User talk:Hetoum I/Archive 1

Drop a line here.

Barev
to start im sorry if iv posted this in the wrong place i didnt understand where you wanted me to post. Thank you so much for creating a user page for me. I dont exactly know how to edit it though or add links to anything i support. (Gevo2267 04:01, 3 May 2007 (UTC))

RE: Kayamakli mistaken rollback
I'm sorry... I was viewing the recent change log and your edit at 01:39 UTC looked to be vandalism, specifically stating that a building was ruined and changing date to a less specific value. As such, I used the Lupin auto-rollback function, thinking it would go to the last previous edit. I wasn't aware that it would roll back ALL of your changes to the previous user. My apologies. Erpbridge 02:04, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Rafael
Hello,i think the correct name is Rafael de Nogales Méndez in wich he already has an entry in the spanish edition and in wich he also published his memories.In spanish when the ¨de¨ conective precedes a last name the two last names should be pronounced,so if he wass adress he would be called Rafael or Rafael de Nogales Méndez.I think merging them in the full name would be most convenient.Sincerely, --Andres rojas22 16:43, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Kaymaklı Monastery
Please look at the three-revert rule before again undoing anyone's work. Tom Harrison Talk 12:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

reverts
Hetoun, you asked me to comment. I think Tom's current version is pretty good. (except for the second illustration, which I think might be a little inflammatory and unnecessary). As for your edits, I think doing them one at a time made them look more like a potential violation than they actually were, & in a really disputed article I'd avoid giving that impression. DGG 19:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Photos, article
Dear Hetoum I, Regards. Must . T  C 20:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Please stop to add your political (unsourced) Pov's to the article. You dont have any info about Turkey( It is not a shame). Look at to your old edits; You created this article with one sentence with the aim of to add "Genocide" one more article. later-Old versions also was a garbage; Trabzon&Cappadocia together; Kaymaklı underground city and this monastery in one article etc. I created a dab page and made underground city and monastery in seperate articles; related infos and links to related pages etc. Please continue to contribute in positive way.
 * I want to know the source URL of Image:Kaymakli.jpg. You are uploader.Your stated; "Description: pre-1915 postcard", "Source: postcard", "Date: pre-1915", "Author:--", "Permission: none, no copyright" and your tag; "PD US". Ok.
 * Also for Image:Stepanos2.jpg and Image:Stepanos.jpg ( in St. Stepanos Church, Smyrna article) all of them also described by you as "Permission:none, scanned antique" and tagged as "PD US". Please supply your source info/URL.
 * Consider that to give false Copyright info is subject to punishment.

Your recent edit to Battle of Van (diff) was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Wikipedia articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // MartinBot 01:24, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Barev
Barev Hetoum, knerek ays kan jamanak-ah ansel yev der chey het patasqanel. Em karrseekov, it's better not to touch that article, yet. If you can enable ara dzer "elektronikakan namak" option. Avelee lav kelenee vor meekeech kamants sksenk. Thanks, --MarshallBagramyan 05:42, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Բարեվ, այստեխ նայիր թշնամուն դատում են. --VartanM 00:22, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Van
As asked, I've commented on the talk p. there. As always, I just want to discuss the article, not the previous edits. Glad to see you've taken a break from it.DGG

ANI
Hi. I raised the issue of your behavior at Ani board, please see: Grandmaster 16:45, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Can you help me?
Hi! I made a parody of the soviet anthem, and I want some translations to the "soviet" languages. Can you help me, translating it to armenian, please?? Thank you! Sergii-rachmonov 10:01, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok guy. Anyway, thanks a lot! Sergii-rachmonov 01:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Arbcom
Hi. Please be aware that you've been named as a party to a proposed arbcom case here: Requests_for_arbitration. Regards, --Grandmaster 05:34, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

disputes
Please adhere to the general advice, such as your own, to refrain from making controversial edits while there are disputes. Let's settle them amicably and based only on neutral major sources, not Armenian or Azeri. Thank you and best to you, Aramgutan 23:15, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi
Hi, i wanted to inform you that i reported you on 3rr, because you made 6 reverts within 24 hours. I do not like those who report, but do not inform, it happened to me several times, so i hereby inform you. no offence, i really want to end this edit warring but if checkuser would proove that you reverted socks, then I think you can escape block, but for 6 reverts to insert POV? You should bring third party sources, anyway. Ateshi-Baghavan 00:20, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. you do not have a page for Grigor Artsruni or Mshak, but you do edit warring on other pages.:-))Ateshi-Baghavan 00:20, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * look here. Ateshi-Baghavan 00:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Syunik
I responded to you. Please check the Syunik talk page. -- Aivazovsky 14:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2
Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, - Penwhale &#124; Blast him / Follow his steps 16:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

User:Hetoum
There is no block log on User:Hetoum, did you just forget the password? Corvus cornix 18:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, probably when they were running a check on soft passwords, when there were a lot of accounts being hacked. Corvus cornix 18:59, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
That book by Bryer and Winfield is an excellent detailed resource. With your knowledge of the language and history you could make great use of it. I hope you can get access to a copy sometime. Cheers, Tom Harrison Talk 20:42, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

so what was the question
or did my newly exalted status scare you off :) ? DGG 18:10, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Ապեր
Ապեր բացվել էլփոստ ? enable it? Karent82 02:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Shaddadis
Yea sure.Hajji Piruz 22:30, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, right now, the Shaddadids article is not about the dynasty as a whole but rather its individual monarchs. What I suggest is to make the Shaddadids article about the Shadadids in general, and then move the information about the individual monarchs to their own respective articles.Hajji Piruz 21:31, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Church of Kish
I strongly advise you to pursue dispute resolution regarding the dispute at Church of Kish. Ask for a third opinion or issue a request for comment. If you have a valid case, then make it and seek the opinions of other editors to form a consensus to support your POV.

If you fail to pursue the Wikipedia dispute resolution process in good faith, I will unprotect the article and block you for any resumption of edit warring. Then you will not achieve your objectives regarding that article nor will you be able to edit any other article.

--Richard 06:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Church of Kish
There is a proposal at Talk:Church of Kish. I would like to know if you can agree to that proposal so that protection can be lifted and editing can go forward.

--Richard 14:00, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Hetoum. Though I doubt that it will lead to any resolution to the problem, if you have the time you might as well take Richard's invite. Won't do any harm anyway. Meowy 01:41, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Please stop the POV
That you restored the following: "Throughout the discussion he behaved himself in a defensive and condescending manner." to Justin McCarthy (American historian) proves POV pushing and therefore I have no choice but to keep a more watchful eye in the future. I'm not defending Mr. McCarthy, but an encyclopedia is not a place for personal opinion. Stevie is the man! Talk &bull; Work 13:48, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Kings of Cilicia
Your recent moves were against naming conventions. I am reverting the moves and renamings. Srnec 22:57, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand. I would encourage these spellings and all alternate numberings to be put in the articles, preferrably towards the top, but Anglicisation of first names and a consistent numbering are typical of English-language sources. Also, convention dictates that monarchs be titled "[First Name] [Numeral] of [State]" to remove any ambiguity. Srnec 00:45, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Please do not comment on the accuracy/inaccuracy of transliterations, that's not the job of Wikipedia. Besides, Hethum is pronounced the same as Hetoum by most educated Anglophones, I assure you. And why are you moving them back? Leave them at their English titles. Srnec 00:54, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Hethum is innacurate latinization of Armenian, and is not used. Proper names are Hetoum, Het'oum, Het'um and Latin version is Haiton or Gaiton, but NO book uses it, look up google books.Hetoum I 00:57, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * But books are not the only scholarly sources. A quick search at JSTOR (scholarly journals) reveals 20 hits. Srnec 00:59, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I mean scholarly books, JSTOR has little content related to Cilician Armenia. Bedoukians system has pretty much been adopted since 60's to 80's http://books.google.com/books?id=tlgRqLA0EHsC&pg=PA43&dq=cilician+armenia+mamluk+war&as_brr=3&sig=3zHpAm-TOQnx-TXELEvgtlz074U#PPA3,M1Hetoum I 01:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I got results for Hethum at googlebooks, but regardless, Constantine and Leo are legitimate Anglicisations. And Thoros is common. Srnec 01:03, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * So include them as alternate spellings, I am not against it, but primary spelling should be accurate Armenian version as per Bedoukian. I respect other spellings should be included, but Thoros is awful, it makes it sound like Thor god of lighting or something. Romanization of Armenian would be T'oros.Hetoum I 01:06, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not all these names need transliterating, since English versions already exist. I give preeminence to English versions. Your POV about Thoros is not pertinent, since the name is related to the Greek "Theodoros". Bedoukian is not the sole arbiter of English spellings of Armenian names. Srnec 01:07, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This issue must be brought forward on a discussion page and other editors involved, since I am unwilling to accept "Gosdantin" and "Levon" where the English names are so commonplace. Srnec 01:09, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, Armenianized versions of names are used see Marshall Bagramyan article. His name is Hovhannes and not John. It is not a point of view, but how things are done. Similarly, islamic rulers named Yaqub are not called Jacob in articles. Hetoum I 01:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That's because they are not called Jacob by English speakers or writers. Ever. And modern persons are called by their names w/o Anglicisation. This is not the case for monarchs and historical personages. What is a point of view is your take on "Thoros". Srnec 01:17, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * And Lusignan is not a surname and should not be used as such. Srnec 01:18, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Same with the name solomon. We dont say Solomon the Magnificent for ottoman sultan. There are names of the Armenian kings modern english writers use. Take this turkish site about cilician armenia:

http://mehmeteti.150m.com/armenians/index.htm

My spelling used. Bedoukian wrote in english, and this is pretty standart. His system is dominant. I have no problems including other names, but these versions should be first.

Toros is best way to spell it. If you romanize the armenian it would be T'oros, and if you pronounce using the romanization table that is what it will sound like. take a look at the romanization article.Hetoum I 01:23, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * When you say "best way to spell it", that POV, b/c I disagree. I too think all versions should appear, but the Anglicisations deserve prominence. Srnec 01:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Take a look at Turkish articles and other material. It is ALL according localization. Before you start bugging me with your POV stuff see how far you get changing the name of Suleyman the Magnificent to Solomon the Magnificent, Sultan Mehmed II to Sultan Muhammad II, Stefan Uros to Stephen Uros, and so forth. Because you are unfamiliar with those spellings, doesnt mean everyone else is.Hetoum I 01:37, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't care about Hetoum, Toros, etc. if the proper style is used. But Leo and Constantine are English names that appear that way every time I've encountered them in English sourcse. Srnec 01:43, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry you have not encountered enough then. I can suggest some books for you to read if you like.Hetoum I 01:48, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I have had this type of argument with other people here too many times. You are Armenian, no? I know Armenians. Nice people, but I do not expect them, any more than Italians, Québecois, Serbs, or a host of others to be unbiased about their homelands. I suspect that you just want to see names that are more "familiar" to you as an Armenian. (I may be wrong.) I want names that are familiar to me as a native Anglophone, and I think that I have the better argument, considering this is an English Wikipedia. Srnec 01:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I am Eastern Armenian, if you were to use my spelling the name of the king would be Kostandin or Costandin. The name Gosdantin is a Western Armenian equivalent, a bit odd sounding for me really to pronounce a G when reading a K by eastern dialect. It has since become commonly used, especially in scholarly publication. As I said, this is a sticky issue and spellings vary, but Bedoukians can be considered authorative. I think Constantine is wrong because there is no n in the Armenian version. I am sure in contemporary papal documents the names in latin texts including french and italian would have been constantine or Leo, but it really does make sense to directly translate from Armenian. You can use other equivalents, I am pretty free about that, but Western Armenian proper spelling is this and should go first.

Armenians also do not use same spelling in other situations to be more familiar. For example the ancient Armenian kingdom of Sophene is not referred to as Kingdom of Dzopk by Bedoukian, but sophene. Hetoum I 02:03, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Scottish uses "Causantin" and Sardinian uses "Goantine", but see Constantine II of Scotland and Constantine II of Cagliari. Note that there was argument (I was involved) concerning the use of "Causantin" in the body text. Constantine is not wrong, it's just English. What do Armenians call Constantine the Great, Constantinus (in their alphabet)? Srnec 02:29, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Causantin is the title and is used in the article. I see no point you are trying to make. I am sorry every name is not the way that you want it. Feel free to add latinized version to the article, but title should accurately be ROUPEN - GOSDANTIN - TOROS - LEVON - HETOUM - SMPAD. I see no point of continuing this conversation.Hetoum I 02:51, 25 August 2007 (UTC)