User talk:Hig Hertenfleurst

Hi Hig,

Regarding soccer referees "adding time on"...

Strictly speaking, the referee does add on time, rather than merely "stop the clock". Refer to the old wording of Law 5, and also the wording of FIFA documents regarding the annotation of timing for goals scored during this time (ie if scored in 4th minute of the five minutes of time added on, it is written as "scored by nn in 94+ minute", not as "in 89th minute").

This is a very common area of misunderstaning, particularly amongsth North Americans it seems??

Cheers, --DaveB 08:42, 31 May 2004 (UTC)


 * Dave,


 * I'm a referee. I do not add time onto anything.  The official match clock is my watch.  I do not add time onto it.  I stop it.  FIFA are using the total time that players are on the field, rather than the actual time being played by the watch.


 * It does *look* like we're adding time on, but we don't, say, use the backup watch to time stoppages and then let the main watch run past 45:00 or 0:00 that far before blowing for time (needlessly complicated). *That* would be adding time on.


 * The old wording of the LOAF has precisely nothing to do with anything, either. Currently, Law 7 states:

Allowance is made in either period for all time lost through:

* substitution(s) * assessment of injury to players * removal of injured players from the field of play for treatment * wasting time * any other cause


 * The allowance for time lost is at the discretion of the referee.


 * Now, as I read it, that doesn't refer to adding time on, it refers to making lost time up. I did put this question to my referees' society (among our members is FIFA assistant referee Phil Sharp) a while ago out of interest (and a lack of things to discuss in the match incidents portion) and we all agreed that we don't add time.  Overly pedantic, quite probably, but it does irritate me for no good reason when I see people referring to time added on.  And what would Wikipedia be without its share of excessive pedants, anyway?  ;-)


 * Yours in sport,
 * Hig Hertenfleurst 18:18, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Hi Hig,

Likewise I am a referee, having refereed at numerous levels. This debate often arises, and there is never a shortage of views on the matter, including from FIFA referees/ARs (I have worked with my fair share!!).

My comments were based primarily on the pre-1997 rewording of the Laws stated that the referee "shall ... allow the full or agreed time adding thereto all time lost all time lost through injury or accident" (Law V).

The post-rewrite version of the Laws states that the referee should "make allowance" - allowance neither implies addition nor suspension of timing.

So I think here the pre-rewrite wording does have relevance; IFAB did not list the section as a Law change, and as mentioned already "allowance" goes neither one way nor the other.

This really is a semantic debate :-) To the best of my knowledge IFAB has not made a statement either way to clarify. Whilst the 1997 rewrite certainly made the laws a bit more user friendly, a number of things were lost or poorly explained, and this is one such instance.

Cheers, --DaveB 10:18, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It's very bad form to jump into what somebody is editing then start overwriting all thier changes. DamienG 17:38, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

Sorry. Didn't realise you were going through all of them until we clashed edits on series 3. Hig Hertenfleurst 17:56, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Well I'm going to leave it for now so finish off the ones you want to do and I'll mop-up any left on the weekend. DamienG 18:04, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

Will do. Hig Hertenfleurst 18:05, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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Nice bold update for the Football (soccer) intro paragraphs: please see my message on the talk page. I think we need to continue with some bold action to bring this page up to featured-status quality: this may involve less focus on the name issue and more focus on the game itself.

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