User talk:Hockeyben/Archive 2

Nomination of Chagos Islands National Championship for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Chagos Islands National Championship is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Chagos Islands National Championship until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Postoronniy-13 (talk) 19:01, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Real links, please
At 1995–96 Eliteserien season and elsewhere, most of the hockey team names don't actually point to the team. They often point to the city the team's from, or nowhere at all. Geschichte (talk) 12:57, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of 1990–91 Yugoslav Ice Hockey League season for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 1990–91 Yugoslav Ice Hockey League season is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/1990–91 Yugoslav Ice Hockey League season until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Rich wales (talk · contribs) 19:02, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Eredivisie seasons
Thanks for all the great work you're doing on Eredivisie seasons (and Oberliga, etc.). Do you think that some new categories are needed to hold these? I'm not sure how best to proceed with that, in a way that would fit in well with the existing NHL seasons categories. Got plans for that already? Gurt Posh (talk) 14:57, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Hmm... I've not been creating new categories for the seasons, but using existing cats (ex: 19xx in ice hockey), so I'm not sure whether new categories or needed, or not. -- Hockeyben ✉ 15:00, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I was thinking of perhaps creating:
 * Category:Eredivisie (ice hockey) seasons as a child category of Category:Seasons in ice hockey by league
 * Category:Oberliga seasons as a child category of Category:German ice hockey league seasons, which is itself a child of Category:Seasons in ice hockey by league.
 * That way readers can browse all the seasons by league, as well as by year. Does that sound useful? Gurt Posh (talk) 15:07, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it does. The only problem is that there are a ton of articles to add the cats to. Suggestions? -- Hockeyben ✉ 15:08, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Autopedia
Ok. Btw, did you guys get all the spam removed? And how do I switch to Monobook? Here's a link to all the missed news if you want to help.

http://automobile.wikia.com/wiki/User:Aldrich.uyliong/missed_news

-Red marquis (talk) 16:24, 2 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure the spam is gone, but not 100% certain. To switch to monobook, go to your preferences (Special:Preferences), and the scroll down to "site layouts", check the "MonoBook" tab, and press save. Your skin should then be changed to Monobook. As for the car updates, I'm more than happy to help, but I just need to get my jeep pages/images back, so give me a couple days. What is your account on Wikia going to be? -- Hockeyben ✉ 16:27, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Korean Championship (ice hockey)
Where did you get the information for this page? Whatever these are, they aren't the top level Championships in Korea. The top level Championships are the Korea Domestic Championships which will be in their 65th year this year .--Crossmr (talk) 23:43, 8 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi. Your thinking of the All-Korea Championship. The Korean Championship started in 1993, the All-Korea Championship in 1945. -- Hockeyben ✉ 01:30, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It still isn't the top level Championship in Korea. In addition, other wikis cannot be sources on this wiki, they fail WP:RS. It is also not referred to is the "All Korea Championship, it is in fact referred to in English as the Korea Domestic Championship as indicated in the source, which is also a translation of the Korean name. You haven't even provided any sources for this "Korea Championship" nor evidence that it is the top level tournament in Korea.--Crossmr (talk) 04:28, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * And as you'd note the term "All-Korea Championship" is less common according to google, and doesn't seem to appear in any reliable sources at all. It's a term made-up for wikis, probably as an extension of the All-Japan championship. . As such I'm moving the article.--Crossmr (talk) 04:47, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Further to that, I'm not even sure I can verify this other tournament even exists, however, according to this, there was another ice hockey tournament taking place which Seoktop was involved in, in 1994 which matches the article, however the news article indicates it was the 39th championship. It didn't start in 1995. This championship is either fake, or grossly inaccurate. I'd ask you to ensure that any articles you are creating are in compliance with WP:V, and WP:RS.--Crossmr (talk) 06:01, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


 * If you take a look at the champions in the All-Korea Championship versus the Korean Championship, there is quite a difference. The 2001-02 Korean Championship winner according to HockeyArchives in Halla Winia. The 2001-02 All-Korea Championship winner was Korea University.-- Hockeyben ✉ 14:45, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * HockeyArchives is not a valid source...you should probably stop using it for information. -DJSasso (talk) 16:48, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


 * And why is it not a valid source, may I ask? -- Hockeyben ✉ 16:50, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Because it fails WP:RS. I would also recommend you stop creating articles that are just statistics because that is against WP:NOTSTATS. You need to also write stuff in actual words and talk about the season or else its just an indiscriminate collection of statistics. -DJSasso (talk) 16:53, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It is as reliable as the RSSF, which is used for every single football article on en.wp. Also, there are lots of standings pages for many sports without long descriptions of the season. For example, 1987 Dhivehi League. -- Hockeyben ✉ 16:56, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know much about that site so I can't speak to it. As for stating that there are others like that, just because one is bad doesn't mean they all should be. Technically they can all be deleted if they don't have any prose in them. I just thought I would warn you now so you could add prose to the new ones you create so that you don't eventually see one day a few hundred deletions of your pages because there is no information except statistics on them. Soccer is a very bad example to live up to, its known across the wiki as having very poor standards for a number of things. The hockey project attempts to be better. -DJSasso (talk) 16:58, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The example I listed is one among thousands. At least 1/2 of the standings articles on en.wp don't have much prose. It seems this wikipedia has take all sorts of stances to keep content from being added, this being one of them.-- Hockeyben ✉ 17:00, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Well yes because as I linked to earlier we are not an indiscriminate collection of information. Only the most notable is supposed to get added. Statistics with no context attached to them is just a jumble of numbers basically. There are other wikis that are more lenient for example the ice hockey wiki where they allow anything as long as its hockey. But this wiki is very serious about notability and not just being a dump of everything an anything. That is what sports almanac sites are for, this is an encyclopedia. :) -DJSasso (talk) 17:04, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, I understand that. The thing is, the not stats guideline has generally not been enforced, if the league is notable, then the league season is notable. Generally, the afd's on football articles without much context have been kept. Finally, these articles are all found on other language wikipedia's as well, I want the English Wikipedia to be as strong as the German/French/Czech wikipedias. etc. -- Hockeyben ✉ 17:09, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Strong is a matter of opinion, many look at some of those wikis and think about them being pretty poor wikis because they don't keep up the same article standards that they should be. You are right that it isn't often enforced. I was just making a note of warning to you so that you wouldn't be upset if they did get enforced. You are welcome to continue on doing what you are doing. But at the rate you are creating them I could see someone getting upset soon enough and go on a deleting spree and I would hate to see that. -DJSasso (talk) 17:15, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry for not getting back to you earlier. Thanks for the heads-up regarding the amount of context. For any future articles I create, I will add a short description of the season, and info on the champion/promoted/relegated teams. As for the NOTSTATS being enforced, the articles would have to be deleted via afd, not unilaterally deleted. -- Hockeyben ✉ 17:44, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh I did mean via afd. However I could see a case could being made for some of them to fall under some speedy criteria A1, A3 & A7 for example. I wouldn't do it cause it would be too much hassle but there are those that would. -DJSasso (talk) 17:55, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, you won't have to worry about that with any new articles I create. I'll make a concerted effort to include some more context. And I hope nobody tries to get the others deleted. -- Hockeyben ✉ 17:59, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem is I can find no actual evidence of a Korean championship that started in 1992. I can find another hockey tournament referred to with a word meaning "Division" or "Divisional", but its only around 10-12 years behind the Korean Domestic Championship and in it's 50th year or so, and it's not the top level tournament in the country, and the winners seem to match what you've called the Korean Championship--Crossmr (talk) 23:59, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Further, you had incorrect information on the Korea Domestic Championship. The 2000 winner were not the Dongwan dreams but Halla Winia.--Crossmr (talk) 00:18, 10 September 2011 (UTC)


 * You seem to know quite a bit about Korean hockey, feel free to make any necessary changes to the Korean Championship articles. :)-- Hockeyben ✉ 00:41, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * As I suggested, please ensure any information you use to create articles or add to them is compliant with WP:RS and WP:V. I haven't even looked at the rest of it, but what you've used to base the editing you've done on Korea on just doesn't seem remotely correct at all.--Crossmr (talk) 00:55, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Don't you list that you know some french? This is listing 4 different tournaments and then listing the cumulative records for each team across those 4 tournaments. The article you've created is basically a hoax as it's not based on a real championship. At this point I'm taking this to the wikiproject hockey talk, because I've pissed away an inane amount of hours trying to figure out what this is. I'm also redirecting the article.--Crossmr (talk) 01:24, 10 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Just fine that you redirected the article. I obviously made some mistakes with Korea, which I apologize for. -- Hockeyben ✉ 01:44, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Lokomotiv Yaroslavl
You probably know all about the Lokomotiv Yaroslavl plane crash already. &mdash; RHaworth 10:46, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have. A horrible day for ice hockey caps a horrible summer on the whole. -- Hockeyben ✉ 14:46, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Vorony Sumy for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Vorony Sumy is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Vorony Sumy until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Львівське (talk) 02:31, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of HC Kharkiv


The article HC Kharkiv has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * not notable, no sources, info is wrong and not worth cleaning up...

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

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Proposed deletion of Dnipro Kherson


The article Dnipro Kherson has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * not notable, no sources, info is wrong and not worth cleaning up...

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Proposed deletion of HC Odessa


The article HC Odessa has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * not notable, no sources, info is wrong and not worth cleaning up...

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Львівське (talk) 02:32, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Legion Simferopol


The article Legion Simferopol has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * not notable, no sources, info is wrong and not worth cleaning up...

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

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Proposed deletion of Patriot Vinnytsia


The article Patriot Vinnytsia has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * not notable, no sources, info is wrong and not worth cleaning up...

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Львівське (talk) 02:33, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of VIM-Berkut


The article VIM-Berkut has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * not notable, no sources, info is wrong and not worth cleaning up...

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Львівське (talk) 02:33, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Yavir


The article Yavir has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * not notable, no sources, info is wrong and not worth cleaning up...

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Львівське (talk) 02:34, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of HC Lutsk


The article HC Lutsk has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * not notable, no sources, info is wrong and not worth cleaning up...

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

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Proposed deletion of Vatra Ivano-Frankivsk


The article Vatra Ivano-Frankivsk has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * not notable, no sources, info is wrong and not worth cleaning up...

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

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Proposed deletion of Olympiya Kalush


The article Olympiya Kalush has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * not notable, no sources, info is wrong and not worth cleaning up...

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Львівське (talk) 02:34, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Those prods...
I FOUND THEM! Most are in the Western Ukrainian Hockey League now....which I can confirm is an amateur league. What's your take?--Львівське (talk) 17:36, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The articles could also be expanded to include info on their days since joining the Western Ukrainian League. I'm still not sure if they're notable, or not. -- Hockeyben  ✉ 17:47, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Well if amateur teams like this qualify under the WP guidelines, then I'm all for it.--Львівське (talk) 20:42, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


 * If at some point, they have played in the highest league in the country, they are notable, be it amateur or professional. -- Hockeyben ✉ 20:44, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * If thats the case, only teams that played in the Central Division / Division A / Major League should count, right? Though on the flip side, even these lower teams qualified for the Ukrainian Championship playoffs.--Львівське (talk) 21:09, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Divisions B & C were still part of the ukhl in 08-09. So they do qualify. Hockeyben ✉ 21:13, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Those were "lower" leagues where teams got promoted out of (like HC Donbass) or relegated in to.--Львівське (talk) 21:15, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Your call whether they should be kept then. -- Hockeyben ✉ 21:17, 17 September 2011 (UTC)