User talk:Ilyanep/Talk Archive 1

Welcome to Wikipedia!
Hello there, welcome to the 'pedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you need pointers on how we title pages visit Naming conventions or how to format them visit our manual of style. If you have any other questions about the project then check out Help or add a question to the Village pump. Cheers! --maveric149

Thanks a lot! Ilyanep -

No Talk edits
Nobody seems to be commenting on or talking to me...I have no need to archive, but I'm lonely! :( -- ilyanep 21:48 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * oh ! Say, I just picked up a beer. I'll drink it thinking of you. You know, sometimes your talk page fills up with good thoughts, sometimes it fills up with acrimony. user:anthere


 * Lol, I don't care, I want it to fill up! :) Ok, maybe I do care :) -- ilyanep 21:48 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Sysop Request
I have recently requested Sysop status, see Requests for adminship for more details. -- ilyanep 21:48 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Wiki Codes
IF anyone can find me a list or help with the variables such as so I can place stuff easier, please tell me, or post here -- ilyanep 21:48 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Sysop Disputes
Note from Ilyanep: This is a reply to This mailing list post

Regular users can solve edit disputes by the expedient of editing articles and talking to the parties in question. Personally, I prefer not to protect pages in such circumstances: let them exhaust each other in revert wars, and then both sides are more likely to start thinking about compromise. But then, I have sadistic tendencies... ;-) Martin


 * Well, I was trying to make a case of why I want to be admin...I mean if they're reverting for a whole week straight...IT's really hard to have any information there. Actually, it's when you get people commenting on your talk page is when you know you've been here enough to be a regular member :). ilyanep 21:47 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Which is another aid. People normally get in edit wars because they care deeply about some subject. When they realise they're polluting the page history of a subject they care deeply about, and stopping other people from working on it, they normally start to work things out. But hey, maybe I'm just an incurable optimist! :) Martin


 * Well, I could be an incurable pessimist :) -- ilyanep 22:09 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Sysop Status!
Congratulations, you have just been made a sysop! You have volunteered for boring housekeeping activities which normal users sadly cannot participate in. Sysops basically can't do anything: They cannot delete pages arbitarily (only obvious junk like "jklasdfl,öasdf JOSH IS GAY"), they cannot protect pages in an edit war they are involved in, they cannot ban signed in users. What they can do is delete junk as it appears, ban anonymous vandals, remove pages that have been listed on Votes for deletion for more than a week, protect pages when asked to, and help keep the few protected pages there are, among them the precious Main Page, up to date.

Note that almost everything you can do can be undone, so don't be too worried about making mistakes. You will find more information at Administrators, please take a look before experimenting with your new powers. Drop me a message if there are any questions or if you want to stop being a sysop (could it be?). Have fun! --Eloquence 23:04 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Thank you very very much :) -- ilyanep 23:08 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Main Page Edit
Note from Ilyanep: This is a reply to a message I posted on Notheruser's Talk page which read:

"Notheruser, I'm wondering what you meant by 'rm torvalds; definitely not a household name' in your edit on the Main PAge. I'm sorry if I'm new at this...I read the article about editing the front page, and don't get a lot of it. I'm wondering if you can explain to me what was wrong with having Torvalds as a link there. ilyanep 23:47 17 Jun 2003 (UTC) PS: I reccomend archiving"

Hello (I was just about to tell you why I removed it when you asked :). A few things to keep in mind about the front page: make sure the "selected articles" section displays fine on an 800x600 display (mainly, no extra line breaks), make sure the article is more than a stub before listing it, and, for the "in the news" section, make sure it's "headline" news (think cnn front page). Oh yeah, one other thing, add new items to the front not the back. Well, I think that about covers it. Regards. -- Notheruser 23:55 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * OH, well thanks for the explaination...I hope I can do better later on. ilyanep 23:59 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Clarification
I thought I should keep this for archive purposes: ilyanep 00:29 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)

"Eloquence: about the message you posted on my talk page about becoming a sysop, what did you mean by "you can protect pages when asked to". Asked to by whom, I ask? (lol, that sounds weird). Please respond on My User Talk Page. ilyanep 00:06 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)" See two things above about becoming admin


 * "Sorry, no extras :-). See Protected page for details on when to protect pages. Specifically, if another user asks you to help in an edit war, you can use your own judgment on whether you want to protect the page to enforce a "cool down" period. This should be sparingly used, because this is a wiki after all -- pages should remain as editable as possible. --Eloquence 00:09 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)"

Main Page Edit
Yee-haw! MY first successful non-reverted Main page edit! ilyanep 15:49 18 Jun 2003 (UTC) Break out the...grape juice (Lol, not old enough to drink champaine :)

Accidental Image Revert (Image:tux.jpg)
Heh. OK, what you need to know is that clicking rev changes the image to the version alongside. So click on the dated link first to see what you're reverting to, then you can click the "rev" next to it. Evercat 23:34 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Alright, sorry. ilyanep 23:35 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * That's OK, I think I did that myself once. It's totally dodgy because the revert link is where the diff link would be in a normal page history... :-) Evercat 23:56 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * That's really mostly the reason that I did that. ilyanep 23:59 18 Jun 2003 (UTC)

"I'm a banana"?
Who said, I'm a banana? Is it an original quote of your own? Deb 21:36 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Yeah, Me, I guess :) Ilyanep 01:00 26 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Really, an inexplicable gaff from 2 years ago (5th grade) and my friend picked it up and had me saying it every other word until about last year). Ilyanep 23:45, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Hi, there
hello i guess i am somebody so hello how are you going? G Prime 04:18 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * Hello, I guess I am me, so hello, I'm very fine thank you :) Ilyanep 15:10 7 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Golden Retrievers
Hello. You were offering &psi;4 at WikiMoney for a page about Golden retrievers. An anonymous user had made a stub and I expanded it, so if it's ok with you, I've moved &psi;2 for from your account and Anon is welcome to the other 2 if they ever find the WikiMoney page. Angela 02:35, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)


 * That's ok, thanks! Ilyanep 13:25, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Back
Hey! I'm back from solitary confinement/forgetting about wikipedia ;)! Feel free to message me! Ilyanep 13:25, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Metawiki Userpage
Hi Ilyanep. I redirected your page on Meta for you. If you ever want to edit it and remove the redirect you'll have to use this link. Angela 21:44, 8 Sep 2003 (UTC)


 * HEY! Thanks a lot! Ilyanep 14:58, 16 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Protected Subpages
I unprotected User:Ilyanep/Article_1, User:Ilyanep/Info, sUser:Ilyanep - assuming accidental/old vandal/etc. If deliberate, please re-protect and drop a quick line of explanation on protected page and/or on the page itself. Thanks. Martin 18:05, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC)


 * Sorry for no explaination, I did that to keep people from editing some stuff I posted and wanted to stay stationary. Ilyanep 15:46, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Back again
HEY! I'm back again! Hopefully with no 'break periods' Ilyanep 15:46, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC) :)

---

Bluebells
Made a disambiguation page for bluebell Secretlondon 20:42, Jan 25, 2004 (UTC)


 * Feel free to take those Wikis. Ilyanep 20:52, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Some facts added to English bluebell as well. Hope this helps. Secretlondon 20:55, Jan 25, 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks a lot! Ilyanep 21:01, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Bored
I'm writing notes to myself because nobody writes me any. Ilyanep 02:12, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

For archive Purposes

Joseph Stalin
Hello, 172, I just wanted to talk to you about the part you removed from the Joseph Stalin article and stated it was 'someone's personal comments'. I personally feel that, although it was written in POV, those comments should somehow be incorporated into The article. Ilyanep 02:46, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I revert bullshit, that's why. Take courses on comparative history, comparative politics, and research methods in history and leave me alone with this crap. What are your sources? What is the basis for comparison? What's the criteria being used for murder? When and where? Who? And so the list goes on.... 172 02:54, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I must say that it is a well-known fact that millions of people died under (directly or indirectly) Stalin's order for being an enemy of the state or otherwise for virtually no reason in prison cells and executions. If you are a communist, it doesn't mean Wikipedia must be. I posted a very nice question on your talk page and you reply with a backlash and flaming. Ilyanep 02:57, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * No, I am a historian and I want data and sources, not your bullshit and opinion. Your sentence is meaningless and you do not know how to write history. You need to come up with references, criteria for "murder," and a basis for comparison. 172 03:05, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * First of all, that was not my sentence. Second of all, I do not appreciate being called infantile, being accused of writing "bullshit" etc. Please be a bit nicer, or I might just provoke you more by reverting the comment. Ilyanep 03:11, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Your feelings and my feelings are irrelevant. The quality of the ariticles is the only thing that matters. If you were taking a course on history in an academic setting and you responded to a professor asking for sources and criteria for comparison with your comment ("If you are a communist, it doesn't mean Wikipedia must be"), you might be immediately removed from the class, failed, and subject to disciplinary action. 172 03:20, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree my comment was a bit too agravated, and I do admit that my historical knowledge may not be as great as yours, but I do not appreciate being bashed and flamed when I submit a simple message to your talk page. Ilyanep 03:25, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * I am the one who added the comment in the first place. In response to 172's criticism, I have included sources (to Robert Conquest) and a link to the Gulag. As the Red Terror and mass murder of kulaks is a key feature of Stalin's reign, I believe it deserves to be treated in the introductory sentence. Hitler's wikipedia page does not include a sentence up front about his revitalization of German industry, as while that was an important feature of his rule, it was not the central feature of the Third Reich - the Holocaust and World War 2 was. A mention of Stalin's industrialization of Russia without a mention of the Gulag which enabled it is not appropriate. godless 05:31, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * Thank You. Ilyanep 21:53, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)

-

172
I'm pasting this text in from Conflicts between users to show how he acts. (Note: 172 has now claimed to have left Wikipedia).

User:172 seems to have had a severe problem of wikiquette in dealing with me. I posted a nice post to his/her talk page, and recieve a backlash (flaming) on my own. Then he clears the messages off his talk page with the summary 'clearing my page of infantile idocy'. Even if I am totally clueless on the topic of Joseph Stalin it is no reason to call me infantile and implying that I support "Bullshit" comments. Ilyanep 03:07, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * You also seem to like twisting things. I asked you for sources and a basis for comparison, and then you respond with an ad hominem attack, rather than admitting that you are a non-expert (prone to mess up) when it comes to writing for history. 172 03:14, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * I do admit I am somewhat clueless, but that does not mean you should call me infantile and as writing "bullshit", that is my only big objection.Ilyanep 03:22, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * You're not alone in being dumped on by 172, he habitually belittles anybody who disagrees with him, especially if he thinks he knows more than the other person. He mass-deletes material in articles without discussing it first or citing sources, then turns around and insists that other people justify their edits, repeatedly reverting until people get tired of it and go away. Check out his user contributions list, it's very illuminating. I've found him impossible to work with, and have moved on to other areas. Stan 05:19, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * I was the one who initially changed the Stalin page to include prominent mention of the 20 million dead and the Gulag. In response to 172's criticism I have included sources (links to wikipedia accounts of Robert Conquest and the Gulag). godless 05:30, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, here we go again. I'm used to getting glib, knee-jerk "you hurt my feelings" reactions to my comments. I have a lot of critics who disregard the complexities of history, personalizing it and viewing it in a static fashion. By now, I expect to be attacked by people whose reality has been largely formed thorough a narrow, highly ideological frame of reference. It's fairly telling, however, that a get along very well with the handful of contributors who are also professional academics in the fields of history and the social sciences. I disagree with some very often with respect to content, presentation, and emphases, but the conversations are always amicable when I am pitted against someone with serious objections to my work. BTW, I can provide anyone with mountains of sources for anything that I post if asked. And I often do. 172 06:56, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * If someone self-identifies as an academic professional, yes, you're polite and deferential - almost tempts me to create a sock puppet with a fake academic resume just to prove my point. But non-academics, or more accurately the editors who do not identify themselves as academics, who disagree with you, politely or not, get the rude and condescending treatment, and more importantly, you revert their material without discussion, cited or no, as witness and  the latter being especially ironic since you're demanding justifications, but the original material didn't cite a single source, in either the article or talk page. Stan 08:28, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * To be honest, it didn't matter that he pulled Conquest's name out of his ass and added it to his little sentence. The problem was the word "murder," which is used in such a matter to be all but meaningless. Even if he claims that Conquest is a source, the sentence is too vague to belong in an article. 172 03:13, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * And BTW, I can get along with anyone who knows what he/she is talking about and knows how to avoid sweeping generalizations. I first started working with user:Jiang, for example, when he was still in high school, and I have had considerable disagreements with him. But he is always able to marshall his evidence well (sometimes better than I can), and I will speak to him with the same measure of respect that I show Adam, Jtdirl, and others. But I can't say the same for others, who insist on just spewing their personal opinions and reductionisms. 172 03:35, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * MURDER, ahem: Murder is what it is. He killed millions of people for being 'enemies of the regime' when they might've doon nothing or said a simple sentence, similar to Hitler's treatment of Jews during the holocaust. As said in the comments below, I'd like you to calmly and I mean Calmly tell me why you are whitewashing Stalin's record even when a source (in fact, If I really looked I could provide you with probably 20 sources) has been presented to you as per your asking. Ilyanep 23:08, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * It didn't matter that I cited Conquest? Then why did you ask for sources in the first place? The millions killed by Stalin's regime have been documented by *many* authors. I could go into chapter and verse in the rest of the bio (as I will later), but for the opening sentence there should be a reference to the millions dead. The way you prefer to phrase it - "Sure, Stalin committed mass purges *but* he made Russia industrialized" - is a clear attempt to minimize the death toll and make it seem as if the ends justified the means. That wouldn't stand in a Hitler intro - there is no mention of Hitler's industrialization of Germany, as his reputation is based on WW2 and the Holocaust rather than the revitalization of Germany after WW1. Bottom line - Chris O came up with a different formulation which is far better from a NPOV standpoint. Also, it's worth asking - are you a communist? Why are you trying to whitewash Stalin's record? godless 04:48, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * You'll find that 172 has a fondness for dictators of all stripes, especially if they're known for killing masses of people. RickK 04:54, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Knock it off. I am just trying to keep the focus on serious history rather than a lot of mindless opinion. See my comments on the Lukashenko page. 172 09:42, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

User:172 has now seemed to have left. One who could not stand being challenged with honest fact and sources... Ilyanep 23:14, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Looks like 172 was somewhat of a whitewasher.

-

Vandalist Confusion
You wrote: ''First IP is a dutch company, Second is Sweedish, Third is Belgian. In any case, they are all foreign, which makes it highly likely that they are all the same. Ilyanep'' Uh ? You americans have strange brains. It would never occur to me that I'm swedish thanks to the mere fact that I'm not american ;-) (And no, no, no, I'm not the vandal you wrote about, even though I'm Belgian.) --FvdP 23:34, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * I meant that the IP blocks were owned by companies from those countries. First of all, they are all European. Second of all, spammers and people who have such dynamic ip adresses don't usually own American or British (etc.) IP adresses, they are usually minor (no offense) European countries. Besides, don't Sweeden and Dutch have languages from the same branch of the language tree? Third of all, even though I'm hailing from the US, I'm Russian, thank you very much! Ilyanep 23:40, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * don't Sweeden and Dutch have languages from the same branch of the language tree ? Yes, the very same branch were english lies ;-) (and this proves nothing anyway. The vandal could as well be chinese, for what we know). I can actually hardly believe an "ordinary" vandal can so easily use IPs from varying countries (regardless of whether these countries are "european"). The fact that all these countries are in Europe proves nothing. In general, the IP varies only within a single Internet provider, whose business generally don't span countries. As far as I know. The similitude between the vandalism is much more significative. --FvdP 23:53, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, following your point. Any person can find a way to use any IP, just has to hack into it. I could be German for all anyone knows. But...aww...whatever. It doesn't matter, it is obvious that they are probably the same. I'm just nicely going to count to ten (...) then stop this...Sorry if I caused you any Emotional Distress. Ilyanep 23:56, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think I'll have to count to 10 too. Sorry myself for the Emotional Distress I may have caused you. (If that guy is hacking IPs, he's definitely not our average vandal. Maybe he can "innocently" get IP that span several countries after all.) --FvdP 00:04, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * Dunno, Requires a larger amount of knowledge on IP's than I have. Ilyanep 01:04, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)