User talk:Hondo pfd

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The Wikipedia tutorial is a good place to start learning about Wikipedia. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and discussion pages using four tildes, like this: &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; (the software will replace them with your signature and the date). Again, welcome! Doug Weller talk 18:05, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

I hope you aren't here just to change BCE to BC
You need to follow our guideline at WP:ERA. Doug Weller talk 18:05, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

In order to stay consistent with the context of biblical narrative or historical narrative pertaining to biblical reference, it is appropriate to use the BC - AD annotation as opposed to the BCE - CE annotation. I apologize for editing direct quotes and also applying it to recent historical reference. I didn’t reference the guidelines before doing this, however I will make sure to follow the guidelines from now on. I appreciate the consistency for contributions. Hondo pfd (talk) 04:24, 6 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The point is that it there is no one size fits all. No editor can decide that all biblical articles should be BCE/CE or BC/AD. That's true even of New Testament articles, obviously true of Old Testament articles which are based on non-Christian sources. Doug Weller  talk 07:47, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

I’m not deciding. The founding editors of modern historical timekeeping made the decision in the first millennia to adopt the BC/AD annotation over a thousand years ago. The modern generations have decided not to rewrite history, but to erase history by oppressing any type of Judeo-Christian influence and have sacrificed accuracy in order to accomplish personal preference. Your guidelines should have first been subjugated onto the first writers of these biblical articles who thought that they knew better than Bede the Venerable or Charlemagne just because you’ve decided that you can oppress Christians through subtlety of record keeping. These systems are validated through time and you abusing your authority does not make them invalid. Please consider all of this before centralizing the standards of this site and information that you make available for public use. Hondo pfd (talk) 15:03, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
 * BCE/CE was invented by a Jew, while BC/AD is off by a few years for Jesus's birth. The Christian church's use of Anno Mundi predates the widespread adoption of BC/AD by several centuries, being used by the Early Church Fathers.  All those make you just as "guilty" of "oppressing" Jewish and Christian influence on society.
 * As a brother in Christ, I recommend that you stop confusing arrogance with faith and ask yourself how much humility your post shows. Personally, I'd rather let non-Christians admit that the Christian era is the common era of history for us than force them into a blasphemously meaningless lipservice.  As a Wikipedia editor, I recommend looking over this essay on how Christianity actually benefits from our policies (if one believes Christianity is really true).  Ian.thomson (talk) 21:37, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

June 2020
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy by adding commentary and your personal analysis into articles, as you did at Tel Dan Stele, you may be blocked from editing. ''You clearly are thumbing your nose at our guidelines. Please stop.'' Doug Weller  talk 15:10, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

I give my word that I am not “thumbing my nose” at your guidelines or making light of your resource. I feel as if you are actually doing the same to me and my beliefs. My history, as well as billions of others history, is noted in the original annotation that I am trying to return your resource to. Why are you suppressing my faith? Why are you forcing your system upon mine? I am heartfelt in my effort. I am only trying to be fair and equitable to all, not just to you and your collective group of thought. I am begging you to please broaden your horizons of acceptance before writing my efforts off. Hondo pfd (talk) 17:45, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Doug isn't snubbing Christianity. You are snubbing your thumb at WP:Assume good faith, a foundational site policy.  Also, it's rather hypocritical for you to tell anyone else to broaden their horizons when you're the one refusing to accept something new.  Continued disruptive editing will result in a block.  Ian.thomson (talk) 21:39, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

It’s hypocritical for you to change record keeping that has been used for over a millennium and call yourselves purveyors of knowledge. BC/AD was adopted in the late Roman Empire and put into common use by Bede the Venerable a few centuries after. The fact that BCE/CE was invented by a person with Jewish heritage is proof of your shortsightedness. A persons heritage is different from their faith. Not to mention that the idea of an annotation being so obviously Christian, i.e. Before Christ, yet being substituted by a person without belief in the Christos of Jesus is blatantly oppressive. The only foundation for this being acceptable is if a person OF Christian faith developed a solid argument for the change in recordkeeping that we have used for a thousand years. That has yet to happen. Furthermore, defining common era still relegated itself on the birth of Jesus.....what year is it?? So to state that any time recorded before that event is BEOFRE Christ is overwhelmingly accurate. I ask you again to please stop your narrow minded and overly trained points of view and understand that this is a DE-CENTRALIZED platform. Your abuse of authority is not only inappropriate but also a form of abuse against me and fellow Christians. Hondo pfd (talk) 23:40, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
 * One more time: WP:Assume good faith is a foundational site policy. It is one of the five pillars of the site.
 * Are you going to at least acknowledge this or do you want to continue acting like you're being thrown to the lions? Ian.thomson (talk) 09:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

I will acknowledge the Good Faith assumption. But I would ask that you and Doug do the same in return. Why are people not allowed to have and express their faith anymore? Why does faith have to get taken out of every little thing, even the smallest thing such as how we keep our records of time? The argument for years has been that “religion” (which I am not digging my heels in for. I believe in faith, not religion) was the source of multiple instances of violence throughout time, however look at things nowadays. Never has there been more evidence against that argument. The lack of faith has led to these incredibly destitute and violent times. I am under the assumption that you do not share the same stance in faith as I do, please correct me if I assume wrong...however just because we don’t agree doesn’t make you right. When it comes to evidence, one only needs to look back through history. Any other argument is a theory. And theoretical study has long been different from evidentiary study. I don’t know when the lines became blurred, but I’m merely trying to provide the lenses to clear them. Passed these personal and ideological perspectives is the the fact the the only official annotation for record keeping has been the original BC/AD method. As of now that has been erased but not replaced by BCE/CE. So in that vein, you have to go off what has been. Being proleptic is what has led us here, and the stifling of my argument not only goes against what is true, but also against good faith. Hondo pfd (talk) 16:03, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Everything beyond your first sentence is a total lack of comprehension as to what is required by "assume good faith" or even "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." May the Lord be kind when He teaches you humility some day.  Ian.thomson (talk) 21:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing because it appears that you are not here to build an encyclopedia. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page:. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

I ask that you explain to me how the good faith guideline is not one sided in this scenario. Truly, I would like for you to educate me. Citing a thematic verse isn’t enough to teach me the humility that I am lacking. So I am asking that you have a discussion with me as an adult would Hondo pfd (talk) 21:49, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Pretend this is was the talk page of someone who belongs to a religion you disagree with and read it again. Maybe then you'd see how combative and haughty you've been from the beginning, and how you've refused to acknowledge this community's social contracts beyond admitting we have them (while, in action, refusing to cooperate with them). Ian.thomson (talk) 22:08, 8 June 2020 (UTC)


 * See the last message in the "I hope you aren't here just to change BCE to BC" section? Where I referred to myself as "As a brother in Christ"...?  You clearly did get that message as you made reference to a different part of the message (BCE/CE being invented by a Jewish scholar).  You are not being shut out because of your faith, you are being shut out because your reaction to any message that doesn't give you your way is to assume the worst of people and fight them.  Ian.thomson (talk) 22:08, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Wow...I actually have to admit that I didn’t see that. So I apologize and appreciate you making me aware that I missed that. And I agree with what you said. I don’t see the blasphemy behind it but I would like to educate myself more on that. With all that, I still believe that making the change in annotation to yearly record keeping is just another small way that people try to take Christ out of everyday life. Not to mention that when you read the standards for record keeping, nowhere does it make mention of it needing to be changed to Common Era. All being said, what I am saying is that if you are choosing to live a life that is dead to all but Christ, then passively relying on others to see is not what we are called to do. By no means am I trying to pick a fight but neither am I willing to walk away from one when it comes to Gospel. Meek does not mean incapable, but disciplined enough to stand firm. If you as a brother of Christ believe that the secular world is not constantly trying to lessen the word in this world then I would have to disagree with you, but much more respectfully. Also, I stand on my appeal based on the what I have already said, and have to ask that you look again into what is acceptable and what is not. Why are you more capable of noting annotation that the past millennia? Not to mention you yourself said that you prefer to wait and let people see their own errors. Which in itself shows that you agree with me. So stand firm, be strong and be a man. But most importantly do all things in Love. And allowing others to be blind when you can show them their error by not being passive is true love. If you truly follow scripture then you already know this. Hondo pfd (talk) 22:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)


 * You've made it clear that you are here, at least in part, to right great wrongs as we say. Although you have every right to your beliefs, Wikipedia is not the place for you to enforce them. Doug Weller  talk 09:17, 9 June 2020 (UTC)