User talk:Hydnjo/Archive06

DO NOT EDIT OR POST REPLIES TO THIS PAGE. THIS PAGE IS AN ARCHIVE.

This archive page covers approximately the dates between 1 July 2005 and 31 August 2005.

Post replies to the main talk page, copying the section you are replying to if necessary. (See How to archive a talk page.)

Speedy Deletes
I understand, but I usually am using for very obvious speedy deletes. Does over-the-top nonsense and vanity require that we waste time explaining what is so plainly obvious? --Girolamo Savonarola July 1, 2005 17:50 (UTC)

Bcat's WikiBank
Hi hydnjo. I've answered your username question at User talk:Bcat/Bank. Also, be sure to check out the offer to make 5β at User:Bcat/Bank — Bcat (talk | email) 6 July 2005 03:03 (UTC)

Link colors
Thanks for being so ready and willing to help out a fellow Classic-skin user in distress. As far as I can see (at least here, on my machine), #800080 is where the colour used to be. Panic over. Cheers, –Hajor 7 July 2005 04:27 (UTC)


 * In passing: Do you get that awful Classic display bug whereby pictures line up horizontally instead of vertically (eg, on Medinet Habu (location))? I'm utterly delighted after playing around with my standard.css and including the  line, which solves it. Never worked for me before but, as we saw on the Pump, I was having caching issues. All fixed now! –Hajor 7 July 2005 05:01 (UTC)

Searles Castle
I was on RC Patrol and that IP happened to edit a couple of things on my Watchlist - it turns out that it was probably a bot, since it made about 75 edits, changing "is" to "will be" and "a" to "an" and other annoying things. Adam Bishop 8 July 2005 16:30 (UTC)

?
Who are you talking to here, and what is your meaning? I honestly have no idea,

¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 8 July 2005 23:29 (UTC)


 * I was reacting to:
 * I said on the description page that if you didn't like it, I would delete it, you asshole. You are a completely absurd person, fuck you. john k 7 July 2005 15:05 (UTC)

I think that an Admin should be more ...well... more. hydnjo talk 9 July 2005 00:20 (UTC)

Ah, yeah, I agree. Its a weird situation. I don't know how on earth things escalated that way, but I am trying to find an answer thats good for the article. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 9 July 2005 00:26 (UTC)


 * Fine. I just want an Admin to represent this project in a way that ... well you know what I mean. hydnjo talk 9 July 2005 00:30 (UTC)

Yeah, there is the note on Jimbo's talk page, and abother on the mailing list to that affect. Maybe an RfC should be filed, but I'm unconvinced it would help, particularly if I created it. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 9 July 2005 00:35 (UTC)


 * Well shoot. I sure don't have the standing around here to do much except to complain. On the other hand Sam, your voice is quite respected. So do what you think is appropriate. hydnjo talk 9 July 2005 00:53 (UTC)

Yes, that was me, unfortunately
Not one of my prouder moments on wikipedia, I'm afraid... john k 9 July 2005 01:08 (UTC)


 * Well don't do it again or someone will whack you upside o' the head! hydnjo talk 9 July 2005 01:22 (UTC)


 * Hydnjo, you do realize that if that wasn't him, i. e. if John Kenney's account has been compromised, then that reply probably also isn't him? Bishonen | talk 9 July 2005 01:29 (UTC)
 * I suppose thats possible. "How will we ever know" seems like a song title. When I checked  John's contributions they seemed legitimate. Do you have other evidence? hydnjo talk 9 July 2005 01:48 (UTC)

Still alive and kicking!

 * ==Hey==
 * Hey Ralph, good to see you're still around and kickin' ***. hydnjo talk 9 July 2005 02:52 (UTC)


 * LOL! Yeah, I'm still here {blush}.  Bustin' out several new articles, too!  I just got through with Eagle Mountain, California which, in the wisdom of the wiki, credited not me but my damned ISP address.  Shoot.  Other than that, things are going well!  My other new articles are BNSF Harbor Subdivision, Rice, California, Alameda Corridor, Arizona-California Railway and Los Angeles and Mount Washington Railway Company, another anon article thanks to a wiki glitch.  Since I'm in a "railfan" mood, I'm trying to bring Disneyland Railroad to featured status.  Looks good!  Peer review is coming back positive.  Needs more pictures, but I'm heading out there next week anyway, camera in tow.  Added a couple of pictures to ParkZone.  I'm especially proud of my radio-controlled Cub that I painted as an L-4 Grasshopper surveillance plane.  Stay in touch...love you guys!! - Lucky 6.9 9 July 2005 03:22 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah! We'll be watchin' you. You are an inspiration to us newbies. We are so glad that you're back. And we'll be takin' a look at your new stuff to see if we can help. hydnjo talk 9 July 2005 03:48 (UTC)

Watch away, my friends! And, feel free to weigh in on the Disneyland Railroad article for better or worse. I'm overdue for a featured article. :) - Lucky 6.9 9 July 2005 04:12 (UTC)

reply on help desk
Hi - I just wanted to make sure you see my latest response on the help desk about finding when an article went FA. I really didn't mean my question as a snarky comment, and I'm sorry I phrased it in a way that it COULD be taken that way. I actually spend a lot of time responding to questions at the help desk and other forums here partly because some of the other folks who respond are snarky (and mean it), and I think it's completely inappropriate. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:38, July 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your kind concern. My response to you was sarcastic and I shouldn't have. Sorry about that. Anyway, it was proposed by Elfguy that the discussion be moved to WP:VP. I don't quite know how to do that soooo.... if you agree, could you help by moving the discussion there? I have made this same request to Elfguy at WP:HD. hydnjo talk 18:57, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

WDWR ad link
''Hey Brian, Could you take a look at the edit at 13:59, 10 July 2005 by 24.110.102.234. It seem like an ad link to me but I'd like your opinion so as to not rv a legitimate link. I'm sure that every travel agent would like to advertise here. Regards, hydnjo talk 18:32, 10 July 2005 (UTC)''


 * OK, I get it. Thanks. hydnjo talk 19:34, 10 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Sorry if you wanted to remove the link, and I stole it out from under you! :) Good call - that was a rather blatant advertising link. I'm not even sure we should have links to other Disney sites from the Disney articles, but since they're large fan sites, I'm leaving the others for now. - Brian Kendig 19:42, 10 July 2005 (UTC)


 * No problem. So what if you're bolder than me. ;-) As always, cheers from hydnjo talk 20:12, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Who (The team)
LOL. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; 21:36, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

''I'm sorry, I just can't help myself. So, anyway who's on first? And how about second? And, is that you on third? hydnjo talk 21:18, 10 July 2005 (UTC)''


 * So, the challenge is to come up with an outfield and pehaps even a pitcher. Happy hunting! hydnjo talk 21:43, 10 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I suppose a User named lefty would come in handy. hydnjo talk 21:56, 10 July 2005 (UTC)


 * As would a fielder. hydnjo talk 22:00, 10 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Even better, a right fielder. hydnjo talk 23:21, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

You
Are you two people using the same account? Howabout1 Talk to me! 01:41, July 11, 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes. My wife Heidi is blind so we collaborate. She does the thinking and I do the typing. That's why it's Heidi and Joe (hydnjo). ;-) hydnjo talk 01:53, 11 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Great. Thanks. Howabout1 Talk to me! 01:54, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

Serialism
Hey Heidi & Joe, how's it going!

I saw the brushfire over at serialism and left a note on the talk page. Honestly, their version was pretty good; so was Stirling's. I'm afraid it's gonna have to be talked out.... one can always hope. :-) Hope all is well with you!  Antandrus  (talk) 02:58, 11 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for getting back . All is well with us. We just saw the dust-up and thought it needed more attention than we could provide. If it's going well then we're sorry to have wasted your time. Thanks very much for looking into it and re-assuring us that all was on the up-and-up. Heidi & Joe


 * Oh you didn't waste my time at all! :-)  I just happened to see the note you left for Lucky; I didn't have serialism on my watch list so otherwise I would never have known ... Take care, Antandrus  (talk) 03:34, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

ethylene glycol
It belongs in the sense of mentioning the subject, but not in the sense of adding any useful information. The linked Apollo 1 article already has that link and it's much more relevant there. Thanks for the catch. --Laura Scudder | Talk 20:26, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Bank of WP
You know, I really dislike reverting talk page edits, but what else do you do with someone who evades blocks? The Bank of Wikipedia stuff itself was no big deal in and of itself, but the block evasion is another matter. So yes, an annoying pebble. And I apologize for reverting stuff on your talk page, most people don't like that, and I know it. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 19:53, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

If you dont like BoW Bank, you can always usubscribe from it.
So please drop us a note, in our talk page. yours truly. BoW Bank Employee33 07:01, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

A terrible disaster! Your deposit is 104 BoW coins.
We are not pleased to announce you that a fire took place in your account locker and all your previous transactions have been destroyed. Fortunately our trusted employees managed to keep in their backups how much coins you owned just before the disaster. To avoid any future disaster of your account locker, all your transactions along with your current deposit in our Bank will be mentioned for now on in your talk page, which seems to be more fire proof than your account locker in "Bank_of_Wikipedia" userspace was. Your deposit is 104 BoW coins. Please leave us a message, in your or in our talk page, in case your dont like your account in our bank anymore. We are terribly sorry for any inconvenience. Yours faithfully. BoW Bank Employee33 10:59, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

How to Program a Computer (From WP:RD)
So, here I am. With all this computing power and I can't do any programming. I'd like to tell my computer my latitude and longitude and instruct it to tell me where the Sun or Moon is right now. Or, tell it the givens in a Sudoku puzzle and have my computer work out the solution, or just give hints as desired. I know how to do the instructions via some programming language, I just don't know what program to buy (get) to do general stuff like that.

I know how to make an HP48 sing and dance but it's way too slow and memory limited to do anything really complex. So again, what programming language (program) would anyone suggest that I acquire for general purpose programming and which would of course include some graphics capability. Thanks for your suggestions as I don't want to buy something stupid. Probably relevant is that I'm using a Mac with OS 10.3.

Sorry for presenting such a difficult (obtuse) question but I'm hoping that someone can help me out. hydnjo talk 01:38, 21 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Look, if you're clever enough to program a HP48, you're clever enough to learn any general purpose programming language (though INTERCAL might be a challenge...).


 * If your primary interest is doing mathematically-oriented work, you may be interested in languages/systems like Matlab and its free workalike GNU Octave, or perhaps a computer algebra system (which is also essentially a specialised programming language) like Mathematica. You can try the free GNU Maxima but there's a fairly large capability and usability gap between the free and the proprietary computer algebra systems at this stage. 


 * For general-purpose programming, you have a wide range of choices. You can download Perl, Python, Java, as well as C and C++ compilers and tools for free, though free tools to simplify the process of building GUIs might be a little harder to come by (there's a number of them for Linux, but I don't know the situation on OS X).  I'd suggest you have a play with what's available for free before spending your hard-earned cash.


 * One more suggestion - if you're interested in solving puzzles like sudoku, finite domain constraint programming makes it a complete doddle (it's easier to write the program than solve one puzzle by hand). The free GNU Prolog comes with such a solver.  --Robert Merkel 02:19, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

As a generalization, I'm not looking for a solver but instead, a programming  language so that I can develop my own solver, hydnjo talk 02:28, 21 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your comprehensive response. I'll look into it all. I just didn't know where to start. hydnjo talk 02:34, 21 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Response to Robert Merkel:
 * Many thanks for your comprehensive response at WP:RD. I'll look into it all, I just didn't know where to start. Feel free to provide additional stuff (there or on my talk page) as to whatever comes to mind. hydnjo talk 02:44, 21 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I've heard it said that Java is good to start with, as it apparently teaches clean syntax and good habits, and also provides quick results and essentially renders programs that can work in most any operating system. Java is a private language, however - it is controlled by Sun Microsystems.  I would personally start with something like C (or C++), as it's pretty much the base most popular programming languages of today were inspired by, but I'm a pretty unusual person and into chronological order.  C is also quite low-level compared to Perl, Python, Ruby and Java.  Check out what the internet thinks: Programming Languages: The Internet's Current Opinion. &brvbar; Reisio 03:01, 2005 July 21 (UTC)


 * I'd recommend Java (although I'm a C++ programmer - Java is much cleaner). Download java from Sun and Thinking in Java by Bruce Eckel, and have fun.-gadfium 03:58, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

re: Hellmann's and Best Foods
Yes, I have meant to some research on the company, Best Foods, but I have not gotten around to doing it yet. So I would appreciate it if you could also add some content too.

BTW, my username is named after the infamous Zzyzx Road in California. And I've never really had the pleasure of writing nor of interacting with you two yet, even though I have seen you guys around the place. Anyway, take care. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:36, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Monty Hall problem
It's quite possible the Monty Hall talk page will be forever burdened by people who either don't get it or are fixated on the "right" interpretation and "know" all the rest must be a red herring... It's actually not Wikipedia's job to serve as a discussion forum for debunking such ideas over and over again, but it's probably unavoidable. :-) 82.92.119.11 20:51, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments relating to the diagram I did. I've just seen the discussion page and... good grief. I would have stayed out of the discussion, but someone critcised my diagram, so I had t defend it :-). Interestingly, the person critcising it failed to notcie the real error on it (two of teh labels were the wrong way round), which was spotted by Jarvis. I shall stay well away, unless said diagram gets changed. Tompw 10:51, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

User:Gong Bank
Thanks for looking after my talkspace''. For the record I have no problem with you or others rving inappropriate edits to my talk page. hydnjo talk 02:48, 26 July 2005 (UTC)''

Not a prob, I just feel bad for the users that still have like 10 posts on their page that weren't removed, makes for a long pointless talkpage. I did check to make sure that someone like UninvitedCompany previously rv'd a BoW post before doing it, I hate rv'n a users talk page, but figured this type of vandalism warranted it. Salut. &infin; Who ? &iquest; ? 06:02, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Hyphens
When an adjective plus noun are used as a noun phrase (such as "water lily") no hyphen is normally used, but when they're used adjectivally one normally is. This avoids ambiguity; for example in "I said hello to the French bread seller" did I greet a seller of French bread, or a French seller of bread? If the former, then one should write "the French-bread seller" (and preferably, if the latter, "French bread-seller"). Rather than trying to work out when ambiguity is possible and when not, it's usual to use the hyphen in all adejectival uses of such phrases. (I hope that that's clear; I wrote it in a bit of a rush.) --Mel Etitis ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 08:32, 28 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, that sound good to me (so long as it doesn't cause offence &mdash; I mean, it sounds a bit sexually explicit...). --Mel Etitis ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 14:06, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Hydroseeding
Seems that you have some interest in this subject. I just re-orged this article and merged in the topic on hydromulch. If you get a chance, have a look and see if you can improve or expand..... ike9898 13:35, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Computer programming
I had a question about computer programming and learning C recently, I thought maybe the answers that I got might help you out too... It can be found here. Dismas 17:30, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Homonym compliment
Thanks for the compliment! That was my first major edit to an article. Before now, I've just fixed typos, wording, etc. I was worried someone would be mad that I changed his or her words. I'm still not completely happy with it, but I think it's better than it was. I just wanted to prevent anyone else from being confused the same way I was. I feel emboldened by your feedback. Thanks! By the way, should I have posted this as a response on my talk page? JeremyStein 17:57, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Air France
Yeah, don't worry, that would have been an okay move for you to make. You'd have been moving it over a redirect that directed to that page, and the redirect was the only edit - that's the only circumstance that someone can move an article over an existing article. :) --Golbez 18:39, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

I put the two images in a table, does that help? -- Curps 02:48, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

ESL
Thanks for your help on the reference desk. I'm so happy I have another resource to use. I used ESL to mean "English as a Second Langauge". See you around! --HappyCamper 00:55, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks so much!
Hi, guys! Yeah, I made it! Thanks for the support. I shall wield the mop and bucket with care and diligence. :) - Lucky 6.9 19:45, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

homework
did I commit a faux pas by doing what's probably someone's homework? -Lethe | Talk 01:21, August 14, 2005 (UTC)


 * No. Not at all. I was just calling attention to the obvious. Sometimes I think that folks are getting a free ride from us which does us no harm, on the contrary, shows our willingness to help out. For me personally, I judge each question individually. If I think that I'm showing someone how to fish rather than giving them a handout, then I will answer accordingly. Just use your own judgement. I didn't mean to suggest that you were doing anything wrong and my sincere apology for coming across otherwise. Please continue to be as helpful as you see fit. I feel badly and I apologize if my comments intimidated you in any way. :-) hydnjo talk 01:55, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
 * That question "find a formula that relates n^3 and 100n" was pretty ridiculous. I think he or she must have been misreading the question.  I think my reply was more an attempt to show that the question is trivial than an honest answer.  -Lethe | Talk 07:57, August 14, 2005 (UTC)


 * And also, I know how wonderful you must feel if you can contribute to someone's understanding of Mathematics. ;-) hydnjo talk 02:13, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, indeed. The only thing more enjoyable than to successfully teach new mathematics to a willing student is to learn new mathematics from a willing teacher.  Unfortunately, with lousy homework problems like this, you're probably not teaching anyone anything.  -Lethe | Talk 07:57, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

Question Desk
I don't know if you're bored of this by now, but I wanted to let you know that my request at Template:MainPageIntro (a template included on the main page) to include a link to WP:QD has been completely ignored for about 8 days, despite admins repeatedly editing the page for other reasons. Superm401 | Talk 04:26, August 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, I noticed the picture on your user page. Is this account shared between two people? Superm401 | Talk 04:31, August 14, 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, Hydnjo is a contraction for Heidi and Joe. Heidi, my wife, is blind so we share this username. She has a lot of ideas about this project and so we collaborate. You didn't think all of my rants were coming from one person did you? And no, I'm not bored at all about the WP:QD project.
 * Anyway, you've been away for about a week now and so the catalyst (you) has been missing. I do believe that the inertia around here is ... well... significant. So, now that you're back, it is probably time to mount an effort to call attention to this proposal. My past experience suggests that there will be mighty resistance to our proposal, well intended or not; it makes me tired just to think about it.
 * So, what we are about is to reduce the annoying questions posted at the incorrect desk. We hear many complaints but so far no resonable solution offered except for this WP:QD triage place. No mind, this suggestion will be resisted fiercely, regardless of merit. No, I'm not bored, but I am discouraged. It has been my experience that new proposals are often not so much discussed but rather ignored (and thus dismissed).
 * I'll try to call attention to this by posing this effort with a few admins and see what happens. Then, unless there is some overwhelming reason to back-off we should just be bold and introduce a link on the Main page. hydnjo talk 05:31, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I did post it on the Administrators' noticeboard. However, it remains to be seen whether that will do any good.  If you have connections with admins, tell them to look at the request at Template talk:MainPageIntro.  I would post it to the main page myself, but anything there is proteted from editing.  As for "Heidi and Joe", I don't mind that you're sharing an account, but I don't know of any other accounts that are shared, so it's interesting.Superm401 | Talk 05:51, August 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * An admin has told me he doesn't want to add the link to the main page. I'm at least glad he bothered to comment.  He also suggested that I ask for people to put it on the community portal.  Since that page is unprotected, I took the liberty of doing it myself(I love wikis).  It's now on that page in two places.  Tell me how long it takes you to find each. Superm401 | Talk 01:53, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Featured Article date
Message to Superm401

I'm an avid Wikipedia'' reader. One of the things that interests me is the evolution of articles. Of most interest is how an article evolves after it has been published as a featured article on the Main page. After having some difficulty with finding the spesific revision of the article on it's Main page publication date I made a proposal to include that date within the "Featured article" template. Well, "excuse me" for suggesting such a stupid idea was pretty much the response I got. So, I'll just read for a while until my ego heals.''

As much as I favor the WP:AQ concept and the good that it would do for the project, I don't seem to have the fire in my belly'' to help out any more. Best wishes and good luck, hydnjo talk 02:21, 15 August 2005 (UTC)''

WP:AQ at community portal
Message to Superm401

''Good job with placing WP:AQ (twice). It was pretty easy to spot both locations (amid the sea of blue links) because of the color change that happens on recently visited links. Please forgive my moody comments above. I still believe that the optimal location is the Main page for the obvious reasons that we've discussed. But hey, community portal is an excellent start. I'll continue to support and initiate any efforts to get increased exposure for new users. Also, I'll see if I can get some admin support. In better spirits today ... ;-) hydnjo talk 20:40, 15 August 2005 (UTC)''
 * Doubt anyone will even notice the change. Besides, I've been yelled at before here.  I'm not about to leave in protest. Superm401 | Talk 20:15, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * On a totally unrelated note, has Heidi tried Spoken Wikipedia? Superm401 | Talk 20:19, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

current date for an article
Hi - Not sure if you're still watching the thread you started at Village_pump_%28proposals%29, but if you want to put the current date in an article you can type 5 ~ characters (like signing a talk page, but one more). If you want, you could create a template that takes an argument (the date) and generates the standard text so you'd edit the talk page and add a line like:. -- Rick Block (talk) 04:31, August 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * So, what exactly do you want the template to do? I certainly know how to mess with templates.  Do you want something like "featureddate" as described above (that would expand to the text you've added by hand)?  -- Rick Block (talk) 19:08, August 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * I just discovered that there's an archive by month, see Today's featured article. This means a google search can likely be used to discover the date, for example searching for site:en.wikipedia.org "today's featured article" "Monty Hall problem" yields a hit to the July 2005 by month archive, and from there getting the exact date is no problem.  Is this good enough?  Given the archives, it wouldn't be hard at all to write a program that would construct a complete index as well.  Let me know what you think. -- Rick Block (talk) 22:01, August 16, 2005 (UTC)


 * So, searching at google for site:en.wikipedia.org "big bang" "today's featured article" I see it was featured in Feb 2005, and looking at the Feb 2005 archive page (which is the top google hit in this case), I see it was featured on Feb 23. I gather you'd prefer some method in the article itself or its talk page, but as long as the date can be determined fairly easily do you care how it's done (and it sounds like you might)?  We could change the "featured" template to take a date as an argument (actually, without changing it you can add "|date" and the date will be in the wikisource but not used for anything).  Doing anything like this would likely require cooperation from the featured article editor, but we could ask. -- Rick Block (talk) 23:08, August 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * I noticed the overlapping edits as well (sigh). Before your last message to me I left a request on Raul654's talk page (not noticing the previous discussion you had with him).  I guess we'll see what he says.  I think the bottom line is likely if he doesn't see any utility in doing it he won't.  -- Rick Block (talk) 23:44, August 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Re promotion date vs. publication date - I understand your point, although I think the case for manually doing something to preserve the publication date given the existence of the archives is actually weaker than the case to manually do something to preserve the promotion date (which, I think, is currently really hard to figure out). In particular, I don't think anyone actually touches the articles (or their talks) as they are featured on the main page (I think it all happens "out of band") so I'd expect Mark to be more resistant to adding such a step.  Promotion to featured requires touching the talk - slightly changing the touch doesn't seem like it should be a big deal.  If we can get him to agree to this (small) step, then let's pursue the next step.  Even if he doesn't agree to do anything about the publication date, the data is available.  I've written an indexer for CFD discussions (see Categories_for_deletion/Archive_debates).  It wouldn't be very hard to write a similar script to generate an index for articles featured on the main page.  -- Rick Block (talk) 00:40, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, after Monty Hall problem hit the main page I couldn't keep up with the changes. It's calmed down a bit now and I've thought about rereading it, but haven't gotten around to it. -- Rick Block (talk) 01:22, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

adminship
Actually, I'm a little surprised no one has dredged up this edit. Sage advice - don't drink and edit. -- Rick Block (talk) 04:08, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Evil is a little harder. Actually evil is a LOT harder.  Can't think of anything.  Go f--- yourself :). -- Rick Block (talk) 04:19, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Aha! I've always thought that those were some of my best (boldest) edits. I must admit however, that I have hade to rv a few of them. I tend to be bashfool sometimes as I take note of the overwhelming talent around here. So, I sometimes drink and edit (god and his spirits help us all). And, how exactly does one f--- himself? Jeesh ... ;-) hydnjo talk 04:31, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Er, never-mind, I found the link. ;-) hydnjo talk 05:06, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I thought you were going to be gone for a while (see below) - or are you back? -- Rick Block (talk) 23:20, August 19, 2005 (UTC)


 * conspicuous? nah.  I try to be nice - even to trolls.  They're people, too.  Maybe user:Coolcat will break the monotony (see Requests_for_adminship/Func). -- Rick Block (talk) 01:32, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Buh-bye
For now. Later. ;-)
 * Come back soon. I've taken the liberty of adding WP:AQ to the main page talk header. Superm401 | Talk 17:48, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, why did you post Buh-bye to my talk if you weren't leaving? And no, I didn't wish you were leaving. :) Superm401 | Talk 03:39, August 20, 2005 (UTC)


 * Just in a funky mood that night and and sometimes guilty of EWI. Sorry about the mixup. ;-) hydnjo talk 16:02, 20 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Ah now I see it in the Edit Summary on 21:25, 14 August 2005.  Jeesh I guess I was EUI. hydnjo talk 02:33, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Left Bank of the Merrimack
Thanks for catching that, sadly enough, I haven't updated that blog and done that show in awhile now due to my Wikiholism... Karmafist 18:34, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Cool, I just started an a Real Estate Agency in Londonderry! Small world, huh? Also, i'm wondering if you've seen The Wikipedians in New Hampshire Category yet, you just need to add on your user page. This new category is somewhat confusing given the existing Wikipedians/New Hampshire, but if it helps us get together as Granite Staters and start some kind of New Hampshire based Wikiproject like Neutrality did for Vermont, that'd be great. Karmafist 00:57, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

==Category:Wikipedians in New Hampshire==
 * Oops, I did it again. Seem that I've overlooked Wikipedians/New Hampshire which is another place besides Category which as you can see is pretty sparse (I didn't even see you there before today). I'll have to add us, thanks for the tip. hydnjo talk 01:51, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Richard Nixon
Why would a question on who Nixon addressed his letter of resignation to start an edit war? It is a fairly objective question. EdwinHJ | Talk 20:52, 20 August 2005 (UTC)


 * ==WP:RD==
 * My response to the question was intended to humorous which is why I prefaced my signature with ";-)". The reason for my "humorous" response is that historically, questions about RMN. JFK, GWB ... usually result in a polarized back-and-forth having more to do with politics rather than the essence of the question. My sincere apologies to you or any others who may have been put-off by my casual rather than serious response.


 * I am, by the way, looking forward a serious response to this question and I'm sorry if my comment got things off on the wrong foot. hydnjo talk 22:01, 20 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I was just confused and thought perhaps I had unknowingly stepped into a minefield. Thanks for the reply! EdwinHJ | Talk 22:10, 20 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, that's always a concern around here, Religion and/or Politics. NPOV is often the first thing to go out the window. It's though the old proverb "Never argue with someone who knows he's right" is often demonstrated over and over again on these pages. That's why I made light of a seriously intended question. hydnjo talk 22:31, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Huh, I thought I did?
It's at User talk:Karmafist/Archive1, I had it up there on the page. Karmafist 03:58, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Misunderstanding
Also placed on EdwinHJ's talk page I think you totally misunderstood the message Hydnjo... That's the problem with written messages, you can't look at somebody's eyes! I even made a smiley ;-) to show I was joking! What I meant was that only if you would attack Peter Lee (i.e. revert his "edits"), he would attack you back, saying "you are ignorant and naive" (as he has done many times with other Wikipedians!)... This was just a conditional statement about Peter Lee, I would never do this myself!!! I don't even know you, so why would I?!? Sorry you misunderstood the message... Gotta be more careful with my jokes... BTW, you are making a BIG mistake saying that "plenty of others" are rv'ing me to death. This is all coming from one single person with a dynamic ip address... Ask JeremyA!! Again, my apologies for the misunderstanding. I hope you now understand I hold absolute nothing against you, Edwin, Splash, nor anybody else on Wikipedia, besides this Peter Lee... Regards, -- Mario R 10:17:47, 2005-08-22 (UTC)


 * Posted on Mario Roering's talk page.
 * I'm begging your pardon. I was totally off base having hastily mis read your statement at EdwinHJ's. I have also been mistaken while making a humorous comment and I know how that made me feel. I apologize to you for my harsh comments. hydnjo talk 16:27, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

re: Did you see
Yes, I tried to fix it, but this will require some more though about how to do this properly. --R.Koot 19:11, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

All page TOC
You may be interested to look at how the Reference desk/all page TOC looks now. Please also see Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk for how the discussion over how this worked out. Superm401 | Talk 02:22, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Reference desk still has a full page listing at WP:RD/ALL
Hi Hydnjo - I thought it would be good to let you know that there is a "see all questions" link at the reference desk. It's located at Reference desk/All, with shortcuts WP:RD/A or WP:RD/ALL. You can also get to this "all listing page" by clicking on the bottom right hand corner of the reference desk page here at Reference desk. I really liked your participation on the reference desk, and if you get a chance, I hope you'd consider trying out the functionality of that page. --HappyCamper 23:22, 26 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree with you 100%. See my post on the RD talk page for details... --HappyCamper 01:52, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


 * You do realize how nice that sounds, right? :-) --HappyCamper 02:38, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

A nice shiny barnstar!


I have been meaning to give you a barnstar for a while - the recent changes to the reference desk have made it even more fitting to do so. Here is one for your supportive and encouraging voice - on the reference desk, and on Wikipedia as a whole. We're so lucky to have an editor like you around here! I hope you'll treasure it - may it always remind you of the positive impact your contributions have had on Wikipedia. Cheers! --HappyCamper 02:51, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I think this is a very well deserved barnstar, many times over. My sincerest regards! :D --HappyCamper 03:24, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Stay tuned...
Hey there! In case you missed it, check at this place. Also, see on my talk page for more comments. It's the start of the week and I've had less time to spend on Wikipedia lately.

I really think you're one of the nicest Wikipedians I've met so far. And please feel free to share your wit! There was one time on the reference desk when I was asked something, and I answered that I was "Just a Wikipedian". This was the response I got on my talk page (from my archives):


 * Just a Wikipedian - Yes, it's perfect. So many potential layers of meaning - like baklava, or mille-feuilles. TOO BAD IT WILL NEVER WORK! hee hee. --Mothperson 22:12, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC) .

I laughed so hard when I read that, just like when I read your comment about Bilbo Baggins. I mean, where did baklava and mille-feuilles come from?! Sort of whimsical really, which is is exactly why it's so funny! Personally, I'm really greatful for this humour, it really lightens the mood around here and reminds me of how wonderful this project is. :-)

Anyway, back to the RD talk...still some more stuff to do, and more ideas to share as well! --HappyCamper 02:00, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

featured articles
Hi - I'm working on List of Wikipedians by featured article nominations. It's currently auto-generated from the FAC logs, which I'm finding to be not really regular enough to make it work smoothly. As an intermediate step, I've created (not posted yet) a list of all the featured articles with their nominator(s). It seems like it might be worthwhile adding the original featured date, and (this is really why I think you might be interested) the main page appearance date and keep this updated as a page. Eventually we might have to break it down by year or something, but for now I think a single list would do. I assume if such a thing existed, you'd be interested (right?). Please let me know what you think about this. -- Rick Block (talk) 19:55, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Response to Rick:
 * List of Wikipedians by featured article nominations
 * Hello Rick, well, that's one I never came across before. I'm assuming that you know about the listing of FAs by category at WP:FA and the index by date at WP:TFA. My own interest came about while reading some FA or another and wondering how the article had evolved (or devolved) since it became a FA and of equal or even more relevance since being published on the Main Page. I've been tagging the Main Page articles for a few weeks now (on their talk page) as a temporary measure after finding little enthusiasm from others to memorialize this date somehow within the FA template (to indicate the date of promotion) and then to have perhaps a different template after MP publication to record both dates. I think my concern is legitimate in that the current FA template gives no clue as to its vintage and as we can see at WP:FFA, some articles do not age very well. Please let me know if your plans address memorializing these dates within the article's talk page somehow. hydnjo talk 20:01, 31 August 2005 (UTC)


 * An article's historical benchmarks
 * ''These dates in my estimation are usually the the most volatile events in an article's history:
 * Date that an an article was started: Special:Newpages. Usually available.
 * Date that an article was presented for peer review: WP:PR. Difficult to determine.
 * Date that an article was presented as a potential FA: WP:FAC. Difficult to determine.
 * Date that an article was promoted to FA. Findable by looking through the history for the featured template.
 * Date that an article was featured on the Main Page. Is findable with knowhow but not prominent.
 * Sometimes: Date that an article was demoted and noted as a former FA: WP:FFA. Very seldom and usually without great fanfare.
 * Sometimes: Date of re-presentation .... etc.


 * So, I think that these dates should be readily available for the article's starter, contributors, readers, curious, students of wiki culture or anything else. Sorry to dump this on your talk page but it came to mind and I was already here. ;-) hydnjo talk 22:59, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

First, List of Wikipedians by featured article nominations is brand new - I'm still working on it. Second, the intermediate list I'm creating can have whatever we'd like. To make it relatively easy to update (I think it will have to be updated manually), I think the primary sort will have to be by FAC promotion date. I'm going through the MP archives and adding the date of MP appearance. These dates won't be on the article's talk page, but in this separate list. I'll post the list fairly soon (still working on it). I'll let you know when I post it and ask you what you think. -- Rick Block (talk) 00:46, September 1, 2005 (UTC)


 * I've posted the source lists I used to create the list by nominator. They are Featured articles nominated in 2005, Featured articles nominated in 2004, and Featured articles nominated in 2003.  These lists are annotated with the main page appearance for each featured article.  -- Rick Block (talk) 17:26, September 5, 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads-up. The information will be be quite helpful in tagging prior talk pages with their Main page date. I'd still like to see the Main page date (going forward) just be part of the selection process rather than what I'm doing now. I feel as though I'm going against the grain somehow. What do you think? hydnjo talk 18:40, 5 September 2005 (UTC)


 * BTW, with your help I've tagged the Monty Hall problem with its Main page date. I hope I got it right. ;-) hydnjo talk 22:16, 5 September 2005 (UTC)


 * How about adding a description of how to find the relevant dates for a featured article someplace prominent (like on WP:FA, or Featured_article_statistics or Featured article candidates/Featured log)? I think:
 * Main page appearance by date can be found in the archives at Today's featured article and by article by searching Featured articles nominated in 2003 (and 2004 and 2005).
 * Promotion to featured status by date can be found at Featured article candidates/Featured log and by article by searching the by year indices I've created.
 * Peer review and FA nomination are generally linked from the talk page, which makes these dates fairly discoverable by article.
 * Defeature and renominations are rare, but we could also describe how to find these. I guess my bottom line is I'm not sure it's worth adding the main page date to the talk page, given an adquate alternative exists.  So, I guess this becomes a question for you - do you think the alternative (search the index pages) is reasonable?  -- Rick Block (talk) 22:38, September 5, 2005 (UTC)


 * Obviously I'm not making my point with any degree of clarity. Allow me one more try. I happen to read an article that has been prominently tagged on its talk page as being a Featured article. So, I casually ask a question in my mind: was it a featured article last week, last month, last year or when? How does this version compare to the Featured version? Did it get better or worse since then? I'm not a student of article evolution, I'm just curious. If I were a student of article evolution I could track down the version in question with some effort and time. But just being curious, eh, there's plenty more to read around here so I go on. But, if that date had been easily available (think right there on the talk page) then I may well have gone on to a better understanding of an article's evolution (some articles age better than others) and been amazed or prompted to fix some deterioration. At first I didn't think that I was asking for a great deal within a Featured article's CV but I was wrong. It seems to some to be a big deal and an unreasonable request. I'm not in any way demeanimg your work, in fact, it will be quite helpful to anyone's searching an article's history. My comments are directed towards finding a way (going forward) to memorialize the Main page date within the article itself. Thanks for listening, hydnjo talk 23:38, 5 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Also, as time and enthusiasm permit, I will definitely use your new WP reference pages to help tag prior FA pages with their Main page date. I am grateful for your help. hydnjo talk 00:05, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Just to echo back what I'm hearing, you want the "featured on main page" date to be prominently indicated on the page (or it's talk). This is what you've been doing page by page (after the fact) and you'd like Raul654 (or whoever does the work behind the scenes related to geting a page on the main page, which I think is Raul654) to do it as part of making a page today's featured page.  I really can't think of any automatic way to do this, and I think any way (period) would require an edit to the page (or its talk).  You've talked to Raul654 about this, and he seems to be somewhat resistant.  I can't find a description of the maintenance procedures for Today's featured article, but I suppose Wikipedia talk:Tomorrow's featured article would be as good a place as any to bring this up (again).  Rather than add the text like you've been doing, you might create a template similar in style to template:featured indicating the date, but I really doubt you'll be able to get Raul654 to edit the articles to add it.  You feel strongly enough about this to be doing it yourself, so you might propose an addendum to the "featured on main page" process along the lines of "Raul654 does his stuff, and then Hydnjo adds the mpfeatured template to the talk page".  I think (aside from the fancy shmancy template) you've been WP:BOLD and have effectively been doing this anyway.  If you'd like to institutionalize it as "standard practice" you'll have to get consensus behind it.  I think it's a reasonable idea (I also think it's reasonable to add a date to the featured template).  -- Rick Block (talk) 00:21, September 6, 2005 (UTC)


 * You have no idea how much your considerate response means to me. I'm delighted with your echo in that it clearly articulates what I've been trying to say. At this point, I think that providing a foothold for the feature-master to dig-in on this point would not be constructive. I'm going to let it slide for a while as I quietly do my additive thing going forward (and backwards with your new pages). I'm not sure that I'm up to a challenge right now but I thank you for suggesting the avenues to approach this in the future. Warmest regards, hydnjo talk 00:42, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


 * If you'd like to use a template, I'd suggest something that does something like:


 * where MONTHDAY and YEAR are passed in as parameters. If this template existed, your edit to the talk page would consist of adding the template specifying the date (not particularly different than what you're already doing).  If you're template averse for any reason, let me know and we can create this togethter. -- Rick Block (talk) 01:28, September 6, 2005 (UTC)


 * I am without a doubt template chalenged. Try as I might they always came out wrong so I quit trying. You make it seem so simple that I feel embarrassed at my lack of effort. Thanks for pulling me along, that's the same thing I did with my kids. ;- hydnjo talk 01:47, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


 * In case you missed it in my reply, I love the template. Thank you for helping me along in this matter (damn, that sounds so stiff and formal) lets try again: Hey Rick, champion of the Monty logic despite all of the attacks, thanks for hearing my side of things in (I think) a fair way. I feel encouraged by your comments. I was beginning to wonder. hydnjo talk 02:05, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


 * So, um, does this mean you want to create a template? What would you like to call it?  Something related to template:featured and also related to today's featured article.  I note template:TFA already exists and seems to be related.  If you yank and put the table from above into a page called template:whatever (replacing MONTHDAY with  and YEAR with  ) then you'd invoke it with  .    If you want to try this I'll help if necessary.  And, BTW, no apologies necessary.  Templates and meta-templates and programming and mathematical logic are what I DO and have done for a very long time (so, are very second nature to me).  I'm sure it's just a familiarity thing.  If you're interested, and you do one or two (or ten or twenty every year for thirty years :) ) I'm sure you'll get the hang of it.  And, further BTW, thanks for the compliment (hearing your side).  I actually do try to listen.  -- Rick Block (talk) 04:33, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * ''Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this, not by any means for lack of interest. I would very much like to invoke a template as you have suggested. I really don't how to set it up though. How does something like (Featured Article Date) seem to you? Thanks again for your support. hydnjo talk 02:25, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Oops, I just noticed - pun not intended. ;-) hydnjo talk 02:31, 8 September 2005 (UTC)''
 * To avoid the pun (and, I generally prefer not to use acronyms), how about ?  Renaming is certainly possible later, so it's probably not worth agonizing too much about the name.  To set it up, you create a page like template:featured day (just like template:featured) and put the table in it, using  for the first argument,  for the second argument (you can also do the arguments by name, but I suspect by number is easier in this case).  Then, you reference it in an article with  .  If you want to do the arguments by name, you'd use something like  instead of  (and  instead of  ) and (in the article) something like  -- Rick Block (talk) 03:35, September 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * I jumped the gun before hearing back from you. Sorry about that. Should I tag it for speedy and start over or move it to a new name? Now I'm embarrassed. :-( hydnjo talk 03:44, 8 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for wikifying the date, I forgot to follow your instructions. If I move to say  what happens to the articles withe original template? hydnjo talk 15:50, 8 September 2005 (UTC)


 * If you move the template, I believe the old name stays as a redirect and it's then usable under either name. It's probably good form to edit the references to the new name, but I don't think this is particularly necessary (on the other hand, they're only like 2 of them or something, right?).  BTW - I just assumed you preferred FAD (which would be OK with me).  If you want to move it to a new name, I'm OK with that, too.  If you move it to a new name and fix the references and want to get rid of the redirect, let me know and I can delete the redirect (with my awesome admin powers!).  -- Rick Block (talk) 01:50, September 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * Geesh, we may have to archive soon just because of this section! Please feel free to clear out your talk page, as you can see I've been duplicating here. Anyway, I started FAD before realizing that acronyms were not the best form for template names and I'm assuming that the reason is that the name should be indicative of its function. Also assuming that this template is going to be around for a while and will be seen in lots of future edit windows I would like to change (move) it at this time. In order to avoid confusion with Featured, I'd prefer to stay away from the word featur(ed) altogether. I'd like your opinion on Mainpage date before I do anything else out of sorts. And yes I agree that going back and editing the now three articles is no big deal. I shall await your guidance (again). hydnjo talk 04:01, 9 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Mainpage date is perfect. --- Rick Block (talk) 14:05, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

Template:FAD
''Hi again. I tried to speedy this but have met some resistance, see Template talk:FAD. You may want to comment at as I have named you as a coconspirator. hydnjo talk 12:30, 10 September 2005 (UTC)''
 * Thanks for vote but Zzyzx11 still disagrees on the speedy part. I don't really want to do battle over this so I'm not going to retag, I'll keep an eye out in case someone tries to use it (someone already has) and edit it out. On another note, I think you should receive credit here  and on its links. Let me know if you object to co-authorship. hydnjo talk 20:41, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks like Zzyzx11's agreeing with the delete now, so I think all will be good at tfd (I'll watch I guess, and if the tide seems to be turning I'll suggest FAD become a version of template:featured that indicates the date an article achieves featured status - which I'm guessing is where you'd really like to go with this). Re credit - I'm perfectly willing to share, but I don't see how it matters (it's not like we're filing a patent or anything, right?).  I promise I won't begrudge you any glories that come your way as a result of this.  You've been fighting for it for months, so I think you deserve at least most of the credit. -- Rick Block (talk) 22:16, September 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * I doubt that this will gather any resistance to delete but just in case you have an excellent Plan B worked out. Also, my response line is: "As much as I would love full credit, this template is actually the result of a collaboration between Rick Block and myself. hydnjo talk 23:02, 10 September 2005 (UTC)"