User talk:IZAK/Archive 9

Please check my translation
Hi IZAK. I'm a new user to Wikipedia and I've been trying my best to contribute in areas where I can. One possible area in which I contribute is English/Hebrew translation, but not having ever done it professionally, I'd like your opinion of my first ever attempt to do so, in a minor edit to the English page for the Israeli village of Hod Hasharon. I added a comment that the Hebrew version seemed to be saying about Hod Hasharon's relationship with its neighboring villages. Thanks! -- Ke6jjj 23:13, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I have done so now. IZAK 13:33, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Ritual Decalogue
Would you mind taking a look at this article? Much apprecited if you could. Jayjg (talk) 20:09, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Did so, and nominated it for deletion. IZAK 13:33, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

VfD you may be interested in
Check out the VfD going on over User:Witkacy/Black Book. Tomer TALK 23:04, August 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * Added my comments. What a joke it all is. IZAK 13:33, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Rav Schwab
IZAK, the time has come for me to write up Rav Shimon Schwab. Could you help along? JFW | T@lk  23:27, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Have now done that. IZAK 13:33, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Adminship
I have been nominated for adminship. Hope you will weigh in at. --Briangotts (talk) 23:41, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I did, best wishes. IZAK 13:33, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks!!! --Briangotts (talk) 17:35, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Rabbi Yochanan
You may wish to see Talk:Rabbi Yochanan and add your comments.  &mdash;msh210 01:36, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Passover
Well, it's better than before; before the Christanity part was in the same article! I don't know if "Christian Passover" is notable (it seems to just be Easter). If it isn't notable, the whole article should be sent to VfD. If it is, which I doubt, then I suppose it's only fair to keep the link. HKT talk 15:52, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


 * If it gets deleted, Keeves will be regretting his move! JFW | T@lk  16:37, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Hey IZAK, thanks for bringing this to my attention. The problem seems to have been "cured" already...hopefully this doesn't turn into a fracas. It doesn't hurt to mention that there are non-Jews who celebrate Passover "in their own way". Basically from what I understand, Christians who "celebrate Passover" have a seder in which they completely misreinterpret everything on the seder plate. Also, it's not a few isolated individuals who do this, there are a lot of Christians in the US who have "seders" of this sort. Personally, I'd rather see this stuff moved to a different article like it is, although the name may have to be changed to something like Passover (Christian observance)...meanwhile, it'd be a good idea to keep an eye on the new article, to keep POV-pushing out of it... I have a feeling the "Reformed Nazarene" crowd will be along soon to "fix" that article. Tomer TALK 16:42, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Menasseh Ben Israel
Hi Izak, I see that you have moved Menasseh Ben Israel to Menasseh ben Israel and stated as reason that “His name is Mennasseh ben Israel ("Ben Israel" is NOT his surname, as Jews did not have surnames at that time.” Whereas that may be true for the majority of Ashkenazi Jews, it is an entirely uncorrect statement when speaking, as in this case, about Sephardi Jews:

Surnames have been around since Mediaeval times amongst Sephardi Jews. In this case, the surname “Ben Israel” was also used as one of the two alternative names by Menasseh’s son &mdash; known as “Samuel Abrabanel Soeyra” or “Samuel Ben Israel”. Here are some of the many typical family names amongst Spanish and Portuguese Jews of the period: Abrabanel/Abravanel, Alfassi/Alfassa Ben Israel, Cardozo/Cardoso, Lopez/Lopes/Lobo, Mendes, Nasi, Perera/Pereyra, Sasportas, Sealtiel, Spinoza/De Spinoza, Teixeira, Vaz Nunes, etc. -- Olve 22:30, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Minhag
Have a look at this new page: Minhag. JFW | T@lk  23:08, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Aelia Capitolina
Please take a look at User:TheUnforgiven's latest outrage against litarature and history. I am at my revert limit. --Briangotts (talk) 19:46, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Resh Lakish
Started another of those articles-from-the-Jewish-Encyclopedia-that's-been-heavily-modified-and-wikified-but-could-probably-use-more-work. Feel free to weigh in ;-) --Briangotts (talk) 20:51, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Edit summaries
Not that I see anything wrong with this edit of yours, but the edit summary is really rather misleading. If someone were unhappy with the edit, they could complain about that, with justice. Again, no problem from me, just giving you a heads-up to possibly head off future problems. -- Jmabel | Talk 00:43, August 13, 2005 (UTC)


 * Hi Jmabel: I looked into it and I cannot for the life of me see the problem. In the edit summary I put what I felt was the main addition that I had added. Did you want me to list every tiny copy-edit detail as well? I don't think that that's required in edit summaries. IZAK 03:06, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Many Thanks
Thanks for supporting my RFA. It couldn't have happened without your effort. FeloniousMonk 18:11, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
 * You're more than welcome, and best wishes with your valiant efforts in dealing with (certain) internet trolls. IZAK 03:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Tzadik
Please see what I wrote in Tzadik, and if I only wrote from a chabad viewpoint please add in other viewpoints as well. Thanks. --Eliezer | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€  14:54, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Also please comment on the talk page of chabad regarding what I wrote there: ''I have created a new article that deals with the concept of a Tzadik, and merged the contents of the "Relationship between God, the Rebbe and his followers" section into it. Therefore if there is consensus I will be removing the section from here and replace it with a link to Tzadik.'' --Eliezer | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€  16:00, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Dhimmi and Ger Toshav
Please see User:Heraclius latest edits pointing the articles to each other. Jayjg (talk) 00:29, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Need Hebrew letters on Na Nach Nachma page
Izak, I created the page on the Na Nach Nachma mantra, complete with an explanation of how it is based on the letters of Nachman of Breslov's name. But I do not know how to do Hebrew letters in Wiki. Judging from your talk page here, you do. Could you add them to that section? Toda rabbah! User:rooster613

Kempler Video
The article that you helped write on Yitzhak Rabin assassination conspiracy theories is being taken over by two guys who are trying to silence it. I wrote the page Kempler video which is a candidate for deletion and I linked to the page you worked on. These guys are taking out the link so they can successfully delete Kempler video. User:Kempler Video

Thanks so much for averting the deletion. I realy believe that we will be making history in a short period of time. please contact me so that we can work together to overcome the censor on this subject. It is only one headline from being international news. Write to me at email address on the website. yitzhakrabin@gmail.com Kempler video. User:Kempler Video
 * Hi, sorry, but my interests here mainly involve Wikipedia. I am NOT interested in creating "international news" because I am only a humble Wikipedia editor and contributor and I am not a "one-issue" race horse either. I am glad to have been of help to you though on Wikipedia on the plain merits of the facts that I believe that the Kempler video is now an important part of Jewish and Israeli history and should not be suppressed on an Internet encyclopedia like Wikipedia. Best wishes, IZAK 05:39, 23 August 2005 (UTC)e

Izak, you are the best. You just have contributed to history just by keeping an eye on Kempler video. Hopefully, stuff will happen soon b"h.Kempler video. User:Kempler Video 08:34, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * KV: I am not doing it to "please you" or anyone else, it is just my "professional opinion" so to speak, that Kempler video is worth it as a 100% valid Wikipedia article. Nothing more and nothing less. IZAK 02:43, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Gidonb and Jayjg are all over the place deleting links toKempler video nd now they are changing the content of Kempler video to make the article meaningless. User:Kempler video 02:43, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I am aware of it. Jayjg and Gidonb happen to be very sensible editors, so try to at least hear them out. Right now I am so bogged down with other things, I simply cannot get involved in your argument/s with them. When things calm down, I may look at the article again. I am not as "invested" in this topic as you are. There is more to life than "The Rise and Fall of Yitschak Rabin"! Why not see if you could make yourself useful in other subjects about Israel instead of fighting flame-wars about a "one horse issue"? IZAK 03:12, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Tzemach Tzedek and the Rebbe
I noticed the you wrote that Menachem Mendel Schneersohn is a cousin of the Rebbe. He was in fact his great-great grandfather. I corrected it on the Menachem Mendel Schneersohn page, and as I looked through the history I noticed you wrote that they were cousins, so I just want to set the record straight. Eliezerke 04:55, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia. I don't know what you mean. I have not edited those pages in a long time. I will need to see what this is all about. IZAK 05:09, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, first of all I originally did write that "The last and seventh Chabad Lubavitch Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson was a sixth in direct paternal line from this prior third Rebbe called "Menachem Mendel' , and was named for him." . The idea of "cousin" was that the Rebbe was related to the Schneersohns with an "h" since his name did not have the "h" in it. But as I said, it's been a while since I edited this. Your vigilance is appreciated. IZAK 05:23, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Universal Torah Registry
Is this for real? --Briangotts (talk) 18:24, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * It is, see http://www.jcrcny.org/html/torah1.html, but it's NOT a significant undertaking at this time. I doubt if many communities know about this effort or care to "register" their Torah scrolls. What they do is build huge "commercial size" safes into their arks to deter would-be burglars and keeps the Torahs "safe" when not in use. IZAK 02:38, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * This idea has serious halakhic implications, which is, I would guess, why it has yet to catch on even on a small scale. Tomer TALK  06:18, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

RE: Category:Ashkenazi Jews
I've commented. Not sure you'll be pleased with my comments. It really is a rubbish category tho...about as pointless as Category:Canadian Jewish baseball players in the NFL. Cheers. Tomer TALK 06:02, August 31, 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks, your efforts and comments are always astute and I actually like them most of the time (who needs "yes" men in any case?)! IZAK 06:03, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Take the point about this category. What about Category:Spanish and Portuguese Jews? Are they exempt because of their (relative) rarity value? RachelBrown 10:42, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Rachel: You seem to misunderstand the application of the word "Jews" when placed in a category or article. It's NOT a cart blanche invitation to add every last Jew on Earth who may have came from Spain or Portugal, it's rather the heading for the general subject/s relating to Jews in those countries. Otherwise there are going to be umpteen useless categories of people by religion and ethnicty (when in any case there are plenty of Wikipedia lists that do the job just as well.) Perhaps for key individuals who are symbols of that category, fine put them in, but to create categories of the names of every last Jew who has only the remotest connection to being from Spain or Portugal or that lived in Portugal or Spain or anywhere else becomes only an exercise in futility and should be strenuously avoided in an encyclopedia. Otherwise it will just look a like a "telephone directory" from over the centuries. Is that what you want?IZAK 22:39, 31 August 2005 (UTC)


 * You still didn't respond to my query about your change in the Ashkenazi Jews category so I will write again here. I do not agree that the utility of the original category was to provide a "telephone book"-like list of all Ashkenazic Jews, but instead functioned to provide an indicator, on each individual's page, that s/he is of that ancestry.  Many people have Jewish heritage (Ashkenazic or otherwise) that is not generally known, and the category provided a clear and very apparent way for this to be acknowledged, on each person's website.  To my knowledge, the only other way this heritage could be determined is if, in the text of each individual's biography, this information was included, but I'm not sure that is the case.  Or, if there were a category that was simply "Jews."  Otherwise their heritage would not be acknowledged.  So it really is a loss for our encyclopedia, and you've taken it upon yourself to "delete all" without first gaining consensus.  I hope you will be able to accept these comments thoughtfully.  Badagnani 23:44, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

thanks
Thanks for taking the time to correct that on my page, thought I had removed all such stuff on the drafts, but missed that one, sorry for the annoyance.John Z 08:46, 31 August 2005 (UTC)


 * John: No problem at all! Thanks for the thanks! IZAK

page invitation
Here's an new opportunity. The page only had one line and I've made it beefy. Please come criticise :)&mdash; &lt; T A L K JNDRLINE T A L K &gt;
 * Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I enjoyed this article. No "criticism" this time, just added some edits. IZAK 22:28, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

JAG
Articles for deletion/Jews Against Circumcision - please vote. JFW | T@lk  22:00, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I have added my vote. Thanks for letting me know. IZAK 22:29, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Categories
You've been removing articles from Category:Ashkenazi Jews and Category:Sephardi Jews. These categories are almost wholly populated by articles on people; moreover, their titles make no sense except as catgories for people &mdash; what are Jews if not people? Perhpas you don't like the idea of categorising people by religion or ethnic group, in which case you should put up the categories for deletion.

Category:Sephardi Jews topics &amp; Category:Ashkenazi Jews topics are peculiarly ungrammatically named categories (and the same for the related articles). I'm about to propose moves; would Category:Ashkenazi Judaism &amp; Category:Sephardi Judaism be OK for the categories, and similar changes be OK for the articles? --Mel Etitis ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 08:07, 1 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Agreed! The names Category:Sephardi Jews topics and Category:Ashkenazi Jews topics stand out as particularly clumsy when compared with comparable category names like Category:Norwegian people, Category:German people &mdash; which, incidentally and naturally of course contain topics (also known as subcategories...).


 * I would propose to have the respective top categories be named simply Category:Sephardim and Category:Ashkenazim. Then one can fill them up with subcategories like Category:Sephardi Judaism, Category:Sephardi people (or Category:Sephardi Jews), Category:Sephardi art, etc. Olve 00:02, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

VfD Campaign against books critical to Islam
Recently I've been filling out the category Category:Books critical of Islam with articles about a contemporary books that are critical of Islam. One would think that documenting a verifiyable sub genre of books would not cause offense. But sadly this is not the case. I urge all wikipedian's concerned with having an encyclopedic encyclopedia to look at the following articles and their VfD's. Klonimus 23:34, 4 September 2005 (UTC)


 * The Nazi Connection to Islamic Terrorism
 * Islam and Terrorism: What the Quran Really Teaches About Christianity, Violence and the Goals of the Islamic Jihad
 * Islam and the Jews: The Unfinished Battle

Please have a look
Please have a look at Category:Superstition, its CFD, the editing of and a sweet little exchange on Talk:Prayer. JFW | T@lk  11:18, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Edom
Thought you might be interested; I've done a major revision of the article Edom, including the latest research. --Briangotts (talk) 16:57, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Asa of Judah
I was reading the Asa of Judah article and I came across the statement that the Nubians were mistakenly called Ethiopians in 2 Chronicles. The history of the page shows that you were the original author on that page. I was hoping that you might be able to help explain where you found that information. --Tornado419 03:39, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Kazan et al
I received the following query from a Tatar editor with whom I've worked on some articles:


 * Hi! Could you start a stub Hebrew edition of Kazan and Tatars articles. Some my friends are studing Hebrew, but thel level of knowlege isn't advanced as well... Please, note, that Semitic 'q' should be used in word 'Qazan'! Thank you, --User:Untifler 13:08, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to help him out but I don't have a Hebrew-typing program and I don't have the knowledge of Unicode necessary to do this efficiently; in any case my knowledge of day-to-day conversational Hebrew will probably not help much in a scholarly encyclopedia piece. Would you be interested in helping out and/or do you know anyone who would be interested? --Briangotts (talk) 20:29, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Template:Middle Eastern deities
I thought you might be interested in Template:Middle Eastern deities. Jayjg (talk) 20:30, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

?
Why are you so rude to people?
 * Why are you afraid to get a normal User name and ID? It's hard to know what to make of an anonymous user, who out of the blue, hurls silly accusations for no good reason. IZAK 06:42, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Hebrew Alphabet
Shalom IZAK! I was looking at the different articles on the different Hebrew letters, and realized that it would be really great if they followed the same format. Aleph is full of mystical stuff, Beth is all pronunciation, repeated several times, and the rest are just stubs. I jotted down my idea for a standardized letter and tried it out with Aleph and Bet here. Check it out and tell me if you think I should start working on the rest of the alphabet. Your comments will be appreciated; I've already asked a couple of other users. I just want to get some input before I go ahead and change all 22 articles! Sputnikcccp 02:42, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi Sputnik, your suggestion/s seem/s ok, but there are a number of other editors who will give their input once this gets more involved. Keep on trying. IZAK 07:54, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Religion in Israel
Hi IZAK. I thought you might be interested in improving the Religion in Israel article. Cheers. Jayjg (talk) 22:12, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I have added some pertinent information to it. It needs lots more work. IZAK 07:56, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

List of minor Biblical figures
Hi. I noticed that you've done a lot of work on the List of Biblical figures, and was wondering if you could help me fill out the List of minor Biblical figures created pursuant to an AfD discussion on Uel. The list is intended to capture persons named in the Bible, but for whom there is not enough information to justify an individual article. Cheers! BD2412 talk 02:46, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Rami Saari
FUI Rami Saari, new contrib. shalom. mikka (t) 05:32, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Vfd
Articles for deletion/Day of Atonement, Christian - please vote. JFW | T@lk  03:47, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Have now voted. IZAK 04:58, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

great photo of Jerusalem!!
Great photo of misty Jerusalem on your user page. Thank you! Joaquin Murietta 17:13, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

"This article is part of a series on Hasidic dynasties"
IZAK, can I please remove this from all those articles. We have categories for that. Please... JFW | T@lk  04:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I see your point, but the problem arose when someone made a redirect to Berdychiv out of Berditchev (Hasidic dynasty) which is when I created the "Note" and then I thought it would be helpfull on the other pages dealing with Hasidic dynasties, but if you think it's "over-doing it" then I will halt for now and do as you think is right for now, and let's see how things evolve. Best wishes for a Chag Sameach! IZAK 05:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Talk:613 mitzvot
Please have a look and offer your comments here. JFW | T@lk  10:33, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know. I have reverted the article to its earlier form. IZAK 02:38, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

deleting jews

 * Articles for deletion/List of Jewish Members of Russian Academy of Sciences. mikka (t) 17:27, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Jewish Fellows of the Royal Society
 * I chose to stay out of these votes (for now). I am getting a little tired of all these meaningless lists of so-called "Jews" (many of the people are barely Jewish by most definitions). When and how will these lists end? I once favored a few lists with people of very special significance whose "Jewishness" can somehow be said to have been crucial in their lives and their achievments, but what have 99% these people really added to "Jews and Judaism"??? Maybe we should just delete all the lists with names of those people who basically never wanted to be known as Jews and had hardly anything to do with their Jewish brethren? I am baffled by what the lists mean and what they have turned into...basically worthless collections of names. IZAK 08:52, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Requests for adminship/Anonymous editor
Thought you might be interested in the this. I sinscerly doubt that Anonymous editor can separate his Islamic faith from his potential admin duties. Klonimus 05:22, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know enough about him. IZAK 05:36, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Why do you present an unhelpful attitude?
For some reason you have seen fit to insert your unhelpful and caustic attitude where it is neither welcome nor required. If you can not bring constructive suggestions to a discussion, then you have no business inserting yourself into it. It is especially disingenuous to come in and call me a liar for saying that I was going to try what the guy suggested, especially when you could have seen for yourself that I already had done just that! I don't know what is the cause of your difficult attitude. It does not appear that it is your normal way of dealing with things, if your talk page is any indication. Thus I have to wonder what has caused this reaction. Joshbaumgartner 07:10, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Josh, not to worry honestly, but at least I got a reaction out of you and I therefore find it reassuring that you have taken to heart what I only considered to be helpful constructive criticism for the better and "higher" cause of ensuring that Wikipedia evolves into a healthy encyclopedia and not into a Medusa-like monstrosity going nowhere quickly. IZAK 07:38, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Then I will not worry, although I do hope you realize that I have been very responsive to those who have questions about my efforts, and that I have been eager to adopt constuctive suggestions that have been brought up. Joshbaumgartner 07:56, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes I do know this and that is why I felt I could comment openly to you, knowing that what is important is the goal of keeping Wikipedia from becoming unwieldy. Keep up the untiring efforts! IZAK 08:11, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Ammon (nation)
I've made substantial revisions to this article, adding a lot of material from Jewish Encyclopedia and elsewhere. It still needs a lot of work and I will add more archaeological stuff when I have time. Thought you might be interested though. --Briangotts (talk) 19:51, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry I haven't had time to look into this. Will hopefully try at a later stage as time permits. Keep in touch. IZAK 08:55, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Rabbi Yitzchak Kaduri
Shalom! Please look at and correct fresh start of Yitzchak Kaduri. Yours five
 * Thanks. IZAK

Your opinion is appreciated
Hi IZAK, could you take a look at Talk:Palestine (region). All the best! &larr;Humus sapiens&larr;ну? 08:52, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. IZAK 09:09, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Naming conventions for articles on Jews
As there is a great deal of inconsistency in the naming of articles about Jews, I have proposed that they be made consistent. I'd appreciate it if you could commment on this here: Template_talk:Jew. Thanks. Jayjg (talk) 07:55, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. I agree with your suggestion/s. IZAK 08:42, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

What Wikipedia is not
Good comments, I'll keep an eye on it. Jayjg (talk) 17:18, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

New articles
I've started a few articles I thought you might have an interest in. Right now they are largely pastes from the Jewish Encyclopedia, but I've wikified them and made some edits. I plan to do more in the future but I'd be glad for any help you choose to give:


 * Talmudic Academies in Babylonia
 * Nehardea
 * Dosetai
 * Anilai and Asinai

Briangotts (talk) 19:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Have you voted ?
Was really surprized to see this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Ramallite

Mormon Jew template
It's obviously a POV fork - I would recommend putting it up at Templates for deletion. Jayjg (talk) 17:37, 1 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I have deleted the template from both the articles. For Mormons and Judaism it was irrelevant, since the template provides seperate articles to each religion with a combined discussion only in the Mormons-Judaism article itself. For the other article it unfairly tilted the discussion to one of the groups. In both cases it was POV. gidonb  00:25, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Various articles
You're right, I think they should all be merged. Alternatively, with the "History" article, the information could be removed from the main article and it could be pointed to the sub-article, though I still think a merge is better. Jayjg (talk) 17:43, 1 November 2005 (UTC)