User talk:Historychecked

UFO Files
The spin off series UFO Hunters is not BASED on the "UFO Hunters" episode of UFO Files. They have two different production companies. If you're going to claim such then you need to verify it with a legitimate source such as the producer's own words. The "UFO Hunters" episode is about classic UFO investigators and their work: Alan J. Hynek, James MacDonald, Stanton Friedman, Bruce Maccabee and other researchers. The guys from UFO Hunters (Bill Birnes and crew) don't even appear or are mentioned in that episode, and they're series is unrelated. Only the name is the same, and to claim otherwise is misleading. It is simply a series that followed on a similar subject: investigating UFOs. So "check" your "history", Historychecked. Cyberia23 (talk) 18:29, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Consider it checked. The two different production companies are Weller/Grossman Productions (producers of the original UFO FILES: UFO Hunters episode among others) and Motion Pictures (who also produced the other episodes as well as the UFO Hunters series). My information is based on the original press release that came DIRECTLY from the History Channel, and posted on their website stated " "a spinoff from the network's hit program 'UFO Hunters' which premiered in 2005." The clips that they originally advertised were all from the episode UFO HUNTERS and in fact the stills that were used were all from the original UFO HUNTERS episode.  The introduction still used on the main page of the history channel website was from the first 2 minutes of the UFO FILES: UFO Hunters episode (from the Bob Wood story).

Once there was footage from the actual series UFO HUNTERS, these were replaced, but in the words of the History Channel at the time, UFO HUNTERS (the series) was "a spinoff from the network's hit program 'UFO Hunters' which premiered in 2005."

You can find a little more detail about that on this site: http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/history-and-sci-fi-channels-debut-dueling-ufo-hunters-on-feb-6-6453.php

...but you can enter this phrase in google ("a spinoff from the network's hit program 'UFO Hunters' which premiered in 2005") and see the almost 60 links to sites that copied the quote from the History Channel website. If you have an issue with this, please take it up with The History Channel. These are the facts as expressed by the network that aired both of them, and that is what I am posting it.

Hope this helps explain a little bit of the history involved.

Refs and links
I can tell by your editing skill that you're a newbie here at Wikipedia, but you seem to be totally missing the point of what I was saying above. You appeared to add a claim to the UFO Files article that the TV show UFO Hunters was "named after," or "based on" that single episode of UFO Files called "UFO Hunters," and I said that is not accurate which is why I deleted it. Then you come back with a claim that UFO Hunters as a series is a "Spin-off" of the UFO Files series, but FYI, that claim was already stated in the article before you even started editing it! I know because I put it there oh so many months ago, so I have no idea why you're trying to prove that fact now.

So yes, UFO Hunters the series, is a spin-off of UFO Files the series, but UFO Hunters is not necessarily based solely on the "UFO Hunters" episode from UFO Files in particular - and that is what I was trying to say. The reason is because the two series have different production companies (as you already seem to know), that were commissioned by History Channel to make the two shows.

Now, also the reference link you added to the article for that "Spin-off" statement: "Dueling UFO Hunters" has nothing to do with that statement, and I deleted it. The "Dueling" article you linked to is about the day History Channel's UFO Hunters premiered; at the same time, Sci-Fi Channel (now SyFy) just so happened to air their own similarly-titled UFO Hunters which was made by the producers of Ghost Hunters and on the same night and at the same exact time! Sci-Fi's UFO Hunters was a complete bomb however, and it never made it past the first episode. Plus, History also filed a lawsuit the next day against Sci-Fi to pull the show, saying they owned the named "UFO Hunters."

It didn't matter anyway, as Sci-Fi already canned their show because the pilot ended up with crappy ratings and reviews, but for the record, History's UFO Hunters was supposed to be called UFO Road Trip. I remember the promos for it, but last minute when Sci-Fi began promoting their UFO Hunters, History ran out and changed the name to match and copyrighted it before Sci-Fi did. Kind of a lowballing move, but that's business I guess. So that's what that article you reffed was about.

Understand waht I'm saying now? Cyberia23 (talk) 19:47, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

You really are not reading their press release properly. It says UFO HUNTERS (the series) "a spinoff from the network's hit program 'UFO Hunters' which premiered in 2005." Let me walk you through that sentence. It is a 'spin off' of the 'UFO HUNTERS' program... NOT of UFO FILES and that is a DIRECT LIFT FROM THE PRESS RELEASE FROM THE HISTORY CHANNEL, which is the ultimate source for this. Regardless of how you feel, the facts are the facts and there is not any wiggle room on this. This could not be more plain to anyone, but for some reason you are not getting it. Yes they are two very different series, and from different production companies and were very different in tone, etc. Several of the same writer/producers worked on both, but they were two different shows... the only thing I am pointing out, which you seem to keep ignoring is that the History Channel promoted it as a spin off of UFO Hunters and not of UFO FILES. If you have an issue with this, take it up with the History Channel, but until you actually read what they put out in their press release, you are going to continue to get this wrong. Sorry. Hope I cleared it up for you now, so hopefully there won't be any more issues with this.

To accommodate you, I've posted a blend of what you've written so this doesn't continue on. What the page now reads is "Although they are two very different shows in style and content, before the UFO Hunters show began airing, The History Channel promoted the UFO Hunters series as "a spinoff from the network's hit program 'UFO Hunters' which premiered in 2005." This should solve your issue with this and be as factual as possible.  Hope that helps you.

Whatever
Okay, fine, I see what you/and they (meaning this "realitytvworld.com" article), are saying – but unless you just have to have it in the article, it seems redundant to mention under UFO Files. Rather, this should be detailed in the UFO Hunters article itself as it pertains more to that series. Simply mentioning UFO Hunters is a spin-off of UFO Files is good enough.

I added the info instead to UFO Hunters.

I don't have a time machine, so I can't go back and verify this myself, but if I remember correctly, a few episodes of UFO Files were once stand-alone special documentary programs that were later lumped together into one show. So I think that is what "realitytvworld.com" is saying in their article here,, that the episode "UFO Hunters" was once a stand-alone "program" that UFO Hunters is based on in name and theme. (I didn't see the single program though as a being "hit" as they put it, but whatever). So if it was a stand-alone documentary, then their statement makes sense, if not, then it doesn't because it sounds like they should have said it was an episode of UFO Files in that case. I thought at first it was a typo, as it was saying to me "UFO Hunters" was a spin-off of "UFO Hunters" – and how can a show be spin-off of itself? (and the fact UFO Hunters the show premiered in 2008, not 2005).

Also, I hope you see a formatting pattern here: a show's name should be italicized by adding two apostrophes to both sides of the name: example, Showname gives you Showname.

Episode names get "quotemarks" per the Wikipedia Manual of Style. Cyberia23 (talk) 02:36, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification about the style. Here is a link to the actual press release from the History Channel (it is on the History Channel's official UFO Hunter's facebook page).

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=10628861342&topic=4771

or here on flickr with a link to the facebook page from 3 years ago: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thehistorychannel/2200673954/

or it is quoted here from 3 years ago (with a contest from The History Channel): http://broadwayworld.com/article/Win_UFO_Hunters_Prize_Pack_from_The_History_Channel_20080130

or quoted here from 3 years ago: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080128222501AAbrrK4

or it is quoted here from 3 years ago: http://www.monstersandcritics.com/smallscreen/news/article_1388893.php/UFO_HUNTERS_on_The_History_Channel

It is even in the original promo for the series ("UFO HUNTERS, a spin off of our hit show." not 'hit series'): http://www.trailercodes.com/tv/ufo-hunters/series-promo

There are many other examples, but the first one is the actual press release and it is on the official History Channel UFO Hunter's page, so you should link it to that. The others are just proof that the text is accurate.

As it is written now on the wikipedia UFO Hunters page, it is not accurate. UFO Hunters was never a stand alone episode and was always considered to be part of the UFO FILES series. There are a few episodes that were specials or repackages (I think "Kecksburg UFO" is an example or an episode that was repackaged to be a UFO FILES episode and "UFOs in the 70's" is a slapped together version of two different episodes of UFO FILES), but UFO Hunters (the episode) was always intended to be part of the UFO Files series from the time it was pitched to the time it aired. It is the History Channel that has hyped it as a special, but that is probably because of the way it was received at the time in the UFO community. Please fix the page on UFO Hunters to reflect this. It should quote the History Channel press release saying "The series is a spinoff from the network’s hit program “UFO HUNTERS” which premiered in 2005." They were two very different shows with a different style, etc. They shared the same name, many of the same experts and a few of the same producers/writers. The new information that you post should cite the link to the press release from their official facebook page as well. Hope this clears up the misunderstanding and makes it as accurate as possible.

Do you have a personal link to UFO FILES or to the UFO Hunter series? I assume you do since you are so diligent about this.

Possible explanation
Quoting the statement again - "The series is a spinoff from the network’s hit program “UFO HUNTERS” which premiered in 2005." - Honestly I have no idea why they are saying UFO Hunters is a spin-off of UFO Hunters. It doesn't make sense to me. I think they meant to say spinoff of “UFO FILES” instead. A typo on their part that everyone ran with.

I only know of "UFO Hunters" (the 2005 UFO Files episode), the 2007 UFO Hunters series, and the pilot episode Sci-Fi tried to make that completely failed. If there is another series out there called UFO Hunters from 2005, I must have missed it. If so, where is it?

The only other way I can explain it was that in 2005 they possibly aired the pilot episode of UFO Hunters the series, which may have been the "hit" show they were referring to, and in 2007 History green-lighted the series to follow. They did this with Life After People, How the Earth Was Made and Ancient Aliens. Those three shows all started off as a single stand-alone documentary which got good ratings enough to have a continuing series based on them.

Anyway I can't find the original "pilot" episode unless it was just integrated into the series as episode #101, the first episode of first season "The UFO Before Roswell". Anyway that's the only thing I have to explain the confusion here. It added even more confusion because UFO Files may have aired their episode with the same name that same year. However, to make thing even more complicated, I know that not all the dates listed for the episodes on the UFO Files article are correct. When I first made that list I went by TV.com's dates, only to find places like iMDB and TV Guide listed different dates. SO who is correct? I have no idea - it's all screwed up, especially when some of those episodes weren't originally UFO Files episodes.

I remember for sure, that the three "UFOs, Then and Now?" episodes were once their own mini-series. In fact, they have their own entry at iMDB and they were made in 2000 and reformatted in 2004 for UFO Files. The UFO Hunters episode of UFO Files may have been made before 2005 for all I know. Maybe if you watch the episode again you can catch the copyright line at the end which would show the date maybe.

So, in answer to your last question, most of the UFO Files and UFO Hunters episodes are up on YouTube.com and can be watched there.

Anyway, for now, I'd just say in both articles that UFO Files was simply followed by UFO Hunters. I took the words "spin-off" completely out. if you're cool with this, then we should leave it at that. Cyberia23 (talk) 17:16, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Here is the history for you. I hope this helps.

UFO FILES started out as a series. The History Channel hired two different companies (Motion Pictures and Weller/Grossman Productions) to both create content for the series. I think the first episodes to air were “UFOs in the Bible”, “When UFOs Arrive” and “UFO Hotspots”... all 3 done by W/G Productions. As the series continued to air, both companies created their own episodes with slightly different styles/content. The episodes done by W/G productions are "UFO Hot Spots", "When UFOs Arrive", "UFOs in the Bible", "Cattle Mutilations", "The Gray's Agenda", "China's Roswell", "UFO Hunters", "UFOs and the White House", "Texas' Roswell", "Hangar 18: The UFO Warehouse", and "Alien Encounters". Many of the other episodes were created by Motion Pictures with the exception of those that were repackaged from other companies. The break out episode was "UFO Hunters" which got a lot of attention and was written up quite a bit. UFO Hunters showcased many investigators (Ted Phillips, Stanton Friedman, Bob White, John Scheussler, Bruce Maccabee, Dr. Roger Leir, etc.) who were all experts in the field of UFOLOGY. The ratings on it were very good and it became the break out episode that the network had wanted. Around the time that it aired, Bill Birnes (publisher of UFO magazine and expert who had been used on many episodes of the series) pitched a show that was about a team of UFO investigators who looked into many of the biggest cases out there. As I recall, the idea may have come from his wife and one of the people who ended up on the UFO Hunters series (I think it was Pat but I don’t recall the specifics). Their idea may not have been influenced directly by that episode, but the History Channel wanted a way to capitalize on the success of UFO Hunters (the episode) and named the series UFO Hunters. Their press release was not a typo, in fact it was a very deliberate way of linking the two shows and trying to capitalize on it's success. I hope you understand that there was nothing mistaken about the History Channel trying to link the two. In fact, when they first put it up on the History Channel website to promote their upcoming project, it has links to 6 different clips to show everyone what the new series would be like. All 6 clips were from the UFO Hunters episode so they were deliberately trying to link the two. The advertising and the promotion were all trying to show a direct link between the two and to build on the good will and reputation of that episode. In fact, the advertising for the page that promoted the series for the first time was a photo of an actress (Michele Van Wagner) in a shot from the first two minutes of the UFO Hunters episode. Until they had actual footage of the new series, almost every detail they used to advertise it was from the UFO Hunters episode or mentioned the episode. This was not a mistake or an error. The History Channel knew it had a way to bring in the audience that enjoyed that episode and they did everything they could to use that to their advantage. The links between the two shows didn’t stop there. Eventually UFO Hunters (the series) interviewed practically every expert from the UFO Hunters episode and investigated many of the stories in the UFO Hunters episode (Socorro, Bob White, etc.) and they eventually used some of the producers/writers from the UFO Hunters episode as well, so there is a lot of crossover between the two. I hope this explains it to you in the best way possible. I understand that you are trying to maintain both pages as accurately as possible, but what I have explained to you is the complete story of how this series and the spin off were created. What I have previously typed on the wiki page has been accurate, and I hope we can now find the wording that would make us both happy with the description. I think it is important for the truth to be listed on the page and we shouldn't use speculation or assume that they made a mistake in their press release.

The wording should read:

“Although they are two very different shows in style and format, before the UFO Hunters show began airing, The History Channel promoted the UFO Hunters series as "a spinoff from the network's hit program 'UFO Hunters' which premiered in 2005." (with a link to the press release from the facebook page). What are your thoughts? I know you want this to be as accurate as possible, so what would you change?

I would also put something similar on the UFO FILES page, but I’d put it after the description of the UFO Hunters episode, and not at the top.

Let’s find some mutually agreeable way of stating this so that we are not both checking it every day trying to make it accurate. As it is written now, it is not correct. I think the solution above is the best way to honestly explain the history of these two shows. What do you think?

As I asked before, what is your connection to these shows? Are you a fan or did you do some work on either of them?


 * I would say, if you're going to add the statement to indicate that the "UFO Hunters" program that inspired the UFO Hunters series, was originally an episode of UFO Files, just to be clear about it. As you word it it sounds like UFO Hunters spun off itself or perhaps there was a stand-alone pilot (like the other shows I mentioned). You should be clear about where it came from.


 * A couple of things; you should avoid saying "Although they are two very different shows in style and format" because that sounds like a personal opinion, refer to NPOV to maintain a neutral tone, as to some people, one UFO show is the same as another. Calling it the "the network's hit program" should also be avoided - regardless of how the referenced source states it. Some consider it an attempt at hype or "weasel wording" as they all it.


 * I would say something like; "Based on the success of the UFO Files episode "UFO Hunters", the History Channel green lighted the UFO Hunters spin-off series." or something to that effect.


 * Another thing is you cannot reference a Facebook page. Many at Wikipedia consider them unreliable sources, even if it is the "official Facebook page" or not. If you add a FB reference, an automated bot will come by and eventually delete it unless someone else does it first. The independent media review reference should be good enough, like that one from realitytvworld.com.


 * Like I said, I don't think it's even worth mentioning to begin with, but if you're adamant about it, then go ahead and add it, I won't argue about it anymore.


 * In answer to your question, I'm just a fan of the show. Cyberia23 (talk) 20:04, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I've posted the information, but I don't know how to properly cite it. Can you help me in that department? It sounds like you know a lot about this and I am very new at it. Thank you.

May 2012
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