User talk:Holderca1/Archive 3

Page move debate opinions needed
Hi, user DIV (a chemical engineer), i.e. User talk:128.250.204.118, and myself (a chemical engineer) have been debating over the name of the Gibbs free energy article for seven months now. DIV is demanding that both the Gibbs free energy and Helmholtz free energy articles be moved to “Gibbs energy” and “Helmholtz energy” per IUPAC definitions, and is continuously rewriting all the related articles in Wikipedia on this view. According to my opinion, as well as others, e.g. 2002 encyclopedia Britannica, 2006 encyclopedia Encarta, 2004 Oxford Dictionary of Chemistry, 2005 Barnes & Noble’s The Essential Dictionary of Science, the 2004 McGraw-Hill Concise Encyclopedia of Chemistry, Eric Weissteins World of Physics: Gibbs Free Energy, etc., Gibbs free energy and Helmholtz free energy are the most common usages. If you have an opinion on this issue could you please comment here. Thanks: --Sadi Carnot 19:55, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

SD Shields issue
Hi, Could you take a look as the SD shields? I imported new ones to fix the size and remove the lines but now the 2D shields somehow inherited a black box over the most significant digit. I looked at the structure of the svg, but have no clue why that black box shows. :-Z

The 3d shields imported perfectly fine.

I'm going to try to some other options - 3 minutes later, now both of the numbers are being covered up at times. I give up! (for now)

can you let me know what I'm doing wrong? Thanks

I edit/create using Inkscape - and uploaded them using "the Commonist". --•  master_son  Lets talk  16:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC) UPDATE: I went through a bit of it - it seems like those black boxes may be text objects that are stray somewhere, but I looked at the svg markup and couldn't find any obvious ones. I rebuilt most of them and they mostly uploaded fine, but there are still some issues. some showing in the completion list with the blocks and others showing in my gallery with the blocks - but not vice-versa. --•  master_son  Lets talk  15:48, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

An update - the black boxes were definitely leftover text nodes that got mixed into the shuffle. They're all gone now. But I am fixing the files on my end to make sure it doesn't happen again. There are still bugs in the image translations that will be notice if you visit the South Dakota [|redirect list] and some of the actual highway articles in Wikipedia. but the Commons has no issues with the stray black boxes (there are some that are also showing the old image with the lines in the list - but all of those were flushed out too.

In addition - I'm going through each image and getting rid of the Illustrator crap that was tacked on. That takes the size of each file from some 203 kB to 24 kB avg. what a waste of file space :| •  master_son  Lets talk  01:05, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The image thumbnails that still showed the unrendered text blocks have been completely flushed out. The images are working correctly now •   master_son  Lets talk  20:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello
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 * ~t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m~*

U.S. Roads Newsletter Issue #1

 * Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here. Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 20:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Interstate 410
Just FYI, I have uploaded a new map of Interstate 410 image:I-410_map.svg. It's a little cleaner, holds better to the established colors, and has shields. 25or6to4 12:34, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Lists of highways in X County Texas
I took the liberty upon myself to jump in and start this. I've done my home county List of highways in Liberty County, Texas (no pun intended. eh...maybe it was, heh) and was wondering if that what you had in mind, or were you prefering something as to like State Highway Loops lists with mileage perhaps and year of commsision, perhaps section of county (North, NW, Central, ect) or community/city? Guide me in what you feel is best for the project, give me a template of how you would like this organized and I will use it as I work to populate the lists for other counties in the area. I could take it in whatever direction I wanted, but I know the lists need to be uniform in setup. Thanks. Feedloadr 23:55, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

U.S. Roads Newsletter Issue #2

 * Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here.

Apologies for the late delivery. Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 05:30, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Atascosa County
I will make up a road map for Atascosa county, but I won't be able to get to it until Saturday probably. Just FYI. 25or6to4 22:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Atascosa County road map finished. I inserted it on your test page.  Let me know what you think.  BTW, you missed a shield for one FM highway, #3510.  25or6to4 06:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, I have updated the map with the requests you made. The original map had FM signs at 25px, now they are at 40 px.  Had to add a few arrow pointers, but everything looks OK so far.  Next, Freeloadr made Liberty County, and I'd like to make a map for that page, too.  Can you make up the remaining signs for us?  Thanks!  25or6to4 14:35, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

USRD Newsletter - Issue 3

 * Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here.

Active user verification
Hello,. Due to the high number of inactive users at WP:USRD, we are asking that you verify that you are still an active contributor of the project. To do so, please add an asterisk (*) after your name on WikiProject U.S. Roads/Newsletter/List. Users without one by the next issue in 2 weeks will be removed off the list and off the respective road projects as well. If you have any questions, please contact me on my talk page. Thanks. Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 22:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Template:Infobox IN State Road
I sent it to WP:TFD because it was never used, and unnecessary. Also, when all the articles are brought up to standards, they will be calling Infobox road, like Indiana State Road 5.  V 6 0  VTalk · VDemolitions 22:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Notice !!!
Hello. This is just a notice that I have posted a comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball regarding the formatting for the game logs for the 2007 Major League Baseball season pages. The deadline is two weeks from today, on March 28. Please voice your opinion over there. All the necessary information may be found on the Project's talk page. Any questions that you may have may be asked at my talk page. Ksy92003 talk · contribs  23:21, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Shields
Just so you know, I'm going to be working on Louisiana state highway shields, hopefully getting a complete set done by the end of the week. Unfortunately, Image:Louisiana 31.svg uploaded with an extra path, so my first batch is a bust, but it shouldn't set me back too far.

And don't ask me why, because I don't know. *wink* -- NORTH talk 08:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Second try was a charm. Should be complete through 110 at the moment.  More to come. -- NORTH talk 08:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it should be good fun. The reason why is that I saw the sorry state of affairs at Louisiana Highway 888, with the junction list using SVG shields that may or may not exist, and the rest of the infobox using PNG shields that may or may not exist. -- NORTH talk 17:25, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * That's cool. I was going to take care of the infoboxes after I got the rest of the shields up – that way nothing's lost if a route has a PNG but no SVG yet – but it shouldn't take too long, so it doesn't matter.
 * Rather than creating a Louisiana WikiProject, I was thinking it might be a good idea to create a WikiProject for all the state highways that don't have their own. That way, we can standardize everything in the meantime while we wait for demand to increase for a separate wikiproject.  I'll probably propose it on WT:USRD once I finish the LA shield images and the NJ infoboxes. -- NORTH talk 19:31, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Then what is USRD for? As stated on the project page, it explicitly states "To some extent, standardizing the state highway articles for which a WP does not exist yet."  USRD already does just that.  We do not need the new WikiProject.  If you guys do propose it, be prepared to be shot down.  V 6 0  VTalk ·  VDemolitions 02:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Then to what extent do we need any state WikiProject? How does WP:USRD provide any guidelines for creating state highway articles the way WP:NJSCR does? -- NORTH talk 02:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * IMHO, state projects that are currently inactive shouldn't exist as standalone projects. USRD does provide a structure; however, it is through the subproject template and not the main project page. There's nothing stopping anyone from copying the structure from the template to the project page, though. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 02:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, to further explain, here is an excerpt from an IRC conversation:

 TwinsMetsFan: since every project should follow the subproject template, why not make a structure on USRD and then reserve the state pages for tweaks to that structure? vishwin60: dunno vishwin60: every project is different vishwin60: especially MD TwinsMetsFan: that's why if we really want to have consistency, and shut the others up at the same time, we should put a skeleton up TwinsMetsFan: and let states warp it however they want TwinsMetsFan: within reason vishwin60: good idea vishwin60: that would emphasize the statement "To some extent, standardizing the state highway articles for which a WP does not exist yet." TwinsMetsFan: exactly TwinsMetsFan: USRD is no longer a shell parent - we need to emphasize that vishwin60: true TwinsMetsFan: we are on the verge of massive changes, and all that remains is for someone to budge or say something before i spring it on them TwinsMetsFan: after all, imho, the line between "consensus" and "be bold" is becoming very blurry vishwin60: oh yeah, from very recent discussions TwinsMetsFan: right TwinsMetsFan: between people who read policies like the Bible and others who want to discuss adding a period to the end of a sentence, consensus and being bold is not matching up TwinsMetsFan: the policy freaks don't have consensus but they do it anyway TwinsMetsFan: the discussion lovers inhibit boldness by demanding consensus vishwin60: so then IAR could be invoked??? TwinsMetsFan: based on everything we presented in the newsletter last week, we're almost to that point vishwin60: ignoring them? TwinsMetsFan: no, something has to be done, and if it means ignoring all rules, then so be it TwinsMetsFan: If the rules prevent you from improving or MAINTAINING Wikipedia, ignore them (emphasis mine) vishwin60: that's definite and indefinite TwinsMetsFan: right, but i think it applies in the USRD structure case TwinsMetsFan: heh, to answer North's second question, may as well use the idea i presented up above TwinsMetsFan: with the flexible structure TwinsMetsFan: er, "flexible" structure Hope that helps.  V 6 0  VTalk · VDemolitions 02:33, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * If WP:USRD can serve as this proposed state highways project, I'm all for that. In it's current state, I don't see that, but it's certainly possible that we could tweak it so it could. -- NORTH talk 02:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

'Discussion moved to WT:USRD. -- NORTH talk 02:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)'


 * Yeah, for a minute there, I forgot this was my talk page. :) --Holderca1 13:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Just so you know, my "by the end of the week" for the LA shields was a joke. (1) My weekend got busier than I expected, and (2) there were a lot more shields to make than I expected. Feel free to help out, maybe take one of the columns on List of numbered highways in Louisiana, or just choose an arbitrary range; just let me know what you're working on so we don't duplicate our efforts.

Or if you want to leave it to me, that's okay too, just don't get your hopes up on a completion date. -- NORTH talk 19:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No problem. I hope you stay, but I understand your issues, and am more than happy to pick up where you left off with Louisiana. -- NORTH talk 02:39, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I-26 Tenn shields
Oh, sorry about that. When I saw it I guess they weren't uploaded yet; it was a bunch of redlinks, which looked terrible. But that's what I was hoping would happen, nobody'd edit the article and it could just be reverted...but since it works it's all good, eh? Good lookin out. -- M PD T / C 23:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

USRD Newsletter - Issue 4

 * Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here. — --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 22:19, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your comments in the Talk pages in the US Road Project. Maybe the uhm leaders will wake up and understand that there is other people out there that disagree with them trying to run all the state projects themselves. I am not agianst having a single standard for all of the states but uhm lets do it by telling everybody that we want to do it by hitting up every user that has been editing the roads. Its getting me growing tired of their refusal to even discuss items on thier own talk pages. --Mihsfbstadium 13:43, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Interstate 10 in Florida exits
If you're going to remake the exit list for Interstate 10 in Florida, could you add the Rest Areas, Welcome Center, Weigh Stations, and the like to it as well? DanTD 15:54, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, so perhaps they should be on a separate list, like some state-specific Interstate 95 articles. DanTD 17:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

List of Farm to Market Roads in the Gulf Coast of Texas
I've been meaning to put it somewhere for others to use. The site isn't complete, and hasn't been updated since 2003 that I can tell but it has some SE Texas county lists of FM roads. Click on by County, and some Counties are linked, others aren't but have info in them, and others are empty. Or Just I've found a couple roads this guy forgot to list in multiple counties. But its better than TxDOT, and as long as it can be back with Txdot files I don't know any reason we can't use it. The link I am giving you just has all he has in his database, with the main county it travels through in parenthesis. Here's the link- http://web.wtez.net/c/g/cg63550/highways/fm/list.htm Not sure how or why I stumbled on it years ago, but I bookmarked it and once I got invovled in this, I had to go dig through my old bookmarks to find it. Wish it was more, but its helpful none the less.Feedloadr 15:40, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah I saw you had it set up going straight to the County article, and I kinda of questioned that. I figured you had a logic to it and let it be. I personally think it would be better aimed at the List of highways in County X though.Feedloadr 16:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

USRD Newsletter - Issue 5

 * Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here. —Rschen7754bot 00:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

USRD Newsletter - Issue 6

 * Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here. —Rschen7754bot 22:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Linescore#inn templates
I recently was looking at these templates, and I noticed that there are a lot of them going around which could really be combined into one template. Even more recently, someone created one for softball. What I did was make it so that one template could be used to call anywhere from 1 to 20 innings of baseball (or softball). See User:Jared/Linescore. If we wanted to implement this then all we would have to do is change all the templates that use any of the baseball templates to the template "Linescore", and the rest of the parameters should stay the same. If you can make any suggestions, please give them. Also, I'm iffy about the heading. How should we make this optional. Also, too, those two bars on the bottom are really annoying if not used! Get back to me soon! └ Jared ┘┌ talk ┐  21:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

USRD Newsletter - Issue 7

 * Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here. — Vsh Bot (t • c) 19:20, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Linescore#inn templates
The series of Linescore#inn templates has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. └ Jared ┘┌ talk ┐  15:15, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

USRD Newsletter - Issue 8

 * Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here. — Vsh Bot (t • c) 19:03, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Quick Note
I just happen to notice while borwsing at work that radiojon reverted those edits back Farm-to-market road and such. I would attempt to revert, but work is to unpredictable to get invovled in doing it (police dispatch).

Good to see you're back by the way, was wondering if you had abandonded wikipedia after noticing a good dry spell.Feedloadr 16:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Now I see you have edited since, I guess you already were aware. Oh well. None the less, good to see you back.Feedloadr 16:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Farm to Market Road 390 and the Brown Signs
Wow, didn't take long for someone to take notice of that.

The whole road was designated as a scenic route by the Texas Legislature in 1995. As a result, the entire road has brown FM shields along with a SCENIC plate (looks like an alternate or business plate) on the top which I'm trying to figure out how to make now. Transportation Code Chapter 225 Subchapter A outlines the different special roads. I'll add that as a source, I just ran out of steam last night :(

And as far as I know, it's the only officially signed scenic route in the state. And believe me, it is scenic. Amazing country up there. --Korranus 20:57, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

USRD Newsletter - Issue 9

 * Want to help on next month's newsletter? Don't want to receive these in future? Don't want it subst'd next time? – It's all here. — Vsh Bot (t • c) 16:42, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Simple Explanation
The reason I started a topic specifically dedicated to the Fangraphs issue is simple. The other one was diluted with excessive and unrelated information and interrupted with comments within comments that were often rearranged. I just want a topic that discusses the merits of an EL site without discussion of ANY editors behavior. //Tecmobowl 13:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I am just tired of this topic constantly popping up in my watchlist. As someone not being involved in the discussion, reading through I haven't seen any real progress.  I don't have any real interest either way what external links are included.  This is all trivial in my viewpoint and too much time has been wasted on it when that time could be used more constructively.  --Holderca1 13:09, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Well the easiest way to fix that is to stop watching the relevant page. For a number of reasons, WP:EL is an important topic to me.  It is pretty clear that my actions are important to other editors, so it's likely to be a hot topic for a while. //Tecmobowl 13:19, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I am not going to stop watching a project talk page for which I am a member of. It should be an important topic to everyone as well as all of our policies and guidelines.  It just seems that WP:EL, a guideline, has taken precedence over WP:Civil and WP:Consensus, which are both policies.  Policies always take precedence over guidelines.  I also have to question your actions of continuing to edit the exteral link sections while discussion is ongoing and a consensus is trying to be formed.  You have quoted WP:BOLD as your justification.  WP:BOLD is a guideline as well and takes a backseat to policies such as WP:Consensus.  While I understand that you feel you are doing the write thing, it just infuriates other editors and prevents everyone from keeping cool, not to mention whatever consensus is reached will require all these articles being changed again anyway.  So what is the harm in holding off for a little while?  I have seen the ugly side of Wikipedia.  Another project I work on, U.S. Roads had an ugly revert war about a year ago over a standard naming of the articles and it eventualy digressed to this, WP:SRNC.  We lost at least half our editors as a result and I don't want to see this get to that level. --Holderca1 13:34, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I did not mean to upset you when I suggested you stop watching the page, I was simply offering a temporary solution until this boils over. While I was gone, the Ty Cobb article and the Shoeless Joe Jackson article were both locked.  I agree with policies over guidelines. The application of the policy (WP:CON) to the guideline (WP:EL) dictates that consensus is not established by a straw poll involving 10 editors.  Consensus of the community (that is all of wikipedia), would suggesest that fangraphs has no place in a players EL section.  I appreciate your frustration (as I can assure you mine is high now), but I hope to have some intelligent discourse about the topic. //Tecmobowl 13:52, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * What part of fangraphs does not adhere to WP:EL? The only thing I have seen said is that it isn't unique, but some have said that it does have some unique information or at least unique presentation of the information.  What else about fangraphs violates WP:EL?  --Holderca1 14:05, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for trying
Thanks for trying to help out with the ridiculous dispute on the talk page at WP:WPBB. I tried interjecting some substance to the discussion a couple of weeks ago, hoping to bring people back to the issue at hand, but it has kind of spiraled out of control again. While I continue to follow the "discussion" (such as it is), I've decided that it's an issue I don't care enough about to be worth the aggravation. Unfortunately, it seems to only take a few people with strong, inflexible opinions to throw a wrench into the consensus-building process here. I can't help thinking that if some folks put as much energy into improving the actual content of articles as they do bickering back and forth about mundane, minor issues, we'd have a much, much better Wikipedia.

Thanks again for your efforts. --Sanfranman59 16:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Levy CR 24?
Where is there a Levy County Road 24? I know there's a Levy County Road 24B in Bronson. DanTD 18:32, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I actually drove down SR 24, and saw signs for Levy County Road 24B as Picnic Street, not Levy CR 24. DanTD 00:55, 26 June 2007 (UTC)