User talk:IZAK/Archive 6

R.Soloveitchik
I noticed that the orphaned Image:3X4 R.Soloveitchik and class.jpg, uploaded by you, is on Images and media for deletion. In the article on Joseph Soloveitchik another copy is used, but the orphaned one actually seems to be of better quality. / Uppland 13:11, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Banned again for no reason?!
This is really sick. Simonides and Zero instigated four out of nine Admins to ban me from editing all Judaism articles for a full year. Worse, they did so on the very articles on which I and others have the most success cooperating!

Josiah, JayJG, JFWolff and I have very different ideas about Judaism, yet we obviously have been able to work on these Judaism articles.

It is a gross violation of Sysop and Admin power to create rules that apply to only one person, and to no one else. By definition, when Wikipedia Admins engage in such behaviour, they are violating their own mandate, and thei "rulings" have no authority and are not binding.


 * 1. I am not involved in any flame wars. So why the year long ban? Not a single Wikipedian was ever given a year ban when they were NOT in a flame war.
 * 2. I am not involved in any revert wars or edit wars. So why the ban? Not a single Wikipedia was ever given a ban when they were not in revert for edit wars.
 * 3. The supposed problems are in articles in which the articles HAVE ALREADY BEEN RESOLVED, long ago! So why the ban?
 * Not a single Wikipedian was ever given a year ban when parties amicably came to an issue. It seems that some Admins are enraged that our system actually worked, and parties peacefully worked out their differences.  What kind of hateful people think that such a positive result is grounds for a year long ban?
 * 4. I repeatedly take week-long (or longer) Wiki-breaks to let things cool down and allow other people to have their say without any problem. So why the ban?
 * 5. I have taken many contentious articles OFF of my Watchlist, and simply let others do what they want, rather then engage in multiple arguments. So why the ban?
 * 6. I have asked for and successfully used mediation when necessary. So why the ban?  The action to ban me was taken behind my back, without informing me, and proceeded based on false assumptions - and potentially deliberate lies.

I have e-mailed Jimbo Wales and others about this very issue previously; they were all unable to come up with even a single instance of this ever happening. Ever. The entire ban is a violation of Wikipedia policy, and we should not allow four people with a vendetta to wreck our whole system.

We are unfortunately dealing with a small number of people abusing their Admin power out of some sort of personal vendetta. If it happens to one person, it will happen to others. What steps should we take next to initiate disciplinary action against them for these serious violations? RK 20:40, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC) (Robert)

Jewish ethnocentrism
Hi Izak, just a note to let you know this page has been suggested for deletion at Votes for deletion/Jewish ethnocentrism. Best, SlimVirgin 09:21, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

Image:George and Barbara Bush family.gif
Just wanted to let you know that the image Image:George and Barbara Bush family.gif is on Possibly unfree images because you have not tagged it with information about its source. Simon 03:17, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

Israeli Art Students
Please take a look at this article: Israeli Art Students. It would seem to me like the work of some Neo-Nazi.--AAAAA 11:00, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Carbonbase
Hi IZAK, just wanted to let you know that i am aware of my wrong adjustments, i spent some time reverting back all what i did (making all those lists into categories). it was ignorance on my behalf and i tried to the best of my knowledge, to revert it back to it's previous order. User:Davidcannon was the first to divert my attention to my misinformed editing. i will further my reading before taking measures like that again. any why, i have personally changed the category 'Category' Prominent Jews into a list and redirected the category page for deletion.

Nevertheless, i had spent a great deal of research and effort into the List of Prominent Jews article after finding that List of Jews article could not provide with the same amount of refference and detail. the only reason i opened that list was because List of Jews could not provide me the depthness i needed. ture, i did not finish it yet, but i keep on furthering it. i do not understand why you chose to remove it even from being just a list and not a category as i mistakenly listed it at first.

True, i am new to Kikipedia, therefore, i respect veteren descissions, but it would be a true waste to let my research go in waste.

As for the Category additions that i changed on List of XXX pages (the ones you wrote Juko's editing was good enough) all i added was the name of the List after the | sign so it will fall under it's proper letter in the alphabetic order in the Lists of Jews category. i was wondering why List of Carribean Jews falls under the letter 'C' as it should, while List of Czek Jews falls under 'L'. i would appreciate if you could explain me the logic. Carbonbase 08:45, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ritva/Rashba
IZAK I have been wondering why you have changed my articles on the Rashba and the Ritva into Rashba (rabbi) and Ritva (Rabbi). Could you please explain to me why you did this. Thank you ChanochGruenman 22:44, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Hi Chanoch: I did not "change your article". I switched the titles and did some "re-directs", but everything you wrote in the articles was preserved. What I am trying to do is to provide as headings the names they are known by "Rashba" and "Ritva", (as in Rashi) and to clarify that they were "rabbis", hence "(rabbi)". The naming convention/s for rabbis on Wikipedia is not "set in stone" as you can see from looking at all the rabbonim in Category:Middle Ages rabbis and Category:Orthodox rabbis. So we can still discuss this further, and also get input from others, and I am open. Best wishes. IZAK 06:47, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I think Chanoch is right. You do not need "(rabbi)" behind the names unless there are other articles called like that. The parenthesis are for disambiguation. Honestly, I would prefer Rashba to be at Shlomo ben Adret and the Ritva at Yomtov ben Avraham, as these are their proper names. But there is a precedent to use their appellation (e.g. Vilna Gaon).
 * Please contact me if you want me to move the pages back. As an admin, I can delete the redirect. JFW | T@lk  08:41, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree with JFW. Jayjg (talk) 16:03, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

"Christian Bible" or just "Bible"?
There's a vote on this topic going on at Talk:Bible. I thought you might be interested in taking part. Jayjg (talk) 14:49, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Image license
I notice that you claim Image:Declaration of State of Israel 1948.jpg is licensed under GFDL. May I ask your reasoning behind this? Thuresson 03:43, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Category
Why should Rosh Hashanah be in Category:Tabernacle and Jerusalem Temples? JFW | T@lk  08:14, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Hi: The answer is because it was a major holiday observed in the Temple in Jerusalem as per Rosh Hashanah: "...It is likely that the new year was celebrated from ancient times in some special way. The earliest reference to such a custom is, probably, in the account of the vision of Ezekiel (Ezek. xl. 1). This took place at the beginning of the year, on the tenth day of the month (Tishri). On the same day the beginning of the year of jubilee was to be proclaimed by the blowing of trumpets (Lev. xxv. 9). According to the Septuagint rendering of Ezek. xlv. 20, special sacrifices were to be offered on the first day of the seventh month as well as on the first day of the first month. This first day of the seventh month was appointed by the Law to be "a day of blowing of trumpets". There was to be a holy convocation; no servile work was to be done; and special sacrifices were to be offered (Lev. xxiii. 23-25; Num. xxix. 1-6). This day was not expressly called New-Year's Day, but it was evidently so regarded by the Jews at a very early period." Rosh_Hashanah Where else were the shofros and the special chatzotzros ("trumpets") blown, not to mentioned the offerings of the special korbanot for that day, if not in the Temple in Jerusalem? And what about all the information in Masechta Rosh HaShanah in the Talmud? IZAK 08:48, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think this is a very broad definition of subjects, and potentially confusing. It suggests that these holidays were only celebrated in the Mishkan/Beis haMikdosh (quod non). Perhaps you should tighten up a bit. JFW | T@lk  12:53, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I really disagree with you, because when when several "categories" are placed at the bottom of pages it does NOT mean or "suggest(s) that these holidays were only celebrated in the Mishkan/Beis haMikdosh", it DOES mean that there is a direct strong relationship and connection between the subject of the article and the category. This is very common when multiple categories are placed on pages. The shalosh regalim and the moadim were intrinsic parts of Temple worship and all the major korbanot that were offered up ONLY in the Temple/ are mentioned explicitly in every siddur and machzor (particularly of Orthodoxy) today. After all, what was the main purpose of the Tabernacle and the Temple in Jerusalem if not do do the avoda (service) the high-points of which were culminated on the High Holy Days and the Three pilgrim festivals? The intelligent reader will actually gain and learn and not be "confused". Have you really taken a comprehensive look at the fairly liberal usage of categories on all sorts pages lately? You make it seem like I am some sort of exception here which is absolutely not valid or correct because I have given this new category much thought. It would not be enough to include merely the "physical contstructs" of the Tabernacle and Temple. The sources, functions, usages, purposes, goals, events and meanings of the Tabernacles and the Temples can and must be brought "under the one roof" of this category otherwise the category will become like an empty house without life, meaning, or a soul to it. Thanks for your input and understanding. IZAK 03:13, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ablution in Judaism
There's a question at Talk:Ablution in Judaism; I wonder if you wouldn't mind weighing in? Jayjg (talk) 17:49, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Hope my input helped. IZAK 09:29, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Golan Heights
Well, I've done what I can, but the editors there are clearly applying a double standard. Perhaps you can get involved again, I'm done for now. Jayjg (talk) 05:48, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hebrews?
I've never edited Hebrews, as far as I can recall - is there some piece of pro-Israeli POV there I need to fix? If so, thanks for alerting me. ;) - Mustafaa 11:33, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Yea, you're right, not much action at Hebrews, all your fire was directed at Hebrew languages. How silly of me to confuse the Hebrew people with their language. IZAK 22:30, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Re-opening arbitration
I've posted a request to re-open the arbitration case against you. Please see Requests for arbitration. -- Netoholic @ 17:15, 2005 Apr 4 (UTC)

VfD
You may have an interest in this: Votes for deletion/Anti-globalization and Anti-Semitism. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:58, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)

Grogger License
Image:Purim Gragger.gif Hello IZAK. Where is the source of this picture? Can I upload to Japanese Wikipedia? (See Japanese "Purim" article.) Shalom Alekhem. --Sheynhertz-Unbayg 05:01, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi, it is a personal picture of mine and you may use it. Enjoy! IZAK 05:07, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

STP
Hi Izak, thanks for the note about STP. I added a comment to the proposed case against you brought by Netaholic, but I don't think I have anything to add about STP as I have no personal knowledge of him being Alberuni. Thanks for letting me know about it though. Best, SlimVirgin (talk) 10:11, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC) Here's what I added to your comment section. SlimVirgin (talk) 10:49, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, thank you for your efforts. IZAK 10:30, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I saw it. Much appreciated. IZAK 09:28, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Votes for deletion/Anti-globalization and Anti-Semitism
You might be interested in Votes for deletion/Anti-globalization and Anti-Semitism. Jayjg (talk) 17:32, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

New article: Women for Israel's Tomorrow
Please consider reading this new article I just created. --AladdinSE 11:57, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok, did that. Thanks. IZAK 07:34, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Image:Kinghussein.jpg
Why did you change the license status of this image from unverified to PD? This is in fact a copyrighted picture. Thuresson 02:42, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Sorry, an oversight. IZAK 07:22, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Your notes
Izak, thanks for this and other notes. I need to figure out who/what this is about, I had no clue about him. &larr;Humus sapiens&larr;Talk 09:22, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * The notes are about different articles with different editors. Thanks. IZAK 09:26, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Maxwell
Izak I sincerely hope you are not feeling obliged to defend Maxwell's reputation because he was Jewish. This will not reflect well on you. He was a corrupt slimeball who stole from his own employees. Had he not died he would certainly have been both bankrupted and imprisoned. You should stop adding weasel-words like "controversial" to the article in place of plain statements of well-attested fact. Adam 08:31, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Adam, as you well-know I respect and appreciate your wisdom and abilities. I honestly do NOT feel "obliged to defend Maxwell's reputation because he was Jewish" or to defend anyone else's reputation for that matter. But when I read the Robert Maxwell article, I noticed that certain Users just could not restrain themsleves from throwing mud, instead of writing in a "standard" scholarly NPOV style. This article has also become a bizarre magnet for certain pro-Arab, neo-Nazi, and anti-Semitic types who are then very happy to use the article as a "whipping boy" in an indirect way of "getting back at the Jews and Israel" in any way they can. I suspect that to User:AladdinSE his introduction (on 12 April 2005) of Image:Robert Maxwell.jpg (Maxwell's "mug shot") is a further "extension" of the vicious Nazi "cartoon" he introduced (on 2 April 2005) Image:Der Giftpilz - Gott des Juden - Nazi propaganda.jpg which he originally called "MoneyJews" and following in the line of the horrendous pro-Palestinian "cartoon" (introduced on 23 Jan 2005) Image:Shark Palestine Caricature.jpg (which I had submitted for deletion, see Image talk:Shark Palestine Caricature.jpg). As you must well-know by now, there are some people here who tend to be "unfriendly" to Jews no matter what, so when I saw the Maxwell piece it surprised me that it was peppered with "slime ball" (as you call it) talk and subjected to frequent vandalism. As an inpartial historian and academician how can one possibly stoop to the methodology and "language" befitting a tabloid and not an encyclopedia? There is no room for yellow journalism-type articles and wording on Wikipedia. So all I am trying to do is use LANGUAGE that befits scholars and not barbarians. Again, I stress, I have the highest regard for your integrity, but we can't allow Wikipedia to start sounding like a "Rupert Murdoch-run tabloid", ever! (And hey, Robert Maxwell is not even around to argue his OWN case -- to which he too is entitled by any fair standard of the law of a civilised state.) All the best. IZAK 09:20, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Language links
Just a remark. The language links, like this, it:Guido Castelnuovo should be at the very bottom of the article, after the categories, and all grouped together. I can't now tell you a reference for that, but there is indeed a rule that things must be so. Cheers, Oleg Alexandrov 15:19, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi Oleg, I understand what you are saying, but can you tell me exactly where this policy is stated. Thanks. IZAK 08:23, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I can't. I need to search for it. Let me just give you a simple explanation. If you put the link in the wrong place, and not together with other links at the bottom, people or robots adding interwiki links might miss it. Also, putting a link in the middle makes it very likely somebody else will fix it for you. So, think of putting the links at the bottom as just a good habit, worth following. If you really insist, I could go search for that rule. Oleg Alexandrov 15:02, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

See Category. Oleg Alexandrov 00:21, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, thank you for this reference. I appreciate your work!!! Best wishes! IZAK 05:29, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Khazars
Khazars is up for nomination on Featured_article_candidates. Since you were involved in some of the editing I thought you would be interested. Your vote and/or comments would be appreciated. Thanks! --Briangotts 16:04, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi, thank you, I have given it my "Support" vote now. Thanks. IZAK 05:07, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

User:Powergrid
Please note the "contributions" of User:Powergrid; he seem determined to violate Wikipedia's content and NPOV rules. Jayjg (talk) 23:28, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Another hour, another sock puppet, it never ends...IZAK 05:21, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Deletion
Done. Jayjg (talk) 08:18, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you. IZAK 08:21, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

VfDs

 * 1) Izak, you might be interested to vote at Votes for deletion/Jenin massacre.  &larr;Humus sapiens&larr;Talk 23:22, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) You might also be interested in Votes for deletion/Judeofascism. Jayjg (talk) 02:49, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the notifications.IZAK 05:20, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

POV edits to List of ethnic slurs
You added the following to List of ethnic slurs: Judeofascism - denigration of Judaism via a false verbal connection to Fascism, meant as an "insult" to the label "Zionism". IZAK, you know better than this. As offensive as you find this term (and understandably so), you must still remain cognizant of Wikipedia's NPOV policy. If you feel that you are unable to write a NPOV description of a specific term, action, or event due to your personal feelings, please ask someone else to do so in your stead. In any case, this term is already on List of political epithets. I see no reason why it should be listed on List of ethnic slurs as well. For what it's worth, I think the separate Judeofascism article should be either deleted or redirected to List of political epithets. Firebug 05:11, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Dear Firebug, I was about to move my submission but you beat me to the draw. As for describing, "Judeofascism" as a "denigration of Judaism via a false verbal connection to Fascism, meant as an "insult" to the label "Zionism", " what are you getting so steamed up about? It happens to be true AFAIK. IZAK 05:19, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

New template
Trying for Template:Israelis

lady rabbis
Wouldn't the Hebrew word for such people be "rabbit"s? Tomer TALK 16:15, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * But then that would be "discriminating" against the male rabbit's wouldn't it??? IZAK 02:55, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, those poor rabid rabbim. Tomer TALK  08:13, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC) &#1495;&#1490; &#1499;&#1513;&#1512; &#1493;&#1513;&#1502;&#1495;!- ChanochGruenman 12:28, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you, to you too!IZAK 02:55, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Category:Islamophobes
I've put it up for deletion; you'll find it at WP:CFD. Jayjg (talk) 20:23, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A.I.Kook Licence
Image:Kook color.jpg Hello! Where is the source of this picture? Can I upload to Japanese article? --Sheynhertz-Unbayg 01:24, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi, it is a very old sketch that is widely circulated and used among Rabbi Kook's admirers and as far as I know no-one has ever been stopped from using it. IZAK 07:44, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Todo list
Hi IZAK, thanks for your suggestions and for believing in me :)) I'll put those on my Todo list - which is getting longer lately due to increased vandalism & edit wars, etc. Shalom. &larr;Humus sapiens&larr;Talk 07:02, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * No problem thank you. IZAK 08:36, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Kosher wine
Yitziq...could you please look over my recent additions to Kosher wine for accuracy and spelling/punctuation/grammar/ etc? Tomer TALK 08:14, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. IZAK 08:36, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks. My familiarity with the Conservative "movement" is basically little more than a passing fancy. :-p  Tomer TALK  09:02, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

OK, keep on moving then....IZAK 09:32, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Should I say "thanks for nothing" then? I do appeciate your edits tho... :-p Tomer <sup style="color:#129DBC;">TALK  10:17, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

You like being "conservative"..?IZAK 10:20, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Heh. Um, that'll be a big "no", but I'm not ashkenazi, so happily, I find myself comfortably outside of all the (from outside, ridiculous) controversies...I do, however, find that a lot of "Conservative Judaism" is completely in line with traditionally Sefardi interpretation.  I meant no disrespect by inviting your participation., but I have found your contributions to be "fair" wrt to Masortiyut, rather that the (IMHO) obscene dogmaticism of most of ortodosiyut.  Tomer <sup style="color:#129DBC;">TALK  10:30, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * And yes, I say "orthoðosiyuþ". :-p Tomer <sup style="color:#129DBC;">TALK 10:32, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Ah, but this is Wikipedia my friend and I understand the meaning of NPOV, it's sort of like Never Never Land. It is not like the "real world" where rebbes and rosh yeshivas are the bosses in the world of Torah and Talmud, so you may as well enjoy your stay on this ever-growing digital cyber-island of "neutral" information. Let me know when you do make up your mind tho, I am always curious to see where people land up eventually... IZAK 10:44, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh chill out. My mind is made up.  I accept the OU for my kosher lepesach yayanim.  I'm happy to remain, however, completely sefardi. :-p  My only hope is that I can retain my nutraliyut without compromising my inteligentziyut beeditiyut haartiqlim baviqipedya.  :-p  Çagh kasher vesimça, çevraþkha, Tomer.  Tomer <sup style="color:#129DBC;">TALK  10:59, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

I need to "chill"? I didn't know I was even warming up! If you accept the Orthodox OU's rabbis (some of whom are real poskim) why did you refer to Conservative rabbis as "poskim" when no-one refers to them by that title (name me one known Conservative "posek" by the way --- one who BUILDS up the Halakha and does not always break it down into nonsense --- ?) As for being Sefardi, why do you always bring that into the discussions here? Who cares what you are, as long as you are a good Jew when dealing with other Jews and Judaism (and with the rest of the world.) I am sure that God does not expect anyone to have a lobotomy "leshem shamayim" just so that one should be a "blind follower". I think there is room enough in this big wide world of ours to have all kinds of people, both devout Haredim and free-thinking Jews, as long as they all believe in the one God of Judaism and hopefully are not "learning-disabled" when it comes to understanding the meaning of maintaining the HIGHER standards of the Shulkhan Arukh and not to "water it down" as the Conservative clergy is prone to do (see your own research at Kosher wine to verify this), or like the Reform rabbis who, like Clark Gable's closing words in Gone with the Wind say: "Frankly I don't give a damn" about Jewish law most of the time...(that was a nice movie, maybe we can go see it sometimes, it's all about the perils of civil war and other such Real World catastrophes.) Keep up the good questions tho...IZAK 11:28, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I said chill out because I think you're getting too many crinkles in your undies over unnecessary things, and I see now I was correct in my assessment. I only mention that I'm sefardi because I don't want anyone to think my opinions should hold any weight in the argumentative realm of ashkenaziyut.  I only brought the "conservative viewpoint" into the melieu because I happen to think it's noteworthy in the discussion about the kashrut of yayin, not within my world, but within the worldview of ashkenazim, who do, as it happens, constitute about (at least according to the Jewish ethnolical divisons article,) 70% of Jews worldwide.  I mention it at the same time, because I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from dragging me into the very christian-like dogmatic disputes you Ashkenazim seem to take pleasure in entertaining.  And, oh yeah, I didn't engage in any "research" wrt to the Conservative view of the kashrut of yayanim meameriqa.  I read an opinion on Viqipedya, and conveyed it.  Tomer <sup style="color:#129DBC;">TALK  12:04, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

(Please leave my underwear out of this discussion, and I promise not to discuss what you wear or don't wear.) So by now, with your multiple mention of your Sefardi heritage over and over again (I have never brought this topic up first), pray tell which genuine Sefardic great rabbi says that it's ok to rely on Conservative opinions about the kashrut of wines or Conservative opinions and views about anything else for that matter? Why don't you contribute the Sefardic religious view about this subject? (I know, secular Sefardim don't care what they drink, right?) And I take great exception to calling open intellectual discussions about Jewish religious differences in Judaism, as being "Christian-like"...when it is truthfully the Jewish way to always discuss things again and again until we can arrive at the truth (have you heard of that concept?). Further, have you not seen how Sefardim especially "bargain" in the shuk, or in business or in the real world? Is that a pretty sight? I think having intellectual discussions is a lot more enjoyable mind you...have you not seen how this is done in any respectable Sefardi OR Ashkenazi yeshiva ever? Be well, I have to go pray now...bye!IZAK 12:39, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll avoid trying to kick you in the balls for your intentional and prejudicial jabs against sefardim, and try to bring this back to the topic at hand. I never tried to present conservative ideology as "in line" with sefardic posqim.  I simply tried to inject the conservative view wrt wine, which is regarded as authoritative by about 45% of American Jewry as authoritative, as presented in Klein's work, into the article.  I asked for your input, and that is all.  Period, done widit.  jag kasher vesaméaj.  Tomer <sup style="color:#129DBC;">TALK  12:52, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)