User talk:HomageToDonByas

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Hasaan
Thanks for your contributions to Hasaan Ibn Ali. Can you provide a link to the source that gives Lankford? The sources that I have seen (and cited) give Langford. How do you know that the one you mention in the census records is the correct person? EddieHugh (talk) 10:16, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi EddieHugh. You're right to question how I know that the person I cited in the 1940 Census is in fact the correct one. I ought to have given a more convincing explanation, with appropriate citations. I'll try to do so now. First, in an interview in the August 10, 2012 issue of Scoop Newspaper, Odean Pope stated Hasaan's address: "Hassan was living at 2406 Gratz Street and I was living at 2211 N. Colorado Street." (For some reason, I'm not able to access the pdf file, the URL of which I am having difficulty specifying here; you should be able to locate it by Googling the quotation I just gave. Instead, I looked at the Google cache image at http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fSDRJCAf2fkJ:www.scoopusanewspaper.com/SCOOP%2520August%252010,%25202012%2520.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us.) When Odean said "Hasaan lived at 2406 Gratz Street", he clearly meant 2406 N. Gratz Street; S. Gratz was many miles from Odean's house at 2211 N. Colorado Street, whereas Odean lived only a few blocks from Hasaan's house. ("Pope lived on Colorado Street in North Philly, near Hasaan’s residence on Gratz Street." See See http://hiddencityphila.org/2013/02/there-was-no-end-to-the-music/.) (Note also that the spelling of Hasaan's first name sometimes appears as Hassan. In my opinion, no significance attaches to this. I have found it useful when searching the Web for material relating to Hasaan to realize that both spellings are in use.)

Having established Hasaan's address in his adult years, I then searched for "2406 N Gratz" "Philadelphia" "Langford". That search returned but two results, which are essentially the same. If you look at http://www.pabulletin.com/secure/data/vol27/27-51/2066f.html and search for "2406 N Gratz", you will find "Lankford Willi 2406 N Gratz St Phila Pa 19132 520676509". Scrolling to the top of the page and clicking the "Prev" button 6 times will bring you to the heading "Notice of Names of Persons Appearing to be Owners of Abandoned and Unclaimed Property". Odean Pope told me recently that on October 24, 1980--a date Odean remembers because it was his own birthday--Hasaan's parents perished when their home burned down. If you use Google Maps to find 2406 N. Gratz Street and then look at the street view, you will see that, instead of a house, an empty lot exists between house numbers 2404 and 2408. I suspect that this has something to do with the appearance of "Lankford Willi" in the abandoned and unclaimed property notice.

My 1940 Census citation could conceivably refer to a different family since the street address given is not 2406 N. Gratz. It would be quite a coincidence if it were in fact wrong since the couple's only child is given in the census as being a 9-year-old son named William. Hasaan, born in 1931, would have been 9 in 1940, and he had no siblings. In any case, my logic doesn't depend on the Census entry.

Now I will explain why I think that the several sources for "Langford" are incorrect. Some years ago, I gave Michael Fitzgerald the birth name for Hasaan Ibn Ali as "William Henry Langford, Jr." for his website "Muslim Names in Jazz" (http://www.jazzdiscography.com/fitzgera/muslim.htm). (My name is Alan Sukoenig, and I am cited there as a contributor, though my name is not tied to a specific contribution.) My source for that was my friend David Shrier, who knew Hasaan better than I did and had visited his parents' home (Hasaan lived with them) several times. Dave told me Hasaan's birth name in conversation; I never saw it written until I myself jotted it down. I don't believe I had ever seen the name Lankford before, whereas I was familiar with the name Langford, and the pronunciation of the two spellings is nearly identical unless the speaker is making a point to differentiate them. I suspect, though I can't prove, that all the sources that cite "Langford" originate from Michael Fitzgerald's website. I may ask Odean Pope to confirm the spelling when I'm next in touch with him.

All the best,

Alan HomageToDonByas (talk) 01:18, 28 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply. I'll look into some of the details when I have time and reply again then. EddieHugh (talk) 20:53, 29 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I'd like to clear up one possible source of confusion. My claim that a search for "2406 N Gratz" "Philadelphia" "Langford" led me to a finding that the State of Pennsylvania's apparently-abandoned-and-unclaimed-property list had the name "Lankford Willi" at that address sounds like hocus-pocus. Why would searching for "Langford" yield a result of "Lankford"? This occurred because the document in question is very long and contains a large number of names; coincidentally, one of those names (at a different address) happens to be "Langford." HomageToDonByas (talk) 22:38, 29 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the lengthy delay. I've looked up a few bits. PA Bulletin Vol 27 is from 1997, which seems very late if the house burned down and they died in 1980. I've searched newspapers.com and there's no mention of their deaths around 1980 (but that is just the absence of confirmation). Could you provide a url for the 1940 census information (or a blow-by-blow account of how to get to the relevant page)?


 * Hi, Eddie. I just found your response. The URL you requested is http://www.archives.com/1940-census/william-lankford-pa-68989447. Then click "View image." The relevant lines are #1,2,and 3. As to the long time lapse between 1980 and 1997, I called 1-800-222-2046 (the number comes from the first page of the document) and was told that the property is still unclaimed. The person with whom I spoke said that he had no explanation for why the entry shows up only in the 1997 issue and in no others. I neglected to ask him when it was first posted to their records. HomageToDonByas (talk) 18:00, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm planning to put this up as a Good Article nominee, as I think that it's about the best thing readily available on Hasaan. I've therefore changed back to Langford, to comply with WP:PRIMARY, as there are non-primary sources that give that as his name. I've added a note to the article and link to this page for details of why it may be Lankford. I hope that that is ok with you; perhaps in due course an update and further account of his life will be published by someone. EddieHugh (talk) 16:43, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, Eddie. I'm glad to know that you are planning to put the Hasaan Ibn Ali article up as a Good Article nominee. I am not as familiar as you appear to be with the Wikipedia rules pertaining to primary, secondary, and tertiary sources, but it seems to me a pity to revert the spelling to Langford after the evidence I have presented for Lankford. What primary sources are you referring to that give the spelling as Langford? What I wrote here earlier about Michael Fitzgerald's "Muslim Names in Jazz" website was meant to show that the spelling there (Langford) was given to Mr. Fitzgerald by me based on my own transcription of a memory of a friend's pronunciation and was in no way definitive. That website ought not be considered a primary source, nor should any websites or other documents that used it as a source. Of course, I don't claim to know what websites or documents, if any, fall into that category, but as Mr. Fitzgerald gives August 17,2005 as the end date for the compilation of his list, the spelling shown there dates back at least that far and may very possibly been the source for other websites and documents written since then. The evidence that I adduced for "Lankford" was, according to my understanding of Wikipedia's discussion of the three types of source, a secondary, not a primary source, granted. But I suspect that it may carry more weight than the primary sources. That's why I'm eager to know specifically to what primary sources you are referring.

I'm also disappointed that you removed the Donald Bailey quotation that I added recently. Perhaps you did it inadvertently when you reverted to an earlier version. I think the quotation, well attributed, presented a fascinating and important bit of jazz history.

Best wishes, Alan HomageToDonByas (talk) 18:40, 1 July 2015 (UTC)HomageToDonByas

Hello again, Eddie. I've re-read your comment from earlier today and saw that I misread what you had stated regarding level of source. I thought, as my reply reflected, that you had written that there are primary sources for Langford. Now I see that you have said that there are non-primary sources for Langford. I take that to mean that there are no primary sources. This, I think, if anything, strengthens my argument for giving weight to the combination of (A) the 1940 U.S. Census data and (B) the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania "Notice of Names of Persons Appearing to be Owners of Abandoned and Unclaimed Property" data as providing evidence for Lankford. -Alan HomageToDonByas (talk) 19:43, 1 July 2015 (UTC)HomageToDonByas


 * Edit conflict, as I wrote the below as you were adding your update...
 * Thank you for the quick response. Primary sources are the ones best avoided if there is an alternative. I think that the census would count as a primary source. It can be frustrating for people on the inside, as you seem to be, as the policy here is all about using reliable, published sources, preferably non-primary ones. The irony is that, if you got your line of research that leads to Lankford published in a 'reliable' source, it could then be cited in the article.... Without getting into lists of policies, the principle here is that "In some areas there may be just one well-recognized point of view; in others, we describe multiple points of view, presenting each accurately and in context rather than as 'the truth' or 'the best view'. All articles must strive for verifiable accuracy, citing reliable, authoritative sources". Taking a strict line, some here would argue that Lankford should not be mentioned at all, as it is does not appear in an appropriate source and is based on original research. I think that it is worth mentioning, given the evidence trail that you present, but I don't think it would get past a GA reviewer who was checking sources if Lankford was given as the correct name when there was no 'reliable' secondary or tertiary source for that but plenty that give Langford. The footnote is, therefore, a realistic compromise.
 * Sources... from the current article: I used source 1; Langford is also used in 12, from 1989, although that states John Langford! It could be that your initial misspelling found its way into what are now regarded here as reliable sources. EddieHugh (talk) 20:31, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello again, Eddie. Thanks for explaining the logic behind your reversion to Langford. I'll attempt to get Michael Fitzgerald to change the spelling at his website by presenting him with the evidence for Lankford. As to my other point, your removal of the quotation from an interview with drummer Donald Bailey that appeared in a published book, would you mind if I were to add it back, along with the appropriate citation? You can see it in the history section, 22:25, 14 May 2015. -Alan HomageToDonByas (talk) 22:57, 1 July 2015 (UTC)HomageToDonByas
 * I can try to fit it, or a summary of it, in. The lead (opening section of the article) is a summary of the main text (the rest), so it should go in the main text. I'll need to rearrange the main text anyway, I think, as structurally it's a bit of a mess – inevitable given the lack of concrete info on him, but it can be tightened. EddieHugh (talk) 09:15, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

When you're rearranging the main text, I suggest that you change the references to "Hasaan" to read "Hasaan Ibn Ali," "Mr. Ali" or "Mr. Ibn Ali" (I don't know which form of the latter two is preferred, "Ibn" meaning "son of" and therefore at least somewhat tied to what follows it. It is also possible that the honorific is out of place in encyclopedia articles.) Although he was known familiarly by his first name to jazz musicians in Philadelphia, there are a number of Hasaans or Hassans in the jazz world. Furthermore, over-reliance on identification by his first name, of which I have been guilty, can be taken as somewhat disrespectful. (He himself referred to his mentor, Elmo Hope, as "Mr. Hope" in the interview he gave me for the liner notes of the Max Roach Trio album.) -Alan HomageToDonByas (talk) 13:21, 2 July 2015 (UTC)HomageToDonByas
 * Using "Mr." is definitely not done on Wikipedia. I assume that it is an Arabic name. A similar one is Hasan ibn Ali, which uses Hasan, but I assume that there is a specific reason for that. This source has bassist Art Taylor and saxophonist Jimmy Heath being complimentary and referring to him, separately, as Hassan, so it's still first choice in the absence of other information, as it appears to be what he was known by professionally and not regarded as disrespectful by musicians who knew him. The number of Hasaans/Hassans I think is not important, as the article is about one specific one. Using Hasaan Ibn Ali every time may be seen as pedantic, if not inaccurate for an encyclopedia. Is that reasonable? EddieHugh (talk) 14:53, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree that it would be pedantic to make all references to Hasaan Ibn Ali by repeating his full name. The question, I think, is what those references should be. I maintain that they should not be to his first name, Hasaan.

Dizzy Gillespie was and continues to be referred to frequently in conversation by his fellow musicians by his first name, as is also true of Miles Davis. Nevertheless, their professional names included the surname in each case--unlike, for example, Odetta, Sabicas, Solomon, or Midori--and their Wikipedia entries make extensive use of their surnames throughout. An attempt to read their Wikipedia articles substituting "Dizzy" for all instances of "Gillespie" and "Miles" for all instances of "Davis" sounds, to my ear, anyway, too informal and thus disrespectful, given the context. As with Gillespie and Davis, Hasaan Ibn Ali was also known to Philadelphia musicians, and to some in New York and elsewhere, by his first name (as in your Art Davis and Jimmy Heath source references), but that was not, to the best of my knowledge, his professional name (the title of his only recording, "The Max Roach Trio Featuring the Legendary Hasaan," notwithstanding, as that title was my fault, I think, the result of a sample essay I submitted to Atlantic Records that caused them to ask me to write the liner notes and, apparently, led to their choice of a name for the album).

On the question of whether his surname was Ibn Ali or Ali, I have looked at Wikipedia's "Arabic name" article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_name#Common_mistakes, where I found the following listed as a common mistake: "Taking bin or ibn for a middle name: As stated above, these words indicate the family chain. Westerns often confuse them with middle names, especially when they're written as 'Ben', as it is the case in some countries. For example, Sami Ben Ahmed would be mistakenly addressed as Mr. Ahmed. To correctly address the person, one should use Mr. Ben Ahmed."

Thus, it seems to me, that all references to Hasaan Ibn Ali by his surname should be to "Ibn Ali." (Note: The capitalization of Ibn is, I believe, unusual and non-standard. But it is in fact the way he wrote his name.)

From what I read at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Arabic#Alphabetization, though, it appears that Wikipedia would want Hasaan's name to be alphabetized under "Ali." -Alan HomageToDonByas (talk) 20:07, 2 July 2015 (UTC)HomageToDonByas


 * Fair enough: we'll go with Ibn Ali. EddieHugh (talk) 20:44, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Eddie, for all your diligent work.

Would you mind if I were to add back the following edit that I inserted in the period 30 April to 14 May? If not, where would you suggest it be placed within the revised article? Drummer Donald Bailey, in a 2008 interview with writer Don Alberts, said, "And who was [Thelonious] Monk's idol? Hasaan Ibn Ali. Nobody knows that!" ." -Alan HomageToDonByas (talk) 02:41, 3 July 2015 (UTC)HomageToDonByas
 * There are a couple of difficulties with it: what does "idol" entail? If "Nobody knows that" apart from Bailey, it doesn't count (for an encyclopedia) as anything other than Bailey's opinion, which takes us back to the first difficulty... overall, I don't think it really conveys enough meaningful content to include, to be honest. EddieHugh (talk) 17:30, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

You make a good case for excluding it, yet I think it's a pity as it's a fascinating bit of jazz history. The interview, which, by the way, can be read online at https://books.google.com/books?id=7iN_AgAAQBAJ&pg=PA120&lpg=PA120&dq=%22And+who+was+Monk's+idol%22&source=bl&ots=ADd_rZ7hhJ&sig=Kb4T9oQduSSq6HCaRCwngc2Oouk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=INeWVYv8Bcj7-AGd546gDw&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22And%20who%20was%20Monk's%20idol%22&f=false, seems to suggest that Donald Bailey was talking about a period around 1950, when Bud Powell was living in Willow Grove, a suburb of Philadelphia, and Thelonious Monk was spending time in the area, too. Hasaan would have been about 19 and Monk about 33. I can imagine that Monk, hearing for the first time young Hasaan, was bowled over by his playing and, for a time, could talk about little else. Sadly, Donald Bailey is no longer with us and cannot elaborate. I'll try to find a place other than Wikipedia to give the quotation more currency. -Alan HomageToDonByas (talk) 18:44, 3 July 2015 (UTC)HomageToDonByas

Father's records?
What do you make of this? Click on "view the document". It shows a WW2 registration card for a William Henry Lankford at (I think) the same address as in the 1940 census. Contact detail is Christina Lankford – I assume this is the Christian entered incorrectly in the census. Problems: the dates of birth are out by 2 years and the other side (?) lists this person as being white. Mysterious... EddieHugh (talk) 18:51, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Very interesting, Eddie; thanks for letting me know. I suspect that the 2-year birth date difference between the 1940 Census and the 1942 Draft Registration can be attributed to an error in one of them. I've searched unsuccessfully for Census information from 1950, 1960, and 1970; I wonder why it doesn't seem to be available. As to the info on the reverse side (or page 2) of the latter document, I think it probably belongs to a different person as the county given, in both handwriting and seal, is Del. or Delaware, not Philadelphia. Philadelphia County is coterminous with the city of Philadelphia; Delaware County is entirely outside the city. I will attempt to notify FamilySearch.org about this. -Alan
 * Thanks. That's what I guessed, although I didn't notice Delaware. From FamilySearch: "Census records are generally released to the public 72 years after enumeration. The National Archives will release the 1950 census digitally on April 2, 2022." I've searched online for death records and reports of a fire in newspapers, but nothing found. I imagine that records would need to be searched locally. EddieHugh (talk) 21:50, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Hasaan Ibn Ali again
The article is now classed as a Good Article. The review is here, with a but of a challenge included. What do you think of the idea that only someone on the ground would be able to investigate him further? EddieHugh (talk) 20:59, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Eddie. Congratulations on the Good-Article rating. The reviewer's idea that only someone on the ground would be able to investigate Hasaan further seems to me pretty much correct, but not completely so. A researcher with whom I've been in touch, working on another Philadelphia musician of the same period, recently found, when searching microfilm, the following items:

(1) From the Philadelphia Afro-American of June 18, 1949, an advertisement for an appearance at the Norris Hotel and Musical Bar, 2630-32 W. Norris Street of the Jo Jones All Stars featuring Jo Jones [presumably Philly Joe Jones] on drums, Ben Goldson [presumably Benny Golson] on saxophone, Count Langsford [presumably Hasaan Ibn Ali] on piano, and Frank Brown on drums [presumably bass]

(2) From the Philadelphia Tribune of December 17, 1949, the following article: Nasiredeen Heard in Initial Musical, by Warneal Lanier Reynolds Hall, 1416 N. Broad St. was the scene last Sunday evening of an unique musical treat which featured the initial appearance of Nasiredeen and his competent group of modern jazz exponents. These musicians are members of the Rubbaniyat Association, frequently referred to as Mohammedans. Included in the group were Nasiredeen, drums; Rashid Ali, tenor sax; Hassan Ali, piano; Luqman Syeed, bass. Local guests, sitting in on the sessions, were Clifford “Brownie” Brown, trumpet; Robert “Bettle” Fontell, alto sax and a few others. The program was highlighted by several original selections. Among the more notable were “Mood” and “In Walked Elmo” by Hassan Ibn Ali, “Basheera” by Rashib Ali named and “Fiests,” written by Calvin Massey featuring Civian Hutchinson on the vocals. The group will soon be presented in a Concert of Jazz over a local radio station.

(3) From the Chronology section of "The John Coltrane Reference," by Chris DeVito, Yasuhiro Fujioka, Wolf Schmaler, and David Wild, edited by Lewis Porter: Jo Jones and His All Stars Personnel: “Philly” Joe (aka Jo) Jones, drums; John Coltrane, tenor or alto saxophone; Percy Heath,bass; William Langford, piano [presumably Hasaan Ibn Ali] Ca. September 10, 1949 (exact dates unknown; probably one week; Coltrane’s presence not confifirmed). Ridge Point Café, Philadelphia, PA (Ridge and Columbia Avenues). “Ridge Point Cafe proudly presents Jo Jones and His All Stars / Featuring John Coltrane and his Sax; Percy Heath on bass; William Langford at Piano & Jo Jones at Drums / Music 9 –2 A. M. / Jam sessionals Monday & Thursday, 4 to 7 p. m., Saturday, 4 p. m. ’til closing / NOTE: We have just installed a Television Set for Your Pleasure. / Come and see the largest Musical Bar Uptown. Come in and try our Low Price Policy” (advertisement, Philadelphia Afro-American, Sept. 10, 1949, p. 9). Jimmy Oliver was at the Ridge Point Cafe the following week (Porter, 1998, p. 345). Although Coltrane is listed in the ad, he may have left to join Dizzy Gillespie, either before or during the gig (see the following entry)."

(4) From the Philadelphia Tribune of June 28, 1952, the second item in the "Smart Clubdom" column: "The Woodbine Club held a special meeting last Sunday at 1336 N. 12th St to make plans for a summer outing and review their social program of last spring and next season. Until there is a decided decline in patronage at the popular Saturday and Sunday cabaret soirees they will be continued. Currently featured is baritone saxist Lonnie Shaw and his unit with Danny Webster, bass; Tommy Ball, Boston, Mass., trumpet; Count Langford [presumably Hassaan Ibn Ali], piano, and Bob Henry, drums. Shaw was recently on tour with the Lionel Hampton Orchestra...."

Additionally, I found, in the book “Clifford Brown: The Life and Art of the Legendary Jazz Trumpeter,” by Nick Catalano: "Brownie’s group at the Camero Room [in Mercantile Hall at Broad and Master] included the saxophonist James Young, altoist John Joyner, pianist Hasaan Ali (Langsford), bassist Steve Davis, and drummer William 'Kali' Armstrong." This is likely from July 1949: see Fats Navarro timeline.

Conceivably more research of newspapers and documents would turn up more information.

Best wishes for a happy, healthy New Year, Alan HomageToDonByas (talk) 01:27, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

October 2017
Hello. Your recent edit to List of classical pianists appears to have added the name of a non-notable entity to a list that normally includes only notable entries. In general, a person or organization added to a list should have a pre-existing article before being added to most lists. If you wish to create such an article, please first confirm that the subject qualifies for a separate, stand-alone article according to Wikipedia's notability guideline. Thank you. Denisarona (talk) 09:37, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Boulanger student Sukoenig
Hi there, do you have a citation for Sukoenig being a Boulanger student? I did a quick search and couldn't find anything. pgbrown (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 19:54, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Pgbrown. Sidney Sukoenig was my father. Here is the requested documentation, recently published by New York NPR radio station WNYC: https://www.wnyc.org/story/sidney-sukoenig-and-rachmael-weinstock/. In addition, you will notice at the end of that reference acknowledgement to Living Musicians, compiled and edited by David Ewen and published by the H.W. Wilson Co., New York, 1940. HomageToDonByas (talk) 05:02, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Thank you - I have added the citation to the entry now. pgbrown (talk) 18:21, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:58, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Nov 15: WikiWednesday Salon + Wikimedia NYC Executive Director job
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:21, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Wed Dec 6: Hacking Night + job listing
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:43, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Thu Jan 4: Hacking Night + Wikipedia Day soon
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:08, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Thu Feb 8 NYC Hacking Night + Feb 21 WikiWednesday
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:12, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Tue March 5: Wiki Gala NYC
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:31, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

WikiNYC: 3/14 Hacking Night + 3/16 Queens Name Explorer
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:58, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

WikiWednesday (April 10) and City Tech Library LGBTQIA edit-a-thon (April 11)
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:13, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Thu April 25: WikiNYC Hacking Night
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

May 8: WikiWednesday Salon with new Executive Director
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:07, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

June 2: Hacking Sunday (+preview of June 8 Wiknic)
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:01, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Sat June 8: Governors Island Wiknic
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:37, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

June 26: ONLINE WikiWednesday Salon NYC
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:23, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Fri July 19: Wikicurious in NYC, Editing Wikipedia for Beginners
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--Wikimedia New York City Team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:50, 13 July 2024 (UTC)