User talk:Ikiroid/Archive 7

2RR
Would you support the 2RR reform?-- HIZKIAH (User &#149; Talk) 16:37, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'd support as a noticeboard for possible edit wars, but I'm not sure I'd support it with 24-hour blocks, etc., unless 3RR was dumped. I like it now as a proposal. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 19:12, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar


Hello T.D., I don't believe we've met until now, but I would like to drop by to say hello, as well as give you a 'thank you' for the barnstar. Initially, User:Sango123 redesigned it, and I've continued to add links and other various things to it. I see from your page that you, too, use your userpage as a reference. I recommend checking out Wetman's userpage if you want to see a very useful userpage. Cheers, The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 02:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. Oh and thanks for the link. I found a really useful template that I probably might not have found without it. Thanks!  T ennis  Dy N ami T e  (sign here) 22:50, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

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Esperanza
Would you like to see Esperanza return? Leave me a message if so G e  o. 08:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I don't really know whether or not I do anymore. There is a pervasive fad in taking a "bootcamp" attitude to what wikipedia contributors can do, and it seems toward the end that Esperanza tried to conform to this belief rather than defy it, as evident in the paradigm shift during Esperanza's overhaul as well as the community's deletion of the coffee lounge and most games on wikipedia. This is why I am hesitant to develop an opinion either way: what kind of Esperanza are we talking about here? FWIW, I don't believe that getting rid of silly perks ever did anything good. Personally, I never played any of the games (as I recall) but their presence made a difference. I suppose it's hard for me to explain, but sometimes the mere possibility or existence of something achieves much more than any active working process, which is what Esperanza did for me. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 22:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I am talking about the old Esperanza, sans bureaucracy G  e  o . 00:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

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GR romanization
I've responded on my own Talk page. Ndsg 11:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

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RfA thanks
Hey there Ikiroid! Just dropping by firstly to say thanks for your supportive comments at my recently successful RfA, much appreciated. If there's anything I can do to help out with, just let me know and I'll do my best.

I'm afraid I haven't been doing much on WP:WPW for a while, though it is often in the back of my mind to call by there I haven't managed to do so. One thing I've been slowly considering is a full expansion of Maya script, complete with some glyph icons I've been creating and trying to convert into svgs. I may call for your assistance/review when I get something workable, tho' at the rate things are going it will probably be a month or three yet. In the meantime, keep up the great work, and cheers!--cjllw | TALK  08:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

GR romanization article
Any more thoughts or comments on this from anyone else? I've added a couple of ideas on my Talk. NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 13:04, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello again. Not having heard from you for a couple of weeks, I've just contacted the two editors you mentioned on my Talk.  Cheers. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:54, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Nigel. I'm terribly sorry I haven't contacted you for so long, but my computer's acting brilliantly horrible, screeching and moaning, and the CPU is overclocking and overworking for no reason (which may be the source of the noises). I vacuumed out the inside of it and the noises have let up a bit, but it only lasts a few minutes before the screeching recommences. I'll try to get to a public computer, such as a library terminal, but it's a bit of a project to get there most of the time. Anyway, there is an editor whom I introduced to wikipedia, User:Clyde Miller, who may be able to help you (Clyde has brought one article up to FA status and another to GA). Of course, these articles are about video games, so the help may only be copyediting and such. I am in the process of finishing up building a new computer which will hopefully be ready for the internet, or else I'll resort to getting this one repaired. Regards, The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 23:12, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Please see Talk:Gwoyeu Romatzyh for an update. No contributions (yet) from either User:Ravedave or User:Linuxbeak.


 * BTW I've reformatted the Specifics of GR spelling section yet again. I felt that the prose was a little bit too dense, so I've created a couple of subsections, which I think make the navigation a bit easier: do you agree? --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:09, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * First off, I'd like to say that you've come a long way with the article. There hasn't been a lot of other editors working on this page (which is to be expected, to some degree, on such a specialized topic) but nevertheless the improvement has been steady, and it's all due to your perseverence. You've made an excellent choice by opening the article up to peer review&mdash;expect some activity in the next few days. Don't worry about Ravedave and Linuxbeak&mdash;we're lucky that we found at least one editor (Clyde Miller) who has the time to look at the topic. Don't expect other editors to always readily help out, they may be too busy or inexperienced about the topic. On that note, I've fond another editor, Budding Journalist, who may be interested in doing some copyedit work. I'll drop them a note about the article. Keep up the good work, you're doing awesome! The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 21:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your encouraging words on my Talk. I'll just lie low & wait for a few days, I think! --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 22:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

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League of Copyeditors
Dear Cleanup Taskforce member,

I noticed that you've listed yourself as a member who's interested in copy-editing. I'm a member of the League of Copyeditors, a project dedicated to managing the sizable backlog of articles needing a copy-edit. We're always looking for new members, and you'd make a great addition to the project! We've started a participation drive for the remainder of February. If you're interested, you can help clear the backlog by adopting the following goals each week:
 * Select an article to copy-edit from the backlog. After your copy-edit, list the article in the ready for final proofread section.
 * Select a different article to proofread from the ready for final proofread section.

Thanks, and happy editing! Budding Journalist 07:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, Budding Journalist. I read your invitation to me about the League of copyeditors and I must regretfully decline. I do support the direction of the project, but I have too much on my plate right now to take on another wikiproject. If it is any consolation, I'd be happy to be a sort of unofficial ally to the project (perhaps I'll make a few edits here and there). I'd also be happy to answer any questions you have (although you seem to be pretty wiki-savvy already!). Anyway, you're off to an awesome start here, and I hope you stick around for awhile, because the project needs more editors like you. Cheers, The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 19:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey, no problem! In the future, if you ever find yourself making copy-edits to an article as part of something else, feel free to list the article in our proofreading page to have one of our proofreaders take a look at it. We also accept copy-edit requests from anyone needing help, so keep us in mind. Budding Journalist 00:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Re:Portal:Language
I added a box on Portal talk:Language that lists you and me as the two people who maintain the portal. If you don't want to be on maintenance "officially," I'll remove your name. In any case, thanks for keeping it up so far. I'm sorry I haven't paid as much attention to it in awhile. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 06:04, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The box is an excellent idea. Showing that some people are already active may attract more. We will be in touch.--Michkalas 12:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

If you have time...
... and it sounds interesting to you, you could read the article on Leonard Orban, European Commissioner for Multilingualism. I do not know if the subject is of your taste. I have written the whole article on my own, from 5 lines to what it is today, and, probably it can be raised to FA status, but it certainly needs someone whose English is his/her mother tongue. So, if you like to, read it and make changes or remarks you feel are suitable in grammar, style, etc. But, please, if it is boring for you or you just don't have the time, don't feel obliged to do so just because I am asking you to. --Michkalas 01:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure, I'll look into it. I'm interested in anything that pertains to people and culture, so this topic does tickle my fancy a bit. I'm sorry I haven't responded sooner, I was away for most of Saturday and now I've come down with the flu, so I haven't spent much time on the wiki this weekend. I skimmed the page and it looks like you are only a hop, skip, and a jump away from promoting it to GA status&mdash;good job! Your tenacity and dedication really shows in the article's quality. Cheers, The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 18:05, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

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Thoth
In response to this question on the reference desk. There's no concensus on how ancient Egyptians pronounced their words as there's only recorded writing. However, you could add an IPA for the English prononciation. - Mgm|(talk) 11:24, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the Compliments!
I just noticed your compliments on my Poetry Corner talk page! I didn't expect anyone to be so kind as to read that stuff and actually say they like it ^_^. Wish you a nice Wikipedia week, and thanks again for the lovely words.¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 16:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

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GR rules of thumb
Please see Talk:Gwoyeu Romatzyh‎. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 16:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

WPW newsletter (self-addressed)
This is the project's first newsletter. If you have any questions, comments, or ideas about it, feel free to post it on WT:WPW. Thanks. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 23:14, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

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GR feedback
I've just had some feedback from User:Ravedave. Sounds pretty sensible, though I'm not sure about moving the Language learning further up. What do you think?

I've just been expanding the History section, so that may have changed by the time you look at it. Also added a section on Words as units. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

PS History now done. I'm still unsure about the lead, though. Can it really include nothing but a summary of the article? If so, that useful reminder about Chinese tones will have to go.

Lang learning & Modern times (is that heading OK??) probably should come before the nitty-gritty, as per 'dave's suggestion. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 12:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Please see Talk:Gwoyeu Romatzyh for an update. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 12:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I doubt whether I'm going to spend much more time on this, apart from perhaps adding a picture of Chao (currently being discussed over on WT:CHINA). As there's been no response to the GAC submission, is it worth going for FAC—or shall we just leave it? -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 18:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't lose hope&mdash;you've done a really great job on this. I have no doubt that this will get GA, and in its current state you could probably make it to FA. I realize that there hasn't been a large amount of editors doing work, but we must be glad for the few that have helped. To tell you the truth, I think other editors are intimidated by the article's title. ;-) Anyway, great job. I suspect the reason that it hasn't been assessed yet is because it last in a line of three articles in the language section of the GA nomination page. Between you, me, and the wall, it seems to have the best chance out of all three. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 19:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Update: Clyde Miller left me some advice after I requested some help. Apparently, it is perfectly normal to wait a truly long time to get your article rated. We need to get the articles in front of it in line rated. I can do the first one, but I've edited Romanization of Chinese recently, so I can't do it. Do you want to? The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 04:07, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

TfD closures
Just a reminder than when you close TfDs, you must put the closure template after the subsection header and not before. I know it can be confusing because all of the other deletion templates (except for categories) come before the subsection header and not after. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 07:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh...sorry. I've seen my method used in Mfds and AfDs, and since the tfd closure directions list nothing explicitly regarding template placement, I went along with it. I do agree with your reasoning though, and will start placing the templates below the header. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 18:02, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

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Re:Leonard Orban
Hey, I was reading over the article again and comparing it to other articles about EU commissioners. In terms of coverage, it's the best of its kind, but you may want to include an IPA transcription of his name's pronunciation. Anyway, this is probably my last edit for tonight; I'll try to look over the article in more detail tomorrow. Cheers, The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 03:55, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * An IPA transcription of his name's pronunciation is an excellent idea, but, though I have a basic kwoledge of IPA, I do not know how his name is exactly pronounced to transcribe it. --Michkalas 09:58, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I dropped a note on the language reference desk requesting some help with the transcription. Hopefully someone will bite. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 12:51, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: GA
Hi Clyde, thanks for helping out so far with this article's improvement. I know you've done a lot on the GA/FA scene (or at least quite a bit more than me), so would you be willing to find an editor who could assess this article? We have it up for GA status, and it's been awhile, and still nothing. If you could give me a good name to get the article that would be great. Thanks again. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 01:36, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Well as to waiting, there are two articles in front of it, and one has been waiting over a month. When I had a GAC, it was about 2 months before it was reviewed. I took the time to look in some of the GA languages, and I found some people. First, most of the GA languages suck. I'd consider doing a mass review of every article User:Mark Dingemanse made a GA (and tell him about the progress). Most never went through the review process, and he just promoted them on a whim (see Sudanic languages for an example).


 * However, of all the GAs I found, User:Gnangarra and User:CTSWyneken actually mentioned something about their review when they promoted their respective articles (both were a while ago, so keep that in mind). Finally, if you want a review faster, you and Nigel should review the two articles in front of Gwoyeu Romatzyh to make it move faster. You two are probably the best experts at GAC right now for languages.--Clyde (talk) 02:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. I'll contact those people after taking care of the other two candidates. Actually, I've already edited one of the other candidates, so I can't review that one! Perhaps another editor collaborating on GR could do that. Anyway, have a good one. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 03:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Rom of Chin
Re Romanization of Chinese: I'll see if I can summon up the energy! For starters, the 4 tones of ma in GR are: mha, ma, maa, mah (*mar doesn't occur). Perhaps you could edit that so that I don't disqualify myself as a GA assessor.

You have far more experience in rating articles than I do (in fact I have none). There are lots of things I'd do differently in this article—but that's not really the point, is it? It seems pretty listy to me; but most of the ground is covered.

OTOH Some of the points under Uses: Non-Chinese strike me as bizarre—especially this one:


 * "Making the syntactic structure of a Chinese language intelligible to those only familiar with Latin grammar."

The first point under Uses: Chinese is also clumsily & confusingly expressed, & seems to conflate (at least) 2 different points.

As for the missionary position systems, too much of a meal is made of Confucius: should be condensed.

The section on Hanyu Pinyin is again too listy.

But many of the sections (the ones you've worked on?) are excellent summaries.

Should a GA assessment point out all the shortcomings, or simply use the 5 criteria on the article as it stands? I await enlightnement. -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:14, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi again. Sorry about the late response. Regarding GA: don't promote it yet. I'm going to work on the issues you expressed. If you want, you can put out a more complete list on the article's talkpage. I looked over some of the other Language GAs, and a large amount of them appear to be poorly sourced, missing external links and pictures, and wanting in prosal quality. In other words, we need to reset the standard here, so criticism is welcome :-) The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 14:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Update: it got passed. Well, let's improve it anyway. After all, it's about the articles themselves, not their statuses. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 01:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

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GR: internal article links (IALs)
I notice that you removed a link from Gwoyeu Romatzyh. The sentence was:


 * This principle, illustrated in the extract below, was later adopted in Pinyin.

I had linked "extract" to the section (An example) containing some GR text. You cited the MOS as deprecating such links internal to an article, but I've been unable to find any reference to this being bad practice. Indeed, if you think about it, how are readers going to find the extract without a link? They'll have to either scroll down & hope for the best or go back up to the TOC, find & read the extract—& then realize they've lost their place in the process!

I can see no justification whatever for your assertion. The only point open to debate is whether you should make it clear that the link is an internal one by leaving the "#" in the link rather than piping. But in this particular case it's clear from the word "below" that the link is internal to the article. In general I prefer to avoid the hash sign on aesthetic grounds—unless there's a compelling reason for leaving it visible.

If you can cite chapter & verse about IALs, I am of course prepared to modify my dogmatic position! --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, I went through a variety of project namespace policy and guidelines and apparently I confused a variety of things. The policy of self linking calls for not linking an article to itself in order to bold itself in the introduction, as well as to avoid using external links which are mirrors of the article. I'm sorry. You were right to change it back. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 18:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No harm done. After reading the MOS, I'm not surprised you were confused! --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 18:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

GR passed GA
Thanks for all your efforts—not least in pointing me in the right direction.

I propose shortening some sections of the article, per User:Peripitus' comments. Then—why not?—trying for FA. At least we'd get a bit more feedback that way.

I'm not convinced that the new version of Gwoyu.png is an improvement, at least in the context in which it occurs (Gwoyeu Romatzyh). It seems to contradict the point that previous romanizations had split or hyphenated the syllables of compounds (I think the bottom one is Yale, isn't it?). The previous version had just Pinyin & GR, as far as I can remember, which is fine: could you perhaps make a different image with just those two, & use it instead for this article? --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 12:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

PS Bad linking on my part! I should have written Peripitus' comments. NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 12:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree; let's go for FA! We've got the momentum, so let's do it. On the topic of the image, I don't think either version is really appropriate for illustrating the concept. I could put a complete sentence into chinese, and have the GR form at the bottom&mdash;but what sentence should I write? Perhaps something like "I've written chinese at college" (我在学院写下过中文了, I believe, but I'm probably wrong). How does that sound? Feel free to pick a new sentence, I'm just flying by the seat of my pants here. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 02:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No, after reflection I'm sorry to say that I don't think the image does serve much purpose. After all, the principle is amply demonstrated in Gwoyeu Romatzyh.  My inclination would be to drop the image altogether.  Your excellent "tones of Guo" image at the top of the article must stay, of course. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. I looked over your example and I must say I am inclined to agree. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 18:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

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GR/Spelling in GR split
More or less done now, though the Spelling article needs a better intro, I think. If we go for FA, do both articles get reviewed? --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 12:05, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The section looks really nice now. To answer you question: no, we only need to review the main article, not any subpages (although it is encouraged to have the subpages neat and tidy, but we appear to have that covered). The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 12:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Good. Even so, I'd like to improve the Spelling article intro: I presume that even a subpage should in some sense have a summary in the lead.  Once that's done, shall I just go ahead & self-nominate for FAC? --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 15:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * We should put it through another peer review, even if only for formality's sake. FAC can be really harsh and much less forgiving than GAC, so any previous advice like peer review should be taken graciously. I'll set up the peer review. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 18:48, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I see we've had a review already & that you've acted on the recommendation—which looked pretty sensible & useful to me. Thanks for doing all that.

Funnily enough, an earlier reviewer wanted the Description moved further down, you may recall. But that was in the bad old days before we migrated all the tedious details to another article!

Let's see if we get any more reactions. Yes, I'm well aware of the savaging to expect at the FAC stage: I've seen some of the discussions. Let's just see how it goes! --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 22:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hopefully we'll get a more complete response than the last time (when your questions were left embarrassingly unanswered). Anyway, peer review is more backlogged than a cheap toilet, so we shouldn't take any lack of attention too personally. It's a blessing we've already gotten some feedback. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 22:23, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Good. It doesn't really matter much where the Compounds section goes (in fact it would stay where it is even if the structure were changed!).  But I'm inclined to agree with you that it merits a separate section—as it has throughout our editing.


 * I've now rewritten the Intro to Spelling in Gwoyeu Romatzyh‎. I think it now summarizes the article, more or less, but feel free to tidy it up if you want to. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 12:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It looks good. Actually, it could probably be GA as well. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 15:58, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Link to response from CBDunkerson (eom)
Hi CBD. I tried to add another class to the wsproj as "dab" (disambiguation), along with a category for it diff. For some reason, it isn't working. Can you see anything wrong? The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 01:19, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Your change was essentially correct and 'working', but you were likely having problems with capitalization. Both the switch that determines the class to display and the template call for the box indicating the class were case sensitive... one requiring 'dab' or 'd' and the other 'dab' or 'Dab'. 'DAB' and various other options would have failed both. I've changed the template to be case-insensitive, but also got rid of the 'd' option since it would require a Template:D-Class in addition to Template:Dab-Class. You can now use 'dab', 'Dab', 'DAB', 'dAb', or any other capitalization of those three letters. The page Talk:Hieroglyphs already has the 'dab' class set and is working. --CBD 11:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the fix! The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 16:00, 23 March 2007 (UTC)