snuck in and gave WP OZ a new category overnight - which i have tagged - but i have a sneaking memory of heaps of arts/cats from a long time ago that i probably tagged :( that have some connection with this new and wonderous little collection of two arts - do you have any memory of the other stuff or am i dreaming? I know it ties with the coastal stuff as eez's and etc - but i thought I had touched on a heap of other arts that might be related. No worries if it doesnt click with you - (btw want me to drop off some australian poetry books at the front desk at work :| ? ) anyways off for the rest of day (possibly) cheers SatuSuro 03:14, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Very interesting category. I added the corners. Can't think of anything else offhand. Hesperian 03:27, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * By jove you got it - that Is what I was hazy bout - hey thanks for that it was em! SatuSuro 03:30, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "By Jove"? And your "Escaladix" comment above? It is nice to know that one small Gaulish village is still holding out against the Romans after all this time. Hesperian 03:36, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ingenium mala saepe movent or perhaps more appropriately feriss caret necessitas SatuSuro 04:36, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

OK ill email the translations later and eat my words about the poetry books - :( (gawd thats another round i owe at the next meetup) SatuSuro 00:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Goscinny, Ovid and Palladius; what a trinity. Hesperian 00:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

tagging birds of *Australian state*
Given that there have been several puashes in the past to rationalise or remove birds of country tags (see Category talk:Biota by country and Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_September_22) why the sudden push in the other direction with regards to Australian states? In particular two examples spring out as particularly onerous, Atlantic Yellow-nosed Albatross and Cattle Egret. The first is a very occasional vagrant to the area, which hardly makes it a bird of South Australia, the second is a cosmopolitan species that had around 30 country of cats before the lot were removed and the single cosmopolitan species tag added. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  04:15, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I was unaware of these "several pushes"; a quick review indicates that one such push resulted in the deletion of Category:Fauna of Scotland, which is in my opinion a perfectly acceptable category, and its deletion a complete disaster for anyone interested in that topic. Judging by the amount of blue in the CfD for that one, more than half of the deleted categories have already been recreated. Just goes to show how obvious and logical (and therefore prima facie correct) these categories were.
 * My source,
 * lists vagants and occasional visitors, but annotates them as such. Since these species should not be considered part of the established fauna of South Australia, I didn't categorise them. Atlantic Yellow-nosed Albatross appears to have slipped through because the scientific name my source gives for the Yellow-nosed Albatross, Diomedea chlororhynchos, redirects to that article. Presumably I should have tagged Indian Yellow-nosed Albatross; these two species were considered conspecific in 2000, hence the confusion. That accounts for your first point.
 * As for your second point, I will track down the cosmopolitan species and remove them, in deference to a decision already taken, even though I strongly disagree with that decision.
 * More generally, I think this issue is one of perspective. If you look at it from the perspective of the Cattle Egret article, you can only see that the article has, or had, or could have, way too many categories, and that this is a blight on the article. But if you look at it from the perspective of any one of those categories, you see the category as interesting and eminently sensible, and would much prefer it were fully populated. Similarly, your interest in Category:Birds of South Australia is as a bird category, and from that perspective, you will see South Australia as a largely irrelevant entity. My interest in it is as a South Australia category, and from that perspective it is a perfectly reasonable category, and it makes perfect sense to populate it with all the birds that occur in that state.
 * I wish I had a solution to this, Sabine's; these days I'm beginning to think that categorisation is irreparably broken. What do you recommend?
 * Hesperian 04:42, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know if there is an answer, Hesp. Categorisation simply ceases to be useful, in my opinion, in cases where a cat has more than 250 articles - and cats like Birds of Uganda and Birds of the Rwanada could have 1200 species in them, and I simply don't see how that is useful. Cattle Egret could conceivably have every country in the Americas, Africa and almost all of Asia. My point about Australia was the trend of even more specialisation - Cattle Egret could also be in at least 30 US states, all 26 Brazilian states, all of the DRC's divisions, every island in Indonesia, it goes on and on. To my mind cats are most useful for natural habitats (like Birds of the Amazon) or discrete locations (island groups and the like). For birds of political entities I think lists are more useful. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  05:00, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I treat 200 as the cut-off, because 200 fits on a single page. But my solution for Birds of Uganda having 1200 categories would be to subcategorise e.g. Passerines of Uganda, rather than discard. Clearly we're not going to agree on this point. I think that categories are most useful when they reflect the mental categories that people use in the real world; and (unfortunately) people are far more likely to think of, take interest in, even comprehend, the birds of a country or state, than the birds of a given habitat. I suspect we won't agree on that point either.
 * I'm going to withdraw from categorisating for a while. My normal mode of operation here is to work on groups of related, low-profile articles, such as the articles in Category:Houtman Abrolhos. This two-week categorisation jaunt has been very unusual for me, and it has brought me a lot of conflict that I would rather not have, and with editors that I respect and would prefer to be working with rather than against.
 * Apologies but I'm not prepared to depopulate and delete the three birds by state categories right now. You can CfD them if you want, or depopulate them and delete them yourself (you have my express permission to db-author them), or we can just sit on the issue for a while, let them decompose over time, and revisit this later.
 * Hesperian 05:44, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * P.S. I've sent you an email meta this issue.
 * P.S. I've sent you an email meta this issue.


 * Just a few words changed to allow for cats to be compose - and we have - da da! -  SatuSuro 05:51, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Image proposal
Thanks for your input. I think we are basically agreeing but using slightly different terms. I responded here Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style. Regards Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 13:37, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
I think that is a serious problem on Wikipedia. You should hear what I hear when I talk to geneticists, molecular biologists, virologists, and other scientists about editing Wikipedia. This is pretty typical: someone corrects the grammar in an article, or a spelling error, and gets reverted by a bot and accused of vandalism. This is usually when using IPs, though, not with registered new users. Still, I think Wikipedia vastly underestimates the bad will it generates among experts by the way established users gang up against new users. --Blechnic (talk) 02:26, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

North Island
Is there a reason you've chosen to Americanise an Australian article? viz. "calcretized" and "naturalized". Moondyne 12:53, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed, thanks. 13:53, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Ned Kelly
Is it that we leave a sacrificial article to get mauled by vndls and protect others - its endless some - idiot in the media over east must be encouraging the highly literate (see my most recnt edit - the railway one - to see what i mean) to text their capacty for their idiocy as well at such an article? SatuSuro 01:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You've heard the old maxim Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity. There should probably be a corollary along the lines of Never attribute to conspiracy what is adequately explained by society going to the dogs. 01:49, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Reversions are not working there - there is residual stuff not properly removed by earlier reverts its full of pooops everywhere - strongly suggest a no wiki message at top of article re taking care during reversions as the residual buits are accumulating - some bugger should protect the bloody thing SatuSuro 03:09, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Gawd what a mess - it must have been attracting flies for longer than we ever picked up - sigh. I still cannot get over http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Great_Southern_Railway_%28Western_Australia%29 I bet it happens a lot more than we see! SatuSuro 04:43, 7 May 2008 (UTC) Your summary tells it all - I simply didnt want to delete immediately - thanks for that - cheers SatuSuro 04:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Puzzling comment
We do not understand what "narcissism" you were speaking of in your edit summary; we are very much down-to-earth and in touch with reality, and have a largely objective and distanced view of Our Grace. We fear that your comment was based on a most inaccurate judgement of our personality, and that it does us no justice at all. :-)

Seriously, though... Any comments on what you've read? I'm always in the mood for some wiki-philosophical discourse. Waltham, The Duke of 01:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Not really; I was just trying to get a handle on why Tony always refers to you as Your Grace. Is he trying to amuse you or annoy you; or does he do it for his own amusement; or is he merely holding to stylistic convention with his characteristic tenacity? I didn't find an answer, but I did discover that, whatever his reason, you have brought it on yourself, and are condemned to accept it in good humour. Hesperian 01:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * My dear fellow, all that Anthony does is to treat me with the respect befitting my station. Your Grace is the proper style of a Duke; although it would take you more than omitting it to suffer my displeasure, using it would aid you in gaining my favour and being placed in a position to enjoy the gifts which I am able to bestow.
 * As you can see, this is all part of an elaborate joke. Obviously, I shouldn't be using a title of nobility as a username and have fashioned my user page into an article about a peer if I felt annoyed by being humorously treated as one, should I? Besides, Tony is easy-going enough, as long as you don't test his patience every single day by saying how much the Manual of Style sucks. I don't blame him for most of his outbursts; he's had to put up with more than his share of undisguised stupidity. Waltham, The Duke of 03:24, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I realise that Your Grace is the proper style of a Duke. And yes, I quite agree re: Tony; there is no need to defend him here, Your Grace. Hesperian 03:32, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And I must say it is truly benevolent of you to condescend to speak with the descendant of a convict. Hesperian 03:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ... Your Grace. Hesperian 03:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I am now willing to admit that perhaps, if correctly handled, the style can be used to the effect of irritation. You do not seem to possess the necessary skill, however. :-p Waltham, The Duke of 04:14, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Re Perry Lakes
As at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Gnangarra - how long has it got? the stadium that is - perry SatuSuro 06:00, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Dunno exactly. I only know that the impending demolition is an unavoidable fact. Hesperian 06:20, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well thats a certainty then - like tex and def - might be thet wey next week SatuSuro 06:27, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Will try tomorrow, have learner needing to accumulate 25 hours also do challenge stadium and the old airport/track behind CSIRO, might as well add Graylands and Karrakatta Barracks while I'm there, maybe even RPH Shenton Pk. Is CSIRO a worthy subject? Gnangarra 11:52, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * See when you least expect to hear or see him he's there - his smiling camera and his willing time - and getting close to home - so to speak :| SatuSuro 11:55, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * this one I think is the BAWA home Gnangarra 13:13, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Update had 30 mins with no rain so took many internal picts of Perry Lakes Stadium, the fountain at the front of challenge was under repair all guff they had there I didnt wory about that will do again soon. the brookdale track area looks like its all gone but again I check more throughly next visit. BAWA need to have a different lens so next visit. end result I got a good selection on perry lakes, whats left of it any way. Image uploads before the week end Gnangarra 05:40, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep the learner got some wonderful wet weather driving particularly around Challenge the road way was nice flooded on the southern side. Oh and a quick uploaded image, its looking really run down give it another month or two and all they'll need is broom and dust pan to clean the site :( Gnangarra 06:07, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

RfBAG support
Thanks mate, it means a lot. You know why. ;) Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 02:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

New Stylidium taxa
I guess you're probably aware of these, but just in case you're not: Hesperian 05:16, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yep, thanks for the reminder, though. I downloaded the pdfs as soon as they were put up on the Nuytsia site. The kicker is that Juliet Wege has many, many more species to describe and it's difficult to wait in anticipation of the Flora of Australia volume that will contain her revision of the family. But I'm assuming that's years away. At least I can't find anything discussing when that volume is expected to be published.
 * I've been a little absent around here lately, which is why a reminder of what I want to accomplish here was nice to receive :). I started my new job as a microbiology research assistant a couple weeks ago and it's taking up all of my time! Once I get in the swing of things, I'll get back to polishing off the rest of the Utricularia stubs and then make my way back to Stylidium, where those images Melburnian alerted me to will be helpful. Hope all's well on your end of the world! Cheers, Rkitko (talk) 12:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

art changes
ooh all those arts to tag on your contribs, I thought and then realised they were just a heap of redirects :| SatuSuro 00:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * All but one of them :-) Hesperian 00:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Its moments like these
Someone happy chappy has gone global on this sort of thing, it makes me feel - the next time I tag an art will some bright spark want to come along and change one word in a 10 word category title for the whole world? bah I say SatuSuro 00:23, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh. Have commented. Hesperian 00:38, 14 May 2008 (UTC) Thanks I hadnt got around to commenting myslf yet SatuSuro 00:51, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Landgate
Might or not need a watch - me thinks landgate personages have been there :( SatuSuro 02:03, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I checked her out when she first started editing; she is one of their media people. I've got half an eye on her, but you know I've never seen the point of all the fuss over conflict of interest. I'm not going to get on her case if she's not doing anything wrong. Hesperian 02:10, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough - someone doesnt like my comment about the fact their name changes so much - pissing into the wind - it has changed a lot :( but i will wait till i find the state records thingo on the dates and institutional names - at least the archives dont lie SatuSuro 02:15, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Department of Crown Lands; Department of the Surveyor-General; Department of Lands and Surveys; Department of Land Administration; Department of Land Information; Landgate. What have I missed? Hesperian 02:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah the point was the quickness of change between the last three - like the closeness in time of establishing a new trading name SatuSuro 03:26, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah I remember when it became Landgate thinking that it had only been DLI for a few years. Hesperian 03:27, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * But when you look at the dates in the sub-art that I have in the landgate art - its not that bad really - but the staff sure pick up on it if you talk with em about it :( SatuSuro 03:34, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Electrician
Is here Im off for indertiminate - could you please pretty please check the recent idiots i have been dealing with and a watchful eye please? thanks SatuSuro 01:16, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * wilco 01:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * sparky gone, ac tech gone, retic tech gone, wife out - ahhh - ta thanks muchly argh your awb edits look like carpet bombing in the vietnam war - trust theres no dieldrin in there :| SatuSuro 05:57, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Pathetic, innit? Over a thousand edits so far today. I didn't know I had it in me :-( I've had some online reading to do, and with the right split-screen setup I find I can AWB without becoming completely useless. Hesperian 06:00, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * gng has seen my setup - now have a 2nd screen attached here - but so much to do never enough time - :( - the more i hear stuff on the media about claims to authority/fraud and authenticity of knowledge - tis good to hear at least one commander of awb facility has the capacity and integrity to remove error and crap - well done ! SatuSuro 06:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Zoot cliffs
Very nice picckie - good find! some maps show em start well south of steep point - gotta teach myself some map making like you do - there is a current shark bay report (not forgetting my mania for tas stubs at the mo) that has heap of new info that i need to create my own maps from - is there a recommended software for making ones own (ok you work on the darkside pc's i know - but my kids have one) ? SatuSuro 13:52, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

North Island (Houtman Abrolhos)
The geography section says "About 200 metres west of the island is a small rock informally known as "Shag Rock", but with no gazetted name; it is not to be confused with the gazetted Shag Rock in the Wallabi Group further south". This statement needs a more clarification especially if the rock is significant. You added link to Shag Rock, will you create an article on Shag Rock (Houtman Abrolhos)?  Otolemur crassicaudatus  (talk) 13:53, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. Hesperian 06:25, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

St Geos Tce
Council House, Perth is there at the end of the photo and the old building still at the corner with barrack street - yes 68 is highly likely - hardly call it perth though :( SatuSuro 13:07, 18 May 2008 (UTC) As for exmouth gulf - henrietta has a huge number of cited wrecks in there - a good lot in 1893 - wow thats a maritime hist article like moondynes rotto wrecks in itself if one sifted through the henrietta wrecks.SatuSuro 13:14, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought it was St George's Terrace, but couldn't see anything to confrim it for me. How embarrassing. I reckon SGT is Perth enough to be Perth. Hesperian 13:36, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The right hand rear is the tell tale norfolk island pines and the white t's of the tom the cheap council house north wall which rigyb sent up at the time - bu the council house went up in 62 or so - then it was as perth as the view from kings park - but not in current form.  If you are able id love a dump from your magic source for my new list of islands in shark bay if youre feeling generous :)  otherwise the extra rounds next meetup?  SatuSuro 13:42, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Roger that; will do it tonight. Hesperian 23:58, 18 May 2008 (UTC) Thanks as always SatuSuro 00:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have spend the last two hours culling my watchlist. I thought I was being brutal, but I only managed to remove 5,600 articles :-( I didn't get your Shark Bay list done, sorry. Will do it tomorrow. Hesperian 14:19, 19 May 2008 (UTC) Never apologise to me - just another round sometime - I am battling with my watchlist too its a real pain SatuSuro 00:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)  Thank you - i really appreciate that - cheers SatuSuro 13:05, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your consideration - I just got my hard copy of this http://www.naturebase.net/content/view/3297/1/ today - (and got a great boot out of the herbarium by a temp who didnt know about the public access there heheh) - with the book i should solve most - and also got the geosci special maps of the area - so its just fining the time between armoring (ie defending the with sufficient n and rs)  the tassie stubs and  - living in reality with indonesian list makers - and well sb will happen :| - will keep you posted on queries or observations from the Draft man plan for shark bay - as long as tommorrows storm dosnt give me more hard work SatuSuro 11:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Arrghhh
Places bloody places, what is it that brings out the best in editors when it comes to brackets, commas, and the word 'of' or 'on' - gmme the wide open spaces anytime - editing the deserts perhaps :( SatuSuro 12:06, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Removal
I really strongly object to having valid reports of systematic problems with the way wikipedia deals with incidents simply deleted from the page where incidents are dealt with. I calmly set out the problem, it's something that needs discussed, and to censor the discussion by fiat is completely inappropriate. Shoemaker&#39;s Holiday (talk) 00:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I realise "by fiat" makes that sentence sound really good, but I still don't think you should use it if you don't know what it means. Hesperian 00:37, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, that response was snarky, but it is kind of hard to reply constructively to a complaint that contains plenty of emotion and rhetoric, but very little accuracy. If you'd said "I really strongly object to you removing the thread I started at an inappropriate venue, with an edit summary suggesting a more appropriate venue", then I might be able to address it more constructively. Hesperian 00:41, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * A "fiat" is an arbitrary decision, so your snarky comment is inaccurate. If you had userfied it, or even left a note on my talk page asking me to move it, or with a diff so I could get it again, you would NOT have an upset user here. However, to just keep claiming that a problem about the systemic handling of incidents by administrators leading to major problems should not be on the page about administrators handling incidents, and poking fun at the user you upset...
 * In short, you decided to act arbitrarily, did not bother to tell me, then poked fun of my language (inaccurately) when I brought it up with you. An apology would go a long way towards defusing this situation. Shoemaker&#39;s Holiday (talk) 00:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Fiat, literally "let it be done" in Latin, means an official and authoritative command, a decree. I have neither office nor authority here, so am incapable of acting by fiat. You used the term incorrectly in the above, and I took it as representative of the enitre message, which I consider an overly emotive misrepresentation of my perfectly reasonable action... but still my snarky response was inappropriate, and was obviously only going to inflame the situation. I apologise for being a jerk. Hesperian 00:53, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Right. Sorry, but you really didn't handle that very well, and, well, you might want to consider being a bit more careful about that sort of thing. I'm about to go to bed, and had I not seen it before I went to bed, there's probably little chance that I would have seen you had deleted the section. It wasn't vandalism, it was relevant to the subject of handling incidents, so it wasn't really necessary to treat it as something of no value, which could be thrown out with no need to tell the user outside of one edit summary on an extremely busy page that I was rather lucky to have seen. Just... use a little politeness and tell the person on their talk page, you know? And don't insult an upset user. It really doesn't help. Shoemaker&#39;s Holiday (talk) 01:18, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Augh. And just to add more drama, when firefox crashed and I restarted, it somehow managed to repost the damn thing. At least, that's my best guess, because I'm pretty sure I only intentionally restored it once. Shoemaker&#39;s Holiday (talk) 01:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You did only restore it once. But I only removed it once. :-) Hesperian 01:38, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Arr, sorry. Think I got confused at some point, then. =) Shoemaker&#39;s Holiday (talk) 12:06, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

If you need it
A laugh from the past :( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Transport_in_Australia SatuSuro 01:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Very droll. :) Hesperian 01:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It came from noticing this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Australia_articles_without_a_WikiProject SatuSuro 01:33, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm.... Hesperian 01:34, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * But I wouldnt fret about it - its in good company :| SatuSuro 01:36, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * indeed. Hesperian 01:36, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Dorre Island
Any idea where it went? I was sure I had created a stub - and no trace - someone pinched it, hid it under a chair or something? :| SatuSuro 13:18, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You musta been on Wikipedia in yer dreams. There are no deleted revisions, so I'm afraid it just never was. Hesperian 13:31, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * OK that must be a sign from the great rabbit in the sky that I need to do something - not sure what - maybe I should sleep on it :| thanks for checking anyways just a confirmation that I obviously need ... SatuSuro 13:34, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

The great rabbit in the sky
Yeah well if some silly buggers claim the rabbits came down and found oz - I suppose a fact tag is needed? sorry to harass SatuSuro 12:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)  Frightening  - Mnzs is out for another war with established academica - 1453 - as if the first one wasnt an issue enough - the rabbits will have found antartica if we are not careful SatuSuro 12:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC) Thanks for that - rabbits or no SatuSuro 13:23, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's cool. Of course it is a load of rubbish. Robinson was a schitzophrenic who ended up topping himself while awaiting a finding on attempted murder charges. His ludicrous book should have sunk without a trace. But it didn't; his fantasy that the Phoenicia discovered Australia has been repeated (derisively) numerous times, and is therefore now a notable joke. Hesperian 13:38, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * He does star in playford work as well - i have 2 of playfords and robbo crops a mention SatuSuro 13:44, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The gelignite buccaneer
You acquired the book I see. Can we assume its a RS? Moondyne 13:03, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No I didn't, but I've perused it. No it isn't an RS; no way. But one can cite a fruitcake when saying "a fruitcake once said that....", especially if the fruitcake's books appears in lists like this one. The remaining issue is whether or not it is notable that this particular fruitcake made this particular claim. Normally not, but this particular claim has been bandied about so much, and repeated (derisively) so many times, e.g. by Hughie Edwards in Islands of Angry Ghosts, that I think it would be hard to argue that it isn't notable. Hesperian 13:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, not Islands of Angry Ghosts; I mean Henderson's Phantoms of the Tryall. Hesperian 13:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thats a fine looking bibliography. Moondyne 13:55, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Its not even in alpha order mind you SatuSuro 23:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * ''The above text is preserved as an archive of discussions at User talk:Hesperian. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on User talk:Hesperian. No further edits should be made to this page.