User talk:IZAK/Archive 36

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The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXX (August 2008)
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Don't lecture me
Keep your hypocritical lectures for those who are stupid enough to pay attention to your incoherent ramblings. I correct both my unsigned comments a before you sent that stupid message' so in the future, kindly keep your vacuous nonsense to yourself. Finn (talk) 09:51, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Finn: Please do not violate WP:AGF, WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. All I asked is that you add the four tildes to your unsigned comments. That's all. How does that qualify as "hypocritical lectures...those who are stupid enough to pay attention to your incoherent ramblings...you sent that stupid message...vacuous nonsense"? Please avoid out of proportion personal attacks that also violate WP:NOT as well. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 11:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Given the vile judgemental filth you have been posting in the circumcision article name debate, you are not only a hypocrite; but anything I have said to you is remarkably restrained.It is clear that your only motives are to troll and to push a truly perverted point-of-view. Finn (talk) 12:21, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Finn: You seem to think that reporting and describing known and verifiable historical facts that you disagree with allows you to bombard me with insults and attacks. This is your third and last warning to stop or I will reluctantly be forced to report your negative and uncalled for behavior and ask that stronger measures be taken to censure you. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 14:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You may like to review what YOU started before you make your twisted accusations. Finn (talk) 14:55, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Finn: NOTE WELL: I did not make any personal attacks against you nor did I demean you personally and certainly did not use curse words against you. I contributed to the discussions only and gave what is pretty much the standard views of the Western, Judeo-Christian and Judeo-Islmic historical attitudes towards circumcision which you seem to think is all "OR" because you cannot seem to tolerate a view that disagrees with your own narrow POV. IZAK (talk) 06:53, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Midrash Ecclesiastes Rabbah
Shalom rav, IZAK! Your input would be appreciated on a current Humanities Ref Desk query under this heading. Apparently the creator of the Ecclesiastes Rabbah page copied its contents from a general reference tome, so I'm approaching you based on your more recent activity (i.e. edit of the Midrash Rabba page). Thanks on behalf, etc. -- Deborahjay (talk) 14:49, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Deborahjay: Thank you for contacting me. I think you need to post this question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism as there are a variety of experts, including admins, there since I haven't dealt with the above recently. Be well, IZAK (talk) 10:49, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election
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Inappropriate username
Thanks for letting me know about this. The account appears to have been indefinitely blocked, so I think the issue is resolved. Jayjg (talk) 00:33, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks, IZAK (talk) 02:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Trophy Pages
You might want to defend yourself here. Bull dog 18:43, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Bulldog: Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I happen to agree with you, see my long-held position at User:IZAK/Deleting lists and categories of Jews. I have voted to delete all. Please keep me informed in the future. IZAK (talk) 22:05, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Opinion requested
Hi IZAK. User:PiCo and I are having a bit of a dispute in The Exodus. Much of it has been discussed on the talk page under "Dead Reckoning". As a first step in dispute resolution (second, really, after trying to hash it out ourselves), I was hoping you could drop by and give your opinion. Thanks. -LisaLiel (talk) 12:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi LisaLiel: Thank you for contacting me. I did note the situation there and tried to add a little to the introduction which I see is still there. To be honest, by now, the dispute between you and User:PiCo has become quite complex and labyrinthin and I don't have the time to get into the thick of things. But I would be willing to add something if you could crystalize for me in a few very brief points what the real issues are and what is being disputed, in as few words as possible so that I could use that as a point of reference and see if I could add to the conversation. I would add that unfortunately, most Biblical articles on Wikipedia are beyond repair and hope, especially as they relate to the Hebrew Bible (Tanach) with so many Tom, Dick and Harry opinions added to them by now that the articles are sadly total jokes (good for Purim Torah maybe), as they have been compromised and disfigured, often beyond repair, by the conflict between modern scholarship's point of view versus that of classical Judaism according to the authentic Jewish sages (Chazal) and by conflicts between Christian and Judaic views, and other sheer WP:NONSENSE inserted over the years. In my view there is a need to create entirely seperated articles that would convey the differing points of view rather than throw them all into a hodge-podge of articles as they now sadly exist that make no sense with stupid perspectives that contradict each other. For example, in articles about science or medicine noone in their right mind would dream of inserting "the Indian medicine man's view of heart transplantation" or "The Christian view on curing cancer" or "The academic view about belly dancing" but people seem to think that it is "normal" to insert and quote the weirdest opinions about Biblical and Judaic topics just because they have been quoted somewhere. Unfortunately when it comes to religion and the Bible, everyone thinks they are experts. At any rate, please let me have a brief summary of the problem issues. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 07:06, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

RfC on Alleichem
An RfC has been started for User:Alleichem. Since you have been a party to disputes with this user, it would be helpful if you could post your opinion there. -LisaLiel (talk) 13:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

IZAK
Hi IZAK. Did you know that the phrase "Judeo-Christian" itself developed as a Christian missionary term? Slrubenstein  |  Talk 14:11, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Slrubenstein: Thank you for contacting me. I am not sure of your question here, because from the start, Christianity has been borrowing from, some would call it plagiarizing, Judaism, but I do not wish to go down that path. Nevertheless the term Judeo-Christian with close to 2 million hits on Google is not all part of missionary theology and has widespread academic and secular usage. It is a term that conveys the relationship between two diverse faiths that have similarities and differences that should be part of one article and subject. IZAK (talk) 08:41, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Have you noticed that the phrase Judeo-Christian is often used by Christians, but rarely used by Judeos. Phil_burnstein (talk) 08:20, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Image source problem with Image:Nixon_Eisenhower_nominated_1952.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Nixon_Eisenhower_nominated_1952.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 17:28, 4 October 2008 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sherool (talk) 17:28, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Recent AfD on Christianity and Judaism
Hi! I see that you were the nominator in the recent AfD on the article Christianity and Judaism. That AfD recommended (in a snowball result) that the article be merged into Judeo-Christian. However, since the AfD concerns have been raised, most notably
 * Per WP:ADJECTIVE and WP:MOSNAME, we use nouns and noun-phrases for article titles, not adjectives. So a general survey on the relationships between Christianity and Judaism (a topic this encyclopedia should certainly cover) should be called Christianity and Judaism, as per the articles Christianity and Islam, Islam and Judaism.
 * The reason the article Judeo-Christian exists, as its own hatnote declares, is specifically to survey the history and use of that word-phrase -- which has its own controversy, and its own tale to tell. (See here where I've set things out in a bit more detail.)  That story is a good fit for its own article, and will get completely lost if the contents of Christianity and Judaism get inappropriately dumped on top of it.

Having contacted the closing admin, his advice was to open a new discussion at Talk:Christianity and Judaism, advertise the discussion widely, and if a new consensus can be reached in that discussion [his emphasis], then per WP:CCC the new consensus should be followed, rather than the AfD decision, without the need for a DRV or a new AfD.

Concerns about the proposed merge have also been expressed by, and.

This post is therefore to let you know that that discussion is underway, at Talk:Christianity and Judaism, with a view to perhaps setting aside the AfD decision.

Of course, some significant issues were raised in the AfD about the article in its present form, so the best way forward is a question that needs some thought. Please feel welcome to come and participate! Jheald (talk) 07:50, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * HI Jheald; Thank you for contacting me. I have responded at Talk:Christianity and Judaism Thanks, IZAK (talk) 08:32, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I've replied at some length there. In view of what I've written, I think it's reasonable to ask whether you accept the points I've made (or will at least discuss them), and whether they lead you to change your position?  Jheald (talk) 10:31, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Category:Jewish organizations based in Israel
I have just nominated this category, which you created, for deletion. Please see the discussion. --Eliyak T · C 13:23, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Eliyak: Thank you for informing me about this. It is greatly appreciated. I have responded . Thank you, IZAK (talk) 09:07, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXI (September 2008)
The September 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:49, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Chag Sameach!
Izak, I would like to wish you and yours a joyous Sukkos. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for the advice you gave me in January regarding making several short visits before making the big move. I did so and it's helped me to understand what I'm doing better. I have one more test to take before I can practice in NYC, it's scheduled for the day after Simchas Torah &mdash; so I should be down there very soon. Thank you again for your help! &mdash;Elipongo (Talk contribs) 14:33, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Elipongo: Nice to hear from you and wishing you a chag sameach! IZAK (talk) 04:11, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Yaakov Weinberg
Regarding my credentials, I have PhD in Religious Studies and I have studied this particular topic extensively before submitting my nomination. For such a lauded and prominent figure as you claim he is, it is odd that in the one year of the articles existence, not one reliable reference has been added, and the only so-called reliable material that exists is from Yeshiva websites of highly questionable reliability, which themselves are not sourced, and most likely someones opinion. Perhaps religious Jews and followers of the Rabbi, or people with a bias towards Judaic topics consider Aish HaTorah a reliable, independent source for an encyclopedia, but I find that to be dubious. Your thoughts are welcome, but I completely disagree that this is a notable figure suitable for an encyclopedia. This is the reason I nominated the article for deletion. If you and other supporters of the Rabbi disagree, so be it. That's what the debate is for. Please remember to assume good faith when dealing with other editors. Eatabullet (talk) 18:45, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Eatabullet: By your standards, as described above by your denigrating statements, very few rabbis and yeshivas would make it onto Wikipedia. You evidently seem to know little about this subject by the way you disparage it regardless of your degrees which are in all probability not in this area of expertise it seems. The article has now been expanded with more reliable citations, facts and references and is no longer a stub. More will be added. You are again kindly requested to withdraw the nomination. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 10:04, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, these are not my standards, they are the standards of Wikipedia. Regardless, no matter how much you may like a topic and admire a figure, it doesn't mean you should make personal attacks as you have on me here. Need I remind you of Civility and No_personal_attacks? You should also understand a very basic fact: I simply don't agree with you. Perhaps it's because you feel so passionately about Judaism that you fail to see that I am allowed to have an opinion contrary to yours, even if you think you are really, really right and just in your quest to protect this article, seemingly at any cost. And this fact holds true even if my opinion doesn't mesh with yours AND 5 or 6 supporters who may be biased toward a topic. Should I just say I suddenly agree with you because you personally attack me, use bold font or cryptically say "it would be wise" to do so? Personally attacks and attempting to bully me doesn't make this figure notable and it also doesn't negate Wikipedia guidelines. I'm not withdrawing the nomination because I don't feel it is a notable topic, based on the stated criteria for notability on Wikipedia. Your deep emotions aside, this topic has NOT received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, so it does not warrant inclusion for a stand-alone article according to my interpretation of the Wikipedia guidelines. The lofty claims you make about mysterious sources that can't be found anywhere online, are not sources at all, it's what's called original research and unsubstantiated claims. If another non-Judaic article on Wikipedia made claims like "he was interviewed by this newspaper" or "he was a great man in this organization" without one single reliable and verifiable source, would you be of the same opinion? And if so, then what's the point of having a guideline if anyone can claim anything about anyone with the only support being a handful of users potentially sympathetic to the person in question and very weak unsourced online information? Perhaps in Yeshiva you can't question unreliable sources, but I think on Wikipedia it must be done with a clear head and without emotions. You can't just write or claim anything you like (or skirt what is clearly written in the notability guidelines) and have a temper tantrum and launch personal attacks when someone questions that.  Finally, putting things in bold and personal attacks on me will not make me agree with you (though actual reliable, independent sources of your claims could). Sorry. And for the record I will not become hostile and confrontational as you have, even in the face of your abuse. [[Image:Information.svg|25px]] Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing.  Eatabullet (talk) 12:54, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Eatabullet: I am puzzled my your claims. I do not see any personal attacks or anything of that nature here so kindly stop over-reacting. I am asserting that you do not seem to have a deep knowldege or grasp of the subject of subject of yeshivas and rosh yeshivas if you can come up with the claim that one of the most prominent rosh yeshivas of one of the most famous yeshivas in the world is "not notable" -- while noone is suggesting that "every" rabbi employed by that institution should get an article, in fact I would oppose that 100% -- but a long serving rosh yeshiva of such note, agreed to not just by "5 or 6" people (expert editors actually), but by anyone who has a good knowledge of this subject. And it has nothing to do with my "passions" because my record has been that I have nominated many genuinely non-notable rabbis' articles for deletion, but in this case it just does not apply. In addition it is you that denigrates the subject and the genuine reliable sources that validate the notability and importance of Rabbi Weinberg. Kindly stop throwing up red-herring accusations rather than focus on the issue. If you wish to disagree then fine, but do not make the subject look like an odious little nothing when the truth, facts and sources all contradict that. Thanks again for not viewing this in a personal light. IZAK (talk) 03:21, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Merging Sukkah hopping
Hey. As I was the nominator, perhaps it would be less uncouth if you merge this into sukkah. I was really hoping for a response from User:Xyz to my last multifaceted point, but I suppose I won't get one. As I stated, there really isn't much in the article that would get merged, other than a mention of "sukkah hopping" as an as-of-yet loosely defined (or rather, quite undefined) "phenomenon" -- and that would be it. Have a good Shabbos!

Ah...and that was a great rejoinder you had in the discussion over at Yakov Weinberg.  DRosenbach  ( Talk 01:42, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi DRosenbach: For now I suggest doing nothing. "No consenus" does not mean that the article should be redirected, but rather it means that the status quo before your nomination remains. Let the matter rest and we can always return to this issue at a later time. IZAK (talk) 10:06, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * But Xyz suggested a merge himself!  DRosenbach  ( Talk 18:38, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi DRosenbach: Indeed I would like to see a merge and redirect and if you can verify that User agrees then go ahead and do it. In any case I had already tried to do the merge and redirect on Sept 18 '08 from here  and  to here  but User:Xyz780 reverted my merge and redirect and it was then that you came on the scene asking for an AfD which I toned down by asking for a merge and direct which is less harsh and would save the information about "Sukkah hopping" but not give it as much prominence. Just to point out, User:Xyz7890 does have a tendency to take Judaic subjects and split them up and I have asked him a few times to avoid doing so unless the subject really swells to the point where one page cannot hold all the obviously related information. IZAK (talk) 03:39, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Naming Conventions
Hi. Unless someone likes to read HTML, there is really nothing redundant about doing what I've done. I find it neater to have someone's title included in the link, but I suppose it's personal preference and a matter of opinion. Whether or not Wikipedia policy or convention is one way or another is merely a function of conventionalizing one esthetic or another.  DRosenbach  ( Talk 13:24, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

"Food Wars"
Greetings IZAK. As someone who in the past added input regarding disputes over Hummus and Falafel, I thought I would inform you that once again issues have been raised regarding their content. --Nsaum75 (talk) 15:33, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Nsaum; The absurd has no bounds. But I will take a look. Try placiung a note about this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel and at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism and get some Israel and Judaic editors involved, if they wish to. Sincerely, IZAK (talk) 12:43, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Sir Edmund Allenby.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Sir Edmund Allenby.jpg. You've indicated that the image is being used under a claim of fair use, but you have not provided an adequate explanation for why it meets Wikipedia's requirements for such images. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for each article the image is used in.
 * That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --FairuseBot (talk) 02:54, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It is PD-Israel-Photo now added and updated. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 05:57, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Image:Vilna Gaon portrait.gif
Any idea where it came from, or how old it is? The copyright-patrol people seem to be after it. I'll try writing fair use rationales for all uses, but it seems silly if you can establish that it's PD-old, or if we can find one that is. -- Zsero (talk) 06:29, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi Zsero: Thanks for contacting me and for the update. Things have moved along since 2004 when I first uploaded this free very old classic image of the Vilna Gaon. I have now tagged it correctly as PD-EU-no author disclosure. Keep me posted if there are any issues and if you see anything else that you think I should know about. Sincerely, IZAK (talk) 07:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

No content in Category:Messianic and Hebrew Christian congregations
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Re: RfA
Hi IZAK! Great to see you're still here, I thought you retired. It's rare to see such long-time Wikipedians anymore. Thanks for the cogratulations :) the admin thing came at a good time, because I'm being released from the IDF, and will have more time to contribute and do admin tasks in the next month or 2 (taking a break for real life). Cheers, Ynhockey (Talk) 06:20, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXII (October 2008)
The October 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:07, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

FYI
I just found out, you are on Encyclopedia Dramatica's list of Jewish Wikipedians. Slrubenstein  |  Talk 18:23, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So? IZAK (talk) 11:40, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXIII (November 2008)
The November 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 16:38, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Zaid Hamid
I invite your attention to this guy's article and what the times of India has to say about him.70.112.79.217 (talk) 09:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * He is clearly a conspiracy theorist. See Talk:Zaid Hamid and I have added Category:Conspiracy theorists to the article. IZAK (talk) 14:04, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Rebbe Nachman of Breslov
Hi again. I have decided to submit this article to peer review in order to qualify for Featured Article status. Would you kindly click on the above link and add your comments or suggestions? Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 21:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

File:Himmler Hitler.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Himmler Hitler.jpg, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted.  howcheng  {chat} 23:27, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of File:Gen Eisenhower at death camp report.jpg
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If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on  explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the article or have a copy emailed to you. Unusual? Quite TalkQu  22:22, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXIV (December 2008)
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A Request and a Question

 * 1) Please look at the examples I put into the article on Pardes (Jewish exegesis). I value your opinion.
 * 2) Does the order of the list in 613 Mitzvot have any basis other than aesthetics and logic? Phil_burnstein (talk) 08:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Phil: From what I recall the list for the 613 mitzvot was taken from the classical sources and as also given online at a few web sites. Seems that it is sometimes tempting for editors to "remake" this list "in their own image" so that it's best to resist that temptation. I have not had time to look into the "Pardes" issue. Thanks for asking. IZAK (talk) 11:05, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to be honest, I did not think you were making up any list members by yourself. That takes too much chutzpah. I'm only interested in the order of the list. Phil_burnstein (talk) 10:16, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I recall that the list was based on the order of other lists online like at Aish HaTorah that I think follow the RAMBAM, see 613 COMMANDMENT SOURCE, and does it match that? Thanks, IZAK (talk) 06:54, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it matches exactly. Thank you very much. Phil_burnstein (talk) 08:34, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Holocaust survivors
Hi IZAK; thx for commenting in the CfD. I responded and asked you a question of opinion on the category's appropriate application; if you could respond to it in the discussion I would be interested in hearing your opinion on the matter. I hope you're well, as I haven't seen you around much. (Thanks also for responding to the nomination in the same spirit it was presented. I did not intend to offend anyone or de-value the experiences of any survivors. My (now deceased) Jewish survivor great-grandfather would rise from the dead and kill me if I ever did!) Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:43, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Good Ol: Good to hear from you. I have commented there. I do check in, but I have been busy with a few other online writing projects. I am still fully engaged with Wikipedia. Thanks for caring. IZAK (talk) 09:28, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

A discussion that may interest you
I thought you may be interested in this CfD on Category:Jewish terrorism : Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_January_24 – Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:07, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeshua (name)
When you have a chance, can you check out this article and i you see NPOV or NOR problems, comment as appropriate? Thanks, Slrubenstein  |  Talk 15:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Former Minister, Ahuva Gray
thought this might interest you, Articles for deletion/Ahuva Gray --Java7837 (talk) 05:25, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Only a query
I know that the Taryag Mitzvot has been out of copyright for a while, but a particular expression of them is copyrightable, Did you ever check with Aish about it, and if not, do you want me to do it? The worst that can happpen is that either we pick an earlier source, or we do our own translation. Phil_burnstein (talk) 17:58, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Question about User:MichelleSBernard's contributions
Hi IZAK, This editor is adding categories to alot of bios. You seem to have been involved with "Jewish" categories and there deletion. Is there a standard or policy or way this should be treated? My gripe is more about whether the category is sourceable and if the person's ethnicity or religion has already been covered in the bio. This editor claims no malice but I did notice a POV edit in the Larry Page article that does raise a flag. Also, which board would you bring this too? Thanks in advance, --Tom 19:31, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Messianic Judaism related deletion
see Articles for deletion/Ignatz Lichtenstein 3rd nom --Joseph3333 (talk) 21:54, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXV (January 2009)
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CfD nomination of Category:Ohr Somayach
Category:Ohr Somayach, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Cgingold (talk) 03:12, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Shlom bayit
Dear IZAK: It seems like one or two people keep changing Shalom bayit back to Shlom bayit for grammatical reasons. I would like to open this up to a consensus discussion. Please add your opinion at Talk:Shlom bayit. Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 23:26, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Rabbis of Ohr Somayach
IZAK: Now that you populated the category with so many good and already-existing articles, I am happy to change my vote.

BTW, I wouldn't include graduates of Ohr Somayach in the category, even if they gave a shiur there once. I would delete Jonathan Rosenblum and Natan Slifkin. Kol tuv, Yoninah (talk) 11:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Yoninah; The nature of its faculty is not as airtight and many have taught there over the years, I believe that both the ones you mentioned were teachers at one time or another there, unless you have specific information that they were definitely not teachers or lecturers of any sort. Thanks for the feedback. IZAK (talk) 11:04, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Cfd of Category:Jewish Christians
see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_February_13

this category has previously been deleted, it also has no standard of criteria for inclusion, thought you might want to look at the discussion --Java7837 (talk) 13:30, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, I just cited a previous comment by you in that CFD, and hope this is not objectionable.
 * I just read User:IZAK/Deleting lists and categories of Jews, which makes some very serious points. Do you think it also applies to the sourced but apparently non-notable and originally-researched entries in List of converts to Judaism?  Please AGF; I think I just demonstrated that I'm here to learn. - Fayenatic (talk) 20:46, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Faye: People who convert to Judaism have left and renounced their former religions and are Jews and there have been many famous converts to Judaism. It's exactly like the process of becoming a naturalized citizen. On the other hand there is no such animal as "Jewish Christians" because Judaism and Christianity are two contradictory and opposing religions. Like two states that do NOT permit dual citizenship. Yes, historically Christianity sprang from Judaism, and not the other way around, and Christianity took much from Judaism, starting with the Hebrew Bible and many of its notions, many have called it religious plagiarism, but there is no creature as a "Jewish Christian". From the point of view of Judaism, if a Jew accepts Christianity he is an apostate to Judaism, see Apostasy in Judaism, and if a Christian becomes a Jew he is a heretic according to Christianity, and in Catholicism such people were burnt at the stake for centuries without remorse. There are indeed Christian Evangelical groups that try to catch Jews and cause them to convert and along the way they come up with cockamamie notions of "Hebrew Christians" or "Messianic Jews" or "Jews for Jesus" but as far as Judaism is concerned, once a Jew is baptised into those Christian-front groups they have converted to Christianity and could be added to the "List of converts to Christianity" which is legitimate but not to call them "Jewish Christians" or "Christian Jews" which they are not according to either religion. Either you are a Christian or you are not or a Jew who accepts Judaism or you are not, but you cannot create a fake category in the middle just because you maybe have a large group of people who are ignorant and confused about their true religious identity so they call themselves both. Imagine a tribe of African pygmies in the jungle who saw a movie about American cowboys so they decide to call themselves "pygmy-cowboys" and no matter how much they think it's an ok label, any sane and rational person would know that such self-declaration and self-labeling does not make you into that new entity you imagine you belong to. There are facts and then there is mythmaking.IZAK (talk) 09:34, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Izak. I've accepted at the CFD that there should be no category:Jewish Christians. However, I came here to ask something else.  Let me balance the question better this time.
 * Do your points at User:IZAK/Deleting lists and categories of Jews apply to apparently non-notable entries in List of converts to Judaism and lists of converts from Judaism? I'm all for keeping lists and categories of notable people who made a notable conversion from one religion to another which is already well known; but doesn't listing less well-known Jews potentially endanger them? I'm not trying to catch you out, I'm just thinking it through. - Fayenatic (talk) 14:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Faye: You are sincere I can tell. Honestly I am not invested in ANY lists or categories of Jews except for some very defined ones that have legitimate acceptance, such as those that appear in many books and online. For example, for Jews who won Nobel Prizes perhaps as well as for Rabbis. In the case of converts to Judaism, there are cases that in Jewish history and in the history of some countries have been notable for their acts of conversion to Judaism on top of being well known in other areas (prior to conversion) so that their conversion is a truly noteworthy and remarkable act that pushes them to the top of this heirarchy so to speak. I think that rabbis as the spiritual leaders of Jews are worthy of lists and categories, but people who were famous in areas that had nothing to do with Judaism, and never self-identified as Jews in any special or significant way, and almost always never practiced Judaism and in fact often hid their true identity, changed Jewish-sounding names, married gentiles and often became atheists and joined other religions, should not now ex post facto be classified proudly and blithely as "Jewish this and that" when they were never regarded as such by their peers or by scholarship of by themselves. And certainly categories like "Christian Jews" or "Jewish Christians" which is pure gobble-dee-gook and polly-cock should not be allowed entry on an encyclopedia as something that really exists when it's just pure mythology cooked up by people who don't know either the Jewish or the Christian religion, and don't want to know, and just play fast and loose with words, that is when they are even literate. Thanks for being patient and hearing me out. IZAK (talk) 03:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Daniel??
I think this user: Piz_d%27Es-Cha might be Daniel. His talk page shows some editors making comments similar to those we made, and he shares similar traits. I would keep an eye on him. Yossiea (talk) 15:38, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Please revert this?
Can you please revert this: []? Thanking you in advance. Bus stop (talk) 04:00, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, just went there and saw that it was reverted already . Don't you know how to revert? IZAK (talk) 11:18, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Bus stop (talk) 14:43, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Interview?
Greetings! I've been conducting interviews for the Signpost's WikiProject Reports lately. My most recent report was on WP:ISLAM, and I really liked the way it turned out. I'd like to continue my coverage of the major religions with either WP:JUDAISM or WP:CHRISTIANITY. I contacted someone from Christianity a few days ago, but I haven't gotten a response yet. So, I extend the invitation to you. Would you like to be interviewed for the Signpost? If you're interested, just drop a "yes" either here or on my talk page, and I'll walk you through the rest. If not, would you mind recommending someone else from the project who might be interested? Thanks! --Cryptic C62 · Talk 04:52, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Great. I've already started interviewing Secisek for WP:ISLAM, but you'l be next in line! As soon as that interview is published (March 9), I'll walk you through the process and start your interview. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 17:32, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, no problem. IZAK (talk) 18:48, 2 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Alrighty, the interview will be conducted here. I advise adding that page to your watchlist so I don't have to notify you every time I add questions. I'll usually add around 1 to 3 questions at a time. Don't worry too much about formatting and linking and whatnot, I'll clean up the page before it gets published. The next issue of the Signpost will be published on March 16, so I'd like to be able to complete this interview before then. A week should be plenty, so take your time with your responses. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to drop a note here, my talk page, or the interview page. Thanks! --Cryptic C62 · Talk 21:38, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow. Heh. The first question is meant to just introduce you and your contributions. Most other interviewees answer with a 5 to 6 sentence paragraph. This is not to suggest that you should rewrite/delete it; everything you've written is very logical and interesting. However, as I ask more questions, feel free to reuse sections of what you've written or remove them altogether if you no longer think they're relevant. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 17:50, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Cryptic, thank you. I like to write. Feel free to use what you like. Just don't quote me out of context. Enjoy! Keep the questions coming. IZAK (talk) 22:06, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXVI (February 2009)
The February 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:32, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history WikiProject coordinator election
The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process has started; to elect the coordinators to serve for the next six months. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 (UTC) on 13 March! This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 19:09, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Re:Adding a new category for SURVIVORS of the Holocaust
Indeed, I fully agree that we should have a category for survivors. In fact, we actually have the categories for survivors already: Category:Holocaust survivors and Category:Nazi concentration camp survivors. Of am I missing part of your argument? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:17, 16 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I would support the creation of such categories, but it seems we already have them. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 18:20, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Username advice
Hi there. I am asking all currently active native Yiddish speakers (Category:User yi-N) for their input at WP:RFCN concerning the username "FeygeleGoy". The main question to be answered is if you, a Yiddish speaker, encountered that username in your editing, would find it offensive or disruptive. If you have any comments, please add them at WP:RFCN. Thanks! -kotra (talk) 06:26, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Kotra: Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have added my comments . IZAK (talk) 09:48, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments! -kotra (talk) 16:56, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election
The Military history WikiProject coordinator election has started. We will be selecting coordinators from a pool of eighteen to serve for the next six months. Please vote here by 23:59 (UTC) on Saturday, 28 March! Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 01:09, 21 March 2009 (UTC)