User talk:IJBall/Archive 22

my article moved to draft

 * You need to start paying attention to Wikipedia's notability guidelines, like WP:GNG, before creating articles in Mainspace. You have already been warned about this. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 12:06, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Double Dare
You wanna get this this, per obvious WP:NOTRS? Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 19:54, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Done. Needs to be an inline source as well... If that is true, though, I am sure Nick will publish a press release on it, that can probably be had at The Futon Critic, so you may want to keep your eyes peeled... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:59, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Taken care of now by them. I'll say, though, this user is too revert happy and too hasty. You saw what happened at the I Am Frankie LOE, both with the, in my opinion, DE and then updating the date the second Zap2it updated. People act like people's lives are in danger if an article is not updated right away to reflect a scheduling change. In any case, they could have just as easily re-added the information without reverting you. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 20:09, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Yep – see the topic above this one. I'm in the camp: Just wait until it airs!! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:11, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Another flagrant example of what you're talking about – last time I looked, it's not November 2 anywhere in the U.S. for quite a few hours yet... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:14, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Two Cents
Hi IJBall,, , Would are you take on citations? Should the title be using 'Title' or Title (italicized) in citations? On the links, titles are ‘Title’. — Lbtocthtalk  21:58, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I usually put titles for refs in exactly the same format as they appear in that source – so it the source's title uses italics, I use italics in the ref; but if the source's title uses '[Title]', then I stick to using single quotes in the ref's title. So, based on that, I would put both of these refs' titles in the "style" of the first one cited. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:43, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I italicize them per our guidelines here and ignore the source formatting. It's like if a source had "You Are The Greatest Person In A Year" or "The Guy on the Road is Melting" for episode titles, we would appropriately type them as "You Are the Greatest Person in a Year" and "The Guy on the Road Is Melting." Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 23:06, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I usually put titles for refs in exactly the same format as they appear in that source as well. As I see most articles are this way. — Lbtocthtalk  22:20, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Move request for Big Brother (Thai TV series)
Hey IJBall could you do an uncontroversial move for me? Could you move Big Brother (Thai TV series) to its correct title Big Brother Thailand? I found a source that supports that this is the correct name and added it to the article but I'm unable to move it. Thanks  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  16:07, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Move request for Velký Bratr
Could you do one more move for me? Could you move Velký Bratr to Big Brother (Czech TV series)? I haven't found any English sources that talk about this edition but I have found a Spanish source and a few Czech sources that refer to the program by both Big Brother and Velký Bratr. There are also sources that talk about the UK version and use both names as well. So I am confident this will be uncontroversial as well and better align the article with both WP:ENGLISH and WP:NCTV. Also as a bonus the article logo uses both names as well :)  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  16:45, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:01, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Studio One (UAE TV program)
United Arab Emirates at List_of_adjectival_and_demonymic_forms_for_countries_and_nations does not have "UAE" listed as a valid option.
 * 1) intitle:"(UAE " - gives 1 result, this.
 * 2) intitle:"(Emirati " - gives 15 results.
 * 3) intitle:"(Emirian " - gives no results.
 * 4) intitle:"(Emiri " - gives no results.

So from this I'd say the best option is to continue with "Emirati". --Gonnym (talk) 15:28, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 * If you really feel strongly about it, I would suggest taking it to WP:RM (if you do that, I would include some of the other "Emirati" articles for comparison). But, if you do, I'm probably going to stick with "UAE" as the better choice... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:30, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

RE: Lauren Lee Smith
You are harassing me and I don't appreciate it. Please do not contact me again. 16:03, 3 November 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mickeydee15 (talk • contribs)
 * You are ignoring both a Talk page discussion, and guidelines (specifically MOS:ACCESS), on this, and also going against consensus. Pointing all of this out to you, after you continue to ignore it, is not "harassment". You could try discussing the issue. Or you could just knock off your problematic editing... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:07, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Oops. I think you just contacted them again. 😉 Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 16:23, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 * But I didn't post to his Talk page – Requesting that certain people not post to your Talk page is probably kosher (though unenforceable, outside of reverting). Requesting that you not be contacted at all by certain editors (short of an WP:IBAN) is basically an attempt to WP:Game the system as they're asking to never be made aware when they're making mistakes or actively flouting policies and guidelines. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:27, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Bizaardvark
Gotta love how people think they know more than a network. (And like you said on MPFitz's talk page, DeVore Ledridge didn't say final shooting EVER, just final shooting.)

Bizaardvark season 3 wikia
 * Trivia section: This is the final season of the series as confirmed by Nick and More and DeVore Ledridge's instagram.
 * Good comment: Disney Channel didn't confirm that Bizaardvark was canceled.
 * Bad response #1: It didn't needed to be confirmed by Disney Channel to end/cancel the show.
 * Bad response #2: It's definitely the end. Look at the plot of the last episode of Season 3.

There are so many times where a plot synopsis makes something feel like it's one thing when it's not. And remember how people were 100% certain Bunk'd was over after the second season? And look! A third season happened! Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 04:06, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Good Morning!!!
You got it: the problem is the sequence of three non-alphanumeric characters. [I don't speak regex, so I can't confirm this myself, but I've seen people say that this is a problem with the blacklist.] Admins are generally able to override the blacklist, so I've moved it to Good Morning!!! (Australian TV program). If it turns out that that wasn't a good idea, please ask me to return it to its original place or to put it somewhere else; I'm happy to help. Nyttend (talk) 01:43, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * – No, that's good! It's actually only the first part of a two-part move that I had planned: now that you've moved to Good Morning!!! (Australian TV program) (which is correctly disambiguated as per WP:NCTV), I'm going to move it to the "final" title Good Morning with Rosemary. It seems like the show was known by both titles, but we've got a Sydney Morning Herald source that calls the show the latter... Anyway, thanks again! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 01:49, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * So why couldn't you have just moved it to Rosemary and asked me to create a redirect at (Australian TV program)? There would have been fewer double redirects :-)  Nyttend (talk) 01:55, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * That's just how I roll with these specific kinds of situations... Though, you're right – I could have done it the other way, now that I think about it! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 01:57, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Makes sense to me :-) If I got hit by the blacklist when trying to do this, I'd definitely move the page and find an admin to create the redirect. I guess we just have different mental processes :-)  Nyttend (talk) 02:01, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Joshua Rush
Proper section order? Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 02:21, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * That way is fine... What I don't like is separate 'Early life' and 'Personal life' sections – that's basically not necessary. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:20, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

List of episodes or season page?
I'm amazed by the amount of "List of episodes" articles that are actually a season page which should have been named " (season #)". I'm not missing something right? --Gonnym (talk) 15:55, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * No, you are not. List of episodes articles are supposed to list multiple seasons. If they are just for a single-season TV show, they should be merged back to the parent article as per long-standing WP:TV practice. If it's a "season 2" type article, it should be at "[TV show] (season 2)" not "List of [TV show] season 2 episodes". However, a number of these don't qualify for separate "season" articles, and will need to be merged back to the List of episodes article. That's why I haven't tackled these yet – they're going to take time to do them right... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:07, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Backstage
I think it's only fair that you update the links for Backstage under each of three maintenance sections here and under "Ended" here, don't you? And on the live episode and character lists as well. I mean, you are the one who requested the move. 😎 Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 17:19, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I'll get to it when I can. I'm unfortunately busy today... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:08, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Blue collar?
What's a blue collar? Making a sandbox page for this now. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 20:14, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * "Blue collar" = working class "trade"-type job (e.g. plumbing, construction, etc.). "White collar" = middle-class, middle-management "service sector"-type job (e.g. IT manager, or finance, etc.). This is a simplification, but that's basically it. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:26, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

X-Men TV series
Do you know what the name of X-Men (TV series) is? Is it "X-Men" or "X-Men: The Animated Series"? --Gonnym (talk) 20:28, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I say that X-Men (i.e. X-Men (TV series)) should be used as the primary title – when I watched it back in the day, I don't ever recall it being called X-Men: The Animated Series. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:31, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok, strange. For me I think I always remembered it as "the animated series". Anyways all good. --Gonnym (talk) 20:35, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Category and default sort
Quick question. If an article has a default sort (The End (The X-Files)) and I'm adding a category to that article from a template. If I add the category as "Category|title" it will override that sort for the cat I added, right? Your answer will save me a bit of testing :) --Gonnym (talk) 20:37, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I have no idea. I actually don't pay much attention to how categories work, and I only know how to use DEFAULTSORT now because I've seen it so many times. But I honestly don't know the answer to your question! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:43, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok, seems to override the default sort. --Gonnym (talk) 21:06, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Notice
This is a courtesy to let you know that there is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is User:Dimas gilang persistent disruptive editing.  Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 06:36, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Ice Road Truckers
Can you take a look at this? I'm pretty sure that's not how it works, and once this legal stuff is sorted out, there's nothing stopping them from filming this upcoming winter with premieres returning in summer 2019. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 14:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
 * According to the LoE article, the last new episode aired on November 9, 2017. So it's now been more than a year than the last episode aired, and putting a "close" date on the series is appropriate according to the template docs. Now, if the legal stuff gets sorted out, and they announce another season, it can always be changed back to "present" at that point. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:09, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

AWB
I think I saw you use AWB, am I correct? If so could you explain to me how that works? --Gonnym (talk) 10:29, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I actually don't use WP:AWB – that's why I keep having to go to WP:AWB/Tasks to make requests there. The original "flavor" of AWB requires a PC, and as I've been using Macs since 1989, I've never had a system that can run the original AWB. Now, there is a "java" flavor of AWB – WP:JWB – that I've never had time to look into or try. And, either way, I think you still need to apply for "AWB rights" via WP:PERM, so that's a whole other part of the process... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:13, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

User:LOVI33 at Sabrina Carpenter discography
This user continues to make disruptive edits of adding rowspans to tables, which violate WP:ACCESS, despite several warnings to them not to do this. I'm very close to reporting them for this, but may go on to give them one last (untemplated) warning. MPFitz1968 (talk) 18:42, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Definitely, if they do it again after this, report them to WP:ANI (or WP:AIV – I'd probably start there, and then go to ANI if declined at AIV). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:45, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I have put a strong warning on their talk page - . MPFitz1968 (talk) 18:49, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Related: the article is currently fully protected due to the content dispute. I can ping, who protected the article, to see what they think regarding the matter; we can go to the talk page of the article to state our position. MPFitz1968 (talk) 00:48, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I am getting ready for bed as I have to get up at an uncivilized hour tomorrow. But by all means go to the article talk page and discuss this with all of the involved editors, who should be pinged. WP:BRD is the operative guideline here. Seek consensus and request outside opinions if needed. The page is only locked for 24hrs. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:54, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Basically, I already had... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 01:37, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

LOVI33 just did it again. I've reverted. I'm leaving it to you to decide where to report them. Just let me know where you do, as I'm sure to comment. This is pure disruptive editing now. Pinging too, so Geradlo's aware that his Talk page messages were ignored as well. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:33, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Filed report at AIV. MPFitz1968 (talk) 15:37, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Filed another report at AIV for their edit here. That was at 3:00 UTC (about three and a half hours ago), and I'm still awaiting admin action. If I remember right, the report is removed after around six hours if no action is taken. Should LOVI33 continue making ACCESS-violation edits at the article in the immediate future without there being any further sanction, what would you suggest? MPFitz1968 (talk) 06:31, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
 * If AIV ignores the report, then if they do it again, the next stop is ANI. But ignoring multiple warnings, Talk page messages and a block is the definition of disruptive editing, and this editor should get blocked for it. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:02, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Drafting an RfC
I'm not sure to what extent I'm going to create an RfC regarding what we are discussing at Talk:Sabrina Carpenter discography, but I might as well attempt to draft something about it. As I've never done an RfC, and am reading the instructions over there, I'm certainly wondering where to start. The problem of concern, as we were discussing on that talk page, is the language in the MOS:ACCESSIBILITY guideline, particularly the one mention of "rowspan" at WP:DTT, which makes no mention forbidding its use. But even more local than that guideline, regarding discography tables in general, is whether this non-mention is giving editors permission to use "rowspan" in violation (in spirit, if not the letter) of ACCESSIBILITY. Hard to say whether to take this RfC to Talk:Sabrina Carpenter discography, or to the ACCESSIBILITY/DTT talk page. Again, not sure how far I'll get with making this RfC, but if I do work on it, I'll start out in my sandbox or a subpage. ,, , , if you wish, you could chime in here. MPFitz1968 (talk) 17:56, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I was actually considering starting a discussion on this issue at WT:WPACCESS first. I've already taken a quick look there, and while 'rowspans' have come up a couple of time before there, it hasn't necessarily been discussed in depth. So what I was thinking about doing is throwing three or four (small) examples of tables (e.g. maybe some Filmography, Awards and Discography table examples) at them at WT:WPACCESS and seeing if anyone there has any comments on the subject, along with maybe some links to previous discussions on the topic (I know I found a much older discussion on this issue a couple of years ago, and I'm hoping I can find that one again)... Now, I don't have to be the one to start that conversation (though if somebody else does, I'd appreciate a ping), but I think that's the place to start.
 * Assuming that inappropriate use of 'rowspan' is as real an issue as I've been led to believe, then I think the focus of an eventual RfC then would be adding language (i.e. more specific language) on the issue to both WP:ACCESS, and WP:DTT, including perhaps more examples (of "right" and "wrong" tables) at the latter as well. I figured that the RfC should be held in WP:VPP, with advisory notices posted to WT:WPACCESS and possibly elsewhere (e.g. WikiProject pages). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:42, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Is the discussion at WT:WPACCESS that I suggest above worth having? Or would you consider it redundant to the June 2018 discussion there? Also, do you think an RfC is needed on this issue? Or should WP:ACCESS be amended or updated in any way to cover this issue?... Thanks in advance. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:58, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * If this is a recurrent issue, ACCESS and/or DTT should be amended to make the expectation clear, without need for an RFC. (While I'm sympathetic to the desire not to repeat many cells's worth of information, I think accessibility is king.) --Izno (talk) 20:48, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * OK – likely still worth having a discussion at WT:WPACCESS about what kind of additions to make. But it's a relief that an RfC likely won't be need though... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:55, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Somewhere in there probably needs a qualifier as that's my opinion. The people on that talk page might not be persuaded. :) --Izno (talk) 21:14, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * More details at about this issue. Looks like project expects significant pushback on this issue, doesn't want to force it as they expect it will turn people off about accessibility in general. Just a FYI. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:16, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, but I have no idea why that would preclude adding a few more examples of "right" and "wrong" on the issue to WP:DTT. Also, 2010–2011 was a long time ago, and I'm not sure adding more examples, etc. would necessarily be "controversial" at this point. It certainly merits a conversation at WT:WPACCESS about it IMO... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:24, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Just added input. Gives examples of what rowspan looks like to an assistive reader output so can support why it is better to not do it too far into a table. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:35, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

User:Dimas gilang


I've closed the ANI thread with an indef block. There was some opinion in that thread that the editor was also using IPs. I will look into those as well if you can give me some evidence. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 05:02, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The only IP that I have suspicions about is (and this IP does geolocate to Indonesia, so that matches up...), and that's based mostly on the articles the IP edited and the timing of that (and who the IP reverted). Dunno if it'll be strong enough "behavioral evidence" for Admin purposes, but I know this IP caught my attention as an editor. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 05:07, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * It would be more persuasive if someone could show the IP making similar edits as Dimas gilang to the same or similar articles. EdJohnston (talk) 15:17, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, there's the intersect contribs for starters. That seems more than coincidental as do the 6 edits with "Undid revision xxxx by yyyy (talk)" summaries. They all exist at articles that have been redirected, moved to draft etc by other editors and then restored or moved back to mainspace by Dimas gilang. The IP has only edited articles created by Dimas gilang. WP:DUCK certainly seems to apply. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 15:29, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I've temporized by leaving this warning. If there are more reverts and no reply to the warnings, a block should be considered. EdJohnston (talk) 17:35, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.15 16 November 2018
Hello ,
 * Community Wishlist Survey – NPP needs you – Vote NOW
 * Community Wishlist Voting takes place 16 to 30 November for the Page Curation and New Pages Feed improvements, and other software requests. The NPP community is hoping for a good turnout in support of the requests to Santa for the tools we need. This is very important as we have been asking the Foundation for these upgrades for 4 years.


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Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. —  Insertcleverphrasehere (or here) 18:37, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Nina Dobrev
This is already covered elsewhere in the what? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobThomas15 (talk • contribs) 00:45, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * It's already mentioned in the lede/lead – see the third paragraph of Nina Dobrev... Bottom line: "ethnicity" is not to be mentioned in the lede of WP:BLPs as per WP:BLPLEAD, and this subject has been discussed to death at Talk:Nina Dobrev, with the consensus clearly against your edit, and in favor of including that third paragraph in the lede as a compromise. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:49, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I've moved some of the relevant Talk page discussions from the archives back to Talk:Nina Dobrev – it's worth noting that there are still more discussions in the Talk page archives on this topic – and they all run against doing the "Bulgarian-Canadian" thing... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 01:03, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Clarification on ACCESS
Hi! Just had a quick question regarding the discussion at Talk:Sabrina Carpenter discography. This WT:WCAG discussion was cited to support the viewpoint that rowspans in tables violate ACCESS. However, from that discussion it seems that using rowspans in the final column is fine, and the only problematic case is when the column containing rowspans is in the middle. Can you explain why you think ACCESS doesn't allow rowspans? Enterprisey (talk!) 22:24, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Pinging as the odds are they can explain it much better than I can. But the gist of it is that 'rowspan' is acceptable in ACCESS terms if it's used on the left-side of a table, and is then used in progressively smaller increments as you go to the right. (Again, I think List of awards and nominations received by Jennifer Lawrence shows how it should be done...) So, in general, 'rowspan' isn't ACCESS-compliant if used in the middle of a table or on the right hand-side. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:56, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry – ping to see this. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:06, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * That's the gist of it. It's the same with colspan from the top of the table. The navigation in the table for disabled users becomes difficult at best. --Izno (talk) 01:57, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you both for the information! Enterprisey (talk!) 09:31, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Merging issue
Could you help me nominate an article for merging? I don't know how that process works. I noticed that Barry Allen (The Flash), a newly created article, is about the same topic of Flash (Barry Allen) (both for the comic version). --Gonnym (talk) 11:03, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * See WP:MERGE. And when you do merge, just make sure that at both articles, you refer to WP:MERGE, and you're golden. You can use merges I've done as a guide, if that helps, such as here and here. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 16:44, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Does that work even if I don't actually merge anything from the duplicate article? One is FA and one is of poor quality. --Gonnym (talk) 16:46, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * If you end up not merging anything from the poorer article to the "good" one, then just convert the poor one (and its Talk page, assuming the latter is without comments) into redirects to the "good" one(s) – no "merging tags" or anything needed then. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:09, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Sydney to the Max teaser
https://twitter.com/DisneyChannel/status/1063612802479333376 Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 02:45, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't know how long it's been going on, but have you seen the promo for Cousins for Life? Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 20:50, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Uh... maybe, once?... I'm not watching Disney much these days. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:14, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Cousins for Life is Nickelodeon, silly. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 21:22, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Same still applies – I've seen the promo once, I think. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:23, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

The Other Kingdom
Would you have a look here? High school is not defining for the series, so the editor's revert summary makes no sense because I wasn't challenging whether it was Canadian or not. The editor is fine, though, and I don't really have any qualms with them. I just don't think they understood my revert. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 21:24, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

TV channels?
Hey IJBall are you familiar with naming conventions for TV channels? I came across this during a round of reviewing new pages and I'm not familiar with naming conventions when it comes to actual TV channels.


 * Syfy Universal -> Syfy (international)

Thanks!  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  08:51, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:NCBC has the guideline. It is not presented very clear as other naming convention guidelines and does not cover every scenario but it's basically there. --Gonnym (talk) 09:05, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry I hate to ask dumb questions here but I am a tad confused by WP:NCBC and not sure how to handle this. The American channel is at Syfy while the rest have (Country) after the name. Is this normal? For the article about the multiple international versions I don't think (international) is a correct disambig tag here but would (TV channel) be correct?  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  09:15, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * No disambiguation: " " - so Syfy
 * disambiguation is needed: " " (TV channel) - so Syfy (TV channel)
 * disambiguation is needed from other channels: " " ( TV channel) - so Syfy (Canadian TV channel)

I've seen a lot of non-US channels (Disney X style ones) in really poor condition and was thinking of trying to see if merging them all together would work, as they really have no use as standalone, but it was just too much of a hassle that I gave up. --Gonnym (talk) 09:20, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I can see why maybe if I get bored next year I may make that a pet project but I'm not taking on anything additional like that until the Big Brother articles are fixed lol. I just fixed the article that lists all the various Syfy channels for now.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  09:27, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I just noticed what the actual page was - Syfy (TV channel) isn't really about a specific TV channel, but about the brand or franchise if you will (it also is ambiguous with Syfy which is also a Syfy TV channel). In this specific example, I'd just merge it into Syfy under a Syfy#International channels. Either that, or this is a disambiguation page for "Syfy", which then be Syfy (disambiguation) (which does already link there). However, if it is a disambiguation page, the table has to go as it isn't how those pages work. --Gonnym (talk) 09:58, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

FWIW, I've considered trying to tackle some of Category:Television channel articles with incorrect naming style, but I've kind of pledged to myself not to start that until I've taken Category:Television articles with incorrect naming style down to its irreducible minimum and I've still got work to do on the latter... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:39, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Madeline Zima
I see you revised back my edit on the page. Are you affiliated with Madeline Zima? I read your reason. She was born Madeline Rose Gianneschi and her company registration is a public record, so I wasn't clear about the privacy concern you cited. Please advise. Thank you. Sleeplessmason (talk) 20:07, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:BLPPRIMARY states: Do not use public records that include personal details, such as date of birth, home value, traffic citations, vehicle registrations, and home or business addresses. The source you used in your edit is a document of public record and contains one or more of those things. MPFitz1968 (talk) 20:19, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
 * As WP:BLPPRIMARY makes clear, Wikipedia has a higher standard than "exists in public records" – our standard is "substantial coverage in Secondary sources". So if Zima's "real name" is not widely covered in secondary sources (e.g. press and media coverage), then we should not (and generally do not) report it here. (See also WP:BLPPRIVACY.) And, no – I'm in no way affiliated with Zima, or with any other WP:BLP subject on this project. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:22, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Jen Lilley
Why have you taken out all of her charity info? This is what she's known for even more than singing and acting. She's won multiple national and international awards for her philanthropy. Also, most of her singing information was taken out, which is currently her main focus and she's literally charting in 43 countries worldwide as Artist of the Month. All of my sources were independent news sources. What else do you need. All reporters are interested in her music and charity work, and the two go hand in hand.24.139.25.226 (talk) 01:54, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * No, she's not. If she were, there would be substantial independent coverage of that. IOW, she'd be as known for that as acting. But Lilley is primarily known as an actress. Thus her Wikipedia biography should reflect that, with the focus on the acting career. Other activities should only be added to the article if there is substantial independent coverage of it. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 05:10, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Returning the Favor
Hey IJBall,

I was hoping you might do me a favor and take a look at the most recent edit over at the article Returning the Favor. Another editor has consistently attempted to remove an entire section of the article regarding accolades/awards that the series has received. The awarding organization "Got Your 6" has partnered with various entertainment companies such as 21st Century Fox, NBCUniversal, CBS, HBO, Viacom and Paramount Pictures, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Lionsgate, A+E Networks, Live Nation Entertainment, UTA, 44 Blue, The Ebersol Lanigan Company, DreamWorks Animation, Endemol Shine North America, and Valhalla Entertainment. The awarding event was reported on by Variety as seen here: https://variety.com/2017/tv/news/got-your-6-veterans-the-gifted-disjointed-1202607620/. The other editor has argued that the paragraph/section of the article should be removed and cited General Notability Guidelines and Undue Weight as an issue. I may be in the wrong here but I am of the belief that the information warrants mentioning in the article given the stature of the organization within the entertainment industry and the fact that the awards event was covered by a major publication (being Variety). I don't know...maybe give the article and its edit history a look and let me know what you think. Worth noting that I've created an article for the organization here: Got Your 6. – BoogerD (talk) 05:39, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd run this by WT:TV – I think you need a wider selection of editors to chime in here. I'll take a look at the discussion in WT:TV, if you follow-up there, to see if I want to comment. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 05:48, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Magnum P.I.
Can you use your magic to move this to add (2018 TV series) without leaving a redirect? Thanks. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 22:08, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * To clarify, I assume you mean, move it within your userspace? --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:10, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, keep it as a sandbox page. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 22:10, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:13, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Dimas gilang clone?
It might be worth watching this editor. He seems to have gone to the Dimas gilang school of editing. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 08:33, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
 * , User:139.0.207.239 is for sure Dimas. Look at the articles they are editing and what they added in a recent edit. --Gonnym (talk) 11:21, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw that and completely agree with you. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 11:24, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Rathfelder
They're at it again. I just reverted the Crashletes one. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 19:51, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * As I recall, there have been multiple conversations with this editor about the 'stub' tags issue, and they have a "because I am right!" attitude about it. So if they're not going to listen to consensus of other editors, please feel free to revert away! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:54, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Here is one, for reference: User talk:Rathfelder. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 20:08, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

It's you, Babe
DYK, Joe Friday's shield number was 714, because that's the number of homers Babe Ruth hit? TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura  15:40, 28 November 2018 (UTC) (No reply needed, just thought you might like to know. ;p )
 * I did not know that!! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:41, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Kids' networks are rude
First Bizaardvark; now Raven's Home (edit). I get that both of these were confirmed by Disney Channel's stars way earlier—Olivia, I think, for Bizaardvark and Raven for Raven's Home via an interview—but there never were any official postings for these from the network themselves on Deadline Hollywood, et al. Then you have the whole Bunk'd season 3 fiasco. Or Henry Danger season 5. For both of these, the renewal announcement came after they had already starting shooting. Isn't a renewal announcement supposed to be (quite a ways) before shooting begins so the cast can celebrate? Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 20:27, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

The Rookie
Noticed this. Once I'm caught up with this—I got the first two episodes watched before falling behind—you can use User:Amaury/sandbox/The Rookie to figure out who is what—recurring or notable—applicable yet. Although the section really should be called Notable guest stars. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 20:30, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * As you know, I'm against "Guest cast" sections generally, and the better option here is to just remove that whole section (including Nucci). But I'm not going to get into an edit war over a currently-airing TV series (and this kind of silliness is why I mostly stay away from them...). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:34, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

List of The Thundermans characters
I don't think this is relevant, as it has nothing to do with The Thundermans. I don't even recall him being called by a name in "The Wonderful Wizard of Quads." This doesn't seem to be a case of an actor from one series appearing as their character in another series, but rather an actor from one series appearing as a different character on another series. For example, Ian Reed Kesler guest starring on Kickin' It as Ty and on Nicky, Ricky, Dicky & Dawn as Mr. Williams. Same actor, but different characters, so not a crossover. Amaury ( talk | contribs ) 19:44, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * You watch Nicky, Ricky, Dicky & Dawn, I do not – so you'd know better than I would if that's correct... Also, that's the kind of thing that I'd really prefer to see a secondary source for. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:49, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I added to my message above, if that helps. Ping for thoughts as well. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 19:55, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * If they revert me again, please keep an eye out. It doesn't have to do with the series itself, but them not understanding how grammar works. Add: And their arguments are not right, either. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 20:18, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd just leave it – we'll fix it later, as per WP:NOHURRY... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:19, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Other character lists naming conventions
I noticed something and wanted your input on it. Look at the articles listed at Category:Lists of American television series characters, you'll see that all follow the convention of "List of  characters". Now, once the topic is not just "character" things start to be inconsistent. Here are some examples that follow the regular character style: The Bold and the Beautiful secondary characters, List of Hannah Montana main characters and List of Seinfeld minor characters, and below is a table of those that don't.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Gonnym (talk • contribs)


 * Ah, minor and recurring characters lists. The better thing almost always is to redirect those for rarely passing WP:NOTPLOT. :^) --Izno (talk) 14:14, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Is this what your new proposal at WT:NCTV has to do with?! If so, I would advise copying this table to your proposal there... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:37, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Nothing to do with it. --Gonnym (talk) 17:45, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * OK. This proposal seems reasonable to me – your proposed titles all seem to be an improvement over the current titles. Does this need to be added to a guideline somewhere?... (Note: However, I agree with Izno that my bet is that most of these should actually just be covered to redirects, or outright deleted – e.g. List of guest stars on 21 Jump Street should absolutely just be WP:PRODed, as per WP:INDISCRIMINATE...) --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:50, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure it needs to be added, as Naming conventions (television) should cover this - all the examples there are in the format of "List of  ". Do you think we need to add specific wording to the guideline that this is the format? --Gonnym (talk) 18:10, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I'll leave that to your best judgement... As to your list, I will try to get to these, but it make take some time, as I may go through and just try to delete those that I think should just be deleted. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:12, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Question on a specific one here: you propose moving List of cast members from The City (2008 TV series) to List of The City (2008 TV series) cast members – but shouldn't it instead be moved to just The City (2008 TV series) cast members, as per other articles of similar format: e.g. Days of Our Lives cast members and General Hospital cast members?... What do you think? --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:32, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Aren't those also lists just not titled as such?--Gonnym (talk) 18:34, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that's a separate issue (that would have to be tackled separately) – for now, I'd rather just keep the naming format style consistent... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:36, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Which is my point, the articles you listed are the ones named inconsistently, see List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series actors. --Gonnym (talk) 19:55, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * That one (which is a mess – that's a WP:FL?!!) covers multiple series, so that titling makes sense. But for the cast of an individual show, I'd rather move to '[Show name] cast members' at least for now, for WP:CONSISTENCY. If somebody wants to follow up with a WP:RM for these to poll on moving them to 'List of [show name] cast members' later, that's a separate issue. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:01, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Consistency with what? Category:Lists of actors by soap opera television series has much more list of cast members in the NCTV format then the one you are promoting... --Gonnym (talk) 20:14, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Meh – then "pass". That one can go through a WP:RM, but I'm not going to move it. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:17, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Raven's Home – Curtis and The Guntz
Per our discussion at User talk:IJBall/Archive 20, they would both now qualify as recurring, right? The episode last night was each's fifth appearance, and in "It's Your Party and I'll Spy If I Want To," they were guest stars. Otherwise, in all of their other appearances thus far, they were co-stars.
 * Curtis appearances
 * The Guntz appearances

Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 16:27, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Both look like they've been in/will be in at least 6 episodes so, yeah, that's "recurring" (provided they were credited as "guest stars" in all 6 appearances, and not as something like "co-star" for some of them...). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:32, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, just reread that... This is tricky: if they were mostly credited as "co-stars", I'm not sure... I'd take it to the article's Talk page. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:34, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 17:02, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Hope it's okay to follow up here. Both characters now have two appearances as guest stars. So that's six appearances total: two as guest stars and four as co-stars. That should probably make it less tricky now, right? My guess is that their importance was upgraded in "It's Your Party and I'll Spy If I Want To" (#219), hence their guest star credits there. The only reason it seemed like they went back to co-stars in "Winners and Losers" (#218) is because of filming order. "Winners and Losers" was filmed first, but aired after "It's Your Party and I'll Spry If I Want To." Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 14:56, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd still just go with the Talk page consensus. If no one has commented, you can probably interpret it as "no objection" to adding. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:58, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I will add them, then, per that reasoning. Should this case "follow the rules," with their order being determined based on first guest star appearances? Unlike below where we WP:IAR. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 19:52, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Probably the second. But did they appear in season #1, or have they only been in season #2? If the latter, then I'd definitely go with based on the first true guest star appearance. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:54, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Season two. First appearance was "The Trouble with Levi." Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 20:40, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Bunk'd – Timmy
Now, per what I linked to on the talk page there, what about Timmy from Bunk'd? Is he more clear? He's had seven total appearance.
 * 3 guest star appearances
 * 2 co-star appearances
 * 2 uncredited appearances

Uncredited probably doesn't count, but between guest and co-star appearances, that's five right there. So he would be recurring? And there's nothing stopping him from appearing in season four, either. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 17:02, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Timmy's the kid that was lost in the woods, right? I think his example is pretty much an "WP:IAR" case, as that was clearly an important "running gag" that goes from season #1 all the way through the final episode of season #3 of Bunk'd. So, if Timmy is the lost kid in the woods, I would now include him at Bunk'd, yes... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:06, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, he's the lost/forgotten kid. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 17:07, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Followup question: You made this edit a while ago, but per our aforementioned discussion linked above, shouldn't he be listed at the bottom as we should go by first guest star appearance? And guest star appearance-wise, he wasn't credited as a guest star until after Griff and Lydia had already been credited as guest stars. So, here, the first time Orange appears as a "guest star", as opposed to being just a "co-star", is what should be counted towards adding them to the 'Recurring' section. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 01:51, 11 September 2018 (UTC) Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 19:39, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I went with his first "credit" (of any type), rather than his first uncredited appearance. Again, I consider this a WP:IAR situation because of the weird circumstances here – but it doesn't make any sense to me to list Timmy after season #2 characters when he clearly appeared in season #1. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:20, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

The Good Doctor
First, the credits and order of those, particularly for the cast, are based on the season two premiere. I still need to find a way to watch the first season as that's what things should be based on, because ABC is mean and takes down the previous season once a new season stats airing. It's still listed on their website, but the episodes can't be viewed, and aren't available on-demand, either! My only option is to figure out if I want to buy the first season on Amazon or not.

Anyway, my question is this: As seen in the Casting section that I finally finished yesterday, Chuku Modu left after the first season. However, he did appear in the season two premiere; not only that, but with a starring credit as well, so he was main cast for that episode. So how should that be handled? Because Chuku Modu as Dr. Jared Kalu (season 1) wouldn't seem right. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 22:55, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The Good Doctor is on Hulu, ABC's app, and iTunes according to my Apple TV app... (Note: This is one series I don't watch.) Anyway, if what you're saying is correct, then "Chuku Modu as Dr. Jared Kalu (seasons 1–2)" is how I would handle it, as they were main cast-credited in episode #2.1. I don't think it needs to be anymore specific than "(seasons 1–2)" in the 'Cast' section for situations like this (if more sourceable details are available, they can go into the 'Casting' section)... --IJBall (contribs • talk)

Your episode list conversions remove citations?
I just had to fix two separate pages on which you removed the citation for the episode airdates when converting the list formatting, and then added an "unreferenced" template after you had removed said citation on top of that.

I presume that is some sort of script? Please fix whatever is causing it, as I might have missed some additional pages that are now lacking citations as a result – I had simply stumbled upon both of these in routine browsing. Modernponderer (talk) 22:49, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what you're talking about – start with diffs, and we'll go from there. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:51, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * BTW, this is now the second time you've come to my Talk page with an accusatory tone. I would advise you to work on that if you don't want to antagonize other editors unnecessarily. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:53, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Here are the diffs you requested:
 * And please WP:AAGF. I had no idea you were the same editor as in the previous incident until you reminded me just now. I am not "accusing" or "antagonizing" – there is an issue, apparently caused by your edits, which should be resolved so it does not affect other pages in the future, and so that any already affected pages can be found and fixed. Modernponderer (talk) 23:00, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, yes – to answer your question, in those two I was using 's Episode table script, which sometimes doesn't pick up in table citations when you use it. Now I should have caught those sources when I did those conversions, but those two I missed... That said, you've reverted those episodes tables back to not using the Episode table template, which is not a good idea. But the airdateR parameter can easily be used to restore those cites while still using the Episode table template. I can do it, or if you'd prefer, you can try it. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:09, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * But that's exactly what I already did – I restored the citations using that parameter (and removed the "unreferenced" templates). Modernponderer (talk) 23:12, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It doesn't pick up the citations, you're right, because there's no easy way to add the citations as they've already been processed by the server and are no longer in wikicode format, but HTML. It does, however, add the empty variablenameR parameter; perhaps as a better reminder to restore the source, I'll I now have the script put a comment in the empty parameter (like User:AlexTheWhovian/script-seriesoverview.js and ). --  Alex TW 23:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, looks like you did. So, then problem solved! But, yeah, to answer the original question, it was a script-based edit. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:15, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, but in case you recall or come across any other pages you might have edited like that please either fix them, or let me know. I tried looking through your contributions so I could fix any such edits, but you have so many edits that it's a massive list to sort through.
 * Also, just to clear the air from last time (since I left after you removed my comment): I absolutely do not mean to irritate anyone. I try to only bother editors in those cases where I feel it might help with avoiding future issues, not to chide them for mistakes. Modernponderer (talk) 23:24, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * No way for me to remember all of them – as I said, I generally catch it when the script doesn't pick up citations like that. But with those two, I didn't. (They were from a year ago, and I've probably gotten better doing these template-table conversions since then...). Still, there may be others out there that I missed as well, but it would likely only be a few... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:28, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Television
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Television. Thought you might be interested as I know your opinions on this quite well. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 19:59, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

I Didn't Do It (TV series) – High school
Other category is fine, but likewise for high school here? Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 00:39, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
 * If the school is not the primary setting of the series, then it's not a "high school series". Saved by the Bell was primarily set in the school, so "high school series" is appropriate. But that is not the case with either Liv and Maddie or I Didn't Do It. So I advise reverting... These category-obsessed IP's are irritating, because they throw every possible cat under the sun in there, and most of them are WP:NOTDEFINING. And then some of the IP's are actually users that have been blocked for disruptively creating cats or for WP:CIR editing of cats... Very annoying... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:51, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Well, that's one way to spend the night...
My first serious collision. Yay, fun! Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 05:09, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I haven't had one in years, and I'm in no hurry to do it again. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 05:24, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Wasn't my fault. Turned in front me; slammed on my brakes, but not enough time. Nothing I could do. As soon as our truck's out of the shop, we'll be using that while we figure things out as the car feels off, damage aside. And the truck's having its own issues. AC is being fixed (minor). The catalytic converters are going bad, and we've been having problems with it randomly wanting to die and not stay going. Once you get moving it's fine, but when it's idling or you're coming up to a stop sign, it'll die if you don't give it gas again. My mom thought it could be that, the fuel injector, fuel pump, or the crank shaft. As the problem is at random, though, and not consistent, our mechanic isn't confident on what it would be. Yay, problems. Amaury ( talk &#124; contribs ) 05:46, 6 December 2018 (UTC)