User talk:ILIL

Vaporwave!
I just wanted to drop by and say great job with the Vaporwave article!-- Gen. Quon   (Talk)  04:10, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

ex-Beatle collaborations page
Good job with the clean. Recently the name was changed from Collaborations between ex-Beatles to that clunky mess. There's a discussion on the talk page to revert it back. What say you? Hotcop2 (talk)

Joe Thomas Bio
I am writing in regards to music producer, Joe Thomas. His BIO includes inaccurate and false information. I saw that you were also editing the platform. Would you be able to help to get his correct BIO with true and factual information added to his WIKI page?

[copy of IMDB bio redacted]

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:243:501:53F1:E46C:5FF6:88B4:A111 (talk) 14:21, 28 May 2020 (UTC)


 * You would need to find reputable sources that support this information. See WP:SOURCES and WP:REPUTABLE. ili (talk) 14:54, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * And also not just copy his IMDB bio, even if it's written by a publicist. —C.Fred (talk) 00:56, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

About that sandbox
I've noticed you've been very busy lately on various Beach Boys wiki pages, and i see you're working on completely overhauling the page on Smile. However, i want to point out some inherent bias:

1. The tracklisting on disc 1 is inspired directly by the tracklist for BWPS, which was made for a touring setting.

2. Fly-ins are used on tracks like Holidays and Love To Say Da Da, to match the 2004 versions of songs as close as possible; this would not have been the case if the approach was to make a historically accurate Smile.

3. Autotune was used in one instance, for the "Rock With Me Henry" version of Wonderful.

4. The box set, as large and expansive as it is, fails to include master takes from several various sessions. On top of this, on several occasions wrong takes are used to represent the master.

5. The understatement on Smiley Smile's production and dismissal of the "stripped down" approach contridicts with the main theme of the Smiley Smile article.

6. There is an excessive amount of comparison and need for approval by The Beatles.

7. There is absolutely no mention of the contributions of Bruce Johnston, who not only provided vocal work on several songs but needed to take a break from early to late 1967 due to feeling overwhelmed by the group's new direction (having only joined a year prior).

8. The album as originally intended back in 1966/67 was not completed and never can be completed.

That being said, i appreciate the MASSIVE effort a project like this would take, and a lot of these points aren't even mentioned on the base Smile page.

Apologies for cluttering up your talk page, I wish wikipedia had a proper direct messaging system. --Hidlive (talk) 21:46, 29 June 2020‎ (UTC)


 * I appreciate the feedback but I don't understand what exactly you're disputing on a lot of these points. You'd have to reference specific claims that you think expose a bias. I don't know what you think should be added re: Bruce because AFAIK Bruce was just a vocalist-for-hire and had no input on the project (he wasn't even included in the formation of Brother Records). And I don't have any sources to correct/add anything pertaining to Smile Sessions autotune or mislabeled tracks. ili (talk) 23:26, 29 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Bruce contributed vocally to Our Prayer, Wonderful, Wind Chimes, Cabinessence, Child Is Father Of The Man, Vega-Tables demo, You're Welcome, and Do You Like Worms. In addition to this he plays piano on I Don't Know, and recorder on Bag Of Tricks. I can upload a youtube video showcasing the use of autotune on Wonderful sometime, but a lot of research is being done by 2 hardworking fans. If you've heard of the Sail On podcast, they've been guesting on it quite a bit recently. Also i'm not sure if this reply will format right because i am extremely new to wikipedia editing.


 * By the way, Walkin' was officially released! It's on I Can Hear Music: The 20/20 Sessions. It's even listed at the bottom of the page... Jingle Bells was also released, on Keep An Eye On Summer - The Beach Boys Sessions 1964. Other things of note:

-Alone On Christmas Day (which is the full title, not just Christmas Day) was re-recorded by Mike for a 2015 single, which was put on his christmas album Reason For The Season.

-Be My Baby, recorded in 1980, became the basis for the final recording on Mike's album Looking Back With Love.

-California Beach was re-recorded by Mike for his album 12 Sides Of Summer.

-Rollin' Up To Heaven evolved FROM Ding Dang, not INTO. Ding Dang was first recorded in fall of '73, per AGD's site.

-Stella By Starlight and How Deep Is The Ocean have vocals. Numerous times people have tried to clear that up. You can look it up on Youtube, there are vocals on it by Dick Reynolds. It's on all the bootlegs with vocals.

-Heart And Soul and Long Tall Sally were both released on Beach Boys Party! Uncovered And Unplugged.


 * If you want to add content to any article on Wikipedia all you have to do is cite reliable published sources, like a book or an album's liner notes. If we don't cite proper sources then the article has a high likelihood of being deleted. If you think there's information that should be added, but it's NOT supported by Bellagio 10452 or other sources, then virtually nothing can be done until Doe updates his site, or until other established authorities like Mark Linett, Alan Boyd, Craig Slowinski, etc. make their own website (if they ever do). ili (talk) 22:14, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Unreleased albums and cover art
I saw you're largely responsible for the Smile article and thought you'd be a good person to ask for advice about this. I've been working on Love for Sale (Bilal album) and am thinking of cover options for the infobox, but am uncertain about the fair-use implications. The image that appears most often in association with this album on blogs and discographical sites is this one (Genius.com is among the more reputable sites), although there is no commentary on this - it could be a piece of fan-made art that simply became popular by association with the album's spread online. This interview by Albumism mentioning the album uses that image in a collage of other albums' official covers, so perhaps that counts as some kind of validation? Otherwise, there is no reliable commentary on the planned or leaked album's cover art like there is at Smile. A similar article, Camille (album), uses a limited LP copy as the cover, so I've also considered using one of these sleeves of a promotional LP. What can you advise? isento (talk) 18:36, 5 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I'll repost this at WP:ALBUMS. isento (talk) 18:38, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Cool Cool Water
I have a rip of the SMiLE bootleg CD issued by "The Early Years", which is composed of needledrops from the Brother Records SMiLE LPs, judging by the pop and cracks on some tracks. Here's the relevant track, also featured the rest of the cassette's "Element Suite" recreation.

As I'm aware, Dada appears to be the the segment from Cool Cool Water usually known as "Water Chant". As this is from before the Sea of Tunes CDs, it starts with water noises, indicating that the compiler was well-aware of its rumoured origination from the Smile Sessions, but not really as it was the early Smiley Smile sessions. Sea of Tunes' SMiLE bootleg CD infamously used Water Chant [a raw session version] as an intro to Dada, and this edit has been recycled on both BWPS and the Smile Sessions [Disc 1/"The Album" proper].

Hope you understand all the above. --TapLover (talk) 10:54, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

FYI
I've added a subsection on soul and funk to progressive music, and created a main article for progressive soul. isento (talk) 21:18, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Response
Hey there! I'd like to start off by apologizing for continually reverting your changes to my edits, and I want to let you know that I will make changes to properly source my material this time around, thanks. Agent101232 (talk) 21:28, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Control society
I was thinking of retargeting control society to the Deleuze article, as I think the phrase is most closely associated with his work, but then saw that you'd done that soon after creating it then returned it to the current target. So it seemed prudent to get your views first – do you think the term's seen enough outside of the Deleuzian context that the broader topic is the better target? It's a bit hard to judge from any search results as you mostly get things like "the Birth Control Society of Hamilton" and "How China's Rulers Control Society," so interested to hear your views. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 19:30, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I haven't got a clue. Was only taking my best guess based on my hastily-gathered understanding of the topic. ili (talk) 20:39, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * In that case I think I'll retarget it with a hatnote. Not much point in taking it to RfD as participation would probably be low for similar reasons. Maybe eventually I'll get round to creating an article on Deleuze's "Postscript" but that would be a long way off. Cheers, – Arms & Hearts (talk) 16:33, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Beach Boys songs
Hi ILIL

I have I think moved all those that you requested now, so they're back at their former titles. (Most of them were redirects anyway, so just a case of the categories now being in a different place, with both variants redirecting to the parent album). If you discover any others, please let me know. Cheers &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 21:27, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Recurrence of egregious article ownership at Modern Life Is Rubbish
It is disappointing to see the would-be owner (not just of MLIR, but almost every page to do with Blur) get his way with another mass revert of other editors' hard work and 100% constructive edits. If you have the energy to become reinvested in this issue, I'd be most grateful. Thanks. 149.241.190.42 (talk) 05:12, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Ping me if the edit gets reverted again and I'll revert it for you so that you don't get hit with a 3RR. The only other thing I can suggest is opening an incident report on Administrators' noticeboard. I don't have the time to take the initiative, but I have seen enough questionable conduct from the other editor to provide you support should you choose to report them. Thanks ili (talk) 13:15, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Ye/Kanye
I don't see how you read there being clear consensus for the edit you just reinstated. The question that started the discussion asks about how to refer to the subject in the lead; the close is not explicit about where it's referring to, so is ambiguous, but the fact that none of the participants thought it necessary to implement a change like yours makes me wonder whether your interpretation of the consensus is in line with their intentions. The reason I protected the page a couple of weeks back was largely because of edit warring over the first sentence, and I'd hoped that the discussion would put a stop to that. I personally don't care what we call him, but if someone else reverts to the status quo ante, please don't reinstate your change again without getting talk page consensus. Girth Summit  (blether) 18:22, 4 November 2021 (UTC)


 * You're right, there wasn't a consensus for introducing him by his legal name, and neither his birth name, but we do have a policy outlined at MOS:LEGALNAME. I don't care about Kanye in particular, but it would bother me if I ever have to engage with an editor who points to that article as an example of a subject that isn't introduced by their legal name. ili (talk) 18:31, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * That would be a good, policy based argument that you could use in a talk page discussion. However, I draw your attention to actual verbiage of the MOS: For people who are best known by a pseudonym, the legal name should usually appear first in the article, followed closely by the pseudonym. First off, someone might want to argue the toss over whether an old name is really a pseudonym - I suspect that guideline was written with people like Bono, Slash or Eminem in mind. Second, there's that sneaky word 'usually' in there, implying that in certain situations this is not the best thing to do. In other words: policy is not clear-cut on this, it's open to editorial judgment, and I am not convinced that the change you made reflects the consensus of that discussion. As I said - I'm not going to change it back myself, but if someone else takes issue with it you need to discuss it with them. Girth Summit  (blether)  18:42, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

"The Dancing Water, The Singing Apple, and the Speaking Bird"
Hello,. I'm responsible for expanding folktale and some fairy tale articles. I saw the warning on the article and I've come here to ask how can the article be improved. However, there is one point I must object: that the article seems like a personal essay:

189.122.34.209 (talk) 00:21, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Nowhere in the text a personal opinion is presented as fact; all sources have been published in the last ca. 200 years (as seen in the dates of the references);
 * The motifs and origins sections cite different views from different folktale scholars of the 20th and 21th century.
 * The article tries to gather scholarship from all around to the world to present the most complete view possible.
 * [ADDENDUM] Nearly all the variants are cited/mentioned/listed in the selected bibliography used for the article (namely, Schiefner, 1873; Clouston, 1887; Bolte/Polívka, 1913; Braga, 1914; Pino-Saavedra, 1961; Hoogasian-Villa, 1966; D. L. Ashliman, 1987).
 * I've only done a skim of the article and can give an example:
 * The tone here suggests WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH and WP:WEASEL. What scholarship – whose "first glance" are we speaking of? Who is being quoted? If there are other statements in the article like this, then they must be rephrased in an objective and encyclopedic tone, not in a tone one might expect from a research paper or college essay. ili (talk) 00:45, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the insight. I will try my best to clean out the article.189.122.34.209 (talk) 00:46, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Good luck! ili (talk) 00:47, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, again. I'm a bit stumped. Which sections do you think should need work?189.122.34.209 (talk) 13:58, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry but I don't have the time to help. If you're stumped then feel free to remove the tag. Just as another tip, I see a lot of claims that lack citations, so those should be addressed as well. ili (talk) 16:10, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry but I don't have the time to help. If you're stumped then feel free to remove the tag. Just as another tip, I see a lot of claims that lack citations, so those should be addressed as well. ili (talk) 16:10, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Using Infobox person for Roy Orbison
Hi ILIL.

On https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Orbison, you reverted my addition of Infobox person with this note "13:05, 12 April 2022‎ ILIL talk contribs‎ 78,788 bytes −631‎  Restored revision 1082118718 by 8.9.93.141 (talk): Not an improvement, Orbison was not notable for anything other than music undothank Tags: Twinkle Undo"

I'm confused. I'm not sure if your comment "not notable for anything other than music" is suggesting that the Infobox person only be used when there are multiple infobox modules to be used. Or perhaps you're suggesting that the Infobox person should only be used when the individual is notable for something other than music. But when I look at many other musicians on wikipedia, I see they use the infobox person with the module infobox musical artist, but they don't appear to be notable for anything other than music, and there is no other infobox module they use. Here are some examples:
 * Tom Petty
 * George Harrison
 * Jeff Lynne
 * Barry Manilow
 * Bob Marley

The main reason why I converted the article to use Infobox person is because I wanted to call out that Roy had two spouses in the infobox, especially Claudette. The fact that he married and divorced Claudette and then married her again, and that their second marriage ended with her death is obvious from the Infobox person format, but took a fair amount of digging in the article to determine those facts, absent the Infobox person. These facts relating to Claudette are also unusual, and her death was an influence on his music, which seemed a good reason to make this more obvious using the Inbox person.

Also, the Infobox person allowed me to link to Roy's son Alex easily and obviously, and to his second wife Barbara Orbison.

If you don't have a strong objection, I would like to put the Infobox Person format back into the article.

Thanks for listening. ReferenceMan (talk) 02:15, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Please go on Template talk:Infobox musical artist and voice support for adding a spouse parameter and we won't need to change the templates. ili (talk) 15:16, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

I don't have a strong opinion about whether the Template talk:Infobox musical artist should include a spouse parameter. I can see both sides of the argument. But I do have a strong opinion that the Roy Orbison article should have infobox information about his spouses and son. If you don't have any further objection, I would like to proceed with restoring that change I made using infobox person, as that is currently the only way to get the spouse and child information in the infobox. ReferenceMan (talk) 15:29, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

@ILIL: Do you have any objection to me restoring my change? ReferenceMan (talk) 12:10, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Return of egregious article WP:OWNERSHIP at Modern Life Is Rubbish
Apologies for dragging you back in. I didn't think the would-owner, Indopug, would just brazenly return to his old antics (censoring reviews and certified sales figures he doesn't like), but since you offered to revert his behaviour if he did, I leave this comment. If one were to honour the edits made since his sweeping revert, the article would look something like this. Thanks for your help. 51.199.19.249 (talk) 16:42, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Let It Be
I'm pretty sure you're unaware, but I Me Mine was the last song recorded for the album (hell the last Beatle song recorded) in January 1970. Phil Spector put the all the recordings together AFTER the recording was done, and put the album together in the process. You're welcome. ChallengeCick (talk) 09:23, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I Me Mine has orchestrations. Those orchestrations were not performed by the Beatles in January 1970. The orchestrations were recorded by Spector in April. ili (talk) 15:43, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Really? Hold on, let me listen to the song to see if I can hear those orchestrations. And if I don't hear them when I'm listening closely, there's gonna be a problem. ChallengeCick (talk) 17:46, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of All Summer Long (album)
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Your GA nomination of Power pop
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Your GA nomination of Power pop
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Your GA nomination of Sweet Insanity
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I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hello, ILIL

Thank you for creating Inside the Music of Brian Wilson.

User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with. Please remember to sign your reply with ~.

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

North8000 (talk) 02:50, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Brian Wilson (album)
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A barnstar for you!

 * You're one of the handful of Beach Boys fans who actually puts in the legwork required for these pages, rather than just bitching from behind closed doors like others do. I never get real feedback and criticism from regular fans, but I must be doing something right, because from what I've heard, BRI loathes Wikipedia and would prefer that some inconvenient but well-documented facts be expunged from the record. So, yeah, I really appreciate your gesture. Fighting negationism is often a thankless job. ili (talk) 22:40, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Interesting stuff to hear. It's a tricky task parsing through all the contradictory accounts from members, associates, etc.—so I fully sympathize with your work in trying to compile the most objective account possible. Thanks for the tip on Archive.org, a site I've occasionally stumbled on but never truly utilized. Again, thanks for your work in keeping the Beach Boys pages in tiptop shape! Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 01:57, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Carl and the Passions – "So Tough"
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Orphaned non-free image File:Sweet Insanity.jpg
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"Here Today" Single cover image change
Hey ILIL, I noticed you reverted the image representing the song "Here Today" by The Beach Boys from the cover of the B-side picture sleeve to a picture of the vinyl. I'm confused on why, when I looked at images for other B-Sides released around the same time like The Beatles' "The Inner Light", the picture sleeve was used instead. Your reason listed was that the image looks too similar to the image for the song "Darlin'", but the aforementioned Inner Light sleeve looks about as similar to it's A-side "Lady Madonna", so I'm confused why that image for "Here Today" was a problem in this case.

I haven't been editing for very long, so my apologies if I made a mistake, I was just trying to apply a consistent style to the article compared to others about similar topics. Hartcanyon (talk) 23:31, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

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Very nice
Very nice work on album era. Thank you for the improvements ... 𝒮𝒾𝓇 𝒯𝑒𝒻𝓁𝑜𝓃 (talk &#124; contribs) 16:27, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:Brian Wilson&#39;s Smile group photo.jpg
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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:07, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

H-pop video sample
Hey there, just wondering after all these years if it makes sense to have Lopatin's "Angel" video as the main example on the hpop page, given that it's now widely associated squarely with vaporwave. Certainly there's some bleed, but I'm wondering if it'd be better to get like a Ferraro lo-fi track that's a clearer distillation of the hpop ethos in its place. Whatcha think? Kkollaps (talk) 21:43, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

"List of members of the Beatles" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_members_of_the_Beatles&redirect=no List of members of the Beatles] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Thryduulf (talk) 17:59, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Been a while
Hello, fellow Wikipedian passing by. You're the best Beach Boys-related user and so much more, genres and songs and all. An absolute legend to me. It's been a year since your last contribution; I assume you've had or are having a very well deserved rest after eight years. That Pet Sounds article now fits the B-class criteria more than ever. SMiLE is a really big article, though a little unfocused. But without you none of these articles would've been any better. I'm concerned about the lack of activity on your "Good Vibrations" sandbox, however; hope you don't mind if I salvage the contents for future edits. I'm wondering if you're still interested in editing or not. That's all I have to say. I cannot thank you enough for your efforts in pop music. Farewell. Carlinal (talk) 06:41, 28 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Ditto above. Hope you can find the time to return someday—your writing on musical genres, the Beach Boys, and XTC are some of my favorites on this site. DigitalIceAge (talk) 04:17, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Beatles August 1969.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Beatles August 1969.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:06, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Better source request for File:The Teddy Bears Spector.jpg
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 * File:The Teddy Bears Spector.jpg

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