User talk:Horologium/July 2007

To Tell the Truth
Thanks, I'll get to work on it. :) Still a newbie at this stuff... FamicomJL 03:08, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Quick Change
I just noticed that you had those Coral Springs accolades listed already in the history section. When I went to undo my change, you had done it already. You're pretty quick! I think that those awards are quite important, and it'd be nice if anyone briefly looking at the article would see them. Perhaps we can make an accolades section. I think those three impressive awards justify it.

Peer Review
Hey Horologium, how are you? Would it be ok with you if I ask for a peer review of CS and WC in their respective projects? I don't want to step on your toes.--Legionarius 15:17, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with either, but in the case of Coral Springs, it just went through GA review six days ago, so it might be a little too soon. But I don't have an issue with it, so go for it. BTW, William Cooley is still awaiting a peer review from the WikiProject Florida group, but I'd not hold my breath waiting for a response; the group seems to be more-or-less dormant right now. You will most likely have better luck with the WikiProject Biography people. Horologium t-c 17:08, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Added requests on both. Let's see if I get any response.--Legionarius 04:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Some answers about the CS article. Not sure what make of it, since it goes against recommendations from the GA reviewers. About our friend Jim - he looks like a vandalism magnet, doesn't he?--Legionarius 01:45, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, He's going to be quite the chore to keep as neutral, although his tendency to speak without much self-editing is not helping matters much. You'll notice that I deleted that first set of entries on toilet-gate because of the über-crufty nature of the first source. Using the Sun-Sentinel (Naugle's favorite paper...heh) is a much better choice.


 * As to the review comments, they don't really go against the GA review, they just look at the article from a different angle. We already knew about the lede; that has always been the weakest point of the article, but I have a block when it comes to expanding it; I cannot come up with something that works well. Another editor (someone other than the two of us) might be able to work up a decent intro. Combining the media and culture sections might be useful, and while I dislike just discarding the sister city section, I'm not sure where we could move it. I'll think about that for a while... Horologium t-c 01:58, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The pictures do not really matter for FA... anyway, perusing other FA cities, most (if not all) use the Fair-use seals, so I think we are in the clear on that. I will try to take a picture of the walk and add to the article.

(moved stuff to new section below)

hey
do youre research bro hes harrassing me.BlueShrek 03:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Anglican Wikipedians
No worries-- you weren't to know all the politics behind it. (It's not just a US/rest of the world thing, btw: I've known anglo-catholic members of, say, St Mark's in Philly who wouldn't like to be called "protestant" at all.) Thanks for all the hard work you're doing sorting out the religion articles! The Wednesday Island 12:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Category tags
I agree, it's good for categories to refer to articles. However, it's better to use or  rather than. The main template was created so for articles to link to other articles. Catmore is good for same name cats, where the article is actually a member, and catmore1 is when it's not actually a member. I mostly use catmore1, since it's just a for more information. -- Prove It (talk) 16:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

more on Coral Springs, Florida
About the lead, I am in the dark here. besides we two, nobody is editing it. Seattle, Washington has a great lead, Ann Arbor, Michigan has a smallish but efficient lead... my personal favorite is Detroit, Michigan, looks like is the best for the article's purposes. San Francisco, California and San Jose, California are in the middle. Maybe if you choose a style I can write a similar lead and you c-e it later, this way we have a better collaboration...

The TOC match other similar structures for FA articles... I like Seattle, Washington structure for the sections, what do you think?--Legionarius 02:35, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I suspect that it will be extremely difficult to bring Coral Springs to FA status, because of its status as a relatively new suburban city. Let's start by addressing the issues in Alan's review, and then proceeding from there.


 * If you are going to take a picture, try taking a picture from the parking lot at the Village Green Shopping Center (the Publix at Sample and University) looking south on University Drive, with both of the financial centers and the new One Charter Place in the picture. That is the closest thing to "downtown" in the city; there's no skyline to photograph. (Alternatively, take a picture of City Hall, or (even better) the Covered Bridge; they are the two most notable, photogenic, and iconic structures in the city, and the covered bridge is mentioned twice in the article. City Hall (the main building, not the annex, which used to be a Morrison's Cafeteria) might make a nice picture for the top of the article if you can't get a decent photo of "downtown".


 * The biggest problem we are going to encounter is the city's relative youth. Looking at the geography FAs, there is only one city on that list that is younger than Coral Springs, Hamersley, Western Australia, and it uses a rather strange and non-standard organization. (It also recently failed a FA review; not sure why it's still listed.) Marshall, Texas is a smallish town in the US that has made FA status, but it has a 165-year history backing it up, including an extensive history of the city's role in the Civil War. As to the organization of the article, let's try and reduce the number of sections a bit. We could combine Media and Culture, and move the sister city reference to the Government heading. We could possibly move infrastructure into government, or merge the economy section into demographics (for the employment stats) and government (for the bond rating stuff). I'm not as fond of the last one, though, because Economy is one of the core sections in the WP cities template, although it is something that really applies to larger cities rather than suburbs. Alternatively, we could organize it the way it was done in the Marshall article. Horologium t-c 13:55, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I liked the Marshall, Texas organization. Did you like any of the leads?

I will take some city pictures and send it, so we can review. Do you have an e-m address I can use? Sample x University is not looking good now. One Charter place is still in final stages of construction and empty. The original Publix is closed. --Legionarius 18:16, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll see if I can work up a lede based on the Detroit and Ann Arbor articles. I am still (very slowly) working on that "History of Fort Lauderdale" article in my sandbox, so give me some time. I promise that I'll get it done by the weekend.


 * I knew that Village Green is torn up right now, and they are going to demolish the Publix, but I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that One Charter Place had already opened. The city website's webcam is pointing to the VG parking lot, so I can see they have the area immediately surrounding Publix fenced off, but the rest of the parking lot looks clear. Horologium t-c 19:01, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey boss, no hurry! Sorry if it looked like I was pressing you. I will take pictures and send them once I have a chance.--Legionarius 20:06, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey Horologium: I added the pictures; I like the canal one, to show that the city is "green" too; maybe if something is added to the economy section, we could move the One Charter place picture there. I removed the reps table (it is commented if you wanna revert) and prosed the city table. Added the City Hall picture to the Government part, I thought it would look a little nicer. Removed the fair use for the museum, since the goal was to not have fair uses in the article; I think the seal and logo must stay, all other FAs have non-free except for the most important cities who had it reproduced somewhere else. Please let me know what you think.--Legionarius 16:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and moved the picture to Economy - the article has at least one picture per section now.--Legionarius 16:21, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks good. I'm a bit less enthused by the second City Hall picture, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Your decision to remove the old museum photo was a good choice; it eliminates any potential non-free image issues. I agree with the city logo/seal thing; besides, you have the e-mail from Kevin Knutson's aide, and his office can undoubtedly be contacted if there are questions. Horologium t-c 16:41, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Glad you liked :-). I am not crazy about the second picture, but the hall is circled by ugly sights. Unless I digitally remove... not a good idea. Looked the best picture to put in the Gov't section, tough. Since you agreed with the change, I will ask for deletion of the old pic of the museum.--Legionarius 16:50, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

William Cooley
I am getting ready to GAc Cooley, since the peer review is up for eleven days and I got zero responses. I am just waiting for his Store's picture. If you have a chance, I would appreciate if you could look into the expanded lead and copy edit my clumsy writing. No hurry nor obligation of course :-).--Legionarius 20:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, I went through and gave it a good copy-editing; I removed a fistful of non-essential links; not every noun has to have a wikilink (grin).


 * I have the Fort Lauderdale history more-or-less complete up to the post-World War II period; that section is still virtually empty, as the original source had nothing either. I have census figures (and the refs), but that is about it. I'll work on that tomorrow, expand the lede on Fort Lauderdale, Florida, submit it for a GA review, and start work on expanding the lede for Coral Springs. Whee. Horologium t-c 23:42, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks a million! I fell for the automated peer review and made a lot of wikilinks.:-) I added a bunch more of extra information today. Hopefully I will put my hands on his actual will during this week or the next.--Legionarius 03:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I had a lot to say on the talk page for the article. This is turning into a soup sandwich because of inconsistent sources. Horologium t-c 03:12, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm. Besides the Gordon thing (it has good parts in it, a lot of primary source information), the other sources are ok. Kirk's article is the base for every other article about Cooley, but it took a leap of faith on some passages. The other information is almost entirely primary sources - Census pages, land patents, Congress papers, original letters. Gordon probably used the day the will was probated as the date of death. I have to get my hands on the will... or at least the article about the will.--Legionarius 03:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Btw, the letter may be not important at all- after all, it is about someone else. Would be important to determine if WC was coming from GA or TN. Not sure if it is worth the trip, only if you are in the area... This is the letter: http://www.uflib.ufl.edu/EastFlorida/Card.asp?ID=23621. The will is featured in this article:


 * Cooley, William - Will filed for probate in 1860 - Left slaves to grandchildren - names listed
 * Publisher: Tampa Tribune (Microfilm)
 * Date:1958 11 02
 * Edition: "Pioneer Florida" column by D. B. McKay
 * Page: HCHC Scrapbook 1957-1960; Col. 7-8
 * Microform#: Microfilm available at Main Library; Scrapbooks owned by Hillsborough County Historical Commission (HCHC).

Or -
 * Pioneer Florida.
 * by Donald Brenham McKay
 * Language: English Type:  Book
 * Publisher: Tampa, Fla., Southern Pub. Co. [1959]
 * OCLC: 1534537
 * http://worldcat.org/oclc/1534537&referer=brief_results

Those are the two last things, I guess.--Legionarius 03:35, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The worldcat thing leads to a mainpage link (old link outdated), but it appears that this item is in the Smathers East Library at UF. I'll have to see if I need to be a student to view it; if so, we're SOL. I'll call tomorrow morning and find out what their policies are. Horologium t-c 03:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey, the microfilm is also available at the library. This may be a two-fer. I'll let you know tomorrow morning whether I can access them or not. Horologium t-c 03:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Fantastic :-). I am going to check the LDS for the original will. If they do not have the microfilm there, it can take a while, since they order it from Utah.--Legionarius 04:05, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I will be heading off to the library shortly; I can't check the materials out, but I can view them. I'll make photocopies. :) Horologium t-c 13:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Cool. I am off to LDS. Just the pioneer book is $500, I can understand why they do not want to see it checked out...--Legionarius 15:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

(outdent) I struck out with the Pioneer book; I couldn't find any reference to Cooley/Colee/Colley within. I *did* get a copy of that letter, though; it is a barely legible letter that is signed by Col. Alexander, and the name "Wm Cooley" appears beneath Alexander's signature, so Cooley was with Alexander in November 1813. Horologium t-c 18:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Excellent :-) Thanks a lot for your help. I will have the original will in two weeks, it will be a fair replacement to the Tampa article. I just got the picture from Harvard - it is a nice picture of Cooley's Store(he is not in the photo), and I am trying to get a permission from Harvard for uploading it.--Legionarius 19:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

List of sister cities in Florida
Thought you may have some use for this.--Legionarius 03:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice, but the lists don't match up, at least for Fort Lauderdale. Sister Cities International doesn't have Venice listed as a sister city of Fort Lauderdale, and the city doesn't have São Sebastião on their listing. I've e-mailed the city to find out the status of São Sebastião, but somebody is going to have to update a list. Other than that, the list is nice. I added a WP Florida tag on the talk page. Horologium t-c 12:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Miami is totally different.--Legionarius 15:25, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean. Gahh, only five overlapping cities on those two lists. I have sent an e-mail to Sister Cities International, asking for some clarification. I received a follow-up from the GFLSCI, stating that São Sebastião may be a "friendship" city, similar to the relationship that previously existed between Venice and Fort Lauderdale. They are going to look into it in a couple of weeks; they are very busy right now, since the SCI yearly conference is being held in Fort Lauderdale this year, and they are responsible for all of the preparations. Horologium t-c 16:05, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I am done with my list. Any suggestions? Do you think the captions are well written? Thanks in advance :-)--Legionarius 12:27, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: F-16 and F-4 user cats discussion
I've seen your username dozens of times on the UCfD page alone and I still spelt it incorrectly? I guess I must subconsciously really like the made-up word "Hologrium" or the (again, made-up) suffix "logrium". ;) Thanks for pointing this out to me and I apologise for the mistake, Black Falcon (Talk) 19:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * (big grin) No biggie. My username seems to trip up a lot of people, possibly because it's not of English-language origin. I didn't want to modify your comments, so I thought I'd give you a gentle nudge. There's a story behind the name, that's all I'll say about it. (smile) Horologium t-c 20:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * A story? And that's all you'll say!? Now my curiousity is really piqued. You know, I ..... waaaaait a minute .......... you're not from the Horologium constellation, are you? ;-) Black Falcon (Talk) 23:15, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmmmm. A new user cat... *laughs* if you are really curious, e-mail me through the Wikipedia e-mail thing, and I'll tell you. Horologium t-c 23:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * cc me. :-)--Legionarius 12:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

USF St. Pete assesment
Thank you for the comments. I'll try to get through as many as possible.-- _ B aR iM zI _ 17:36, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

List of mammal species in Florida
Thanks for your vote :-). Btw, I want to add a column in the list, not sure what. Any suggestions?--Legionarius 23:43, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * How about species? I'd wait until after the AfD is closed, however. I think this will be a WP:SNOW candidate, as the nomination is exceptionally weak. Horologium t-c 23:47, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

GA
No, that was an example. ¿SFGi Д  nts!  ¿Complain! ¿Analyze! ¿Review! 01:14, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, I just found this by chance. I agree that a quick fail is odd, but I attempted to address the issue by adding more sources. It would be helpful if specific lines and assertions could be pointed to though, as there are already more than a few good references. Thanks for your observation and cheers, Tewfik Talk 06:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Concerning Iceland as a GA
The Iceland article does have a history section. In fact, I wrote it myself, as it was one of the most glaring omissions when I started fixing the article. It's right here, for your viewing pleasure :). It was under section 5, but  I moved it to the top of the article, to be in line with other country articles.  Also fixed the dodgy references. Will you consideration formal assessment now? -- Palthrow 17:19, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Fort Lauderdale Maximum terms
I was looking for a cite, and looks like now it is three terms, not six.

http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=10787&sid=9

I added a cite for "final term" in my naugle article, so you may use.--Legionarius 15:01, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I found this about airport traffic: http://www.aci-na.org/docs/2006%20Final%20Passenger%20Ranking.xls. As a consolatin, FLL is ranking high here.


 * For the airport thing from US News, I'll think I'll ignore that FLL was seventh WORST (higher numbers=higher misery index; read the results). I'll rework the thing on Naugle in the Fort Lauderdale article; I'll need to figure out when it went into effect, and explain how he ended up with six terms. On the reference for his final term—it's a blog. Blogs from newspapers are still blogs, and I won't use blogs for citations on articles that I am trying to get to GA status. I am busy citing the boating industry thing right now; I'm almost done fixing the issues from the GA review. Gahhhh, that was a brutal assessment. Horologium t-c 15:41, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, that was my joke :-) Anyway - the blog is from a staffer, it can be considered notable. You will find plenty of news that say "Naugle's final term", though. The new legislation was approved in 2000. --Legionarius 15:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you have a cite for that? That would explain it--he was reelected in 2000 (presumably at the same time that the legislation passed); his three terms would have started with that election (2000, 2003, 2006, out in 2009.) Horologium t-c 15:58, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It is in the first link.
 * Congrats on the GA!--Legionarius 19:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Need your help
Hey bud, I just thought I would jump over and tell you I need a little help over on the Tammy Faye article. I have people jumping on this thing and adding unsourced materials on a minute by minute basis. Maybe you can help me get it straightened out? I placed a verify tag on the page and it keeps getting removed. I may have to go and have it protected. Hope to hear from you. Junebug52 05:52, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Ward Churchill misconduct deletion
That article was deleted because a Verlempt supporter was trying to for the deletion of an external link. It was a comedy of errors that could have been avoided by allowing consensus to rule the day and thus avoiding the scrutiny of an administrator. Albion moonlight 22:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Category:Psuedoreligionist Wikipedians
As you may already be aware, Category:Psuedoreligionist Wikipedians and its subcategories, Category:Discordian Wikipedians, Category:Flying Spaghetti Monsterist Wikipedians, Category:SubGenius Wikipedians, and others, have been deleted. That deletion is now up for review. If you have anything you'd like to say on the subject, now is the time. If you know of any other editors who might have something to say on the subject, pass the word. If, on the other hand, you are not interested in the slightest, feel free to delete this. — The Storm Surfer 00:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)