User talk:I dream of horses/2013/August

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (U.S. state and territory highways)
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Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/SeaKeeper 1000 concern
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Please comment on Talk:John Buchan, 1st Baron Tweedsmuir
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The Signpost: 07 August 2013

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Please comment on Talk:Natalie Tran
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The Signpost: 14 August 2013

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hey
Uhhh just curious how is this vandalism? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Anomalies_of_Artificial_Origin&diff=568890979&oldid=568890957 All I did was help out the article and move a section over to make it look like how other album pages do
 * Didn't realize that was actually the bands' name. My bad. --I dream of horses (T) @ 05:10, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh you thought Abominable Putridity was vandalism? Haha xD nope, that's actually their band name lol — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.225.130.62 (talk) 05:26, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

I LOVE YOU :* — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.70.27.238 (talk) 05:29, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Well thank you
Gho2t993 (talk) 05:47, 17 August 2013 (UTC)gho2t993 I would like you thank you for your message I have question how to use talk page.
 * If you wish, you can email me your question. --I dream of horses (T) @ 15:59, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

August 2013
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Please comment on Talk:Prince George of Cambridge
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The Aramaic Gospel of Matthew
Shalom! The early Jewish following of Jesus, the Ebionites, read exclusively from that Gospel which was written by Matthew, also called Levi, who was a publican, and who published his Gospel in the Aramaic tongue in Hebrew characters, as we learn from Jerome (Commentariorum in Mattheum Libri IV, ch.12, vs.13, ed. D.Hurst):

"…In the Gospel which the Nazoraeans and the Ebionites use which we translated recently from Hebrew to Greek and which is called the authentic text of Matthew by a good many…"

Note here that Jerome says that their copy of Matthew's gospel was considered by many to be the original gospel of Matthew.

Or as we learn from Jerome in a different place (Dialogus adversus Pelagianos, in: Migne, Patr. Lat. 23, Parisiis 1883, III, 2):

"From the Gospel According to the Hebrews. In the Gospel According to the Hebrews, which was written in the Chaldaic and Syriac language but with Hebrew letters, and is used up to the present day by the Nazoraeans…"

That same original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew, or what was often called by the Jewish church, According to the Hebrews, contained no reference to the genealogical record as it appears in today's copies of Matthew's Greek translation (Evangelion), which latter is an interpolation. Thus do we learn from Epiphanius (Anacephalaiosis 14:1). Epiphanius had taken notice that the first chapter of Matthew which speaks on Jesus' nativity was missing in that gospel used by the Ebionites, while the second chapter (references of which are brought down by Jerome) was placed somewhere else in the book.

It is here to be noted that Epiphanius could not explain the discrepancy he found between his copy of the Greek Evangelion and the Aramaic Gospel used by the Jewish following of Jesus, other than to say that the gospel used by the Jews is "not complete but falsified and distorted" (Anacephalaiosis 13.1-2). But was it really falsified and distorted?

Anyone examining with a critical demeanor those excerpts and citations taken from the Aramaic gospel will find that they are more in keeping and in line with historical facts. For example: In Matt. 23: 34-35, the original Aramaic Gospel mentions Zechariah ben Yehoiada as the martyred victim, who was killed between the porch and the altar, and NOT Zechariah ben Berachiah as appears today in the Greek translation of that Gospel. This fact is also confirmed in our oral traditions and histories (II Chron. 24:20-21; Babylonian Talmud, Gittin 57b). It was not the prophet Zechariah ben Berachiah (Zecharia 1:1) who was killed in that place, although the Greek Evangelion would have you think so, but rather, Zechariah ben Yehoiada (II Chronicles 24:20-21).

It should be noted, furthermore, that the Gospel of the Ebionites and the Gospel, "According to the Hebrews," is actually one and the same book. Davidbena (talk) 03:01, 23 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidbena (talk • contribs) 09:24, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Whether the Current Greek New Testament Gospel of Matthew is a Translation, or was Composed in Greek
Emily, Shalom!

What proves without question that the current New Testament copy of Matthew is a translation of the original Aramaic text is that it makes certain blunders or errors in translating from the Aramaic, a thing that is recognized by anyone who speaks Aramaic. For example: The current Greek N.T. (Evangelion) on '''Matt. 15:22' goes so far as to call one of the twelve, Simon the Canaanite, when, in actuality, he was only Simon the Zealot, or else Simon the silversmith'', seeing that there were no Canaanites to speak of living in Israel at that time. Neither would Jesus have taken a gentile as one of the twelve to be a testimony to Israel. This error can be attributed to the fact that in the NT Greek (Matt. ibid.), the copyist mistakenly wrote Simon's epithet as Xananaia, a word understood to mean Canaanite (the Greek letter "x," or "chi," being equivalent to the Hebrew character "kaf" as used in כנעני = Canaanite, and which word sounds phonetically like קנאי = Zealot).

In Matthew 10:4, however, as well as in Mark 3:18, Simon is described as Kananaion, this time, the Greek "k" being used for his name instead of the "x." Why the difference in spelling? It is because "k" in Greek is normally used to transliterate the Hebrew character "qof," as in קנאי (zealot), but since the word for “Canaanite” is phonetically similar in sound to “Zealot,” the copyist assumed that it referred to his nationality. However, the misspelled word in Matthew 15:22, i.e. Xananaia, was never really intended to mean "Canaanite," but "Zealot," which, indeed, happens to be his epithet in the original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew quoted by one of the Church Fathers in Greek when referring to Simon in a non-related episode found in the original Aramaic text! There, the Church Father reaffirms what was in the original Aramaic text by writing “Simon the Zealot!”

There are other errors in translation besides this one example which I shall be glad to point out to you if you are interested in seeing them. Davidbena (talk) 03:00, 23 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidbena (talk • contribs) 10:27, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Jesus and Jewish Exegeses
Emily, Shalom.

What I recently posted on the "Gospel of Matthew" is my own writing, which has never yet been published. It is based on many years of research. I can cite other examples, if you wish, from the Babylonian Talmud and Midrashic literature where the same biblical exegeses used by Jesus were used by Israel's Sages. This will be a great service to those interested in understanding Jesus' words in Matthew.

I find it hard to understand your rejection of things so basic to a good understanding of the Gospel of Matthew. The current overview has many flaws and errors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidbena (talk • contribs) 01:06, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

QUESTION
If I repost what was written about "Jewish Exegeses in the Teachings of Jesus" and show by footnotes the reliable published sources where the same lessons are used in the Babylonian Talmud to teach the same teachings, would that be acceptable? Davidbena (talk) 03:00, 23 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidbena (talk • contribs) 01:25, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Proof-Texts which show a proto-Matthew (in Aramaic/Hebrew), unlike the Greek Evangelion
Emily,

Jerome wrote in his De Viris inlustribus (III, ed. C. A. Bernoulli):

"…It is to be noted that where the evangelist (Matthew) whether on his own account or in the person of our Lord and saviour quotes the testimonies of the old Scriptures, he does not follow the authority of the translators of the Septuagint but the Hebrew. Wherefore these two [quotations] exist: 'Out of Egypt have I called my son' and 'For he shall be called a Nazarene'."

According to Jerome, the substance of the Hebrew Bible quoted by Matthew (in his Aramaic Gospel) was different from the Septuagint.

A.	Let us look, for example, at the proof-text of Isaiah 7:14 quoted in Matthew 1:23, and compare the same with Jerome's statement.

1)	In Isaiah  7:14,  the  Septuagint  writes:  parthenos  (virgin)  for  the  woman described in that verse. The Masoretic Text, on the other hand, uses the Hebrew word העלמה, which word has the unequivocal meaning of "young woman." (Yonathan b. Uzziel, a disciple of Hillel the elder and one who made an Aramaic translation of the prophets before Christianity, also gives the Aramaic equivalent of עולמתא, or "young woman," for the same Hebrew word used in that verse).

2)	Isaiah 7:14 is a verse quoted by Matthew (ibid.). Jerome, looking for harmony with the Septuagint (Isaiah) found not the word "virgin" in Matthew's original Gospel, but the word "young woman," just as it was written in the Hebrew scriptures. However, when Matthew's Aramaic Gospel was later translated into the Greek language, the Greek translator of Matthew's Gospel restored the word parthenos (virgin) that had been used in the Septuagint.

B.	Now, let us look at the proof-text of Hosea 11:1 quoted in Matthew 2:15 and compare the same with Jerome's statement.

1)	In Hosea 11:1, the Septuagint writes: kai ex Aigyptou metekalesa ta tekna aytou ("…and from out of Egypt I called back his children"). The Masoretic Text, on the other hand, has written there instead: וממצרים קראתי לבני = (And from Egypt I have called my son).

2)	Hosea 11:1 is a verse quoted by Matthew (ibid.). Jerome, looking for harmony with the Septuagint (Hosea) found not the word "children" in Matthew's original Gospel, but the word "son," just as it was written in the Hebrew scriptures. For the Hebrew words used by Matthew were: וממצרים קראתי לבני However, when Matthew's original Aramaic Gospel was later translated into the Greek language, the Greek translator of Matthew's Gospel gave an accurate rendering of the Hebrew verse according to the MT, writing huion mou for "my son." Notwithstanding, the Septuagint remained different from Matthew's original Hebrew text, a thing noted by Jerome.

C.	Now let us look at the proof-text of Jeremiah 31:6 quoted in Matthew 2:23 and compare the same with Jerome's statement.

1)	In Jeremiah 31:6, the Septuagint writes: For it is the day of calling of ones pleading –  Gr.  …kleseos  apologoymenon. The Masoretic Text, on the other hand, has written there instead: כי יש יום קראו נצרים בהר אפרים = (For there shall be a day that the watchmen – notzrim – shall call upon the mount Ephraim.) The Hebrew in the MT has written here the word notzrim, which can be explained as "watchmen" or which can also be applied to "those surviving." By way of an exegesis on the word, it can also be used in the sense of "the inhabitants of Nazareth." Meaning, there would come a day in mount Ephraim that men would be called notzrim, the word now applied to Christians, being as it were a derivative taken from Jesus of Nazareth.

2)	Jeremiah 31:6 is a verse quoted by Matthew (ibid.). Jerome, looking for harmony with the Septuagint (Jeremiah) found not the word "of ones pleading" in Matthew's original Gospel, but the words, "He shall be called a Nazarene," just as the verse was expounded from the Hebrew verse according to the MT. When Matthew's Aramaic Gospel was later translated into the Greek language, the Greek translator of Matthew's Gospel remained faithful to the exegesis, copying the verse as he had seen it explained in Matthew's Aramaic Gospel, writing Nazoraios (Nazarene) for what he saw there as notzrim. Even so, it is only an exegesis on the Hebrew verse, or at best a loose translation. (It should be noted here that Targum Yonathan b. Uzziel proves that the verse in the MT had not changed, translating: "For there are length of days and abundance of good that shall come upon the righteous who keep – notzrim – the Law of old.")

D.	Now, let us look at the proof-text of Isaiah 42:4 quoted in Matthew 12:21 and compare the same with Jerome's statement.

1)	In Isaiah 42:4, the Septuagint writes: kai epi to onomati ethne elpiousin = (And upon his name nations shall hope). The Masoretic Text, on the other hand, has written there instead: ולתורתו איים ייחלו = ("… and the isles shall hope for his Law”). While the Septuagint writes "hope in his NAME," the Hebrew version of the MT has written there "hope in his LAW."

2)	Isaiah 42:4 is a verse quoted by Matthew (ibid.). Jerome, looking for harmony with the Septuagint (Isaiah) found not the word "name" (Gr. onomati) in Matthew's original Gospel, but rather the word "Law" (Heb. הרות). When Matthew's Aramaic Gospel was later translated into the Greek language, the Greek translator of Matthew's Gospel restored the word onomati (name) that had been used in the Septuagint. Jerome's testimony, however, still stands, viz., that Matthew used a Hebrew text which differed from the Septuagint.

Jerome's testimony proves without question that the Masoretic Text (MT) has remained unchanged throughout the years, and was the same version used by Matthew and Jesus' following. Davidbena (talk) 02:58, 23 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidbena (talk • contribs) 02:51, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Another Translation Error in the Greek Text of Matthew
Emily,

Matthew’s Gospel, based on the Greek text, writes (Matt. 7:6): “Give not that which is holy to the dogs,” when in the original Aramaic it was written instead: “Give not a ring unto a dog,” similar to Prov. 11:22: “Like a gold ring (קדשא) in a swine’s snout, etc.” This error is attributed to the fact that the word “ring” =קדשא is similar in spelling to the word “holy” = קודשא, and the copyist (translator) was unable to differentiate between these two words. The continuation of the same verse also speaks about not casting one’s pearls before swine, just as the preceding lines speak of a precious ring before dogs. So is it explained in the book, Otzar Meforashim, published in Hebrew. Davidbena (talk) 04:01, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Re.: Proposed deletion of B.C. Rich Mockingbird
The article B.C. Rich Mockingbird might need some cleanup, but I fail to see how it is poorly sourced. The article would benefit a whole lot more if some effort was invested in cleaning it up instead of wasting time and effort with deletion proposals. -- Mecanismo | Talk 09:24, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Another note related to this PROD -- I fail to see how I was a "significant contributor" (The article's creator or other significant contributors should ideally be left a message at their talk page(s)) and warranted notification when this was my only edit to the article...  Theopolisme ( talk )  11:12, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * When I said "poorly sourced", I was referring to the fact that two out of the sources seemed to be a primary source.
 * And I would rather be accused of informing too many people of the deletion nomination, than accused of informing too few. --I dream of horses (T) @ 19:22, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

reply
Thanks!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruppia2000 (talk • contribs) 22:01, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! Enjoy the barnstar! --I dream of horses (T) @ 22:35, 25 August 2013 (UTC)7j

Cyprina ligeriensis
Hello, Thanks for your review. I add a reference. Cordially. Christian COGNEAUX (talk) 22:19, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! --I dream of horses (T) @ 22:37, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Christian COGNEAUX (talk) 22:41, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Talking nonsense
You just tagged something 'nonsense'. I've changed that to 'hoax' as nonsense doesn't apply. OK, it's probably rubbish, but CSD nonsense is incoherent stuff like "bake fourteen upwards hybrid mangosteen viridian vermicelli" or "niututyryre ghghhseedt". This might be someone's unpublished book, a game world that no-one's heard of or so on. Without evidence for its existence, and there's nothing on Google, hoax is the best bet. Peridon (talk) 22:42, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the advice. --I dream of horses (T) @ 22:43, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Polygamy in fiction
Hello, I actually agree this deserves speedy deletion. It was a section on the main polygamy page, and it made no sense to include fictional examples on an anthropology/sociology/history/religion page. Rather than blank the section I thought it might be best to give it a life of its own.Schrauwers (talk) 22:58, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I just nominated for speedy deletion, and linked to here. --I dream of horses (T) @ 23:12, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Rafah massacre
Hey, thanks for your concerns regarding the article. I just thought I'd drop by and let you know I'd removed the Orphan tag, considering the fact that the article is not an orphan, in fact, the articles Rafah, List of massacres in the Palestinian territories and Khan Yunis killings linked it before you added the needs improvement tag. Of course, the one source issue is correct, as information regarding the subject was very difficult to come across, save for the one book in question, although the book makes up for slightly less than half of the inline citations. I can't help but wonder if that somehow would affect that issue too, although I'm sure it doesn't. Any advice on the references issue of the article? Thanks, 1Matt20 23:10, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * What I would do in your situation is to not remove the tag until you gather as many sources as you can, which, at times, can take months. Try to find reputable magazines and newspapers. The source doesn't need to be in English. --I dream of horses (T) @ 23:16, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Will do. Thanks again! 1Matt20 23:21, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Untitled
Hi there! I have un-orphaned "The Order of the Eagle of Georgia and the Seamless Tunic of Our Lord Jesus Christ" and cleaned it up. Which source do you feel is unreliable? I'm happy to add more, but I don't think that the official site of the Royal House of Georgia is problematic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RomanetNYC (talk • contribs) 23:29, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, that source is a problem, since it's connected to the Royal House itself. You have to realize many organizations have official websites. There's also two sources that cite Wikipedia articles--Wikipedia doesn't consider itself to be a reliable enough source to use in in-line citations. The sources are all bare URLs, as well.
 * This page explains what kind of sourcing one needs in an article, and this page explains how to use in-line citations. I dream of horses (T) @ 01:58, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 21 August 2013

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Please comment on Talk:Roger Waters
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Untitled
Thanks for the welcome message. I've also been here for quite a while, but just registered not long ago. I'll keep in mind your suggestions. Cheers.

Tomgc (talk) 00:33, 29 August 2013 (UTC)