User talk:Ice Explorer/Sandbox2

familysearch.org
Looked him up in LDS (Mormon) files. They have nothing from church records, unfortunately, just submissions from LDS members. Such entries are usually worth ignoring and this one is funnier than most. They have this marriage:

Husband NIKOLAI JOHAN LOHMAN KROG, Birth: 06 JUL 1787, , Norway, Marriage: About 1830  , , Norway, Death: 15 OCT 1856 Wife ELSE MARIE ARBIEN, Birth: 27 SEP 1741 , , Norway, Marriage: About 1830  , , Norway, Death:  12 FEB 1832

So she was married at age 90 or so. At least she had the decency to die just 2 years into the marriage. Another member submission has her parents as ERIK NIKOLAI ARBIEN and ELSE MARIE ARCTANDER, for what that's worth.

Your "Andrew" is verifiable from LDS' church-book extracts: Andreas Christian , Christening: 12 May 1748  Place: Meldal, Sor-Trondelag, Norway (which means Sør-Trøndelag; LDS doesn't do "foreign" letters)

Father: Andreas Christian KROG -- Mother: Maren LOMAN So "Andrew's" name could be written Andreas Christian Krog, Jr.

Found no birth 1753-1757 in Norway or Denmark for Else Arctander / Rogstad / Poppe. There are various member submissions for 2 Else Arbiens (one Else Marie and one Else Sofie Dorothea) in the right time period with various parents & spouses.

A-HA!! Found Nicolaj, 1787, extracted from church-book:

NICOLAJ LOUMAN ANDERSEN, Christening: 05 AUG 1787, Drangedal, Telemark, Norway. Father: ANDREAS CHRISTIAN KROG  - Hordaland (talk) 11:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * OK then there is something to it after all. So the last name is Andersen because his father was Andreas. No mention that his father was in fact a Pastor then. Anyhoo, I guess it should be worthwhile to send an email to the priest in Drangedal to see if he can confirm and mybe if we're lucky get a photo of the original. He's there on Tuesday as well. Should we call ? Just thinking because the email address is from 2005 and for someone else in another Parish, a volunteer no doubt as well. Your thoughts ? Number is 3599 7173. Wonder what that is from Canada. We're not sending the priest on a wild goose chase for nothing then. The fact that Krog was First Minister of Norway should help too don't you think ? (Ice Explorer (talk) 15:34, 16 November 2009 (UTC))
 * The LDS records are extracted and transcribed. The actual handwritten page should have father's occupation, mother's name, names of witnesses - often many of them.  Those old church books are in archives somewhere, not still in the parish.  Some are probably online somewhere.  Maybe the present church office would know more... Hordaland (talk) 17:34, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

More from familysearch.org
Marriage, extracted from church records:

Nicolai Johan Lohman KROG, Age At Marriage: 39. Spouse: Elisabeth Marie SCHIOTT ARBEN, Age At Marriage: 42. Marriage: 27 Sep 1826 Place: Aker, Garnison; Den Norske Kirke, Oslo, Akershus, Norway. (Garnison Menighet = Garnison congregation)

Notes: Husband previously married. Additional data in original record. - Hordaland (talk) 22:03, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

1782 census, Drangedal, Telemark
This particular bit from the census is found online at digitalarkivet, transcribed by a volunteer. Rectory or whatever is the right word:

Main parish: Drangedal Sub-parish: Solberg-Roden Main farm: 'Heritzøe' or 'Præstegaarden' (direct translation: the priest's farm) Sub-farm (one of several): 'Heritzøe' or 'Præstegaarden'

FIRST NAME(S) - (LAST NAME) - AGE -

Andreas Christian Krog  33  Sogne-Præsten (PARISH MINISTER) Frideriche Christiane  23 1/2  His wife. Died: 18. April 1782 Maren Cathrine  7  Dau Johan Braem  4  Son Andreas Christian  3  Son  ** Christiana Hedevig Rotbøll  1/2  Dau Fridericha Christiana   Daughter. Dead

Samuel Kierskow  37  Servant Olava Rynning  27  Servant Groe Knudsdatter  33  Servant. Widow Marta Haraldsdatter  24  Servant Maria Haraldsdatter  18  Servant Anniken Knudsdatter  20  Servant Martha Ellingsdatter  20  Servant Lars Tellevssøn  27  Servant Gunder Torjusøn  21  Servant. Not confirmed. Niels Hansøn  13  Servant Gunild Giermundsdatter  58  poorhouse Tellev Larsøn  60  poorhouse
 * **This Andreas Christian Krog, b. abt. 1779 probably died shortly before the son by the same name was born in 1787. Which would be by another mother?

Hordaland (talk) 16:39, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Mmmm, "destitute" probably better than "poorhouse". There weren't poorhouses.  The very poor (including orphans) were sent 'round the neighborhood, spreading the burden. Hordaland (talk) 19:50, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

1801 census
Christians amt, now Oppland fylke, previously partly under Akershus. Main parish: Gran (number 0534) Subparish: Gran "Address": Skio Else Mari Rogstad,  Prost krog's widow  45  Widow after her 2nd marriage Christiana Krog,  Her unmarried daughter  20 Frederica Krog,   "   19  Thorine  Krogh,   "   17 Nicolay Krog,  Her son  14   <== (Thus b. abt. 1787) Joen Larsen  25  Unmarried servant (male) Anders Johansen  17  Unmarried servant (male) Groe Knudsdtr  56  Servant, widow after her 1st marriage Marthe Andersdtr  40  Servant, widow after her 1st marriage Inger Albertsdtr  19  Unmarried servant (female)

Prost = pastor in charge of several parishes. Now how did that one Krogh get in there? Transcriber not careful? Hordaland (talk) 17:15, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

This is confusing and maybe just a coincidence. 1801 census has a pastor's daughter 17 years old. Trondheim. Øreland main parish (number 1621), Øreland subparish, Viklem Præstegaarden. Mathias Bonsak Krogh, Sognepræst [pastor], 47 in his 1st marriage Nicoline Antonette Møldrup,  His wife,  42  in her 1st marriage and their three daughters: Elisabeth Maria Krogh  17 Hanna Hendricha Rømeling Krogh  11 Laurense Sophie Krogh  4 (leaving off all the servants) Could she have been a Krogh all along?

No, no! Here she is! She's only 16 here. (You get this stuff stream-of-consciousness, as I find it...)

City of Christiania, Christiania main parish (number 0301) and subparish, Østre Qvarteer (=Eastern Quarter). Street address: Tolbod Gaden 3 Else Soph. Juel, Head of household, 78, widowed 1st time, Widow after "afg. justits rd. og obr hofrets assessor juel", " 'frue sal. juel' "  (lawyer? assessor. sounds very important) Peter Arbin, Her son-in-law,  62, married for 1st time,  Bye og raadstue skriver  (city hall secretary or something like that) Giertrud Juel, His wife,  54, married for 1st time Erich Nic. Arbin, Unmarried son, 17, school boy Sophia Dorthea Arbin, Unmarried daughter, 18 Elisabeth Maria Arbin, Unmarried daughter, 16 (leaving off a lodger and lots of servants) Hordaland (talk) 23:14, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

The illustration
English Wikipedia has people who can do wonders improving old photographs. User:Durova can probably do it or recommend someone. - Hordaland (talk) 20:07, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * What a strange face! Cover up the top half of his face, down to the cheekbones, and he looks like a woman.  Yes, this illustration is much better than the "old" one (though not necessarily if the other had been photo-shopped to the same degree).  - Hordaland (talk) 13:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

He looks very serious and First Minister like. (Ice Explorer (talk) 15:40, 17 November 2009 (UTC))