User talk:Ilona Anders

May 2023
Hello, I'm Materialscientist. I noticed that you made a change to an article, AL-Automotive Lighting, but you didn't provide a source. I’ve removed it for now, but if you’d like to include a citation to a reliable source and re-add it, please do so! If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Materialscientist (talk) 11:24, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * hello Materialscientist, I am responsible for public relations within Marelli Automotive Lighting! Kindly accept my changes on this and other sites. The articles were created by unknown persons and due to the fact that they are no more valid, they are hazardous for our company.
 * Best,
 * Ilona Ilona Anders (talk) 12:38, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Please review Wikipedia's mandatory paid editing disclosure policy and make the appropriate public disclosures it requires. Also, since it is a conflict of interest to directly edit articles related to your employer, please learn the procedure of how to make edit requests on the article's talk page. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 12:50, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did with this edit to AL-Automotive Lighting. Your edits appear to be vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Repeated vandalism can result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. Materialscientist (talk) 11:51, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Listen, Material"scientist", the content refering to our company is wrong! Either you accept my changes - including removing the old, non-valid logo, or I will direct the matter to our legal department! Accusing me of vandalism is IMPUDENCE. You spread misinformation about OUR COMPANY! How do you feel if I called you a fakemaker? Ilona Anders (talk) 12:48, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * You have now made a legal threat which is not allowed on Wikipedia for any reason. Either retract your statement immediately or your Wikipedia account will be blocked. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 12:52, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Please do not add unsourced or original content. Doing so violates Wikipedia's verifiability policy. If you continue to do so, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Materialscientist (talk) 12:01, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

 You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for making legal threats or taking legal action. You are not allowed to edit Wikipedia while the threats stand or the legal action is unresolved. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text at the bottom of your talk page:. 331dot (talk) 13:01, 2 May 2023 (UTC) We cannot stop you from using the courts of your country if you wish, but you cannot make legal threats on Wikipedia, nor can you edit if you have a legal action underway. You can pursue your grievances in the courts or on Wikipedia using Wikipedia processes, but not both. To be unblocked, you must unequivocally withdraw the legal threat. 331dot (talk) 13:04, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I of course withdraw the legal „threat“. By the way, are you not ashamed? I wanted to correct the wrong information! And what did you do? Accuse me of vandalism! Just think of it. It is in the interest of Wikipedia that the information given there is right. Don’t you think so? 2A02:3038:609:19C7:35A2:1CD3:E6B1:3499 (talk) 13:14, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * You must follow the instructions above to make an unblock request. I haven't accused you of anything. There are proper ways for those in your position to request corrections, see WP:ER. 331dot (talk) 13:22, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

You will also need to declare as a paid editor, a Terms of Use requirement. 331dot (talk) 13:05, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * What? Some unserious people wrote wrong information about our company for free. And you want me to pay for correcting them? 2A02:3038:609:19C7:35A2:1CD3:E6B1:3499 (talk) 13:16, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I assume you are this user, remember to log in. You are confused, I am not asking for payment, I am asking that you declare as a paid editor, since you are editing as part of your job duties. This is a legal requirement and not negotiable. See this page. 331dot (talk) 13:18, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * yes I am totally confused! Honestly, I feel like i am in a wrong movie. Talking to people who don’t even say their names and not knowing if I even talk to a person or a bot. Just accept my edits, let me remove the old logo and some old and unnecessary information and that’s it. Tomorrow. Now I am fed up with Wikipedia. 2A02:3038:609:19C7:35A2:1CD3:E6B1:3499 (talk) 13:22, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * You must log in, so we know it's you. We are not bots, we are humans. Please see my response above. 331dot (talk) 13:26, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Where? I am getting your messages on my email. 2003:DE:F704:1D00:432:55F5:5B22:FD6F (talk) 15:08, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a collaborative project. Any editor acting in in good faith (which we assume unless proven otherwise) can edit any article at any time. This also means that the subject of an article (be it a person, company or organization) has no right of ownership or control over an article's contents. You cannot barge in here, demanding that your edits be accepted and responding with hostility if they are challenged. Civil behaviour and rational discussion isn't just courteous here, it's required by policy.

Every article on Wikipedia has an associated talk page, where changes can be discussed if there is a potential for challenge. In this case, it is located at Talk:AL-Automotive Lighting. This is where an editor with a conflict of interest, like yourself, should engage with other users by making an edit request. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 14:19, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I don‘t want to discuss with people. You quote here: any editor […] can edit any article at any time. I didn’t show any hostility to you until one of your people accused me of vandalism! We are talking about an article referring to my company. I don’t want to lead discussions, I just want to correct and update the information which is old and no more correct. You are the ones acting hostile and even against your own rules. See your text above. 2003:DE:F704:1D00:432:55F5:5B22:FD6F (talk) 15:07, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Notice that your signature is an IP address. You need to log in to your account, so your edits are properly atrributed to you. 331dot (talk) 15:13, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I think now I logged in. What’s next? So, it‘s just me myself and I. Will you now accept my changes? Believe me, unlike all the people who published texts about our company on your platform, I am within Marelli Automotive Lighting (Automotive Lighting) one of very few people who are indeed allowed to do that. So I would appreciate your help. Sorry if the one or other changing attempt looked to you like vandalism. You really hit me with this accusation. I didn’t read my private emails so I didn’t even notice that you texted me and I just tried again and again as I thought I must have done a mistake which was why my changes were still not conducted. As you can see, that was my very first try on Wikipedia. Anyway, I think we both have other stuff to do than arguing about nonsense. If you don’t agree with my changes, I kindly ask you to delete the articles in English, French, Spanish and Italian. The way they are now, they are just embarrassing and hazardous for our company. If you give me any real email address, I will send to you an official email from company network. All the chat now goes through my private account because the company network would regard this type of conversation as spam. So, once you see how confusing it is to me, you would do best helping me. I would appreciate that. Thanks, Ilona Ilona Anders (talk) 15:33, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * First, I will say that we can only help you with the English Wikipedia. Each language Wikipedia is a separate project, with their own editors and policies.  You will have to communicate on those projects regarding articles about your company there.
 * Please read this list of common questions by company representatives about Wikipedia. A company does not solely get to determine if Wikipedia has an article about it or not, or limit an article to postive coverage of the company. Companies do not own the articles about them. For example, Microsoft does not get to say "we don't want an article, take it down please". This is because Wikipedia primarily summarizes what publicly available independent reliable sources say about a topic. Wikipedia content is guided by our policies. If a company representative wants to argue that their company does not meet our definition of a notable company and the article about them should be deleted on those grounds, that is possible to do.
 * Please read about conflict of interest. Generally, the subject of an article should not directly edit about it.  For example, Olaf Scholz should not edit the article about him. However, this does not mean that the subject can't offer suggestions for changes. All articles have an associated talk page intended for discussion related to the article.  In your company's case, that is at Talk:AL-Automotive Lighting.  That's the place for you to offer changes to the article about your company.  If you mark the proposal as a formal edit request(click for instructions), it will be acted on by a volunteer editor who will evaulate your request.
 * I didn't mean to confuse you earlier. Wikipedia does not charge payment for any services.  I was saying that since you are editing as part of your job duties, that the Terms of Use require you to declare as a paid editor.  Please see this page for instructions.
 * I will remove the block if you do the following:
 * clearly withdraw any and all legal threats
 * agree to declare as a paid editor
 * agree to propose changes to the article about your company as edit requests 331dot (talk) 15:53, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree on 1 2 3, though I finished working (where I am paid) two and a half hours ago. I would really appreciate your help with English. Will try the „talk“ tomorrow. Thanks
 * Ilona Ilona Anders (talk) 16:43, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * If you are not interested in collaboration and discussion, you will not be unblocked. This website is built on those qualities. You were not "accused of vandalism". It was said that "Your edits appear to be vandalism and have been reverted or removed". If it wasn't vandalism, okay. No problem. There is no need for hostility, and we want to work with you if you want to work with us. You must, however, do things in the proper manner.  If you don't know what that is, we can tell you(and already have to a small degree). 331dot (talk) 15:15, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I think you only understand what you want to understand. „Any user is allowed to edit any article.“ Your words. But you don’t allow me to edit, I must discuss? Why? Ilona Anders (talk) 15:43, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't say that, another user did. That statement does not mean literally that anyone may edit anything at any time and does not need to discuss their edits if challenged. This is a collaborative project where communication is required and if your edits are challenged, you need to discuss them. I am writing a reply to your above comment, it will take a moment. 331dot (talk) 15:45, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Removed
I have now removed the block. Please first read WP:PAID and make the required disclosure on your user page, User:Ilona Anders. If you haven't already, please read about conflict of interest. Please read about how to make edit requests. When you have done so, you may then visit Talk:AL-Automotive Lighting and make an edit request proposing changes you feel are needed to the article about your company. Ideally, the article should summarize what independent reliable sources choose to say about the company, but primary sourced information is acceptable in some circumstances.

If you feel that your company does not meet our definition of a notable company and want to pursue deleting the article, that is a bit more complicated process that I would be willing to help you start(but I cannot guarantee any particular result). 331dot (talk) 19:44, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you for deblocking. I will try to proceed the way you explain though it seems more complicated then just making changes in the article. There is no conflict of interest: Be sure - I am not changing things because I want to make a positive advertising for my company and don’t like the given information. I am trying to change things that are no more valid and wrong - numbers, names, logo, history that goes on and didn’t stop in 2009. A lot has changed and it is also in the interest of Wikipedia that the information spread there is updated and right. Ilona Anders (talk) 07:44, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * A conflict of interest does not just involve advertising or a positive image- it's about the appearance of influence that might impact neutral point of view. 331dot (talk) 07:52, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry about taking so much of your time but please invest this time to carefully read my explanation below because some things are really confusing. I will on my side invest my time to dive into Wikipedia rules. However please trust me: the changes I am trying to make are absolutely neutral. Please compare with our website. By the way, the web address has also changed over the years. So that whoever goes to old Al-lighting.com will land nowhere. Which is why I wanted to correct the website address. The authors of the old articles might even be grateful for my help.
 * I tried to update the logo - because the old logo is no more in use, it didn’t work, removing was the next try, just because it is no more valid, it didn’t work. I tried to continue the history as we didn’t stop in 2009, we are (for example) no more Magneti Marelli. Magneti Marelli doesn’t exist any more. Except for Aftermarket BU though the business unit will now have a different name. As for the rest, in 2019, after the merger with Japanese CK the name of both partner companies is just Marelli. Mr. Razelli or Mr. Ferrari are long retired. But on some pages they are still named as Key persons. Also the number of employees has changed and so on. So, you see, though I am employee of the company, I am not making any advertising. It’s ONLY correcting old, non-valid information. Really. See our website www.Marelli.com from there you will get to our division: Automotive Lighting & Sensing. After the mentioned merger, the name of our legal entities is still Marelli Automotive Lighting (+ an country specific additive like Reutlingen (Germany) GmbH) but at the same time, internally we are one of 9 Marelli divisions and call ourselves within the company, Automotive Lighting & Sensing division. So if you click on there, and then on „click on this link“ you will get to our previous page (before merger) which was Al.world. There you will see that all I say is true - and all my changes are in fact in the interest of your free Encyclopedia. Thanks
 * Ilona Ilona Anders (talk) 08:34, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Disclosures
One last comment - although there are slight differences in policies between the various language versions of Wikipedia, disclosure of paid editing is universal across all of them. You will have to disclose your employment on all Wikipedias where you have edited about your company. I have left a message for you on your talk page at German Wikipedia; you will also have to make the same disclosures on Spanish and Italian Wikipedias in those languages respectively. Listed below are the language-specific pages regarding conflicts of interest:


 * German Wikipedia - de:Wikipedia:Interessenkonflikt
 * Spanish Wikipedia - es:Wikipedia:Conflicto de interés
 * Italian Wikipedia - it:Wikipedia:Conflitto di interessi

--Drm310 🍁 (talk) 20:38, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the links. I checked them but they are not very helpful. Though they deliver a lot of information, I see no field where I type in my information to make anyone verify my identity - as employee of Marelli Automotive Lighting… i can give you my company email address but I am not sure if the message will not be blocked regarded as a spam… the company network has a lot of blockers… sorry. Well, I will keep trying your way but if you see any easier way of accepting my change requests, please let me just do… thanks, Ilona Ilona Anders (talk) 07:58, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * We (and the other Wikipedias) don't need to you verify your identity, we just need to you state that per the Terms of Use you are declaring as a paid editor due to your status as an employee. All this requires is a statement from you. I can only speak for this Wikipedia, but instructions to do so here are provided at WP:PAID.  If you find it too complex(you would not be the only one), you may just write a statement on your user page to the effect of "I am Ilona Anders and I am employed by AL Automotive Lighting in public relations, and will be propsing edits about the company". 331dot (talk) 08:04, 3 May 2023 (UTC)