User talk:HistoricWarrior007/Archive 1

2008 South Ossetia War
Someone deleted an article I wrote about a terrorist attack. Now if one argues with my edits over the title, that's fine. If one deletes my unbiased, well cited post about a terrorist attack without even trying to change it or discuss it, that's not ok. So I am posting a backup here.

On October 3rd (Tskhinvali time) a terrorist attack took place in the South Ossetian capital city of Tskhinvali, where seven Russian peacekeepers were killed and seven others wounded when a car filled with explosives blew up near their base in Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia on Friday. While many countries were quick to offer Russian and Ossetian citizens condolences on the attack, the Georgian government did no such thing and blamed Russia for killing their own Peacekeepers, whom Russians consider heroes instead, saying "If provocations and tensions are in the interest of anyone, it's the Russians," Shota Utiashvili, the Interior Ministry spokesman, told the Reuters news agency. "They are doing everything not to pull troops out within the set term". The South Ossetian leader accused Georgia of State Terrorism saying "The latest terrorist attacks in South Ossetia prove that Georgia has not renounced its policy of state terrorism. We have no doubt that these terrorist acts are the work of Georgia special forces. The Russians accused the Georgians of the Terrorist Attack, citing the fact that just before the blast, the Russians arrested four Georgians and seized light firearms and two grenades, they claimed. "The cars and the detained people were escorted to Tskhinvali. During the search of one of the cars, an explosive device equivalent to some 20kg of TNT went off," a military spokesman told Interfax. The explosion caused devastation, shattering windows 350ft away and sending black smoke into the sky. The Russian Defense Ministry also views the incident "as a deliberately planned terrorist act aimed at preventing the sides from carrying out the Medvedev-Sarkozy plan," the ministry said in a statement.  The French Presidency of the European Union condemned the attack.

Hello. To me, the only issue is wording and OR- and not regarding terrorist. I shall show you the version I like: "On October 3rd (Tskhinvali time) a terrorist attack took place in the South Ossetian capital city of Tskhinvali, where seven Russian peacekeepers were killed and seven others wounded when a car filled with explosives blew up near their base in Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia on Friday. [1] While many countries were quick to offer Russian and Ossetian citizens condolences on the attack, the Georgian government did not and blamed Russia for killing their own Peacekeepers, saying "If provocations and tensions are in the interest of anyone, it's the Russians," Shota Utiashvili, the Interior Ministry spokesman, told the Reuters news agency. "They are doing everything not to pull troops out within the set term". [2] The South Ossetian leader accused Georgia of State Terrorism saying "The latest terrorist attacks in South Ossetia prove that Georgia has not renounced its policy of state terrorism. We have no doubt that these terrorist acts are the work of Georgia special forces. [3] The Russians accused the Georgians of the Terrorist Attack, claiming it was a retaliation for the arrest of four Georgians with light firearms and two grenades. "The cars and the detained people were escorted to Tskhinvali. During the search of one of the cars, an explosive device equivalent to some 20kg of TNT went off," a military spokesman told Interfax. The explosion caused devastation, shattering windows 350ft away and sent black smoke into the sky. [4] The Russian Defense Ministry also views the incident "as a deliberately planned terrorist act aimed at preventing the sides from carrying out the Medvedev-Sarkozy plan," the ministry said in a statement. [5] The French Presidency of the European Union condemned the attack. [6]"


 * It seemed fine to me.

New Article Ideas
I guesst we should make this an article. I'll see how I can help. Could you then please help me on Finnish war crimes? I wanted to write an article on war crimes of Finnish occupants of Karelia in 1941-1944, but I don't think I can make it myself. FeelSunny (talk) 07:10, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm, that would be interesting. From what I know, most of the Finnish war crimes occurred around the City of Leningrad, so that should be the main thrust of the Article. The Finns helped the Nazis blockade the city. I need to do more research on that area, e-mail a couple of professors, and see what I can get on the subject. I'll try getting back to you by monday, and then I'll let you know if I'll do it or not. I don't have too much time on my hands, and I require my articles to have a higher then Wikipedia's standard of professionalism. For instance you saw Kober, Grey Fox and to a lesser extent Xeeron going after me, but they've yet to find a severe error (wrong section and capitalization don't count, and that other edit's under mediation). However I'd first have to assess the damage done by the Finnish part of the blockade against Leningrad, both the real damage and the potential damage that would not have been done, had the Soviets not been forced to shift their troops from the Nazi front to fight off the Finns. From what I was able to gather in ten minutes of research, (and I've yet to confirm this) the Finnish high command wanted Leningrad "liquidated as a large city". The staggering hunger death toll warrants the creation of such an article, but I'm not sure how much data is available on this. So I'll get back to you by Monday, or whenever the professors get back to me.

How to change the Title from NPOV to POV, in the 2008 South Ossetia War article.
1. Have a completely clueless person, accidentally stumble upon an article, and exclaim that they cannot find the article. I mean typing in 4 extra letters, or scrolling for two pages is so tough.

2. Ignore 100 pages of discussion, because it doesn't fit your needs.

3. Propose and quickly implement the title change vote, before more editors could comment on it.

4. Begin rallying people prior to your side.

5. Be sure to place discussion after the vote, and hope people won't read it.

6. Invite biased users who ignore historical treaties to your side.

7. Ignore Relevancy, NPOV and Precedence in favor of Google Hits, that 10 CEOs can increase at will due to their sheer control of publishing massive copies.

8. Use Google Scholar, despite its lack of credibility for political issues.

9. Make up arguments that were contradicted earlier many times.

10. Try to frustrate the people opposing your votes, then report them when they get mad! (Below is an example of trying to frustrate people via name calling, see Col-chi-cum's post.)

11. If things don't go your way, accuse a fellow Wikipedian of a newbie mistake, such as cavassing, and lie in your accusation. Then argue to subtract a number of votes, for "justice".

(I'll expand this as the "debate" expands.)

12. Unbelievable. It finally ended, and now we can move on with the article.

Current vote against this change:

"""[edit] 2008 South Ossetia war

[edit] Support

Extremely strong support HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 21:43, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Support for now (Igny (talk) 16:57, 7 March 2009 (UTC))

Support -- Offliner (talk) 18:19, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Strong Support --Life is like a box of chocolates (talk) 23:57, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Support - the war was centred around South Ossetia although Abkhazia was also important. I think it is precise enough Alex Bakharev (talk) 00:41, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Support – unambiguous, concrete, precise. --Zlerman (talk) 01:23, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Support, this title is accurate and does not paint aggressors. --Tavrian 02:58, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Support, neutral title easy to understand. --ellol (talk) 05:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Support: defines the place unambiguously. NVO (talk) 11:18, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Strong support -- unambigous. Supported by medias. The place denotates the conflict perfectly. There are no argues about order of naming the conflict sides. Another advantage is this is a perfectly neutral option. FeelSunny (talk) 12:41, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

The only option offered that is not misleading, biased, or a neologism. –Black Falcon (Talk) 20:18, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Support as per Zlerman and FeelSunny --Russavia Dialogue 04:24, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Strong support per FeelSunny and Black Falcon. --ETST (talk) 14:41, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Strong support This is not the appropriate name as more parties and territories were involved however it is the best way for the reader to find the article --XChile (talk) 17:14, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Support The best of the options in my opinion. Not perfect, but at least it acknowledges that this was a war about South Ossetia and it doesn't push a POV about who the aggressor was. LokiiT (talk) 01:40, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Support: there was no official declaration of war, so I would rather call it 2008 South Ossetia conflict, but this gives a better context than the alternatives. -- Wesha (talk) 05:09, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Weak support Taamu (talk) 13:04, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Oppose

Oppose --Xeeron (talk) 17:37, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose --KoberTalk 18:29, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose --Staberinde (talk) 21:25, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose – Närking (talk) 21:45, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose.Biophys (talk) 04:12, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose.Geagea (talk) 09:41, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose the war/ conflict took place in regions other than S Ossetia, such as Gori, Tbilisi, Abkhazia, black sea and other parts of Georgia. Ijanderson (talk) 02:23, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose A very vague name; hardly recognizable by outsiders. --Darwish (talk) 03:03, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose, per Ijanderson. Martintg (talk) 06:39, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose The war was not confined to South Ossetia, it involved Abkhazia as well. I oppose the canvassing campaign by HystoricWanker007. Colchicum (talk) 09:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

'''You gotta read the thread, it is HILARIOUS! ''' Make your vote count, vote for what you feel is right! Also an interesting trend: all users in favor of changing the name to anti-Russian POV, just happen to be from countries where media is rabidly anti-Russian. Must be sheer coincidence.


 * So after failing, user Kober is at it again! He wants to change it again! Just sad!

And So the Title Wars End
Or so I hope. If not, I'm going to start playing Allies and Axis.

This section is to be treated as archived, until I figure out how to archive it. Please don't edit in it.

 * Alright I figured it out! Thank you ETST! HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 20:51, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Russia: Other Points of View
A tag has been placed on Russia: Other Points of View requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for web content. You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. ArglebargleIV (talk) 01:14, 9 November 2009 (UTC)