User talk:Hoverfish/Archive 2

ESBlofeld
Hey thanks my friend. I know it'll take a bit of time for you all to get to know me but I promise you I always mean well and want to work at building this into something great! I really appreciate your help -very good coordinator.

All the best I'm off to bed now feeling severley bloated had a MASSIVE pasta. prawns and veg. for dinner with a spicy muschroom-tomato source -repeating on me!! My eyes are stinging me! Goodnight and thanks again Ernst Stavro Blofeld 23:07, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey see my work on The Temptress starring Greta Garbo. I have built it from the tiny stub I have seen started. I am going to concentrate on this at the minute -it has bags of potential I reckon for a main page Did You KNow? and maybe a collaboration of the week? I love Greta Garbo -It will need a great deal of work but there is an enormous amount of info on it whicih can be referencedErnst Stavro Blofeld 17:35, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

well that's funny because many films I have seen e.g Jurassic Park (film) main cast actors are in bold. Is this against our guidelines? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 17:48, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I have added the full synopsis now from several sources combined but I need a little more copy editing labelling the pcitures to accompany the story then start on other aspects e.g goofs etc. This wil look very good soon enough Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:10, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

main section bit better nowErnst Stavro Blofeld 18:14, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

hey I'm only half done! I ham adding sections on the filming from a number of different sources which I need to copy edit into a combined total resource article. I need to expand the dvd section too I have found screenshots of the dvd menu - the film was released with several other films in one and I'll talk about this too. Its taking shape Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:56, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

silent films are in the public domain to I can be a bit more liberal with the images but I won't upload many more Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

phew I just worked my socks off! No more work today! I've done the bulk of it now on The Temptress but there is till a lot of info I can add filling out the bottom. Not bad eh? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:29, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I joined Wikiproject Bio about 2 weeks ago I think but am only loosely acquainted with it Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:03, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Well I strongly beleive that actors and directors and film go hand in hand but of ocurse it is WikiProject Films not cinema. wiki biography covers too much of an enormous coverage of people, it would be better to have a Wikiproject Actors and Directors - this would potentially be massive in its own right. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:30, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Wow Peruvian cinema is pretty more. I don't think it has much of an industry at all. I just had to create the categories for the directors producers and screenwriters as one of them who directed almost 100 films was a major figure in Argentina -his name comes up in many articles!!. Hey thanks for noting the lists on the newsletter as another member of film project has started a missing Argentine film aside from Luigi Bob. keep up the film tagging! Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

Maybe the expand tag should go on the Cinema of Peru page? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 18:05, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Argentine cinema
Just to let you know that I have got WikiProject Argentina/Cinema of Argentina up and running as part of Wikiproject Argentina who beleived it was a great idea - and can be linked on the Wikifilm page as a related or sub project. I hope that it will encourage more people to work on it. The same can be done to other countries that have major cinemas later as I work on their cinemas and lists. All of the films that need starting are linked to our  WikiFIlm missing articles page and the page can be used to organize articles that require attention etc, missing actors and ddirectors -the list of articles without an info box creating order for each country.

I want to ensure that everything is done methodically and in systematic country for each cinema industry -this way accessing each industry is there for WikiProject Film at our fingertips and are alos useful components in the respective major country projects themselves. It highlights the work needing doing in each industry. The Argentine list has developed now but it is still far from complete Ernst Stavro Blofeld 12:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

Well you know me by now I have an enormous belief in connecting everything -I feel it is a very useful asset for our project organization this way editors will know who work for film or argentina or whatver country what needs doing in this area. Mi amigo Luigi Bob and I will be making a list of Award winning Missing Argentine films which will have primary importance at the top -this in turn will be connected to the Section on the missing Award films that I know you were involved in setting up for wiki film -these connected to Argentina. Argentina is just the start -ps. I know the box isn't complete yet I think 1963 connects to 1993 !! but at present I am gathering togethr some more films of the 1950s and 1960s to bulk up the years then copmplete the final splits. so the List articles for Argentina are established.

P.s two or three images per page to identify the major films of each year shouldn' t be a copywright problem if I include a second rationle in the image licensing to assert why it contributes to an understanding of the historical contezt of the film - It is no different from the images in the main Cinema of pages to attain a better undersanding. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 13:39, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Very true! I am branching the 1950s out now but there are still many titles missing see User:Ernst Stavro Blofeld/Film sorting -still in the middle of sorting themErnst Stavro Blofeld 14:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Could you do me a favour and see List of Austrian films and see that the links are complete to german wikipedia - its just one of the links covers all films from 1907-1930 but the other link is false -does german wikipedia have the list of films 1930 -present? If so it will make compiling the list far easier. Note that the List of Austrian films will need putting into the standard chart as with Argentina and Canada which I will do soon enough and then split them. That flag will go too when I split them. Thanks Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks I was kind of thinking notability included awards or noms and other important bit of info about the film- the same thing really. However i would strongly support another column for studio/distributor if it can be done like the Germans - but as you said at the beginning - some films have about 7 different companies!! which might prove difficult. its a fine way to go though and when I have had time I have switched those A-Z multi pagers with the standardized chrono tables such as in List of Iranian films ready for completing. For every other country where the list are empty it is best first to fill in the empty tables from the articles that already exist in wikipedia then add the rest. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll try and convince Indian cinema (which I am also a loose member of now) to list their films in year order in standard with all of the other countries of the world film lists rather than backwards which I beleive is harder to understand such as List of Bollywood films. I noticed also on the List of Cuban films that it might have been you who stored the missing films behind the editing page ready for putting into the mainspace. If it was you good work. See ya Ernst Stavro Blofeld 15:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

You may want to check out User:Storyliner who is indeed creating the stubbiest of stubs and can't get him to stop!! Ernst Stavro Blofeld 22:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I have tried adding infobox and categires for Song of the Sarong as an example of how to set out new stubs but he won't listen!! Ernst Stavro Blofeld 22:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi there. It stil amazes me how many mainstream US films are missing from wikipedia and how many Americans films are not categorized as American! The film I saw last night Unlawful Entry (film) starring Kurt Russell and Ray Liotta -I expected to find a decent length article on it but it didn't exist! When I have timw from compiling and removing the red links from the lists I think I ought to find a list of major actors and direcotrs and go through their filmo's and add them to the missing lists. ALso to go through the years and Categorize films as American and ENglish language too.

ALso any more thoughts on the sub-stub category for films in the talk page quality graph? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 16:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Well given that there is a large scope in the definition of a stub ranging from a one liner to an info boxed article with a small plot summary and cast I would be inclined to beleive Category:Sub-stub class film articles would be highly appropriate -to allocate them as sub stubs that are next to nothing articles -this way there is no pressure to immeditely have to sort them out when new users add them. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 17:17, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

World film lists
I have gone through most country lists now and changed the A-Z to the chrono tables readt for compiling. Gradually I am bringing the world together on this and now there are people in Pakistan, Nigeria, Poland and Singapore (Singapore is looking very good) as well as two possible contributors from Yugoslavia who may help out. In checking the country categories I am actually surpised that there are more films covered on here across the world than I initally thought e.g Filipino films there are over 70! Also that American category is starting to look more like it should be! See ya! Ernst Stavro Blofeld 21:28, 12 February 2007 (UTC).

Film-editor-stub category
User:Luigi Bob has recently been creating articles on some notable film editors and has brought it to my attention that a stub category doesn't exist for film editors. As film editors are a part of film and help to rid of red links in films please lend your support or opposition at WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals. There are hundreds not stub categoirzed as editors and there are many many missing from wikipedia and I beleive they are an important part of the film making process. Thanks Ernst Stavro Blofeld 22:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi. What do you mean? Template:Film-producer-stub Template:Cinematographer-stub already exist. I think US screenwriter does as well. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 13:59, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Template:Film-director-stub definately exists!! . Template:US-screen-writer-stub exists too! but strangely not Template:Screen-writer-stub also? There are thousands of screenwriters across the world also although of course the US dominates. I figure the main components of film biographies are actor, director, producer, screenwriter, cinematographer and editor and maybe score-composer. I know it falls under the biography project but they are very important parts of film articles! I of course wanted to propose it first to respect other peoples views on this!! Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Cheers mate. Wow I have to say I'm really noticing your work all over!!! It seems nearly every film and even talk page I visit I see your work on info boxes and tagging. Super wikiknome!! Congrats and keep up the good work!! Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:36, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Cool - hey isn't the film news paper out some time? Ernst Stavro Blofeld 15:10, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to thankyou for you support. We have just about rid of all the red links from Abbas's article and the next task in between my Argentine film work will be to develop his major Iranian films such as Taste of Cherry to a good article status. The last red link I just rid of on Abbas's page was Richard Pena - who incidentally is himself interested in Argentine film!! Any idea what category he should go in? Such as Film fiestival organizers or something. Unfortunately I think the main bio picture of Pena will have to go as it has been tagged despite the rationale given. Ah well.

Idon't know if you have noticed but check out the contributions of User:LuigiBob -my collaborator on the cinema of Argentina. Quality or what?! His new film and actor entries are terrific. I don't know whether he is a film project member or not -you may want to welcome him perhaps? All the best Ernst Stavro Blofeld 22:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiKnome diligence award for Hoverfish
I feel you deserve it. Hey looks like I did a good job on Abbas Kiarostami!! It is now a featured article candidate! Ernst Stavro Blofeld 17:30, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes unfortunately many of those images of the silent actors have those unsightly borders on. I had almost forgotten I had ever done work on the silent films and actors. William Garwood, Louise Lester and Charlotte Burton I think still have similar borders but I don't know how do do it. I'll try to have a go from your suggestions. Ernst Stavro Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 14:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I had a go but I am unable to do it on my PC. Isn't there a category for films based on a novel? I can't seem to locate it. I just added a missing film from the 1930s missing list: The Bad Sister which is novel based. There are also a number of other films started on the 1930s missing page- when I have time I aim to add those Roy Rogers films and complete the filmography of John Wayne-. Ernst Stavro Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 14:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I know I was sure I had seen a film novel cat. too - I know there is one for plays but every time I try to word it in the category in different ways it stays red linked. Thanks. Ernst Stavro Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 14:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

ALso have you noticed some of the changes to the world cinema template? Does west asia sound right? I won't quabble with it but I thought the "Middle-east" fitted in with the standard article Middle eastern cinema? I am also aazed about the Cinema of Somalia !! -they were one of the last countries I was expecting an article on. I didn't even know they had ever produced a film! Ernst Stavro Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 14:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I just noticed that Her PegShip was wondering about the film/book category too -it does seem too many sub divisions. Wouldn't it be easier to have more of a main category Films based on a novel? Ernst Stavro Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 14:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree totally. I'm sure if it is proposed then it will be okay. It is better to keep categories as simple as possible judging from past discussions. Also people starting films are more likely to add the Category:Films based on a novel rather than all those mystery etc cats. Plus that category page is a very good idea for counciling ideas. P.S I am experimenting with a new signature at the moment!! Dr. Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 14:45, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I have just been googling for info on Argentine films. I have found a site in spanish for a handful of the 1930s films I am currently working on with the lists but it doesn't cover any of the other decades. - but I know somehwere there should be a site I can develop each stub into full articles-I prefer to write detailed articles but they need at least to be established on wikipedia even if stubbed. I have also found a site http://www.mchanan.dial.pipex.com/latin%20american%20cinema%201.pdf for Latin American cinema and aim to add the info from the link into that stub article later. But the template on that page has made the world cinema box go off line. How did you say to correct this again? Ernst Stavro Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 15:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for helping earlier. Sorry to bother you again but I think I may have found a solution to the red links and stubs on the Argentine films. I have been working on List of Argentine films:1939 today. I have stubbed most of the films and soon enough I will go back and hopefully find info to write them into articles. However do you think it respectable enough and better if for the films which I know are notable but don't yet have much info on them to redirect to the lists where I can fill as much info on the directors, actors and cast details as possible. A stub should look like Margarita, Armando y su padre minuimum I think but for the films which don't have info on the plot etc and full cast details I think I should redirect to the lists which often provide the equivalent info to lots of the stubs.

This also helps to set up the films in the index of wikipedia and also regulates the small stubs. This way as I find info I can create the article equivalent and hopefully create better articles. I have found that I can categorize the redirect pages as Argentine films or whatever. So if you were looking through the Argentine film index such a film would be there and redirect temporarily to the brief info in the list. This would probaly be only needed for earlier films as later films have much information. Do you have any objection to this? -this way it serves a number of functions until better articles can be written? Ernst Stavro Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 16:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC) Well any of the smaller stubs have an info box now anyway. As I said any article set up now will always have an info box anyway however small so you needn't be concerned with that - so even if I started 20 small stubs they would definately have 20 info boxes!! I thought it might be better instead of creating smaller stubs to redirect to the lists which show the same info to start with - It seems easier to set out a basis first using the lists and then write the articles afterwards. -this also means that the lists will become fuller and complete more quickly. How about I continue and you'll see what I mean -if you see any problems let me know. Ernst Stavro Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 17:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

What I'll do I think is start as many of the films as I can which have a bit of info and/or an image like Buenas noches, Buenos Aires with the info boxes -setting up the pages and redirect others which have little info to the lists until they can be written out. Either way we are now hitting the 400 film mark for Argentine films -not bad since that category was so tiny at Christmas!! -70 or these are not stubs they have been written many of them into B-class articles. Buenas noches, Buenos Aires now links together many started actors such as Hugo del Carril, Tito Lusiardo, Roberto Escalada etc -so as long as everything is connecting increasingly it can only get better. Ps I added some images to the CInema of Hong Kong page. See ya!. Ernst Stavro Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 20:41, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Silent films
OK thanks I'll stick to 200px then. Adapting those images would be great help. Unfortunately I created tons of stubs on the silent films of the 1910s when cleaning out Wiliam Garwoods, Charlotte Burtons and Harry von Meter's filmogrpahies back in about September or October before I had ever joined films or knew about the info boxes!! However they fill in important gaps -silent films had very little coverage and the more you study that period the more interested you get!. I know I also created many directors and actors such as Albert MacQuarrie, George Field, J. Warren Kerrigan, Eugenie Forde, Lamar Johnstone etc -I don't know if you want to alter the pics for them? A good way to do it might be to go through the fimographies of those I mentioned in the third line and see the actors stemming from those films. I used the images of the actors liberally in the films as they are public domin and could'nt find any screenshots - they are very rare almost extinct films -there age mkes them even more interesting. Ernst Stavro Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 21:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey I wasn't aware I was well known before that!!! I think as I was adding the geo articles I realised how vast the missing films were at that time which prompted me to try to help out. As a witness over the last five or six months I have seen an amazing progress in film since early October -amazing from everyone involved- the coverage and improvement has been phenonomal (I can never spell that word) from all countries of the world and time periods It brings a smile to my face when I see some great work by many people in film often many thousands of miles who are building this into something so great even like in Korea and China. AMazing. Anyway I have got as far as Woman's Honor for Charlotte Burton -half through 1913. You may want to go through her filmography first-its a good way to do it. I'll leave you now -I've bothered you enough today! Ernst Stavro Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 21:31, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes I know of it well I couldn't remember the company - I remember reading about it in ALlen Dwan article or something that the company moved to southern Ireland and back!! Crazy! Ernst Stavro Blofeld "I've been expecting you" 21:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I have been categorizing the American silent films as both American films and American silent film. Do you think both are needed? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 17:42, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

OK thats fine. I am surprised that the Category:American silent films wasn't deleted when the others were -I figured it was because it shows the silent films from the sound films. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 18:23, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes!!! Mission accomplished- Kiarostami is now a featured article!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 22:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Russian
I was speaking with User:ESN yesterday and he tells me that [[:Category:Russian empire films has been deleted. From what I understand shouldn't Russian films politically be divided up into 3 categories


 * Pre 1917 Russian Empire film
 * 1917-1990 Soviet films
 * 1990-present in (Russia) Russian films?

I do prefer simply categories but isn't this politically correct? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 20:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Cinema templates
Just to let you know that I finally got around to setting up some of the main film producer cinema templates and already many users have begun using them to go at the foot of pages for coordination. See the Cinema of.. templates in Category:WikiProject Films templates. If you have any suggestion sabout how to improve them (I am considering adding the tiny edit toolbar in the corner as with the world template for one) please let me know. A number of users have said they are a great idea, incl. members of WikiProject Film. All of the templates have the same naming e.g just CinemaofHongKong, CinemaofChina, CinemaofDenmark with a  around it. THis way it'll be easier to add to the footer of pages e.g

♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 22:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Hoverfish. They are blanked for a reason -I couldn't find the icons in the commons I looked! I may have to wait for her Pegship to return -we need one for Germany in particular ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 09:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes I will ensure that all the templates are standardized. Your kidding you didn't know who my user name is? The "volcano" and the cat and the diamonds? You must have thought me weird!!! See article Ernst Stavro Blofeld !! It is a send up of Mr Blofeld from Bond in Doctor Evil style! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 09:34, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The ridiculous idea of world domination in the Cold War ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 09:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

It is based on You Only Live Twice (film) based in a volcano in Japan and an attempt to start World War III - the ultimate stereotype of this genre - my father doesn't care too much about the Bond films either -they are a bit silly but good fun. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 09:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

OK I think its time for a little challenge. I am going to absolutely devour The Maltese Falcon (1941 film) and make it into the great article it deserves. In between my Argentine cinema I am going to write this into a super article! There is all the info there I need to achive this ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 11:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I am engrossed in the world of The Maltese Falcon (1941 film) at present check out the progess !!!! I aim to make this pretty good but I need to do the whole copy editing thing afterwards. I am trying to rewrite it and aviod direct copywright ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 14:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes I agree each film flag icon should be identical and consistent. When her Pegship returns I'll kindly present her with a "to-do" list of icon creating for the rrspective cinemas -this includes the Italy icon to a white rather than black background. -standardized. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 14:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Hovefish. If Wisekwai could create those missing film icons Germany. Iran, etc that would be great - I beleeive there is already a category in the commons for film icons. Also what would you like me to add to the film talk discussion? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 10:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

The category is here: ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 10:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Film_icons

I have created most of the templates now but one country was particularly tricky-India. It may still need moderation -I tried to condense it as much as possible - The films from each industry direct to the categories where I have fixed them so the List of films appear at the top of the categories. I think its very useful for navigation but it definately at amaximum size -India is unique from all the other cinemas. I hope you approve -its a start anyway

♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 12:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Screenwriter/editor stubs
After consensus I closed the case on the long awaited stub categories and set them up Category:Screenwriter stubs and Category:Film editor stubs now exists. Sceen-writer-stub and film-editor-stub is the mode. If you could spread the word I would be grateful. I'll categorize the American-screenwriter tubs in the main cat above now ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 11:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah I absolutely agree with you. See my discussion with User:Prolog (who is finnish and from film) - this is why I reduced the title font size to 3. I wasn't aware the other text needed changing -definately it should be as you just said. Wise Kwais done a good job adding a category to house them in. I also plan to remove some of the red links from some of the starter templates -this is agoo dstep to ridding of red links in the info boxes of articles -I just did the Icelandic ones ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 14:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I of course have one problem with Yugoslavia and Russia. We have Cinema of Yuglosavia yet all the cinema people are divided into Serbs, Croats, Slovenes etc. Maybe I should link them all if I can condense it. ALso what about Cinema of the Soviet Union? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 14:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I know that. What I mean is there is no category Yugoslavian actors Category:Yugoslavian directors etc. Only Yugoslavian films!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 14:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject Actors and Directors
I don't know whether you agree or not butI have always beleived that actors and directors and cinema characters are tied to our Film Project. Nobody can dispute the fact that they are part of cinema and films and I beleive we have at least some responsibility to upkeep them if they are directly linked from our film articles. However rather than setting up a seperate project what about WikiProject Films/Actors and WikiProject Films/Directors. THis way they are a part (or at least tied) to our film project. Each page would highlight the articles that require most attention, missing articles etc for better project coordination. WikiProject Biography is so enormoous and I see hundreds of actor and director articles in very poor shape and neglect -Biogrpahy cannot work to effectively concentrate on hundreds of thousands of articles at once!!. The cinema characters would be a part of both projects. Ther is no obligation but it would certianly help to organize it all better, However if nobody wants it as part of films then of course they can be set up independently. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 18:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes perhaps- I know eventually there will be a legion of contributors its just i really want to tie it to the film project without giving us a forced obligation to take care of an extra 50,000 articles!!!!! We have enough work to do (myself included) on films solely!! but when i have time i'll definately make the offical proposal and scouting for members -I beleive wikiproject films began this way and look how far we have come!! Even if it begins with some kind of organization about high importance actor article in attnetion or something it is a start.

American cinema template
I know it is a biggy task but any ideas for improvement? I was going to consider leaving the US out because of the sheer size but if it was adapted accordingly it might look quite good - I would prefer though the actual flag image which is a darker red

♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 21:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Also very nice to see Aussie Pete has finally standardized the Aussie lists looking great - I thought I might have to do it myself. I see he has added a column for links -good idea I should do that in future ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 20:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

P.S I have been in contact with Indian cinema today and they are extremely pleased with the template (which I've now altered as you suggsted). I have also asked them to intergrate the missing Indian film list as an important part of their work schedule ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 20:11, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

For American films it should go in the general articles only -the most important, award winning films -good articles etc and perhaps "iconic" film actors and direcotrs which have full articles. However the skinny foreign templates are intended for all indlividual articles related to their individual cinemas. From all people I have encountred so far they are happy with the templates on all related pages -as long as the tmeplates are at the very foot of the page it is fine. Indian cinema has proposed to use it in all film and acotr/direcotr articles If I get serious complaints then that is my problem but I doubt it but if it is at the footer it looks fine - it is no different thatn the many director and actor templates that keep popping up. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 21:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Also of course it depends on the size of an article. If it is a two line stub the template will look way out of place - howver if it is a developed article then the template will not look even slightly cluttered. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 21:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

For instance see Allegro non troppo. I can't really see an outroar at the template at the footer -it just looks-well fine but more importantly useful for browsing through Italian cinema (except background needs to be white). If the template looks inappropriate or out of place then it can be removed. Has someone vandalised 1930 in film? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 21:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah you mean American cinema! I would suggest that the article has to be at a start stage at the very least for America if it is decided it is to go in other articles. That US template will create complaints if it is put in stub articles definately but if the article is more developed it will look fine. But that isn't the fault of the template -it is the article!! There needn't be offical ruling but it does need a warning, a "no include" to say please do not use in stub-class-articles perhaps? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 22:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

But for instance take two George Lucas films. In 1:42:08 -template would look ridiculous but Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope at the footer would look absolutely fine. I would hope people would go by common sense but maybe a message may be needed to stop it being used in basic stubs. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 22:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Silent films
Just wondering but do you feel the need to put Category:American silent films up for deletion? Its just I've seen you can skier remove this category from the articles. If you want to thats fine by me its just I thought it initally was quite important in American films ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 19:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

What do you think is best? It may be best I think to split Silent films maybe? I know it definately worth having the divide as the contrast between silent and sound is one of the biggest landmarks in cinema history. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 19:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Well I do think then that category Silent films should remain intact -after for expamle Action films and Drama films remain action films despite the number. I do beleive its best to have both Silent films and American silent films this way in the American film category you can browse through soley silent films from America. I would rather not have too much repetition in the categories but I feel this is a one-off. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 20:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Its a niggly one that. If like 90% of the Silent films were American I would'nt bother but you say only about 50% are American? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 20:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I know. Mmmmm. The thing is if lesser experienced editors are looking through films they are more likely to Categorize it Silent films. Silent films are causing problems!!! On many of them there is also tragically little info to expand them beyond stubs. I would think it best to reach a consensus -get the views of a number of people on the issue ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 21:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

OK well if you are continuing with my batch of silent stubs best leave both cats intact for now -I also don't want to get too involved with categories! WiseKwai did a great job with those icons by the way. They are looking much smarter now ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 21:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

CinemaofAustralia template
On those Aussie lists it might be good if eventually each year has an introductory paragraph of the top films award releases etc -this would make it more encyclopedic and also fill in that gap !! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 21:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

It is because the tables are fixed. I agree e.g on Pre 1920 Australian films that all the years are aligned as it covers a range of years but as those later years are now on seperate pages there is no need to fix the table - if it was left natural it is one table so it should naturally fit the contours of the page next to the template and remain tidy ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 21:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

E.g like List of Argentine films:2000. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 21:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

OK - actually the Australian lists were almost tagged before as Pete was creating them but I hope I convinced the sniffer that eventually they will be complete and look good. We do get a lot of questions !! -I just wish people would let us get on with it. I figured date order might be helpful on the lists - but alphabetical is fine until the dates are added and the film reordered. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 22:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Si si amigo. Yes Pete was right to complain about the Canadian lists. They are still all in decades and look much neater aligned but not if branched off by year as it is only a singular table. Saludos! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 22:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Template deletion
Ahh!!! A two users who know nothing about films have proposed all of my work for deletion. I am willing to limit the use of the American template in the cinema article only (after all many of the key American film and actors have templates related to their work anyway) but in world film they are very useful and I have had much support. I attempted to try to discuss it and come to some agreementand compromise but he went ahead anyway and put them all up after I told him about the support. I really feel like leaving wikipedia if my time and effort is wasted like this. At a last resort I would be willing to use the templates only at the bottom of the cinema articles to save them being deleted -but this will totally undermine their purpose of article connection. Please leave your view at Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_March_13 THanks ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 12:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I really wish there was some way we could stop rash users putting things up for deletion without a discussion first. The same situation occured with the Russian film category which was wiped out by people who know little about it ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 12:57, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I can see now how annoying I must have been when I used to act without a discussion!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 12:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Ahhhh!!!! I would hope by saying Please leave your view at ... is asking respectable members to leave their own opinion and make them aware of it - everybody here is an intelligent person and clearly able to state their view regardless of myself. I see too many deletion discussions made between only two or three people who wrongfully speak for millions of users. I have stated my intentions and have given a criteria and many core members of the project beleive they serve a purpose. I wish I could be allowed to get on with my work without such a fuss -it doesn't do anybody any good!!. All the best friend ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 15:19, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I know - this is where flaws do appear in who makes the decisions. I lost my patience with the would-be deleter after this decision and comment "Might as well throw the rest of the Cinema of X templates in here as well (no, I haven't checked them all to see if they are used the same way as CinemaoftheUS and I really hope that I got them all" -this is clearly not the way an admin should be acting. Thanks again for your again wise words ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 15:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

THanks. I should definately refer to it as our work and people are entitled to their opinion - I would have thought it more appropraite for those two to discuss initally what they opposed with me and then discuss it at film project to reach an agreemnt rather than jumping in and going all out deletion mode. However when somebody attacks our work without little discussion, acting in this manner it is not always plain and easy to see it from such a wise perspective!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 15:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I have just been sidetracked with setting up a new WikiProject Tibet which I propesed and got the green light on!

Yes, Too right about facing trouble with our film work. I agree about the lists - I was confering with Wise Kwai earlier that my main goal first with film now is to complete those lists for every country some of which are still worryingly empty and may face the AFD brigade if they are not sorted asap -Taiwan was almost up but a seasoned user helped in saving it I think. I would appreciate support from other members too in completing them even if it means just putting existing articles on wikipedia in the timelines I see it as an important task on the whole film agenda as I beleive they provde a firm foundation for the history of films. If this could be brought to the attention of the main Project Council I would be more than grateful. Regards ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 16:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

And don't worry I exagerrated my reaction to the TFD -it was more of a reaction to such interference with our work, trouble as time wasting rather than my own efforts ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 16:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

P.S What happened to List of Swiss films? Did someone just come along and remove it? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 16:58, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I would hardly describe the word "nasty" as a missile. It was a response to seeing the comment "We may as well throw the whole lot up for deletion. I haven't bothered to check any of them I really hope we got them all" I would hardly see that as a justifiable comment or action either, particularly for an admin either. Anyway lets forget about it now. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 17:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The thing is if there are very few films for each of the years e.g in earlier Canadian films e.g like 1 or 2 in each year wouldn't it just be easier to have then in one table like 1980s List of Iranian films ? . It would look tidier. Remember I only initally split the decade tables up in the belief that there were a high number of films. I suggest merging them into one table for the time being. I have to pop off now but I'll return later ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 18:58, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Good idea adding some French films - one of the biggest industries. However you seem to have got me wrong about the lists. "It might be a hard time persuading Blofeld to accept these lists to stay by alphabetical order. I know Aussiepete wouldn't have a problem and actually would like it better so. But Blofeld has ulterior plans to convert all the lists to chronological order". I know I said about the date order and everything but on starting the Argentine lists I immmediately thought how much tidier it would look in alphabetical order and easier to find. Also many films don't seem to have info on the release dates. So if done alphabetically the film which do have the releases the dates can be given. Even if it is alpahbetical users can still see by looking at the dates the order of release. In fact when the rest of the Argentine lists are completed I was considering putting them in alpha order anyway. Is this clear? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 22:14, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey I didn't mean to imply anything like that!! Sorry if I gave that impression. (Somtimes I wish we could speak to one another physically across the net rather than messaging!) What I was trying to say is that I am more open to suggestion - I know I have said about the date order which I do see as useful -but it is just funny that I was thinking the same thing as you and the others about the alphabet order which I do beleive looks tidier and more accesible. Its just if you think I may have a problem with something or you or any of the others have an idea about improvemnt I am always totally and completely open to you addressing it to me. All the best. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 12:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

If it can be sortable ok but why is that Thai list now out of order in places -if anything at present isn't it more confusing and untidy surely? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 12:48, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

If the sortable tables can list them alphabetically and in date order this is clearly a great idea but at present that list is confusing!! and out of order ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 12:50, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Right. My main focus for the next day or two is to add all of the titles on wikipedia into the film lists from the categories to secure them from any possible deletion. I am going to go through the list template in order. I'll start with Brazil which only has one film!!!. Once the lists are all secure enough I can continue to add the full contents and titles. I think this is a priority to save any trouble. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 13:43, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

We should also get a standard naming for the list templates like the Cinemaof ones. My idea would be to name the templates like the Template:ListofAustralianfilms or simply Australianfilms rather than Australiafilmlist. What do you think? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 15:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

My contributions? Hey check my last 100+ edits on the List of films!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 15:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

You are totally right about the vulnerability of some of the lists - Cuba and Denmark were completely empty of films -how they avoided the fate of the Swiss films I don't know. Such is the giganticy of wikipedia now that if you type e.g Danish films or list of danish films into google it is the number one entry even above national film databases which often have the complete works!!. And what will people find? Its not a good look. It wil take a substantial amount of time to work on these lists fully but I really do think it should be one of the WikiProject Film priorities. We can't map out the entirety of film overnight but we can certainly make sure those lists look at a respectable enough start to avoid the hammer in a day or two ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 16:43, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The reason I asked about the template earlier was I was about to create another template to make one of the lists look better which I was working on at the top and show that it is in the middle of expansion and how detailed it will eventually be. I know you said about standardization of templates and pages before so I thought it was worth deciding quickly particularly as these lists will soon be developed. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 16:48, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Remember that the cinema link was there (I'm talking about the link in the side template not that incorrect link before the first sentence! Absolutely it shouldn't be there) to show that they are intended to be part of the Cinema of... pages. In most of the Cinema of pages the section Films states main article List of..films showing that they are intended to be an expansion. I thought it was quite relevant to indicate they are part of the cinema pages and also I didn't plan on using the horizontal footer template on every page as Pete has done. Am I wrong about this? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 17:01, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

No there shouldn't have been the double links there - i've corrected it. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 17:28, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I have corrected the Canadian too -I'm glad you made me aware of it. Looks mcuch better now -including the Aussie films which now fit properly too. About disambiguation. Well the thing is the decades are linked in the base plate for general articles so they need to direct to somehting. Would you prefer e.g List of Australian films:1980s direct to List of Australian films:1980? I would also prefer not to have a disamb too - I would suggest also putting the pre 1920s page back to List of Australian films. The template serves the purpose for all article sso the disambiguation doesn't really matter. Agree? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 17:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually the decade disambiguation looks fine and is appropriate but not the main List of Australian films. I feel it is a waste of a page. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 17:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I have corrected the List of Australian films page is this ok? I have also removed the double link added a note and categorized it as Austrlian not Canadian. Why was the page categorized as Canadian films? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 18:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the giant dab I'll delink the connection to the decades in the vertical template -which not needed. Howver the general Aussie template will need to connect to something ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 18:08, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't even think even the giant dab is necessary because if you enter List of Australian films the note is there in the beginning and all of the contents are there in the box rather than listing them all on a disamb. What I mean is for exmaple visit the Body Melt page. See the navigation on the bottom and click 1980s. Where would you like it to go? Do you mean block off the links to the lists in this bottom box as well? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 18:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I think its OK now. Most of the decades in the general bottom plate direct straight to the lists anyway its only the 1980s-2000s which need a disamb as they are on sepereate pages. I agree with you about the titling but was that huge long dab page really necessary when you can immeditaely enter at the begining of the list at 1896 with all the contents housed neatly in the box? I'm taking a breather now I hope you are happy with things. See ya ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 18:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

German films
HI you may be pleased to know I have sorted out List of German films. User:Dude Sleeper has added tons of German films organized by the different regimes this is correct although an actor and release column will need to be added. I have created a new box to link them all -however List of West German films is empty and so is the List of films from unified Germany from 1989 onwards. THe 1990s and 2000s have been left on the main List of German films page until they can be filled a bit -then I will move them to the page List of German films 1990-. They look quite respectable now I think. ALso east German films are in year order but need to be placed into the table. Ok? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 20:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I know I agree with you. Less fiddling around with dates and actors which bloat the tables. Howver don't be discouraged. What it is all completed I know it will look great it just it needs SOOOOOOO much work. SOme of the lists are shocking!!!!!!!! and in complete disorder or non existent! List of Hong Kong films should be crammed full but I found it empty. List of Swedish films also needs some work. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 22:01, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

To complete this fully and admirably and get is up to a repsectable level is going to take a long time. A number of lists are also still in A-Z -but at least they have films in them!!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "I've been expecting you" 22:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I also added the films at the base of the Cinema of Malaysia as it is connected within the lists. Somebody added a List of Icelandic films too which is very helpful and I mamged to asked a Canadian user of Serbian descent to fill in the Yuglosavian table a bit and some anonymous user did a lot on List of Japanese films. However such work is sponteneous and the majority is untouched ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦  "I've been expecting you" 22:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)