User talk:Ikaros29

Speedy deletion of The Real Macedonia
A tag has been placed on The Real Macedonia requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. DanielRigal (talk) 14:35, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Do not recreate this article
Wikipedia is not a soapbox, or a place to disseminate one's views, no matter how impartial, factual, or balanced thay may be asserted to be. Wikipedia does not disseminate original research. Information about Macedonia nd the various  diagreements regarding the name can already be found by looking up the term here. Cheers and happy editing. - CobaltBlueTony™ talk 14:40, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Just look up the information you need. The Macedonia article is itself a disambiguation page that lists all possible uses of the word "Macedonia".  Anyone looking up the Republic of Macedonia (Република Македонија) sees a country with that legal name, but also sees an article link at the top that discusses the terminology issues: Macedonia_(terminology).  We do not engage in propaganda, but everything is decided based on community consensus.  My instruction to you is meant to keep things here civil as this is likely a hot-button topic which should be discussed heavily and extensively before making potentially controversial articles and changes.  In my opinion, your article title is already best served with the information found at Macedonia_(terminology).  If you were to present any other material, such as the "truth" you propose, it could very well stir up contentions, and might violate Wikipedia's strict neutral point-of-view policy, which is one of the five pillars of Wikipedia and will be enforced at the expense of any other efforts. The phrase "the real Macedonia" suggests you have a strong opinion about the proper usage of that name, and unless you are going to present your own views (backed up with your selected facts and sources), then the material is already covered at Macedonia_(terminology).  Feel free to discuss this with me, or on any of the talk pages. - CobaltBlueTony™ talk 16:33, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia uses the name that the country uses for itself constitutionally, which is accepted by an overall majority of other nations. Its dispute with Greece over the name has yet to be resolved.  All countries, regardless of their position on the name, have agreed to use whichever name results from the UN compromise talks.  Once that completes, and this nation changes its legal name, it's guaranteed that the article name will likewise change. - CobaltBlueTony™ talk 16:48, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Sign your comments
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! - CobaltBlueTony™ talk 16:49, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Your recent edits
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 18:02, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Republic of Macedonia
Do your research. The ethicacy of the name use is in dispute, so until then, Wikipdia uses the below information to recommend usage for this site:

List of countries/entities using "Republic of Macedonia" in bilateral diplomatic relations
As of September 2008, up to 124 countries recognise the Republic of Macedonia by its constitutional name. Four of the five permanent UN Security Council members:
 * United States of America (NATO and G8 member ): The federal government uses "Republic of Macedonia", while the US Congress uses the mixed designation "Republic of Macedonia (FYROM)".
 * 🇬🇧 United Kingdom (EU, NATO and G8 member): The UK uses the name "Republic of Macedonia" for bilateral relations, and "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" for multilateral relations.
 * People's Republic of China
 * 🇷🇺 Russia (G8 member)

All former Yugoslav republics:
 * Bosnia-Herzegovina
 * 🇭🇷 Croatia
 * 🇲🇪 Montenegro
 * 🇷🇸 Serbia
 * 🇸🇮 Slovenia (EU and NATO member)

In addition, the following countries have also recognized the nation by its constitutional name:
 * 🇩🇿 Algeria
 * 🇦🇷 Argentina
 * 🇦🇹 Austria (EU member)
 * 🇦🇿 Azerbaijan
 * 🇧🇾 Belarus
 * 🇧🇳 Brunei Darussalam
 * 🇧🇬 Bulgaria (EU and NATO member)
 * 🇨🇦 Canada (NATO and G8 member)
 * 🇨🇱 Chile
 * 🇨🇷 Costa Rica
 * 🇨🇺 Cuba
 * 🇪🇨 Ecuador
 * 🇸🇻 El Salvador
 * 🇭🇳 Honduras
 * 🇭🇺 Hungary (EU and NATO member)
 * 🇮🇸 Iceland (NATO member)
 * 🇮🇷 Iran
 * 🇰🇿 Kazakhstan
 * 🇰🇬 Kyrgyzstan
 * Laos
 * 🇱🇮 Liechtenstein
 * 🇱🇹 Lithuania (EU and NATO member)
 * 🇲🇾 Malaysia
 * 🇲🇻 Maldives
 * 🇲🇩 Moldova
 * 🇲🇳 Mongolia
 * 🇲🇦 Morocco
 * 🇲🇲 Myanmar
 * 🇳🇷 Nauru
 * 🇳🇵 Nepal
 * 🇳🇿 New Zealand
 * 🇳🇬 Nigeria
 * 🇳🇴 Norway (NATO member)
 * 🇴🇲 Oman
 * 🇵🇦 Panama
 * 🇵🇾 Paraguay
 * 🇵🇱 Poland (EU and NATO member)
 * 🇶🇦 Qatar
 * 🇷🇴 Romania (EU and NATO member)
 * 🇱🇨 Saint Lucia
 * 🇸🇰 Slovakia (EU and NATO member)
 * Sovereign Military Order of Malta
 * 🇱🇰 Sri Lanka
 * 🇸🇪 Sweden (EU member)
 * 🇨🇭 Switzerland
 * 🇹🇷 Turkey (NATO member)
 * 🇺🇦 Ukraine
 * 🇺🇿 Uzbekistan
 * Vietnam

List of countries/entities using "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" for all official purposes

 * 🇦🇺 Australia
 * 🇧🇭 Bahrain
 * 🇧🇿 Belize
 * 🇧🇪 Belgium (EU and NATO member)
 * 🇨🇾 Cyprus (EU member)
 * 🇪🇬 Egypt
 * 🇫🇷 France (EU, NATO, G8 and permanent UN Security Council member)
 * 🇩🇪 Germany (EU, NATO and G8 member)
 * 🇬🇷 Greece (EU and NATO member)
 * 🇮🇳 India
 * 🇱🇻 Latvia (EU and NATO member)
 * 🇱🇺 Luxembourg (EU and NATO member)
 * Federated States of Micronesia
 * 🇲🇨 Monaco
 * 🇵🇹 Portugal (EU and NATO member)
 * 🇸🇬 Singapore
 * 🇿🇦 South Africa
 * 🇪🇸 Spain (EU and NATO member)
 * 🇻🇦 The Holy See

Barking up the wrong tree
You understand that I'm enforcing community consensus, don't you? This isn't some sort of bureaucratic decision handed down by some higher-ups. The community discusses and decides. And they do use the majority opinion. The list of countries that use "Republic of Macedonia" is much higher than those that do not. Since there is a significant minority opinion present, it is also documented. We cannot have articles named two things, so one name -- the majority-used one -- is the title.

You can keep arguing with me, but there's nothing I can do about it. Even if I were to support your intentions and allow a single opinion to become a "factual" article, it would immediately be discredited and removed -- consistently. This is the way things work here.

Regarding Macedonian being exclusively Greek: today there are literally millions of so-called Christians, Muslims, or Jews who scarcely resemble the ancient proscribed peoples, yet no one can suppress what they choose to call themselves, even if they really don't resemble their perceived faith in many people's eyes. This is, after all, about labels, and self-definition. And this is not a case where there is a clear direction that one label is entirely out of place. The debate about who is Macedonian has been going on for longer than any entity having the ability to arbitrate it has existed. - CobaltBlueTony™ talk 12:46, 6 October 2008 (UTC)