User talk:Idoonie

January 2022
Hello, Idoonie. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on the page June Preston, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:


 * avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization or competitors;
 * propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the request edit template);
 * disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Conflict of interest);
 * avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see Spam);
 * do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 02:47, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

There is no conflict of interest on my part. Someone changed the birth date and place of birth on my mom’s van page, June Preston’s wiki page and it is incorrect! She was born December 29, 1928 and someone changed it to “1930/1931” which is WRONG and also added that she was born in Wisconsin when she was born in Glendale, CA. She has never even been in Wisconsin! Please change back her birthdate and place of birth to what it should be. Thank you Idoonie (talk) 06:51, 3 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Please read the guideline. You have a conflict of interest. "Conflict of interest (COI) editing involves contributing to Wikipedia about yourself, family, friends, clients, employers, or your financial and other relationships." If you think the birth date is wrong, change it and provide a reliable source. Check this page for help. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 06:57, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, such as at Talk:June Preston, (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either: This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.
 * 1) Add four tildes  ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment, or
 * 2) With the cursor positioned at the end of your comment, click on the signature button OOjs UI icon signature-ltr.svg located above the edit window.

Thank you. rsjaffe 🗩 🖉 02:23, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Conflict of interest
Please do not edit this article, as you seem to have a conflict of interest. Read about it here. Suggest changes, if necessary, on the talk page using edit requests. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 02:53, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Notice of noticeboard discussion
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 06:11, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Idoonie, that discussion has been moved. Please click on this link, Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard, and feel free to participate. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 02:29, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

June Preston article improvement
Hi, How are you? I saw the article on June Preston on the conflict of interest noticeboard and I thought I'd give you a hand to try and improve it.  scope_creep Talk  03:17, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

yes please help me, i dont know what i did and now her whole page is 90% void of her all her information. I am just not tech savvy and feel i did something wrong even though all information on her page were backed up by either photos or news articles to prove the information was true. I also need help on how to delete accounts, i was told i have 3 accounts (i didnt mean to create 3 accounts just one). It's all so confusing.

As of now her b-day and birth place are wrong on her page I dont know where that came from but it's wrong.

And sadly i dont understand the tech info i get to fix something like a citation (all the info is true). i just wanted to keep my mom's name and legacy alive on wiki and now it's just turned into a mess. All my hard work of wording and putting in all together her life's info is gone. :( I dont even know what i did so wrong to have them take all the information away... She was a huge star in her day and is now 93, i just wanted her not to be forgotten.

Thanks Sabrina

pinging – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 13:46, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks
 * Hi Sabrina. That is understandable. The first thing you do, is sign your comments with four tildes ~, every time you make one. The software convert them into a signature that included your user name and the date of the edit, at the end of the sentence. That is important so that folk can see who is talking. Without it, is nigh impossible to tell. Regarding the article, I think the first thing we do, is get a photograph of June Preston to the article. Have a got a photograph you could upload? The article on Shirley Temple has a photograph of her aged mid 20's and then it has several more when she was in the films. Do you have one, of that age we could use? Ideally in colour. I can upload it for you.    scope_creep Talk  14:18, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi Just want to let you know, I'm in the process of adding more "Sourced" information on Pinterest on June Preston films and June Preston Opera (It's a ton of publicity, so it's taking me a bit of time to sift through looking for sourced material for you... but please keep checking her Pinterest boards when you have time for updates). I'm adding sourced info. etc. on a daily basis. Thanks :) 172.116.187.37 (talk) 06:33, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Multiple accounts
Hello. It appears that over a period of years, you may have created multiple Wikipedia accounts for the purpose of editing the article June Preston. Two other accounts named and  have at various points in the past claimed to be the subject's daughter, as you have done.

Please be aware that operating multiple accounts is referred to as "sockpuppetry", and is against Wikipedia policy. Since the other accounts have been inactive for many years, please simply refrain from using them again. And, please do not create additional accounts in the future. Thank you. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 06:24, 4 January 2022 (UTC)


 * pinging – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 01:45, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * oops – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 01:45, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm so sorry... Please help me, I had no idea i had 3 accounts, I just need one and have no idea how to delete the other two. The two other accounts named is my last name and I would gladly delete it and the other account  is one of my email addresses and that too can be deleted. Can you help me delete them or guide me?

I feel like i did something wrong but I had no intention to or how it happened and I am sorry. I am June Preston's daughter I can prove it, I can also email you a copy of her birth certificate (the current birthday and birth place is wrong on her page now, someone changed it) and any information you need to verify who I am. Mom is 93 now and I was only trying to keep her Legacy alive by having a wiki page for her, she was a huge star in her day and I just wanted to do this for her (i have tons of her publicity etc).

Can you tell me how I may delete the other two accounts? and just keep this one I have been using? Thanks, Sabrina
 * You can't delete accounts. I'd suggest just simply abandoning those accounts. Additionally, please sign your comments by adding ~ to the end of them. And if you are her daughter, I'd strongly suggest you don't edit the article. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 01:51, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you AssumeGood Wraith, please forgive my ignoarance adding ~ I wasn't aware. I had no idea I made multiple accounts, I'm sorry I just didn't know. So I guess my questions is how can i get the page to look the way it did before if I am not able to fix it? All the information is gone and the birthday and place are incorrect. I'm sorry to be a pain but this is really sad, i am just trying to keep her legacy alive on the web. The reason the June Preston page was there to begin with is for people to know who she was and what an asset she was in her lifetime in the golden age of films and opera. If i can't fix it, there will be no information for people to read and what is there now is incorrect. Can you revert it to the way it was and I will contact you directly if ever there needs to be a change. I had no idea that i was not suppose to make changes to her page... i'm sorry, i just wanted to do something special for my mom that is all. What do i do now that the page is no longer the way it looked with all missing information about her careers? thanks you for your help i really appreciate it, Sabrina ~
 * Wikipedia is not the place for that. Also, please don't add the nowiki tags surrounding the signature. Those were added so it wouldn't produce my signature. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 03:05, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

June Preston article
Sabrina, I will be trying to find as much information as I can about your mother, so I can add to her article. I have a subscription to newspapers.com, so I put in her name, started searching, and discovered lots of ads for June Preston frocks for girls, "styled for the little star herself". One 1935 ad states "June Preston R.K.O. - Radio Film Star." "With each dress you get a photograph of little June herself, dressed in one of these little frocks." Please tell your mother that I think its a really big deal that she was popular enough to have a line of dresses named after her! I can add a new little section about the line of dresses she was connected with.

Unfortunately Wikipedia is fussy about not wanting to use a birth certificate for a date of birth source, so we'll need to find another way to get that information in the article. Does your mother have a scrapbook of press releases, or fan magazine articles, about her movie career, that has her correct birth date, or at least the year of her birth? (Ones that tell where the articles came from, and the publication date, so they can be referenced.) Such sources are often inaccurate, but if there's one that is accurate, I'll add the information to her Wikipedia article. Are there any "hometown girl makes good" articles that you have access to? Those would at least give us her birth place. Was there any 90th birthday party / celebration that resulted in a newspaper article that told about her birth?

Do you know of any movie or music reference books that tell about your mother? Those can be sourced. You can send me the source information – for a book I'll need author, book name, page number(s), publisher, publishing date. For an article – title, newspaper or magazine name, publishing date, page number. Then you can type out the relevant information, such June Preston was in a certain film (or in an opera) and got good reviews, or personal information such as when she was born, schools attended, when she married, names of her children, etc. Now, I have read that most publicity photos were not copyrighted, so that they could be published in lots of newspapers and magazines. If you have a publicity photo of your mother that you could send me (a digital camera or cell phone can take a photo of a photo) I'll try to get in uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, and then it can be added to her article. I'll need to know as much as I can about it, the approximate date taken, who may have been responsible for taking (such as RKO - Radio studios) and I'll do what I can, by writing it was for publicity, and believed to be copyright free. I will send you an email, using one of the email addresses found on the edit history of the article, and will put June Preston in the subject line. That way you will know where to send me any referenced information you can provide.

Try not to fret about making mistakes. I had a small number of print article published before discovering Wikipedia existed and, even with a bit of writing experience I still find Wikipedia to be rather overwhelming at times. Karenthewriter (talk) 04:28, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Kkarenthewriter:Thank you soooo much for your help. Oh yes i have a trunk load of both her careers (film/opera) publicity, her actual dresses, toys, magazine, all the newspapers ads with her dresses side by side with Shirley Temple. I have two different Pinterest sites for Mom (Film/Opera) check them out FILM: https://www.pinterest.com/sabmeows/june-preston-famous-film-child-star/  OPERA:https://www.pinterest.com/sabmeows/june-preston-opera-singer/. I have so much stuff LOL. I also have catalogues that the dress buyers would receive with all her dresses available for purchase from toddler to teen (stuff like that) The publicity photos by the boxes are stamped by the studio on the back and on the front say June Preston RKO Film Star. I have tags which hung on all the dresses with those same photos just small versions that they used as tags and so much more...

II have a very difficult time with "wiki talk" and finding these chats, I'm grateful to have found this page and you to help. So an email address would be much more helpful to me than using this way. If you give me an email it would be so much easier for me to correspond and start sending material for you to look over. I just hope I find this article again when you provide me with the email address... Can you please let me know when you send me the email to link to you to send information: Thank you thank you thank you... SabrinaIdoonie (talk) 19:08, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Quick tip: You can email Wikipedians by going to Special:EmailUser. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 01:24, 7 January 2022 (UTC)


 * @Idoonie I hate to be putting my email all over Wikipedia, but I'm so afraid that you are not receiving any of my messages. So here goes another try: email me at karenthewriter@yahoo.com. Karenthewriter (talk) 02:14, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Permission to edit articles
Hello. In an edit summary you wrote, "People should not be allowed to just change her page without our permission". Just to be sure, I write to let you know that this idea is mistaken. See Ownership of content, which states explicitly, "No one has the right to act as though they are the owner of a particular article (or any part of it)." By editing an article, a user agrees to release theiir contribution under the CC BY-SA 3.0 License, which implies that they grant anyone the right to modify it. --Lambiam 10:38, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Teahouse
Hello. I have made a thread for your question on my talk page at the teahouse, where other editors have answered it. It is here: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse#Weird_request,_but... Click this link] – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 13:52, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Sabrina. I'm Asareel. You've received so much good advice on your user talk page here and at the Teahouse along with some admonishment for breaking policies and guidelines many, many people break on a daily basis. Don't get overwhelmed. I suggest reading over the advice multiple times and making sure you understand every aspect of what is being said. If you don't understand anything fully then I advise asking questions about it. I've noticed that almost everyone that has responded here or left a comment on the thread at the Teahouse has done so with compassion and kindness. I expected no less from these amazing editors. Take the admonishment to heart and understand where it is coming from. We, as a community, take great pride in the work we all do collectively. I'm writing because I don't want you to get the wrong impression. It is not against policy for you to edit any article related to your mother, however, it is strongly recommended that you not. If there were an article on my Papa here I would have a hard time being objective and neutral. I would think I was being neutral but in reality my love for him would inevitably leak through and it would not be truly objective. I think it is so admirable that you want to honor your mother and it speaks to the love you have for her. Wikipedia defines that as a conflict of interest. I call it love but your love for her leads to a desire to want to honor her and there is nothing wrong with that except that Wikipedia must maintain a completely neutral point of view and so the encyclopedia is only concerned about what independent sources say about your mother. That is the point being made. Again, read over the advice given. Ask questions. Take the admonishment to heart and understand it. Use the article talk page to discuss any potential edits so independent editors can evaluate and assess the information. Above all else, continue loving your mother and remember that all of the material things, including a Wikipedia article, aren't her true legacy, you are. -- A Rose  Wolf  14:45, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi Asreel, Thank you so much for your kind words, all this is very overwhelming but I was thrilled to be able to get some help through all you lovely people. I have a huge trunk of both my mom's careers - publicity, magazine, photos, newspaper articles you name it...I have it. And I will be sharing them with a kind soul that will help me at wiki to get my Mom's page back the way it was. I am so grateful for the help with this, it has taken me some time figuring out "talk" chat and I still am not well versed at it but I'm trying. I hope this message gets to you. Sabrina Idoonie (talk) 19:18, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Sabrina, some very amazing editors are working your mothers article and I have taken joy in watching it develop. It may not be completely what you wanted but I think it will be out of danger of being deleted and can be improved and expanded as reliable sources surface. You can find discussion concerning the progress of the article here (Talk:June Preston). If you have any further suggestions on how to improve the article then you can also leave that on the article's talk page. Make sure you provide reliable sources that can be reviewed by every involved editor. This will expedite the process. Unfortunately anything in the huge trunk that doesn't provide some kind of context or a link back to a newspaper or other reliable source can not be included. But, the article is improved from where it was yesterday and Wikipedia is sometimes a slow process but that is because, as I stated, we take a lot of pride in the work we are doing here so taking a little more time to ensure we get accurate information in the article helps us achieve the goal of creating a better encyclopedia. Sometimes the love we have for our parents skews our view of them and can make them seem larger than life and the best at everything. I swear my Papa was the best pizza maker on Earth. In reality he learned from my Mama (lol). Nothing can take away your love for your mother or diminish the honor you display for her daily. A Wikipedia article didn't make your mother who she was or is. It can not add to or take away from her legacy, anymore than it does the countless millions who will never have an article here. This is just an encyclopedia and it has its own rules for inclusion. Asareel -- A Rose Wolf  20:54, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you both for being so kind. I stopped looking at the Wiki Project Women in red for a couple days because I became so very hurt by some of the things people (editors) where saying without even asking me for the proof of what they are saying is false. I offered several times for those people who didn't believe for example, my mom toured with the Metropolitan Opera singing lead opposite their biggest star of that time Tenor Jan Peerce, I have full page newspapers with their photos on them stating Metropolitan Opera tour, brochures, posters, photos of she and Jan Peerce on stage performing... It's just sad that just because it wasn't digitized when digitizing became a thing that it doesn't make it true. Yet no one emailed me even out of curiosity to see the proof/reliable source. It's sad. Anyway thanks for your kinds words. Take care :) Sabrina Idoonie (talk) 06:49, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Update: Hi, I'm just letting you know I began putting more "Sourced" articles, etc. including a Walter Winchell article about her on Pinterest (Opera Career spanning from 1951-1960's). It is a lot, I am trying to translate them for people too so it takes a while, and I am pleased to tell you that the "sourced articles" from 1950-1960's all corroborates everything I have said about June Preston from the beginning, which sadly some refuse to believe (but the "sourced" articles will prove it). Please check the Pinterest board from time to time to see the Updates. I am adding on a daily basis on both careers. Thanks for your help Sabrina Idoonie (talk) 06:49, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

June Preston (your mother)
Hello, Sabrina (I feel it is OK to call you that now that you've used it elsewhere). Pinterest cannot be directly used as a source, the sheer amount of press clippings is impressive and do not look doctored. That said, without specific notation, it is hard to establish notability. For contrast, I am an absolute nobody, but I have managed to be named in newspapers twice and once with a photograph and my mom put it in a scrapbook. A find sources search yields very little. A contract with RKO does sound notable, but didn't studios sign hundreds of people back then? I feel very sympathetic towards your cause but verifiability is a cornerstone of Wikipedia. I see you are now engaged in discussions on several pages, so all of this might be overwhelming. Nevertheless, I want to ask about the press clippings. Do you know where they come from? Are any of them from a newspaper of record? Can they be verified on microfilm in any libraries? (PS this is a partial restatement from another page) Cheers, --SVTCobra 02:23, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

I have so many clippings. Yes it is overwhelming, I wish I could just write you all at once. I have many clippings, Mom use to have publicity agencies in several states and they would clip daily publicity on her and attach them with a stamped paper saying the publication, date etc. I have that... I have a full page with pub./date re: she being in "Christmas In July movieI" 1941 too. I feel like a lot was not just not digitized because several people on wiki look for her on their searches and come up with nothing and assume she isnt anyone, there are tons of JP apparel ads out there which was advertised from 1934-1948, but short on articles (that i know of). I actually wrote the Texas Harold yesterday to enquire if they have archives from back then to get a few articles on her that stated other movies she was "featured in" which it says on the article along with the names of the movies and where they will be showing the movie. I am awaiting their response. So yes I have plenty not all full pages of the newspaper. If you email me I can send you some (i have already sent some to someone else) I dont know how else to put information on this but to receive an email form your end. I wish I could just put everything in one place and everyone can pick and chose what they like. Thanks so much for being kind, Sabrina

Working on the articles you supplied
Hi, Sabrina! I've put together a list of usable clippings from the articles you supplied here, but I need some extra info on them. For a lot of them, it's unclear what publication they're from (whether newspaper or book) and what the date is they were published. That's going to be critical info to use in a reference in the article. Also, for some of them, such as this, the text isn't very legible. Would you be able to have a clearer photo or scan of them made? I'm going to go ahead with the references we do have all the info for from your clippings (and I see some others have already started adding them to the article), but I hope to hear back from you on the rest so we can use those as well! Silver seren C 18:21, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I would really love a full date for this clipping, since it has a lot of great biographical material. Silver  seren C 22:15, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi Thanks so much for your help... I appreciate it very much... I have that article and many more like that a including the full page newspapers (with name of publication and dates) with articles about my Mom touring with The Metropolitan Opera, inclined posters and opera brochures of the tour. And other opera tour newspapers articles, programs, posters of performances worldwide. from US to south america to europe. I have been thinking of making a Website including both of her careers so then I can put the huge amount of publicity and articles on it because from what I have begone to understand through Wiki is not all newspapers were digitized, which explains why I have so much and wiki editors cannot find anything. There are thousands of newspaper ads for her June Preston RKO frocks etc. but i guess not articles. So how can I send you what you need? Can you email me and I'll send you the photos of the articles? or should I take the photo and place it on Pinterest on her Opera board? Thanks Sabrina Idoonie (talk) 18:34, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Pinterest should work fine, since then everyone else can see the articles as well. If you could focus on adding the newspaper articles primarily and make sure the name of the publication and the date it was published are visible, that would work great. And more of the newspaper articles from her opera tour elsewhere in the world would be amazing. We've already added in the two articles on her performances in Spain and at the Hague. Thanks, Sabrina ! Silver  seren C 19:04, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Can you clarify how "Pinterest should work fine"? I do not suspect Sabrina of any malfeasance, for the record, but Pinterest notoriously hosts copyright violations. I think Wikipedia needs something more substantial for verifiability. If the copyrights have expired, perhaps they could be uploaded to Commons. I am not sure. Cheers, --SVTCobra 23:06, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * We literally don't even need an actual URL link to references so long as we have verified them. Pinterest is a fine location as any to host images of news articles that aren't in available archives. If any of them are indeed copyright-free, then we can upload them to Commons as well, sure. Silver  seren C 23:12, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi Everyone, I guess I was adding info. to WikiProject Women in Red page because some were talking with me on that, but now a person said to use "Talk", so here I am :)... I'm not sure if any of you have followed the Project Women in Red about my mom or not but you might want to check it out, I clarified some articles some editors/people put on her page that were incorrect including her being married to someone that was actually her Manager not her husband but is now on her wiki page... thinks like that. Errors happen in print all the time back then, but i just dont want misinformation on her page because then it becomes viral on the web and it's incorrect and gets confusing :) For those of you helping me again THANK YOU!!!!! For those waiting more info. it will come: I have posted a photo on Pinterest Pinterest to show you how extensive the material I am compiling for you is. 1950-1958 so far (different countries, shows, and years) not including the European tour yet. I will only add the clippings with the date & publication etc. including the opera programs that corresponds with each clipping which include venue/date/year. But also some pictures as well which you don't need to look at but others will enjoy.

Regardless what some say on here and other pages regarding my Mom and what their opinions are, June Preston was famous in her day and I guess it will be up to the editors/readers of her articles (sourced) that are coming and photos to determine that for themselves. Yes, she is my mom, but i am not trying to maker he into something she is not. The articles and photos show her star status on their own merit. I am sure there are plenty of famous people out there that just got lost or forgotten in the "digital world" like she did but it doesn't mean they were not stars in their day and yes I mean "Stars". Take care, im off do work on these articles for you. stay tuned and again thanks for your time. SabrinaIdoonie (talk) 23:34, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I'm just letting you know I have stated putting in more "Sourced" articles, Theater programs, and pics as back up to the articles on Pinterest (Opera Career spanning from 1951-1960's). It is a lot, I am trying to translate them for you too, and I am pleased to tell you that the "sourced articles" all corroborates everything I have said from the beginning, which some refuse to believe. Please check the Pinterest board from time to time to see the Updates. I am adding on a daily basis starting with 1950 onward. Thanks! 172.116.187.37 (talk) 06:26, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

A List of Knowledge
Hello there, Idoonie! There seems to be a lot of discussions about this topic; it practically seems like every corner of Wikipedia is talking about your mother at this point. I see a lot of users telling you to stick with the advice you've been given, but with the amount of stuff being thrown at you at the moment it may be tough to abide by them all! Fear not: a lot of users are actively trying to preserve your mother's legacy on this site, and hopefully, they won't be done until it's been given the best possible treatment. For now, I'll document everything you need to know and can do to help below. I also may ask some people to reach out to your email so they can retrieve these clippings you've been referring to.


 * Important to know
 * Conflict of Interest, or COI for short: Anyone directly related to what they are writing about means they have a conflict of interest. You are the daughter of June Preston, therefore whatever is at the article I linked here applies. In short, explain your problems with the article and what you want to be changed or expanded on the talk page. It is very highly recommended someone who has a conflict of interest does not edit the article directly.
 * Writing neutrally, or NPOV (Neutral Point Of View): Wikipedia needs to be free of bias and stay as informational as possible for the readers. Here is a link to one of your old additions to the article, which was ultimately removed. For example, this portion:


 * While you most certainly may be right and have the newspaper clippings to prove it, to another user this looks like an attempt to make the article sound praiseworthy of her which goes against Wikipedia rules of remaining genuine and accurate. This is why the additions were removed by AssumeGoodWraith and Theroadislong. Thankfully, they aren't doing this to destroy your mother's article; they did it because it lacked citation, which segways to the next guideline
 * While you most certainly may be right and have the newspaper clippings to prove it, to another user this looks like an attempt to make the article sound praiseworthy of her which goes against Wikipedia rules of remaining genuine and accurate. This is why the additions were removed by AssumeGoodWraith and Theroadislong. Thankfully, they aren't doing this to destroy your mother's article; they did it because it lacked citation, which segways to the next guideline


 * Reliable sources, Verifiability, and No original research, or RS, V, and NOR: Any and all text on an article must be backed up with a reference to prove it. The additions you added (the one I linked before) were removed because they weren't backed with references and were very bold claims and facts. This may sound like a lot, but boils down to these points:
 * A source must be reliable, meaning that it must come from a high-quality news organization or a heavily researched entry, free of bias.
 * To verify, ff no high-quality sources exist, we sadly cannot prove it to be true even if it is. Pinterest cannot be directly sourced, but the stuff on Pinterest can. You know how Wikipedia itself is an unreliable source, but the references used inside of it are? It's kinda like that. I've never encountered a situation like this before so I'll ask around for some answers.
 * An article (or its references) must be free from taking sides when stating facts about something, and this is especially true for articles about living people. When editing or expanding an article, it must stick true to what the source says. If it says they have a charismatic nature, then the statement can be included; if they only briefly mention what June Preston did in her role, it must be described that way. Make sure that it sticks true to what is known and the additions aren't puffed in a way that no longer sounds neutral.


 * Let me also tell you real quickly about pinging people. When you ping a username, they will get a notification and they'll check your comment out. f you are responding to someone, it's the best way to get their attention. Use this code at the beginning of a response:
 * For example, your username would be
 * And looks like this:
 * And looks like this:

I hope this message gives you a clear direction going forward, even if we users sound like a broken record at this point. Also, remember this; if a user is removing content, they aren't doing it with the intention of hurting your mother's legacy. We promise! Although we all act like tired old men we have a bit of soul in us somewhere. Wikipedia's goal is to give high-quality information and if a user removes information, it's because one of the issues above applied and they're making the article better quality. If you have any questions about all of this, please do respond to this message; I will be more than happy to clarify. Panini! 🥪 14:39, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Small correction, I don't think sources need to be neutral too. Adverts as sources may be discouraged for other reasons. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 15:09, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, opinions and sides are important for documenting areas such as reviews or issues with two opposing sides; I reclarified what I meant. Panini! 🥪 15:18, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

I would advise NOT commenting in the Articles for Deletion discussion
Hey, Idoonie, just wanted to pop in here. I would advise that you not comment in the deletion discussion going on, because it usually harms things and makes people more likely to vote Delete if an account with a conflict of interest posts in such discussions. Just let the discussion play out. If it does end in Delete, we can just get a Draft copy made in Draftspace and keep working on showcasing the notability of June Preston with better source coverage from the materials you have. Since there's a number of news articles that aren't even in the Preston article proper yet. So, again, please just stay away from the deletion discussion. That will give it the best chance of having an outcome of Keeping it. Silver seren C 19:29, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

I will thank you, I did not know the discussion was a deleted... I have added more sourced articles etc. on Pinterest about both her careers which I continue to ad on a daily basis - the Opera side is extensive as there are years worth of touring so I have to ad a little every day as I am also doing some translations. I hope this will help people in their work. Idoonie (talk) 18:50, 16 January 2022 (UTC)


 * A keep result it seems it is. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 10:26, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi this is Sabrina, June Preston's daughter: Is this the page I would put information and the corresponding link for sourced articles to be found for everyone to see who worked on her wiki page? I uploaded tons of Film and Opera "sourced" newspapers articles, review, etc. on both of her Pinterest Boards (Film and Opera) which also substantiate her status in the opera world and I just need to know where to correctly put this info. Thanks --Idoonie (talk) 01:35, 11 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I think you’re looking for the talk page of that article. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk &#124; contribs) 03:59, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for our reply: there are 2 options "add topic" or edit the original "January 2022" talk page where all the people working on her page are talking. Do i add to that page on the very bottom or start a new topic? sorry to bother you with this, i just dont want to put it in the wrong place. :) Idoonie (talk) 19:07, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

New topic – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk &#124; contribs) 22:48, 11 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you!!!!!!! Idoonie (talk) 18:45, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, Since you have been helpful to me before, I didnt know who else to write to. Can you please advise me as to how I can get my mom’s wiki page completely taken off/down your site? As her wiki page reads now it is beyond inaccurate and I do not want people to read this misinformation that is clearly belittling her career by some. I don't know what their problem is with her? Saying she was a “chorus girl in San Fransico opera” from 1952-1954 is false, she was not even in the USA in those years because she was on tours beginning 1950 through the early 1960’s abroad. June Preston was considered “the golden voice” by top opera critics, sponsored by CocaCola, McCann Erickson, Esso. and more, she was on programs like Telephone Hour, BBC radio and TV etc. all available to see on her Pinterest Board in Sections by year with reliable sourced newspaper I provided on for each tour each year. Including A BOOK stating she was of “World Fame” also available to see fully sourced book/pages/publication.  I specifically posted a “new section” #13 on this Talk page last week after working months adding all the new sourced/proof of info. Newspapers, reviews, interviews, even the Book substantiating her career with sourced articles available and no one even commented or fixed her page. So, if you please just let me know how to remove the entire page from wiki or let me know who I call to take it down.  I’d rather have nothing for her on wiki. I do appreciate what some found early on and put on her page that is correct but it is clear some just want to discredit her opera career regardless of the proof I have recently posted on her Pinterest board(s) for your info so you know I am not crazy, here is the Pinterest board link so you can see the proof of her status in the opera world. But I still want to remove her wiki page completely please let me know how.
 * Pinterest Opera Board LINK: June Preston Distinguished Opera Singer
 * Pinterest Child Star board LINK: June Preston Child Star of the 1930's & '40's
 * Thanks, just let me know how completely erase her wiki page... Sabrina--Idoonie (talk) 01:34, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Pinging @Silver seren, @SVTCobra and @ARoseWolf as they may be interested. You can additionally post to the teahouse for help. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk &#124; contribs) 03:36, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I see you Pinged a few people, I just wanted to know how to take her entire wiki page down BUT if they can remove all the misinformation on her current wiki page, that's fine, if not, I rather just get rid of her page altogether, let me know.
 * I don't want my Mom's legacy to be diminished to the point it has been on her current wiki page. She was considered a "Soprano of world fame" (written in the 1975 book and printed in credited newspapers) shown on her Pinterest Opera board, and the Seattle info is also all wrong, then they have her looking like a chorus girl for years in San Fran opera, when she wasn't even in this country at that time, she was touring over 13 countries and for the next decade.  And she was only married once to my father, Belgian concert violinist Saul Houben.  Just an FYI: She was born and raised in Glendale, CA and shortly moved to Texas before being discovered on the RKO lot for a 7 yr contract with a 3 film commitment to start with, but was not raised in Texas.  She began her north/central/south opera tours in 1950 not 1954, she was already highly established by 1950 deemed the "Golden Voice of the times"... She also didn't not perform "Singing acts" she performed Concert Recitals and the lead roles in Operas with an extensive classical repertoire, not a pop singer.  She sang the lead of Mimi in "La Boheme" opposite Jan Peerce as Rodolfo and also Walter Fredericks when Peerce was away.  She was asked to join La Scala in Milan in 1953/54 (newspapers have this printed), she was contracted as first soprano at Teatro Colon in Buenos Aires twice including a contract with their symphony orchestra as a soloist.  I put all this new info. (seen below) as #13 on this Talk page with links etc. to fix her wiki page but no one looked so... I just decided taking her page down was much better than people reading what is on there now and they will.
 * If anyone wants a template, go to IMDB and look for June Preston. Just take a read at the bio, it is the 'truth' and 'Correct' information by timeline (more than you need for wiki) but at least it's correct and can be used as a guide timeline of her career which helps when looking at per Pinterest Opera Board by year and seeing all the proof of what it says on IMDB.  Like I said, I'd rather take the wiki page down than have people read it as it is now. It's like some literally had an issue with her and belittled everything she did here, it's a real shame.  All the credited and sourced solid proof is now on her Pinterest Opera board and RKO film star board as well, I found more articles etc for that too.
 * Pinterest Opera Board LINK: June Preston Distinguished Opera Singer
 * Pinterest Child Star board LINK: June Preston Child Star of the 1930's & '40's
 * I haven't posted on teahouse because I just don't want to go through all that fighting back and forth with the non-believers. I'll see how this goes first with you and who you pinged. If you all think I should then post on Teahouse, then I will. Just let me know. Sabrina Idoonie (talk) 19:11, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I want to inform you all that my  Mom passed away May 11th . I just received the first Obit from the editor of The Hollywood Reporter who did an incredible job on her obituary for their publication.  Here is the link:  The Hollywood Reporter
 * Again, if we cannot fix her wiki page quickly, which now people will actually go to see and is very inaccurate, then, please just let me know how to remove it completely. Is there someone I can call to remove it? Idoonie (talk) 17:24, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * PLEASE explain what you consider to be inaccurate on the June Preston article, it has been edited by a large number of very experienced editors, it will NOT be removed, as the topic is notable. Theroadislong (talk) 17:41, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * My Mother just died! please be respectful with your tone and shouts.
 * Did you read the Hollywood Reporter obit? THAT is who she was not what is on wiki or do the wiki contributors know more than the Senior Editor at the Hollywood Reporter?
 * If anyone bothered to go to her Pinterest Boards online (opera and child star) which I have supplied to all which includes the full newspaper clippings, interviews, reviews, actual contracts and more, I would think her wiki page would be accurate but it is not. Most of the information on my mom is from a time where minimal documents have been digitized and it was abroad. The information in Wiki is from the very few references they could find online, but not entirely accurate because they have her in the US when she was clearly abroad, so whoever found the info. got the wrong person or bad source.  I have ALL the saved reliable credited newspapers with articles, interviews, reviews of her all over the world, which are all posted and downloaded online for all to see and use.
 * June Preston Opera
 * June Preston Child Star
 * As YOU requested, this is what is inaccurate:
 * 1)As a child star, she was promoted with heavy marketing and merchandising to position her as the next Shirley Temple. Actually, She was promoted as June Preston, not a second to Shirley Temple. This would be more accurate: Preston was born in Glendale, California. She made her screen debut at age 4 after being spotted on the RKO lot by an executive who requested an immediate screen test that landed her first role as Mrs. Blewett's Daughter in the 1934 film "Anne of Green Gables", and went on to do various other movies including Christmas in July, Have A Heart, In Love With Life, Maytime, Second Fiddle, History Is Made at Night, and Our Gang Follies. With her increasing popularity, she then went on to sign on with major merchandising contracts for various apparel lines including June Preston Frocks, JP Fairy Tale Frocks, a June Preston doll, suites, hats, shoes and toys, paint sets, paper cut out books, and more.
 * 2) Raised in Temple, Texas, Preston began her film career after her photograph was shown to the casting office of RKO in 1934, and was cast in a small role in Anne of Green Gables.
 *  Actually, She born and raised in Glendale, CA went to Sherman TX shortly before being "Spotted on the RKO Lot by an executive who requested an immediate screen test which led to a 7 year contract with RKO then another at age 9... 
 * 3)Preston then signed a contract with the studio and appeared in short films. (Actually they were not just short films only)
 * She also appeared in the 1934 MGM film Have a Heart. By 1936, she was promoted as an RKO "featured child player" and clothing model. She also had a small role in the film Our Gang Follies of 1938. For several years, a clothing line was produced under her name, including dresses named June Preston Frocks.  Actually, she appears in films not just short films just look at the obit from the Hollywood Reporter, he had more information than even I did with her films through his database. "Featured child Player" was used as she was a feature in a movie such as Christmas in July, just means an actor. And, it was multiple apparel manufactures for Dresses, Coats, Hats, Shoes, a June Preston Doll, and toys 
 * After her film career ended, she moved to West Seattle and attended James Madison Junior High and then West Seattle High School, graduating in 1947. Her high school would later, in 1989, induct her into their Hall of Fame.) Actually, her career didnt end, she left it to pursue an opera career because she was discovered by a famous Conductor Gustav Stern a German conductor and professor at Seattle University who coached her from age 15-16 and led her to worldwide fame (which is written in a 1975 book available to see on her Opera Pinterest board.
 * Preston studied music at Seattle University where she appeared in the university's 1947 production of Gilbert and Sullivan's H.M.S. Pinafore and was the soprano soloist in the university's performance of Giuseppe Verdi's Requiem in 1949. Actually, she began her studies in Junior High and within her University time period, Preston performed with the Seattle Civic Light Opera Company with which Stern conducted several operettas featuring Preston in the lead, such as Camille in "The Merry Widow", Marietta in "Naughty Marietta", Micaëla in "Carmen", Gianetta in "Gondoliers" "New Moon", and "Der Fledermaus". In that time Preston also performed in the Metropolitan Theater, Seattle Civic Auditorium under the baton of Gustav Stern (All seen on Opera Pinterest Board)
 * In 1950, she began a singing tour through Mexico, performing in Guadalajara at the Degollado Theater in July. ''' Actually, Beginning at age 22, Preston was sponsored by CocaCola, McCann-Erickson, Gaseosas, Fridgidaire, and the US Embassy for Radio & TV tours in over 6 countries, Coca Cola publicized Preston as "The Golden Voice" and she was the exclusive artist for McCann-Erickson. In late 1949 Preston began touring in North America performing in top Opera Houses, 1950 onward she performed in top opera houses such as, the Teatro Colón in Buenos Aires which has near-perfect acoustics, Teatro Nacional de Costa Rica, Palacio de Bellas Artes in Mexico City, Teatro Municipal in Santiago, Chile, Teatro Municipal, Rio de Janeiro, Gran Teatre del Liceu, Barcelona. As well as performing recitals for Presidents, and Diplomats. There were several US Embassy galas in honor of June Preston throughout Central and South America where she also performed as the featured guest. Preston was considered the "Established favorite in the lyric theaters in Central and South America."
 * In the summer of 1952 she toured with a company led by Argentine opera impresario Gregorio Ravic, which included Nicola Moscona, Jean Madeira, and Graciela Rivera, for four weeks of performances in cities in Colombia. Preston sang the role of Mimi in La bohème opposite the tenor Walter Fredericks as Rodolfo.  Actually, In 1952, she joined the cast of the Metropolitan Opera on the "Stars of the Metropolitan Opera" tour in the lead roll of "Mimi" in La Bohème opposite Metropolitan star, Jan Peerce as Rodolfo as well as Walter Fredericks, Nicola Moscona, Stefan Ballarini, Uta Graf, and the great Salvatore Baccaloni. And on a separate tour that year, Preston performed in the lead as "Floria Tosca" in "Tosca", opposite Tenor Walter Fredericks, Salvatore Baccaloni and others of the Metropolitan Opera. This is all in print reliable sourced newspapers located on her Pinterest Opera Board 
 * She was a member of the chorus of the San Francisco Opera for the 1952-1953 season and 1953-1954 season. Beginning a performance tour through the Caribbean in early 1954, she conducted a series of singing acts in February of that year starting in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. Later in the month, she traveled to Roatán, Honduras and performed with pianist Manuel Rueda from the Dominican Republic.  Actually, this is the worst inaccurate information, a Chorus girl?  She was NOT a chorus girl in these years.  She was NOT even in this country in the times you have on there, she was on tour abroad starting 1950-1960 (you can see all the newspaper clippings, programs, etc. for each of those years on her Pinterest Opera Page showing you she was not even in the US at this time. She was already an established Opera singer touring North/Central/South americas and then Europe on the BBC, Telephone Hour and sponsored by Coca Cola and exclusive artist for McCann Erickson etc. She did not do "Singing Acts" she performed Operas and Concert Recitals, My Lord, if you look at her Pinterest Opera Board all tours which are shown by BY YEAR, Newspaper Reviews, Interviews, programs, TV Shows etc.  Important like that should be on her wiki page.  
 * On 4 and 5 November 1961, at the Kiel Opera House in St. Louis, she was a soloist in the final movement of Beethoven's Symphony No. 9 in concert with the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra. She subsequently began a tour of recitals in Europe. In October 1962, she sang at Op Gouden Wieken, a concert hall in The Hague. She gave a recital on 30 November 1962 in Barcelona at the Palau de la Música Catalana and a subsequent performance in Tarragona on 3 December 1962 .  Actually, this is not bad but very minimal, it should read: In 1960 Preston returned to the US and made her debut at the St. Louis Symphony Hall as a guest star under the baton of Leopold Stokowski as the soloist singer for last movement finale of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. Other guest stars included, Isaac Stern, Leonard Bernstein, Leslie Chabay and Jean Madeira. Following was Preston European tour where she debut at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam, and thereafter touring throughout Europe performing in the most prestigious Opera Houses in Europe such as Palais Garnier, Teatro alla Scala, Parnassos Concert Hall in Athens Greece, Teatro Municipal, Lisbon Portugal, El Palacio de la Música, Barcelona Spain, Teatre del Liceu, Gran Teatre del Liceu, Teatro Nacional de São Carlos, and many more. The majority of Preston's performances were overseas. (all this documentation full newspapers can be seen on her Pinterest Board) 
 * ''' And why not add the Walter Winchell column and the was a fan of hers? Such as his write up about her European tour (which is on her Pinterest Opera board under Walter Winchell) Walter Winchell Column: December 20 1962: Page 24. "June Preston, American opera-lark, is getting rave notice in Europe. From an Amsterdam critic: "A smash! Every area a jewel!" June shrugged off the stallers along Broadway and is booked solid around the world..."
 * In the late 80's, Preston was signed as a cover performer for Kate Smith patriotic songs.  "Why this is on her wiki page is beyond me, She did this as a favor for a friend for a benefit, this is just stretching to find something to put on her page that clearly doesn't need to be, it was in print one time so that is why they put it on, but is this really relevant? no it's not. 
 * ?Notes: Ravic's company was known as the "Compañía de Ópera Estrellas del Metropolitan" (Stars of the Metropolitan) as several of the ensemble's leads were principal artists of the Metropolitan Opera (the "Met") who performed with this touring group while on summer break from the Met. However, it was not affiliated with the Met and also employed singers from other American opera companies. A 1952 Variety article reported that Preston was married to Ravic at this time.  Actually my Mother was NOT married to this person, he was her manager until 1952 when she fired him.  June Preston was married to one man, my father Saul Houben who died in 1982 and she NEVER remarried.  So kindly take off that she was married to Ravic? it was a mistake printed in the paper as I see it myself.  It was a mistake which happened frequently in those days. 
 * '''And what about the top vocal coaches she studied with? The great Lotte Lehmann, Edwin McArthur who worked with her a year to prepare for her for European tour in 1961, and Richard Lert, Sir Thomas Beecham and what about the newspaper stating she was offered to join La Scala in Milan? Or She being signed as first soprano at Teatro Colon in Buenos Aires one of the top opera houses in the world, and signed with multiple Symphony Orchestras as soloist which is all seen on her Pinterest Board (actual contracts, newspaper articles stating this). There is much no one has bothered to actually read about her to fix this page.
 * 'I hope this is helpful to see the misinformation and lack of information? Maybe follow the obituary the credited and sourced Hollywood Reporter did on her in addition to all the sourced and credited newspaper articles, interviews, critics, reviews that can be seen and downloaded from her Pinterest Opera Page and Pinterest Movie Page may help.
 * I am grieving the loss of my mother, I do not want to start going back and forth with anyone negative on page. But if you cannot take her page down or refuse to, please fix it.  If you cannot fix it properly, let me know and I will directly contact Corporate and Jim Wales to discuss this issue and put this all to rest.  Thank you. Idoonie (talk) 20:41, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I am VERY sorry for your loss. I have implemented quite a few changes for you, but you must understand that Wikipedia articles are a work in progress, and we only report on what the reliable sources say, the article is probably never going to be what you want it to be. Your suggestions would be more useful on the article talk page, but I doubt that anyone will implement them all. I have no power to take the article down and neither does Jimmy Wales. Theroadislong (talk) 21:01, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I have tons of reliable source newspapers with articles, reviews, interviews of her for a decade in the opera world posted on her Opera Pinterest Board. Those are reputable Newspapers with paper name, dates, page and articles of her, isn't that considered reliable source information? Not everything was digitally transferred from those days I have the actual newspapers which I posted and one can clearly see all of on her Pinterest Board? It's fine.... I appreciate your help, I will see how it looks and decide what to do at a later time. but thank you ! Idoonie (talk) 21:41, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Idoonie I see that you have mentioned that newspapers were not "digitally transferred" or "digitized" in the old days. You  can use an article that was published in a newspaper as a reference, even if the article is not available online.  What you need for a reference -- and others here can help you with this more than I can -- is the name of the newspaper,  the date it was published, the page number, and maybe some other info that I am forgetting.  I only mention this because you have lamented this lack of digitization a few times, but you should be able to use these as references.  Good luck. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:03, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, yes your are exactly right, lots were not digitally transferred, but I actually have the original Newspapers (reviews/interviews/ads etc) about my mom from all over the world and I posted it all online for people on Wiki... Actually, I spent over 2 months scanning and uploading original Newspaper articles/reviews/interviews/1975 Book stating she was of "world fame"... Newspapers, ads which clearly shows the newspaper name, country, date, page, critic/journalist's name. I uploaded it all to her Pinterest Board(s) for anyone to use or source to. The newspapers are all authentic from the 40's 50's and 60's and I uploaded them on Pinterest because I don't know where else to share decades worth of publicity for everyone to use and source to. I even went to the trouble of translating some of the reviews and interviews, since a lot were in other languages. I don't know what else I can do for anyone.  It's all there in black and white. Trust me, I have mentioned this on these talk pages over and over posting the links to the newspapers which can be used as a source since it's a "Newspaper"... I don't get it. I don't know what else to do? But I do appreciate your trying to help :)
 * Just so you can see for yourself, check out the links below, especially the Opera one...(you can see for yourself all the credible newspapers etc. to source to):
 * June Preston Opera
 * June Preston RKO Film Idoonie (talk) 22:18, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Just so you can see for yourself, check out the links below, especially the Opera one...(you can see for yourself all the credible newspapers etc. to source to):
 * June Preston Opera
 * June Preston RKO Film Idoonie (talk) 22:18, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

June Preston Opera/Movie: All new sourced articles, interviews, ads for Radio & TV (incl. transcript, programs) from Coca-Cola, Telephone Hour, BBC etc.)
Hi, everyone, this is Sabrina, June Preston’s daughter. As promised, I finished compiling and posting most of the publicity and reliably sourced newspaper articles, reviews, contracts that I have on hand from her career(s) on both Pinterest Board(s). For her Child Star career AND her extensive Opera career now both available to view on her Pinterest Boards and to help fix her wiki page (OPERA: including a book stating she reached "world fame" in opera - see below). I translated lots of the articles etc via the Google App translator for your convenience, I still have more to do and will as time allows): It's a lot to translate from different languages.

Film: there are 189 new pins(articles/press/apparel/Meglin kiddie/movies) on there by sections to easily find what you seek:

Pinterest Child Star link: 	June Preston Child Star of the 1930's & '40's

OPERA: There are 420 new pins on the Opera Board: Including, 1948-1963 reliable sourced newspaper articles, reviews, interviews, radio & TV transcripts, including recitals/symphony orchestra programs, contracts, and photos and newspaper critic articles, and a Book which will substantiate what I said about her career and hopefully there will no long be any doubt on anyone’s mind as to her credibility of being the distinguished opera singer that she was with all this proof :)

Pinterest Opera Link: June Preston Distinguished Opera Singer

To entice you a bit about her Opera career which some had reservations about, I am putting a few facts below that can be found on her Pinterest opera board for all to see (all in sections by year for easy searching and backed-up by reliable sourced newspaper articles, reviews, contracts and more):

BOOK: Stating June Preston reached "World Fame": [https://www.pinterest.com/pin/577938564694460751/ 1975 Book: Geschichte von Oberbrechen, pg. 191] Gustav Stern interview "...Some of his students have achieved world fame, alto Dorothy Cole and Soprano, June Preston, to name just two." Publication info: For more: Full book front/pages/translations are shown on per Pinterest page.

Cola, McCann-Erickson, Firestone etc. & the United States Embassy sponsorships in over 6 countries (She was the exclusive artist for McCann-Erickson, Coca-Cola ESSO Radio & TV concert programs including, “Telephone Hour”, London BBC etc. (Contracts, newspaper articles, reviews can be seen in the section called: ''Coca-Cola 1951-1957 and other sections by year. She was deemed “The Golden Voice” seen on her Coca-Cola ads and by critics The Golden Voice

Tours 1949 thru 1963 all can be found by section by year: In print: “The most distinguished opera critics deemed her the “Golden Voice" and “one of the Voices of the Time” (in articles and ads). Newspaper reviews, interviews, programs of her performances from top Opera Houses in North, Central, South America to Europe, from France, Spain, Greece, Portugal, to Holland.  US Ambassadors receptions in her honor in several countries, spoke of “June Preston being one of the truly important ambassadors and representatives of the United States." (seen in her bio), Oswaldo Farres and Opera singer Marta Perez gave receptions in June Preston's honor at (in multiple newspapers), and more…  Just on one of her South/Central America tours spanned 80 performances in 37 cities. There are articles in 1952-53 of her being asked to join ” La Scala” in Milan.

Other Sections on her board: Walter Winchell column, Vocal Coaches/teachers such as Lotte Lehmann, Edwin McArthur (Articles: Edwin McArthur “who prepared her presentation of a new series of compositions to perform on her European Tour in 1962“, in 1949 Fanny Anitúa teachings, Martin Kalmanoff (photos of them rehearsing)& more, Metropolitan tour section with reliable sourced articles, reviews, programs, photos of June Preston, Jan Peerce & the met casts. Wiki Page: (Preston sang opposite “Jan Peerce” in La Boheme, then sometimes with Robert Weede when Peerce was not available, that correction would be nice to fix on her wiki page (see her Board 1952 – Jan Peerce/June Preston programs, posters etc.) but Preston was already established by the time she performed with the Met cast, (see article): Article: "...June Preston, Lily Pons, Jan Peerce, Nino Luciano, Robert Weede, and others in the leading roles.".

As for her early years of 1944 - 1948 which I see a little bit on her Wiki page but is not very accurate: In 1944 she was discovered by Gustave Stern a master of Opera Co.'s in Leipzig and Berlin (see bio/articles) who had moved to Seattle, WA and heard her at a reception in his honor, a week later he was her vocal coach/teacher and while at University, she went to performed with the Seattle Symphony Orchestra, in Naughty Marietta”, "Gondoliers" Gilbert & Sullivan's Operetta and “Merry Widow”, “Carmen” and where Gaetano Merola, founder & director of San Fran Opera predicted she was destined for greatness other “quotes” from him on her Pinterest board and encouraged her to come to San Fran which she did and studied with Lotte Lehmann etc. She ended up receiving a world tour and left Seattle to start her career. In this time she also performed at the Metropolitan Theater and Civic Auditorium; in Toronto, Canada at Massey hall; in Boston at Symphony Hall where Metropolitan stars gave their “quotes” about her in 1949 which can be found on 1950 programs and other publicity and articles. She went on to start her South America tour in mid 1949 and studied with Fanny Anitúa while performing there as well.

Metropolitan NYC Stars Quotes 1949 on 1950 program: : seen on her Pinterest board

Metropolitan NYC stars quotes about performing with Preston in 1952 and Serge Koussevitzky (Conductor of Boston Symphony Orchestra 1949-50) all seen on 1954 program & articles etc.)

She was Contracted with Opera Houses/Symphonies: Example: Juan Emilio Martini, renowned maestro of the Teatro Colon in Buenos Aires, was so impressed with her voice when she sang there with the met that he invited her to come back the next opera season to perform as soloist with his Symphony Orchestra Buenos Aires, AND contracted her as “leading soprano” with the Teatro Colon Opera Company (articles/contract/programs for the following year (see contract on her board) He also offered to be her accompanist (pianist) on all her recitals for her Argentinian tour (reliable sourced newspapers articles substantiating and speak of this). Preston had top accompanists throughout her career such as Enesto Lecuona, Hans Janowitz, Despina Helmi, Manuel Rueda many more. (all substantiated in programs and newspaper articles, ads on her Pinterest board to be seen)

There is so much more, but this note is already too long and I apologize, but I wanted to say the above because there was so much skepticism going around about her status in the opera world and now one can truly see and read about her career verified/sourced by credible newspapers, contracts and more. I know a lot of other publicity was lost between those years, but this is enough to prove who she was when working on fixing her wiki page to reflect the distinguished career she had.

FYI: We do not need to particularly say this on Wiki, but I wanted to let you know the reason she retired abruptly in the mid 1960's is because she met my father in 1962 (a Belgian Violinist) and upon finishing her European tour, they married and then had me. She was only married once to him and had one child. My father died at age 60... She never remarried. She said, she did not want to raise a child touring constantly and what it took on a daily basis to keep up the art so she basically gave up her career for me. So if anyone is wondering why it all stopped in the mid 60's, that is why no other reason. She did performed here and there as a favors to friends in the industry throughout the years, but never went back to do it full-time.

BTW: Can someone please remove 1980's info. about her being a Kate Smith patriotic singer, this was a one time favor she did for a friend but it was not part of her career and isn't revenant to her wiki page. Thanks so much!

And anyone working on her Film RKO career there are a few more new sourced articles and information substantiating films she was in, who she was & I’m working with archive people to get more. Thank you all for your help with this… I wish I could just do it myself, but I know I can’t so I must rely on your kindness to donate your time to give her an accurate wiki page. I hope this is helpful for those who are interested in her careers and help fix her current Wiki page which needs help because some info. on it is not accurate. I will be out of town for a week so I won't be able to answer any questions till then. Thanks again to all for your help and kindness! SabrinaIdoonie (talk) 23:12, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Again PLEASE explain what you consider to be inaccurate on the June Preston article, you keep saying this but giving no details? Theroadislong (talk) 17:43, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Wow, there's a lot of information on this talk page. If I'm reading the above sections correctly, the disputed information includes: "the Seattle info is also all wrong, then they have her looking like a chorus girl for years in San Fran opera, when she wasn't even in this country at that time, she was touring over 13 countries and for the next decade. And she was only married once to my father, Belgian concert violinist Saul Houben. [...] She was born and raised in Glendale, CA and shortly moved to Texas [...] but was not raised in Texas. She began her north/central/south opera tours in 1950 not 1954, she was already highly established by 1950 deemed the "Golden Voice of the times"... She also didn't not perform "Singing acts" she performed Concert Recitals and the lead roles in Operas with an extensive classical repertoire, not a pop singer.
 * I see the marriage issue, at least, has already been brought up and discussed on the article's talk page. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:22, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Please remember to log in before editing, I have removed the seattle info for you and the raised in Texas bit none of which was sourced. I have changed perform "Singing acts" to "conducted a series of performances".Theroadislong (talk) 18:31, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You say "And she was only married once to my father, Belgian concert violinist Saul Houben." and that is all that the article says? Theroadislong (talk) 18:37, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * thank you Idoonie (talk) 20:59, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * yes, I see it under "Notes" it says she was married to Ravic? but she wasn't he was her manager not her husband and she fired him in 1952. Idoonie (talk) 21:01, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, can I just please ask that you simply remove the incorrect information saying "She was a member of the chorus of the San Francisco Opera for the 1952–1953 season and 1953–1954 season", She was not even in the United States in those years, she was on tours abroad sponsored by CocaCola, McCann Erickson in those exact years. For confirmation where she was in those specific years see here: June Preston Tours
 * Not asking for anything but the removal of inaccurate information, she wan't even in the USA in the years they are saying she was in San Francisco. Thanks so much! Idoonie (talk) 19:46, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry but that content is supported by a reliable source (Daniel Blum, ed. (1955). Daniel Blum's Opera World. G.P. Putnam's Sons. p. 41) that is what we base articles on, reliable sources. Theroadislong (talk) 20:05, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but if you insist on keeping this false information on her page, then I need to see the source. The citation is there, but there is NO link to the source.  This source is wrong. She was not in the country those years period, that can easily be confirmed from the tour information for all those years available to see and source to if one wants to.  She cannot be in two places at once.
 * I looked everywhere to see page 41 in the: (Daniel Blum, ed. (1955). Daniel Blum's Opera World. G.P. Putnam's Sons. p. 41) I can't find it, please show it to me. Thank. Idoonie (talk) 04:19, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

May 2022
Hello, I noticed that you may have recently made edits while logged out. Wikipedia's policy on multiple accounts usually does not allow the use of both an account and an IP address by the same person in the same setting and doing so may result in your account being blocked from editing. Additionally, making edits while logged out reveals your IP address, which may allow others to determine your location and identity. If this was not your intention, please remember to log in when editing. Thank you. Theroadislong (talk) 18:49, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Your loss
Sabrina, we are not an uncaring and unsympathetic group of people here though it may seem that way sometimes. We are principled and we will adhere to and enforce Wikipedia policy when necessary. I am so sorry for the loss of your mother and I understand, now more than ever, you feel as though you need to make sure her legacy is established. A lot of experienced editors have worked with you on the Wikipedia article about your mother. You have to understand that no editor here will remove sourced information because someone asks them to. We have discussed this before and the criteria has not changed. You must tell us exactly what is inaccurate, provide what is accurate (sourced) for evaluation and then allow an independent editor or group of editors to make the changes if it is deemed necessary. Any information that is unsourced can be removed. Any information referenced to a reliable source can not be removed without a consensus decision of the community. A discussion can be started at the the article talk page. There are people willing to listen and help you but there is no guarantee the end result will be what you want. Again, I'm so sorry for your loss and I completely empathize with you and your position. -- A Rose Wolf  19:57, 17 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your kind words, I really appreciate it.  I honestly just do not want anything put on her wiki that is beyond what she was.  The Obit that the senior editor at the Hollywood Reporter wrote and summed up exactly who she was, it was in short everything she did without going too much into depth but it was accurate.  I am only asking to change things that are incorrect like dates, and her being a chorus girl for multiple years when she was actually out of the US on tour aboard, her marriage to a man she was not married to, etc. That's really all and maybe a bit more, her career was extensive and her wiki page does to show that when other's that did less then her are done well with plenty of info.  If you want to share the corrections shown below with others, please feel free. I can't keep doing this again from different wiki pages etc. but thank you and anyone that fixes her page... i most likely wont be chatting much on this board, it's too hard constantly having to defend her when she should not need it based on all the information now available online... just google her name and it all pops up. 
 * Someone else asked me earlier to list what was incorrect on Talk page and Ill just copy and paste what I wrote to them (feel free to share this if you like):
 * All sources/reliable newspapers with articles, reviews, interviews, contracts, etc. located on her Pinterest Boards to see and use as reliable sources information for a write up on her: Anyone who looks at her Opera Pinterest page full of newspapers, contracts with Opera Houses, talks of her joining La Scala in Milan, coca cola, and performing on Telephone Hour, BBC London programs with top symphony orchestras all listed by each year, must be able to do a nice wiki page. '''
 * June Preston Opera
 * '''June Preston Child Star
 * As you requested, this is what is inaccurate:
 * 1)As a child star, she was promoted with heavy marketing and merchandising to position her as the next Shirley Temple. Actually, She was promoted as June Preston, not a second to Shirley Temple.This would be more accurate:Preston was born in Glendale, California. She made her screen debut at age 4 after being spotted on the RKO lot by an executive who requested an immediate screen test that landed her first role as Mrs. Blewett's Daughter in the 1934 film "Anne of Green Gables", and went on to do various other movies including Christmas in July, Have A Heart, In Love With Life, Maytime, Second Fiddle, History Is Made at Night, and Our Gang Follies. With her increasing popularity, she then went on to sign on with major merchandising contracts for various apparel lines including June Preston Frocks, JP Fairy Tale Frocks, a June Preston doll, suites, hats, shoes and toys, paint sets, paper cut out books, and more. (Now you have The Hollywood Reporter OBIT to source to for this).
 * 2) Raised in Temple, Texas, Preston began her film career after her photograph was shown to the casting office of RKO in 1934, and was cast in a small role in Anne of Green Gables.
 * Actually, She born and raised in Glendale, CA went to Sherman TX shortly before being "Spotted on the RKO Lot by an executive who requested an immediate screen test which led to a 7 year contract with RKO then another at age 9...
 * 3)Preston then signed a contract with the studio and appeared in short films. (Actually they were not just short films only)
 * She also appeared in the 1934 MGM film Have a Heart. By 1936, she was promoted as an RKO "featured child player" and clothing model. She also had a small role in the film Our Gang Follies of 1938. For several years, a clothing line was produced under her name, including dresses named June Preston Frocks. Actually, she appears in films not just short films just look at the obit from the Hollywood Reporter, he had more information than even I did with her films through his database. "Featured child Player" was used as she was a feature in a movie such as Christmas in July, just means an actor. And, it was multiple apparel manufactures for Dresses, Coats, Hats, Shoes, a June Preston Doll, and toys (Now you have The Hollywood Reporter OBIT to source to for this).
 * After her film career ended, she moved to West Seattle and attended James Madison Junior High and then West Seattle High School, graduating in 1947. Her high school would later, in 1989, induct her into their Hall of Fame.) '''Actually, her career didnt end, she left it to pursue an opera career because she was discovered by a famous Conductor Gustav Stern a German conductor and professor at Seattle University who coached her from age 15-16 and led her to worldwide fame (which is written in a 1975 book available to see on her Opera Pinterest board.
 * Preston studied music at Seattle University where she appeared in the university's 1947 production of Gilbert and Sullivan's H.M.S. Pinafore and was the soprano soloist in the university's performance of Giuseppe Verdi's Requiem in 1949. Actually, she began her studies in Junior High and within her University time period, Preston performed with the Seattle Civic Light Opera Company with which Stern conducted several operettas featuring Preston in the lead, such as Camille in "The Merry Widow", Marietta in "Naughty Marietta", Micaëla in "Carmen", Gianetta in "Gondoliers" "New Moon", and "Der Fledermaus". In that time Preston also performed in the Metropolitan Theater, Seattle Civic Auditorium under the baton of Gustav Stern (All seen on Opera Pinterest Board)'''(Now you have The Hollywood Reporter OBIT to source to for this).
 * 4)In 1950, she began a singing tour through Mexico, performing in Guadalajara at the Degollado Theater in July. Actually, Beginning at age 22, Preston was sponsored by CocaCola, McCann-Erickson, Gaseosas, Fridgidaire, and the US Embassy for Radio & TV tours in over 6 countries, Coca Cola publicized Preston as "The Golden Voice" and she was the exclusive artist for McCann-Erickson. In late 1949 Preston began touring in North America performing in top Opera Houses, 1950 onward she performed in top opera houses such as, the Teatro Colón in Buenos Aires which has near-perfect acoustics, Teatro Nacional de Costa Rica, Palacio de Bellas Artes in Mexico City, Teatro Municipal in Santiago, Chile, Teatro Municipal, Rio de Janeiro, Gran Teatre del Liceu, Barcelona. As well as performing recitals for Presidents, and Diplomats. There were several US Embassy galas in honor of June Preston throughout Central and South America where she also performed as the featured guest. Preston was considered the "Established favorite in the lyric theaters in Central and South America." '''
 * 5)In the summer of 1952 she toured with a company led by Argentine opera impresario Gregorio Ravic, which included Nicola Moscona, Jean Madeira, and Graciela Rivera, for four weeks of performances in cities in Colombia. Preston sang the role of Mimi in La bohème opposite the tenor Walter Fredericks as Rodolfo. Actually, In 1952, she joined the castof the Metropolitan Opera on the "Stars of the Metropolitan Opera" tour in the lead roll of "Mimi" in La Bohème opposite Metropolitan star, Jan Peerce as Rodolfo as well as Walter Fredericks, Nicola Moscona, Stefan Ballarini, Uta Graf, and the great Salvatore Baccaloni. And on a separate tour that year, Preston performed in the lead as "Floria Tosca" in "Tosca", opposite Tenor Walter Fredericks, Salvatore Baccaloni and others of the Metropolitan Opera. This is all in print reliable sourced newspapers located on her Pinterest Opera Board 
 * 6)She was a member of the chorus of the San Francisco Opera for the 1952-1953 season and 1953-1954 season. Beginning a performance tour through the Caribbean in early 1954, she conducted a series of singing acts in February of that year starting in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. Later in the month, she traveled to Roatán, Honduras and performed with pianist Manuel Rueda from the Dominican Republic. Actually, this is the worst inaccurate information, a Chorus girl? She was NOT a chorus girl in these years. She was NOT even in this country in the times you have on there, she was on tour abroad starting 1950-1960 (you can see all the newspaper clippings, programs, etc. for each of those years on her Pinterest Opera Page showing you she was not even in the US at this time. She was already an established Opera singer touring North/Central/South americas and then Europe on the BBC, Telephone Hour and sponsored by Coca Cola and exclusive artist for McCann Erickson etc. She did not do "Singing Acts" she performed Operas and Concert Recitals, My Lord, if you look at her Pinterest Opera Board all tours which are shown by BY YEAR, Newspaper Reviews, Interviews, programs, TV Shows etc. Important like that should be on her wiki page. 
 * 7) On 4 and 5 November 1961, at the Kiel Opera House in St. Louis, she was a soloist in the final movement of Beethoven's Symphony No. 9 in concert with the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra. She subsequently began a tour of recitals in Europe. In October 1962, she sang at Op Gouden Wieken, a concert hall in The Hague. She gave a recital on 30 November 1962 in Barcelona at the Palau de la Música Catalana and a subsequent performance in Tarragona on 3 December 1962 . Actually, this is not bad but very minimal, it should read: In 1960 Preston returned to the US and made her debut at the St. Louis Symphony Hall as a guest star under the baton of Leopold Stokowski as the soloist singer for last movement finale of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. Other guest stars included, Isaac Stern, Leonard Bernstein, Leslie Chabay and Jean Madeira. Following was Preston European tour where she debut at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam, and thereafter touring throughout Europe performing in the most prestigious Opera Houses in Europe such as Palais Garnier, Teatro alla Scala, Parnassos Concert Hall in Athens Greece, Teatro Municipal, Lisbon Portugal, El Palacio de la Música, Barcelona Spain, Teatre del Liceu, Gran Teatre del Liceu, Teatro Nacional de São Carlos, and many more. The majority of Preston's performances were overseas. (all this documentation full newspapers can be seen on her Pinterest Board)''
 * And why not add the sourced Walter Winchell column article and the was a fan of hers? Such as his write up about her European tour (which is on her Pinterest Opera board under Walter Winchell) Walter Winchell Column: December 20 1962: Page 24. "June Preston, American opera-lark, is getting rave notice in Europe. From an Amsterdam critic: "A smash! Every area a jewel!" June shrugged off the stallers along Broadway and is booked solid around the world..." That is sourced too''
 * 8) In the late 80's, Preston was signed as a cover performer for Kate Smith patriotic songs. "Actually, she did this as a favor for a friend for a benefit, this is just stretching to find something to put on her page that clearly doesn't need to be, it was in print one time for publicity but was not relevant to her career it was a favor she did for someone - it doesn't need to be on there when there is so much more to talk about.
 * 9) Notes: Ravic's company was known as the "Compañía de Ópera Estrellas del Metropolitan" (Stars of the Metropolitan) as several of the ensemble's leads were principal artists of the Metropolitan Opera (the "Met") who performed with this touring group while on summer break from the Met. However, it was not affiliated with the Met and also employed singers from other American opera companies. A 1952 Variety article reported that Preston was married to Ravic at this time. Actually my Mother was NOT married to this person, he was her manager until 1952 when she fired him. June Preston was married to one man, my father Saul Houben who died in 1982 and she NEVER remarried. So kindly take off that she was married to Ravic? it was a mistake printed in the paper as I see it myself. It was a mistake which happened frequently in those days.
 * '''And what about the top coaches she studied with? The great Lotte Lehmann, Edwin McArthur who worked with her a year to prepare for her for European tour in 1961 which is in newspaper print stating all this, and Richard Lert, Sir Thomas Beecham and what about the newspaper stating she was offered to join La Scala in Milan? Or She being signed at Teatro Colon in Buenos Aires one of the top opera houses in the world, and signed with multiple Symphony Orchestras as soloist which is all seen on her Pinterest Board (actual contracts, newspaper articles stating this in black and white print). All one has to do is go to the Pinterest page/board and take a look, its all there with sourced and reliable newspaper clippings, I can't help it if they don't show up in old databases, but they are available to see and print online at her Pinterest board(s) for both careers. But now you can source to The Hollywood Reporter to back up all the information you need and more obits to come... or is that not credited sourced info either?
 * I hope this is helpful to see the misinformation and lack of information? Maybe follow the obituary wording and use that as a source as well to back up the information that needs to be added to her wiki page? And other credited publication that will be soon coming out with her obits? And of course the proof which are the newspaper articles etc. on her Pinterest Board ready to be read. I worked extremely hard getting all that information her Pinterest especially to make things easier on all of you to be able to source quickly to Newspapers.''' Idoonie (talk) 22:07, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * 9) Notes: Ravic's company was known as the "Compañía de Ópera Estrellas del Metropolitan" (Stars of the Metropolitan) as several of the ensemble's leads were principal artists of the Metropolitan Opera (the "Met") who performed with this touring group while on summer break from the Met. However, it was not affiliated with the Met and also employed singers from other American opera companies. A 1952 Variety article reported that Preston was married to Ravic at this time. Actually my Mother was NOT married to this person, he was her manager until 1952 when she fired him. June Preston was married to one man, my father Saul Houben who died in 1982 and she NEVER remarried. So kindly take off that she was married to Ravic? it was a mistake printed in the paper as I see it myself. It was a mistake which happened frequently in those days.
 * '''And what about the top coaches she studied with? The great Lotte Lehmann, Edwin McArthur who worked with her a year to prepare for her for European tour in 1961 which is in newspaper print stating all this, and Richard Lert, Sir Thomas Beecham and what about the newspaper stating she was offered to join La Scala in Milan? Or She being signed at Teatro Colon in Buenos Aires one of the top opera houses in the world, and signed with multiple Symphony Orchestras as soloist which is all seen on her Pinterest Board (actual contracts, newspaper articles stating this in black and white print). All one has to do is go to the Pinterest page/board and take a look, its all there with sourced and reliable newspaper clippings, I can't help it if they don't show up in old databases, but they are available to see and print online at her Pinterest board(s) for both careers. But now you can source to The Hollywood Reporter to back up all the information you need and more obits to come... or is that not credited sourced info either?
 * I hope this is helpful to see the misinformation and lack of information? Maybe follow the obituary wording and use that as a source as well to back up the information that needs to be added to her wiki page? And other credited publication that will be soon coming out with her obits? And of course the proof which are the newspaper articles etc. on her Pinterest Board ready to be read. I worked extremely hard getting all that information her Pinterest especially to make things easier on all of you to be able to source quickly to Newspapers.''' Idoonie (talk) 22:07, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I hope this is helpful to see the misinformation and lack of information? Maybe follow the obituary wording and use that as a source as well to back up the information that needs to be added to her wiki page? And other credited publication that will be soon coming out with her obits? And of course the proof which are the newspaper articles etc. on her Pinterest Board ready to be read. I worked extremely hard getting all that information her Pinterest especially to make things easier on all of you to be able to source quickly to Newspapers.''' Idoonie (talk) 22:07, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

How do I get Vintage newspapers that I possess digitized or? for people to use as a source?
Hi, I have a lots of vintage reputable published newspapers from around the world, can anyone out there tell me how I can get them digitized or what I need to do with them in order for people like yourself be able to use them as a source to add info on wiki? I'd appreciate any suggestions Thanks!--Idoonie (talk) 21:00, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * As you have been told many times the sources do not need to be digitized/online, you can use the format cite news |last= |first= |date= |title= |url= |work= |location= |access-date= we don't need any photographs of the news papers or links to photos on Pinterest. Theroadislong (talk) 21:09, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I guess i keep asking because I never get a clear answer as you say, the only thing you need to cite to is "format cite news" ("Title of Article: Subtitle if Any." Name of Newspaper, Date of Publication, p. Page Number. Note: If the author's name is not listed, begin the citation with the title of the article)...MLA Citation Guide
 * Okay, then why isn't anyone using the plethora of newspaper articles 1949-1960's to cite to? This is the 'notable' information about places she performed validating her career, people and places she performed in etc.
 * If you don't go to the source of where the newspapers live, which are currently on Pinterest, then where will you find them to cite/source to? This is precisely my question. Idoonie (talk) 19:10, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * We are all volunteers here and we choose what to edit according to our interests, if there is content you feel should be in the article then you can request an edit on the article talk page using the request edit template and a reliable source. Theroadislong (talk) 19:15, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * thank you Idoonie (talk) 19:37, 23 May 2022 (UTC)