User talk:HickoryOughtShirt?4/Archives/2020/November

Forgive me, Father...
... for I have sinned. Two and a half years later, David Bauer (ice hockey) is updated. God Bless, rest in peace Reverend Father. Flibirigit (talk) 09:00, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 * , Good job. The only other God quote I know would be "As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 14:25, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 * - I fixed a typo, but probably would pass GAN with no bother. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:34, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It's not really a quote, rather the start of a confessional. That is all I remember, Father. Flibirigit (talk) 16:17, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 * , I think I honestly thought that was a movie/tv show thing, similar to having Drivers Ed in school (which I learned is actually common in the USA). HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 17:54, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I forgive you for not being up to date on Catholicism. I will say 12 Hail Marys on your behalf. Flibirigit (talk) 18:39, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Can you think any suggestions here, Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 18:15, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Edits to "Jennifer Homans" page
Hi! I'm responding to your message about my edits to the "Jennifer Homans" page. I made the edits because the page contained factually incorrect statements (as well as grammatical errors). For example, Homans was born in 1960, not 1948; nor is her book "Apollo's Angels" a novel (it is nonfiction). I understand your concern, but since the page now contains inaccuracies again, I would appreciate it if you could restore my edits. In future, I'll make sure to add a note detailing any problems I have fixed. Thank you! -- Kolobok — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ya kolobok (talk • contribs) 22:40, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – November 2020
News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2020).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg John M Wolfson
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Bduke • Nilfanion • Philosopher • Rspeer • Yunshui

Interface administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Ragesoss
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg TonyBallioni

CheckUser changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg EdJohnston • Oshwah • Yamla
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Yunshui

Oversight changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Anarchyte
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Yunshui

Guideline and policy news
 * Community sanctions now authorize administrators to place under indefinite semiprotection any article on a beauty pageant, or biography of a person known as a beauty pageant contestant, which has been edited by a sockpuppet account or logged-out sockpuppet, to be logged at WP:GS/PAGEANT.

Technical news
 * Sysops will once again be able to view the deleted history of JS/CSS pages; this was restricted to interface administrators when that group was introduced.
 * Twinkle's block module now includes the ability to note the specific case when applying a discretionary sanctions block and/or template.
 * Sysops will be able to use Special:CreateLocalAccount to create a local account for a global user that is prevented from auto-creation locally (such as by a filter or range block). Administrators that are not sure if such a creation is appropriate should contact a checkuser.

Arbitration
 * The 2020 Arbitration Committee Elections process has begun. Eligible editors will be able to nominate themselves as candidates from November 8 through November 17. The voting period will run from November 23 through December 6.
 * The Anti-harassment RfC has concluded with a summary of the feedback provided.

Miscellaneous
 * A reminder that standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for all edits about, and all pages related to post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people. (American Politics 2 Arbitration case).

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:51, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 November 2020
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Another hockey article...
It only took over a year, but I finally completed Earl Dawson. My brain needs a rest now. Anything stand out for a DYK? Thanks in advance. Flibirigit (talk) 01:33, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , Here ya go. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 02:03, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * ...that Earl Dawson established a council to reverse the decline of hockey in rural Manitoba?
 * ...that Earl Dawson believed any 18 years old was twice as clever as a member of the 28th Manitoba Legislature was at 18? (this one is a bit clunky and can be reworded)
 * ...that in the 1970s, Earl Dawson withdrew the Canadian national team from international competitions against European hockey teams?


 * Thanks. We were thinking along the same lines on this one. Btw, Category:Use Canadian English from November 2020 is a hidden maintenance category similar to Category:Use Canadian English from October 2020. It had just hadn't been created yet. Flibirigit (talk) 04:06, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

WikiCup 2020 November newsletter
The 2020 WikiCup has come to an end, with the final round going down to the wire. Our new Champion is, the runner-up last year, who was closely followed by. In the final round, Lee achieved 4 FAs and 30 GAs, mostly on cue sport topics, while Gog achieved 3 FAs and 15 GAs, mostly on important battles and wars, which earned him a high number of bonus points. was in third place with 4 FAs and 8 GAs on football topics, with close behind with 19 GAs and 16 DYK's, his interest being the buildings of New York.

The other finalists were, , and. The final round was very productive, and besides 15 FAs, contestants achieved 75 FAC reviews, 88 GAs and 108 GAN reviews. Altogether, Wikipedia has benefited greatly from the activities of WikiCup competitors all through the contest. Well done everyone!

All those who reached the final will receive awards and the following special awards will be made, based on high performance in particular areas of content creation. So that the finalists do not have an undue advantage, these prizes are awarded to the competitor who scored the highest in any particular field in a single round, or in the event of a tie, to the overall leader in this field.


 * wins the featured article prize, for a total of 14 FAs during the course of the competition.
 * win the featured list prize, for 5 FLs in round 4.
 * wins the featured picture prize, for 3 FPs in round 3 and 5 overall.
 * wins the featured article reviewer prize, for 23 FAC reviews in round 5.
 * wins the good article prize, for 45 GAs in round 2 and 113 overall.
 * wins the topic prize, for 33 articles in good topics in round 2.
 * wins the good article reviewer prize, for 100 good article reviews in round 2.
 * wins the DYK prize, for 22 Did you know articles in round 4 and 94 overall.
 * wins the ITN prize, for 63 In the news articles in round 4 and 136 overall.

Next year's competition will begin on 1 January. You are invited to sign up to participate; the WikiCup is open to all Wikipedians, both novices and experienced editors, and we hope to see you all in the 2021 competition. Until then, it only remains to once again congratulate our worthy winners, and thank all participants for their involvement! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Godot13, Sturmvogel 66, Vanamonde and Cwmhiraeth MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:37, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!
 Happy First Edit Day! Have a very happy first edit anniversary!

From the Birthday Committee, CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:04, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for review
Hi, Just wanted to understand if the submission is new and he (Amish) is all over the news on multiple channels what all things you need to consider a valid listing of the individual. I have tried adding the links for the Olympic site too.

Kindly suggest — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thehelpingengineer (talk • contribs) 14:36, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * hello and welcome to Wikipedia. The issue is you’ve provided no references. Wikipedia relies on references to prove validity and reliability of the information. The onus and burden is on you to provide those references. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 16:07, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Added "Followed the Constitution" and was deleted for copyright infringement?
Who are you? I reviewed content that was obviously misleading and added that Emily Murphy "followed the constitution." As a Canadian, you must know little of the United States constitution.
 * Hi and welcome to Wikipedia. Both  and I have reverted your efforts to push a point of view onto Murphy's article. As can be seen here, your view has been largely rejected and, furthermore, has nothing to do with the constitution. Please do not push conspiracy theories on Wikipedia. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 13:39, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, I am unsure where you are getting this copyright infringement information from.HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 13:42, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Contested deletion of Ibilola Amao
Hello kindly elaborate on the deletion of the above mentioned page.IT is an article in an ongoing project Decolonising the Internet with its focus on Gender inequality due to less visibility of African Women a joint partnership between Goethe Institute and Wikimedia Foundation kindly highlight why it is ambiguous? and if it has broken any rule or policy upheld by Wikipedia. I also suggest that when a previously written article of same subject has been in contention the issues raised should be brought to the notice of a new editor so as to maximize time and resources. A response or action is appreciated Thank you--Zend2020 (talk) 23:01, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi and welcome to Wikipedia. I appreciate your efforts to close the gender gap on Wikipedia but adding promotional articles is not helpful. From what I can see, this article was moved to draft twice so you had many opportunities to maximize time and resources. If you check out other articles on Wikipedia, they won't use language like Dr Amao is a leading voice or Ibilola is at the forefront of promoting the use of technology. I have written many articles about successful women without using promotional language. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 00:01, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your response .Kindly go over my message again, it was moved to draft twice when? was i the contributor or the editor ? If you feel language in one or two lines are promotional that automatically qualifies the whole article for deletion? I had already said i started this write up without prior knowledge of its existence or its been flagged for deletion. I am a new editor and had a couple of stints on different issues one of which is the issue of promotional language where it was removed by the Administrator who clearly said why ie The language is promotional as against ambiguous and not the whole article thrown out .I also had articles not deemed fit yet to be published movde to draftspace it will be kinder if you appreciate my efforts more by examining it on a case to case basis and not bulk batched to an article i had no knowledge or input in. Thank you--Zend2020 (talk) 01:14, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi and I appreciate your concerns. May I suggest starting in draft next time since it seems every version of this article has been promotional and has a doozy of a deletion history? Even as an experienced editor, I usually start in a sandbox before posting. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 01:17, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , I can restore the article to draft space if you wish. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 01:19, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

You could. Thank you--Zend2020 (talk) 01:30, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Okay will keep that in mind

Thank you--Zend2020 (talk) 01:51, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of User talk:Cluevest


A tag has been placed on User talk:Cluevest, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and FAQ/Organizations for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the. —moonythedwarf (Braden N.) 13:48, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * They need TP access revoked btw. —moonythedwarf (Braden N.) 13:55, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Why was the DJ Suede article deleted
I couldn't find the information about this musician on Wikipedia and was surprised. This person has been profiled in rolling stone magazine, surely just explaining who he is is not promotional? There was at least one Wikipedia article which already made reference to the person. Can't it just be verified and balanced instead? If there's anything unduly positive I wrote I'm happy for the offending section to be deleted. Thomas Anneinde (talk) 02:00, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi and welcome to Wikipedia. It is possible for someone to be mentioned on Wikipedia and still not qualify for an article. If this is the article you are referring to, interviews don't tend to count towards notability as they are WP:PRIMARY. You would need at least three in-depth, independent, significant coverage of this person for it to even have a chance as being accepted. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 02:04, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

This is a person profiled in Rolling Stone and featured in GQ, The Atlantic and Vulture magazine, and a listed artist on the BBC and listed with a top ten hit on Billboard. Thomas Anneinde (talk) 04:36, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , yet none of this was mentioned in the article. Please re-read what I wrote above and re-write it in a neutral manner. Once again, interviews don't tend to count towards notability as they are WP:PRIMARY. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 04:46, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Well you asked and I answered. I gave 3 examples or more because I was only just told it would be necessary. I'm happy to rewrite in a neutral manner if someone would answer my earlier question, what was not neutral in the original? At worst i said highly viewed about a musician with a recent billboard top 10 with 70 million views on YouTube. I'm happy to leave out the one slightly desirable fact of high viewership if you wish, but only because the sourcing would be primary, not because its non neutral, its just a statement of fact. I'm happy to delete anything promotional if you tell me what is promotional like I asked.

Thomas Anneinde (talk) 05:37, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

You said rewrite in a neutral manner. Please say what was not neutral in the original. Whatever you have that is not neutral I'm happy to remove or balance if you can answer. It was basic biographical information. Generally an article about anyone who's worthy of an article in Wikipedia will have information about the things that made them noteworthy, if it's an artist it would include reference to their works. Thomas Anneinde (talk) 12:51, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey Thomas Anneinde, thanks for being patient. I was busy with real life and didn't have a chance to respond. Promotionalism in Wikipedia is not necessarily written for pay---people frequently write promotional articles on things they admire. And the promotional style is so pervasive that even a good-faith editor can without specifically intending to, write a promotional article. If you check out other YouTube articles, they are not written like the one you wrote. DJ Suede is responsible for multiple highly viewed YouTube videos no other article is written like this. I may be behind on "current famous YouTubers" but James Charles (internet personality) and Jeffree Star (who likely have more "highly viewed YouTube videos") do not list this as so. To then list said videos was deemed promotional by me.
 * Similarily, the other two edits by yourself at that time were both about Suede. One was an unsourced addition to the article about Paula White talking about the remix of her sermon and an edit to your talk page about referring to the remix of White's sermon by Suede. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 23:20, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

The hockey dentist
I just finished writing W. F. Taylor. What do you find interesting for a DYK hook? Thanks in advance. Flibirigit (talk) 22:42, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , I think you should also conclude the Dick Irvin story. It ends with and waited for a decision by the trustees but we never see the trustees decision. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 00:28, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * ....that W. F. Taylor determined the 1915 Allan Cup playoffs format by having names drawn out of a hat?
 * The Dick Irvin situation is what led to formation of a national body to prevent such problems again. I will play around with the wording later tonight or tomorrow. Flibirigit (talk) 00:41, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , maybe add Frank Boucher to your list? HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 03:04, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late reply. I made updates to W. F. Taylor to shorten the story and bypass Dick Irvin for the sake of completeness. I also submitted Template:Did you know nominations/W. F. Taylor and it has already been reviewed. Frank Boucher is on my to do list, but he's a very low priority at this time. If you want to edit him, go ahead! Flibirigit (talk) 03:56, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , I think I'll return to Marguerite Norris and try to get her to GA standards. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 04:40, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Judith Sweet
— Maile (talk) 00:02, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Women's Ice Hockey Task Force this month
– Spitzmauskc (talk) 03:05, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

McConnell is refusing to acknowledge the results of the 2020 election.
Why do you think he is not refusing to acknowledge the results of the election? I am confused. He accepts HIS results but disputes Trumps results. What about that is not factual?
 * Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. On Wikipedia, all content must follow our neutral point of view policy. Edits such as this directly violate said policy. If you cannot edit in a way that is neutral even with those you disagree with, your time here will be short. I suggest taking a break from American politics as they are very closely watched and intense. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 08:12, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * What I am trying to say is wait. Wikipedia isn't a newspaper, I am unsure if including information that can change at any moment is worthwhile. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 08:41, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Nothere? -- Deep fried okra ( talk ) 08:57, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , I don’t get that vibe right now. The election is probably driving emotions really high and my response wasn’t the best. I am forever grateful to be a Canadian. I’m willing to wait it out but thanks for checking in . HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 09:01, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * They're pissed off and want to punish McConnell and Murphy, so maybe at this exact moment they're NOTHERE, but they may calm down after they sleep on it. And yes I have for a while now wistfully wondered what life would be like if my ancestors had decided on Canada. Or New Zealand. Really any country that no one hates and where there's a high level of social trust. —valereee (talk) 11:47, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That’s a fair assessment although their other edits aren’t much better either (but not block able)., fun fact! My family came through Ellis Island and somehow got into Canada....we’re not exactly sure how HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 11:52, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * "I knew I should have taken a left at Albequerque Newark..." GeneralNotability (talk) 13:25, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Science Teacher 339 (talk) 18:13, 10 November 2020 (UTC)The problem as I see it is that by refusing to allow edits that are in fact truthful, you are enabling the liars to spread their lies. The election is over. Trump lost. McConnell is claiming to have won a fair election, while denying Trump lost a fair election. Either we wait and do not update McConnell's page to say he was reelected in 2020 or we accept the facts that McConnell AND Biden won. How long are we supposed to wait? Really. How long?

I agree that McConnell could change his mind and accept Trump's loss. Is that the problem you are having? So the wording could be changed to something like McConnell refused to accept the outcome of the 2020 election for days. (then update it to weeks or months)
 * Hi, yes my issue is in regards to the wording. For example, Muphy's article says When Joe Biden was generally acknowledged on November 6, 2020 to have won the November 2020 election, Murphy refused to sign a letter allowing Biden's transition team to formally begin work and access federal agencies and transition funds; this came as Trump refused to acknowledge Biden's victory. This is very different from the content you added which was McConnell refused to acknoledge Joseph Biden's clear win and Donald Trump's obvious loss in the 2020 election, while still claiming victory in his own 2020 election.. The use of terms like clear and obvious appeared to me to violate Wikipedia neutral point of view policy. Instead of using days or weeks, a simple statement similar to Murphy would be more appropriate. I would like to add that while I am Canadian, I am on your side and absolutely believe Biden has won. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 18:21, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Fixing ping. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 18:22, 10 November 2020 (UTC)Science Teacher 339 (talk) 18:30, 10 November 2020 (UTC) Thank You for explaining.

While McConnell accepted his own victory in 2020, he refused to acknowledge Biden's victory during the same election. Is that OK? I know it can change again.
 * Much better, thank you for understanding. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 18:46, 10 November 2020 (UTC) Science Teacher 339 (talk) 04:55, 11 November 2020 (UTC) Thank YOU for your patience and understanding! I really appreciate your explanation.

Science Teacher 339 (talk) 06:24, 18 November 2020 (UTC) THIS IS A LITTLE OFF TOPIC - SORRY I was thinking of this edit for Murphy. Do you think it is objective enough to be OK?

When Joe Biden was generally acknowledged on November 7, 2020, to have won the November 2020 United States presidential election, Murphy refused to sign a letter allowing Biden's transition team to formally begin work and access federal agencies and transition funds; this came as Trump refused to acknowledge Biden's victory. By refusing to allow the Biden administration transition to proceed, she prevented the incoming administration from obtaining office space, performing background checks on prospective Cabinet nominees, accessing COVID-19 vaccine information, and accessing classified information which might be needed to respond to emergencies that the administration confronts when in office. Meanwhile, she was looking for new employment for 2021.
 * What was added? Just Meanwhile, she was looking for new employment for 2021.? HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 16:54, 18 November 2020 (UTC)Science Teacher 339 (talk) 22:40, 18 November 2020 (UTC) "accessing COVID-19 vaccine information," and the meanwhile sentence.
 * , Okay, I think the vaccine is fine but I would leave out the new employment as, isn't everyone who was part of the Trump campaign? HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 23:00, 18 November 2020 (UTC)Science Teacher 339 (talk) 23:27, 18 November 2020 (UTC) OK, I just it shows that she on one level accepts Trump lost, while professionally denying it.

October 2020 GAN Backlog drive

 * , Thanks buddy! Can I ask what you meant with the edit summary "New town"? HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 16:04, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Erm, you can ask, but your guess is as good as mine! I was going for 'new section' but must have missed three letters... and added two... Easy mistake to make, right? I wish it was making a clever reference or something, but I'm afraid it was just one of my many errors. Sorry to disappoint . Thanks for all the work you do, and stay safe. Best wishes, Eddie891 Talk Work 16:09, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Marianne Ignace
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Cloudwater Brew Co
Hi there, thanks for the DYK review. I've proposed an ALT, it's quite similar to the original but have added that they are the only British brewery to make the list. Like I've said on there, if it's not quite catchy enough to make the front page then so be it! Cheers, BigDom (talk) 17:38, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , thanks for the ALT. I just felt the first one was a little promotional but I like your second one better. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 23:20, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi again, the hooks were rejected by the promoting admin for being too promotional. I've added another ALT about the brewery's name if you wouldn't mind having another look please. (They tried to ping you but spelled your name wrong, I've fixed it now!) Cheers, BigDom (talk) 08:19, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * thanks for the ping. So is ALT2 a go? HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 17:44, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I think Yoninah is just waiting for your sign-off as the original reviewer, so if you're happy with the new angle then yeah, good to go! BigDom (talk) 17:46, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 17:48, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Great, thank you! BigDom (talk) 17:49, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Adwoa
I am Adwoa and this should be my wiki page. This page should be based on me...not Sahar. Also my age is wrong. It is July 14. Also, the article is not necessary on this page. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thetruth20201 (talk • contribs) 05:11, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. Would you mind verifying your identity through OTRS? We have had cases where people pretend to be celebrities in order to defame etc. them. You can submit an e-mail request to the Volunteer Response Team system asking them to privately verify your identity. The e-mail addresses for such requests are listed at OTRS noticeboard. They will open an OTRS ticket, explain to you what sort of information they need and, once your identity is verified, somebody from the OTRS team will post a note about this on your talk page. Note, however, that Wikipedia has specific rules in regards to article subjects and you should follow WP:COI guidelines. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 05:18, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

December with Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:42, 26 November 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

The Signpost: 29 November 2020
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:45, 29 November 2020 (UTC)