User talk:Indon/Archive2

Talk Archived
08:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikiholiday
Nah, well, I just keep thinking about the project (Indo project), though I have 2 real life projects, hahahah. The main problem is just, umm, I don't have an article that I interested in, but when I found that article, surely I could break the wall. ahahah. Oh well, I reckon the Education in Indonesia is not very popular, isn't it? Although a stupid head had vandalised it. Hey, that Toraja is TOTALLY AWESOME!! I'll give you a barnstar for that, :) So, what are you up to? On Wiki and real life. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  12:15, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Toraja talk page
Ahahahahha, but it looks nice though. Probably you should list it for WP:GTC, WP:PR and WP:FTC (Featured talk). But seriously, the article has improved a lot, really good job. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  20:24, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Re:Salam kenal
Thanx for inviting me. I'll try to contribute to the project, but I can't 24/7, 'coz I am also sysop on Indonesian Wikipedia :) wic 2020 talk bicara 02:01, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

News and notices section
Hi there how are you? Could you talk a look at WP:INA and tell me what you think. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  11:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot
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link to Persian
Hello, when you want to link to the article about something Persian, please do not link to Persian, as that is a disambiguation page (which nothing should be linked to). Instead link to the one of the options found on that page such as Persian people, Persian language, or Iran, by writing out Persian or Persian. Regards, Jeff3000 06:11, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

INA template
Ahh, why didn't I think about it. So when we change the entry, the template on people's userpage will also change. Brilliant idea. Go for it, do you want to do it or I'll do it? Or you need help with something? Cheers -- I   mo   eng  09:02, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I've made Template:WikiProjectIndonesiaTasks. And I also have changed it a "little" bit, ahahah. Please take a look. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  09:42, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Looking good, Indon. About the position, I just thought the beginning of the page should be like, umm, introduction to the page while the template is for us, participants. In case of that, I've made a link "See the news", maybe we should make it bigger, with 7 different colours, ahahaha. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  10:19, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Nice picture!!
Hey how are you going? Did you choose that picture for the Indonesian portal? If yes, that is really a GREAT picture, well searched! Cheers -- I   mo   eng  12:04, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Tourism in Indonesia
Hi again, how are you? Sorry to disturb you everyday, ehehehe. Can I ask you a favor? Could you just make one sentence, for the first sentence of Tourism in Indonesia article. But make sure you start with Tourism in Indonesia blablabla. Can you do that? I have no idea about what should I write. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  09:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes Indon, I mean the lead section. And thanks for letting me know that I'm not disturbing you. hehehe, Cheers -- I   mo   eng  10:26, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That is really good and I can see you've gathered the info from the whole article, excellent. However, I saw some serious statements that need extra citations. Those are
 * Luxurious beach resorts and hotels were developed in some Indonesia islands, with Bali island as the primary destination
 * This condition is also worsened by the fierce competitions from neighbouring countries, which have different attractions. Those are the shopping tourism in Singapore, tropical forests in Thailand, and wild adventure in Australia.
 * I reckon I haven't seen that before, or its just my mistake. Its great though. Oh yeah, if you don't have anything to do, could you help me fixing citations for Indonesia? Apparently all of my notes format are wrong :( by looking at Dinosaur and WP:CITE/ES. I've reached the 25th notes out of 74, which is, umm, theres LOADS of work to do. Oh well, if you want to help me, please start from the bottom. Zillion thanks -- I   mo   eng  11:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

That is very true. I've been considering about that, to be honest. However, then the edit page seems very loooooooooooooooooooooooooong, ahahahah. Oh well, it worth trying, and I think it'll work. Thanks for the suggestion! I  mo   eng  12:32, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Very well, I shall start tomorrow, cause I'm very tired right now. Btw, I'll have exam next monday, so, now, seriously, I cannot edit starting Saturday. Ahahahah, wish me luck alright? Good night from Melbourne! Cheers -- I   mo   eng  12:40, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: Portal:Indonesia/News
Hi Indon. In general, I've implemented the format utilised by the In the news section on the Main Page. This format is already followed by Portal:Australia, Portal:New Zealand, Portal:Oceania, Portal:United States and others. The news stories featured in Portal:Indonesia/Indonesia news are meant to be verifiable through corresponding entries on Portal:Current events/Southeast Asia. Happy editing, --cj | talk 10:12, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Indonesia news
Hey Indon, how are you? This is probably my last entry for the next fortnight. So, I usually put the news on Indonesian portal to the South Asian portal news, just like I told you before. Based on my understanding about his message, we should follow the news on the South Asian portal. So, I think this is pretty strange cause I used to update news on the South Asian portal based on Indonesian portal. The guys there supported me as well to do that. Maybe I was (and am) wrong. Hope things get sorted out. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  12:47, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Indonesia portal news
(I've copied this over from Imoeng's talk, as it looks like you might be updating the portal at the moment):

The image of the epaulette shark, Image:Epauletteshark.gif, that you have in the news on the Indonesia portal is a copyvio and is likely to soon be removed‎. Just thought I'd warn you so you don't get a redlink. Cheers, Yomangani talk 10:52, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Nidji
Can you created article of Nidji, they are popular band from Indonesia, the article of them have an indo wiki,thanks if you have created them in english wikipedia. U can translate the article of them from indo wiki. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.124.86.25 (talk • contribs)
 * To 222.124.86.25: I'm not keen on writing an article about a band. I prefer to develop a more encyclopedic nature of article, like culture, ethnic groups, etc., that are still lack here. So, how about if you do the translation and I'll watch about it, check its grammar and its style with the accordance of WP:MOS? By the way, what if you make an account here? Then we have a bunch of tasks to do about Indonesia-related articles in the WP:INA project. Cheers. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 16:55, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Onion dome
I was looking at Onion dome for a GA review, but noticed you were there first. I've made a couple minor fixes, as one does, (fix tag on the picture, fix a typo or two, find name in Cyrillic because I couldn't see fit to pass it with that big tag saying something was missing...) but would rather defer to you. Adam Cuerden talk 05:09, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

It is a rather nice little article, isn't it? And a nice surprise to have something like that grow out of a vote for deletion on some website of the same name as the structure.

Sadly, though, I can only pronunce Cyrillic - I know more-or-less what the letters mean, but don't know very much Russian. It's enough to sometimes let me figure things out from context - for example, when I was editing Mazeppa (opera), I could use the formatting of a libretto and knowing the names of characters, the standard formatting, italics indicating stage directions, having seen the opera and such guide me to being able to check the libretto justified statements, but I'd be useless checking unstructured documents I didn't already know a bit about. It's useful, but not useful enough. Adam Cuerden talk 09:51, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi there
Hi I'm back, how are you? So, I noticed Tourism in Indonesia has also failed GA. Could you tell me what people have done to fix it? So I can do the work on another issue. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  03:50, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * And it seems people are making issues about the portal news, could you tell me about it? About the article, I reckon we should ask Merbabu or other guys who have English as their first language. However, I do not agree with the promotional thing, since we have included citations for the sentences that may have promotional aspect, moreover, the citations came from reliable source (not promotional). But of course I will improve it cause I have ONE WEEK HOLIDAY!!! Hahahahaha. Okay, cheers -- I   mo   eng  08:40, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Indonesia news
I've reverted your edit because there is now a source in the "South East Asia" portal. Robin.rueth 05:10, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Perl 6
Your feedback on Talk:Perl 6 is somewhat confusing, and I'm not sure that I understood it all. I've responded as best I can, and I will work on the items that it was possible to turn into specific courses of action. For the rest, please feel free to explain further. -Harmil 18:02, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

WP:INA
hi there, thanks for the invite. frankly not sure how much time committment it requires. But I'd be willing to help out as my time permits. don't even know how to setup an account, etc 68.42.165.114 23:32, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Toraja review
No problem. I have read all the sections. However, I didn't have time to provide a thorough review on the talk page (I stopped late last night). Some of the questions are related to grammar, although it's true that most are factual in nature. Since I know way less about the subject than you do, I can't say whether info exists or not. Consider those comments suggestions. My main difficulty in promoting the article is the organization of each paragraph. I like the overall article organization (History>Society>Culture>Commercialization) but I sometimes got confused when reading it. As I said on the talk page, I really like a lot of it. Cheers. --Tjss(Talk) 16:11, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Inline citation
You are correct, and I apologize. However, as you noted, most Wikipedians do use the footnote citation. This is the most useful for most users because they can click the link and be automatically sent to the full citation. It's up to you if you want to use them, but the footnotes are preferred by most for good reason. --Tjss(Talk) 19:14, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Tourism Indonesia content
Hey how are you? I was wondering to make a new sub heading called tourism type or something like that. I bring this issue because the reviewer said we need to fix the section organisation. Are you with me? Hehehe. CHeers - I   mo   eng  03:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, maaf lahir batin, and happy fasting (selamat puasa), hehehee. If you can, please read my post on WP:HD. Is the article that bad???? T.T Cheers -- I   mo   eng  04:12, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Could you look at the portal please? I've entered the entry for week 39 for both article and picture, but it isnt working. Please take a look at it. Cheer -- I   mo   eng  04:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, its spring now, and days are longer, hehehe, its my first Ramadhan in Australia. About the article, yes, we can do that. I'll do the natural tourism part and after I've finished finish, or you've finished lets get back to each other. Currently I'm "playing" with VandalProof, heheh, its pretty fun though. Okay lets get to work. But after buka puasa yaahh, in 10 mns, heheh. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  08:07, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I've done with that, but if you can, please read it. There is a statement about Wallacea animals, about the most exotic thing. But I reckon with the citation, we don't need to worry. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  08:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, ahahah, its a pretty fun thing to do. Btw, met buka puasa. I can request for Mac AntiVandal thing if you want. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  10:55, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of Category:Fauna of Indonesia
Hey - some bloke wants to delete this category. Actually, that's not the full story. He wants to delete all the Category:Fauna by country regardless of whether they are good or not. he has found 100s of sub-categories and he has made a case for the deletion of about 10 of these, and therefore he suggests the Indonesia category goes. Should he not provide reasoning for each one???? I removed his tag on Indonesia until he provides reasoning. --Merbabu 00:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Indon, i suggest you make comments supporting KEEP on the discussion page. You are correct - a mass deletion of the whole lot is not right. He sould have identified which ones to destroy. The guy so far has listed some 500 categories!!! it is nuts. Do you know the expression "Throw the baby out with the bath water"? Or "cracking a nut with a sledgehammer"? As for resinstating the category if it gets deleted, i have already saved a copy of the page and even a screen shot in preparation should the worst happen --Merbabu 07:59, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * lol @ "mass murder". "Dead" right! By my quick count it seems like 8-for, and 18-against with 3 days to go. Notice he hasn't even provided a reason for deletion of the indonesia category. Is he offering to reinstate the good ones? lol--Merbabu 08:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

GA nomination for Volkstaat
Hi, I was in the process of adding in depth comments to that page (now added), so please consult them first before adding it back to the GA nomination list. --Deon Steyn 09:56, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi, I have dealt with the objections for GA approval raised by Deon Steyn. I would appreciate it if someone other than Deon Steyn could perform another review in order to get an objective, third party view.  Thank you.  -Gemsbok1 16:57, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Need feedback
Hi how are you? Recently Caniago told me that a number of articles have been redirected to disambugiation pages. These are Riau, Jambi, and Yogyakarta. For Riau, there are two provinces, Riau and Kepulauan Riau, so its pretty confusing. For Jambi, I reckon we need to ask permissions from the related users, because there are many other meanings. About Yogyakarta, its just a matter city and special region. So, based on that, which articles do you think should we prioritise? Please get back to me, cheers -- I   mo   eng  10:34, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Each voting is on each of the article's talk page. However I reckon we need consistency here, and provinces should be prioritised (as we have tagged them with higher priority too). Cheers -- I   mo   eng  10:48, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Kabupaten and Kota
I want to write (stub) articles about Indonesian Regencies and Cities. Give me feedback on my proposal. Thanx. wic 2020 talk bicara 02:28, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Muhammad as a Diplomat
Indon, besides whatever other ways you may have felt this article fell short, and many myriad criticisms I could offer, its most egregious sin is its shameless and relentless deceptiveness. I will share only a few points here, for now:

It reads, "Muhammad's task would thus be to form a united community out of these heterogeneous elements, not only as a religious preacher, but as a political and diplomatic leader who could help resolve the ongoing disputes." One would never guess from this statement that, of five native tribes, one would be beheaded by Muhammad and his followers, two exiled with their properties seized, one of these two pursued and beheaded like the first. This is mentioned nowhere, instead giving the entirely false impression that Muhammad succeeded in creating social harmony through diplomacy when in fact, according to Islamic scripture, he merely destroyed his opponents.

It states that Muhammad invited other states to accept Islam. But look closely at the wording: in fact Muhammad is saying, accept Islam or face attack. It's important, too, to recognize that "accepting Islam" meant, first, accepting Muhammad as the prophet, and most crucially paying tribute to Madina. All these really are is your classic demands of tribute from prosperous sedentary peoples to relatively well-armed, cash-starved pastoralists.

The leading image is dubious to say the least. There are several questionable sources - what is "Forward", for example? And Sealed Nectar is more the religious tract than a reliable scholarly source.

This article was created by, and solely editted by, editors who believe that its subject was the Prophet of God sent to guide all mankind towards perfect truth. That doesn't and shouldn't mean that they can't participate in its creation, but it should give you pause when considering the neutrality of the material herein. It would constitute apostasy for a believer to create material which casts the Prophet in anything but the softest and most glowing light, and it cannot reasonably be expected that they will produce NPOV material without check and balance from less invested parties.

I strongly recommend placing this good article nomination on indefinite hold.Proabivouac 09:04, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

History on Indonesia
Hi there. Recently I've examined History of Indonesia and found that (some of) the info on Indonesia about history cannot be found there. So, it is strange because the more general page has more information. In case of that, I suggest we move (really really move, like cut and paste) Reformasi and New Order, also some other things, if appropriate to History of Indonesia and start the History section from scratch, by summarising History of Indonesia. Whos with me? Cheers -- I   mo   eng  09:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Answers to some of your questions
Indon, personally, I would put it in the Geography and Places, and under the Places:Eastern Hemisphere subsection. I left it up to your "editing team"(I noticed there are 3 of you that are the major contributers). Besides that, I dont understand what you meant by "can't grap GA because of a lack of images and further references." If this is in reference to my New Jersey State Consitution Article, I put this up for someone to do a follow-up review. He is scouting the page for my article. Thanks, if this is what you mean, for the tip. -- Evan(Salad dressing is the milk of the infidel!) 23:29, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Indonesian history
So, finally I've finished it, and I am sure it cannot get any shorter as the history is pretty complicated, especially during 1998 to 2004. And if you want to compare it with India or Australia, I think the size is the same, or maybe shorter, I don't know, :P. Please comment or fix my low quality English, people are not perfekt. :P Cheers -- I   mo   eng  13:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No no no, don't say sorry, its me who need to say sorry. Sorry because I forgot you are busy right now. But yeah, you owe me, heheheh. Just kidding. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  14:00, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Congrats!
Hey congratulation! I've never made a GA article before :( heheheh. Again, congratulation!! I   mo   eng  12:26, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah PR is a bit empty these days. Well good on you, keep up the great work. I   mo   eng  13:05, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

just created my account
hi there, finally managed to create my own account as you suggested. please let me know where to start on helping out the indonesian stuff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wongjerang (talk • contribs)

re:GA comments
thank you for your constructive evaluation on Muhammad as a diplomat, i think it was thoughtful and very fair. i will try to comment on the issue of sealed nectar being a primary or secondary source today or tomorrow when i get some time. thank you.  ITAQALLAH  16:05, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

re: Islam and Slavery
hey Indon. i implemented a number of the changes you suggested, particularly fixing up the lead and introducing scholars where relevant. i also fixed up parts of the prose to make them clearer and more fluent, and tried to introduce some further changes as suggested by Linchon.  ITAQALLAH  23:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Picture
Hi Indon how are you? Did you mean the one on WP:PID? Ahahaha yeah I cannot remember where did I see it. Hey if you don't have anything to do, you can help me on Religion in Indonesia, an unfinished collaboration :P. As for Indonesia, I think I'll let the English experts to copy-edit them. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  10:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Portal
Hi Indon, thanks for expanding it. About the portal, its just temporary, until I can gather all selected articles, bio and pics for this month, then I can make the schedule. If you want to make a selected picture, find a pic and a short summary and put it into Portal:Indonesia/ST_List and Portal:Indonesia/POTW/42, 2006. This is the 40th week and I've selected the picture for the 41st week. Basically that is the only thing. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  08:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Indon
What i was trying to do was to be able to write in the edit box without it actually appearing on the screen. Ie, only can be seen in the edit box.

As for the references, I have always been taught (and now taught again in my masters) that we should cite both the original source, and the source in which we found it. In fact, my faculty demands it in their Writing Guide and marking. And to be honest, i think it is only fair to both sources. It is always easier to find refs in a larger book - lol.

As for the cites making things unreadble, i agree but what can one do? It is worse without them i think. The only thing i can suggest is to go completely against wiki convetion and manually make a cite, like (Merbabu, 2006) and then type all the details below in alphabetical order. Ie, the Harvard System. Ie, it's how i have always done it. I think wikipedia is too clever here for its own good. lol --Merbabu 10:59, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, i understand and agree with you about about deleting empty spaces. Btw, what do you think of the recent changes to the history section? Is it true that we say more but with less words? I think Michael is correct in that we want an overview and meaning, rather than boring details and no context. --Merbabu 11:13, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh - sorry, i didn't know that you wrote that section. Well, personally, i think it went into a little too much detail on the paleoanthropology. However, i just removed reference to the term "java man" cos we already mentioned "homo erectus". I did this mainly cos of the wording - it probably is still relevant, it is certainly world famous. Maybe we should put it back in - no problems for me if it goes back. Hmm, i will look at those pics too. --Merbabu 11:21, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * he he, i saw the Talk:Jambi page - very funny. I replied for you. Have you seen this page: ? --Merbabu 11:39, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

IRC channel
Hi Indon how are you? Is it possible for you to log in to the IRC channel? There is something I need to ask, many things, lol, about the article. For now, please look at Indonesia's talk page. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  12:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh okay, no problem. Could you see the Etymology section I've just written? Please improve the language. Or maybe improve the content. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  13:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Etymology
I was just thinking about Agne's comment about India and Australia. They have the same layout, like, one section for etymology. What do you think? Cheers -- I   mo   eng  14:50, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah actually I'd like to write more. However since our goal is to shortened the article, I had to think twice. Would you give it a try? Cheers -- I   mo   eng  14:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Removal of list of references
Hi Indon, i've been looking at your removal of the list of references. I also looked at the policy you sent me - it's a good one. Did you actually read the list:. I agree that it was a bit misleading that it was from someone's "blog", but if one takes 5mins to go thru list in detail they will see that the list is full of references that are backed by highly reliable institutions. I'd like to put it back - maybe i can change the title of the link - lol.

Did you remove it simply cos the link said "blog" or you checked the list and still think it needs to go? Spend 5 mins going thru and let me know what you think. thanks --Merbabu 01:19, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Merbabu, I simply removed it because it is a link to a blog site. Per WP:RS, it is not a reliable source and I think that is the way a reviewer objects a reference. I've spent 5 mins checking the blog as you suggested and indeed it is a list of another sources. However, a blog is not reliable because there's no way we can guarantee that the list will not be added or removed. As stated in WP:RS, "This is in part because we have no way of knowing who has written or posted them, and in part because there is no editorial oversight or third-party fact-checking."


 * Since the list was placed under Further Reading, why don't we pick one or two sources listed there? I know there are a lot of publications about conflicts in Indonesia, but we should not give them all to the reader. That will confuse a reader to choose.


 * BTW, I saw a few items in that list that cannot be said reliable, although we know that the person is quite famous. For example, "Aditjondro, George. 2001. Orang-orang Jakarta Di Balik Tragedi Maluku. http://www.geocities.com/naulu67/gja080601.txt". Although we know him, but we cannot give this reference to a reader, simply because it is not a published journal. It is in unreliable geocities site.


 * Cheers. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 08:03, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, yes - good points. One day I will go looking for the diamonds and pull them out of the s--t. ;-) --Merbabu 08:06, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * That's all right ;-). Oh, sorry that I replied not in your talk page. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 08:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * No, don't be sorry, i am a big fan of "1 conversation, 1 page". I hate reading 1/2 a conversation! --Merbabu 08:55, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * All right, then I'll make "1 conv, 1 page" for you, but how can you know that there's a message for you if the message in somewhere else's talk page? &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 09:06, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I have special powers. ;-) --Merbabu 10:58, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, right. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 11:05, 6 October 2006 (UTC)