User talk:Howaboutyouthinkaboutit

September 2009
Wikipedia is not a place to push an particular agenda you may have. Talk pages are for the discussion of the article, not general discussion of the subject.  Grsz 11  15:40, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

While I can appreciate your view and personal sentiment, I do not consider providing information along with valid references to be a "discussion of the subject" as opposed to bringing up material to be included in a "discussion of the article", especially when an article presents a very biased one-sided viewpoint itself.

To the contrary, Talk pages are NOT for the purpose of everyone jumping on the bandwagon and supporting anyone's one-sided viewpoint. They are to provide discussion for the questioning of incorrect information; to provide an awareness of additional information which should be included within an article; and to discuss additional modifications and suggested changes for the consideration and benefit of all parties involved in the development of an article.

"They [talk pages] are a forum to discuss how the different points of view obtained from secondary sources should be included in the article, so that the end result is neutral and objective (which may mean including conflicting viewpoints). The best way to present a case is to find properly referenced material"

Howaboutyouthinkaboutit (talk) 04:28, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

How does one get assistance with correcting or removing an unbalanced/biased article?
I've come across an article which claims to be about Health Care in the United States. However, the article does not provide information regarding health care itself, how it is attained, who provides it, and so on. Even the opening statement is incorrect, stating that some mysterious "legal entities" provide health care in the U.S.

Although many people have attempted to point out how biased and negative the article is, that it is not actually about how one attains care for their health in the U.S. or what one might expect regarding the many forms of health care which are available and how they are attained should they visit this country or choose to live here, the authors repeatedly appear to become defensive, argumentative, and react with persistent personal attacks against anyone attempting to assist in making the article more honest, neutral, helpful, balanced, and useful.

The article itself upon first reading appears to actually be about health care reform in the united states, yet when this has been pointed out it has only been met with ad hominem attacks, and seems to be beyond the authors ability to understand. There seems to be a basic confusion where the authors believe the term health care reform is synonymous with the term health care in the united states, itself.

So, being new to Wiki, I'm wondering just how does one get someone more experienced with the Wiki rules and guidelines, and with developing a useful, helpful, and honest article involved in it's creation?

So far, only arguments, defensiveness and attacks seem to have been returned to anyone attempting to point out how negative, biased, and apparently written with an agenda in mind to get an article on the subject of health care reform on Wikipedia, as this article apparently is intended to be.

As the authors adamantly refuse to include the term "health care reform" in the title, there is quite a bit of editing to be done to actually make the article about health care itself, and to remove the many statistics and negative bias which is peppered throughout the article from start to finish.

Thanks for any assistance you may be able to provide... Article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States Howaboutyouthinkaboutit (talk) 06:44, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi there. Please remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a directory. Information about how to attain health care are something one expects in a directory of health care providers, not in an article about health care in general. See Wikipedia is not a directory as well. Also, the text you proposed is definitely written from a biased point of view, using language to praise the system and certain entities, which is against Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy. Last but not least, all statements must be sourced to reliable sources which does not mean blogs or similar websites (which is all you provided in your proposal). You are welcome to edit Wikipedia, provided you accept that any use of language that promotes a certain point of view (positive or negative!) is not allowed in an article and that all information has to come from reliable, third-party sources. You might want to also read Your first article and Conflict of interest. Regards  So Why  07:06, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Howaboutyouthinkaboutit (talk) 07:24, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoa, slow down there... The text I "proposed" was clearly stated to be used as an example, for illustration, and not to be taken verbatim. Beyond that, I explained I did not care who wrote the text nor what the text actually contained, other than it actually include information on the health aspects of health care.  Nor have I proposed a directory be made out of the article, as you suggest, simply that the subject of health care be addressed, and the bias which is already in the article be removed.  Lastly, you have not addressed the issue I requested help with whatsoever, which was specifically how does one get assistance from a "neutral" administrator to remove bias from an article, and to have the article address the subject which it claims to be about to begin with. Although I will certainly read the references you provided, as I have no doubt they will be useful, I would appreciate an admin who can actually answer the question and possibly look at the article and see if they might like to assist in it's development rather than to simply look at a suggestion or two that I have made and simply criticize me in response.


 * First of all, you do not need an administrator for anything like that. This is a wiki, so anyone can help you (for example at the help desk). If you perceive bias in the article, you should point out what exactly you think to be biased on the article's talk page (i.e. Talk:Health care in the United States). It's hard to help you with your (perceived) problem if you do not exactly specify what parts of the article are in need of work. If such a discussion on the talk page does not result in improvement, you can also use the Neutral point of view/Noticeboard to request input from experienced editors on a problem with a neutral point of view violation. Regards  So Why  09:45, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Blocking a user
Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents is the place to go for what you are looking for.--Jorfer (talk) 17:03, 22 September 2009 (UTC)