User talk:Indon/Archive8

Newsletter
Merbabu & SatuSuro, please proofread the new Newsletter: WikiProject_Indonesia/Newsletter. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Alfred Russell Wallace is now GA. Merbabu 12:09, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, wow! We have more GA's now. :-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 12:14, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Is there any room for the tagging issue at all? or is that final size? like theres blank space on the left hand  side?   - it looks very good!  SatuSuro 13:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No it is not yet distributed. SatuSuro, you can edit them here: WikiProject Indonesia/Newsletter/Week9 2007. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:11, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Excellent! Much better! - except should we create a link for the noticeboard where it is mentioned? SatuSuro 22:27, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Indon – I think the newsletter is good. But, don’t be afraid to make it a little bigger, especially given this is the first in a long time. I will make a copy and expand a little bit and so you can consider.Merbabu 22:38, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Indon, I've made some changes here User:Merbabu/Newsletter. I feel that rather just a plain list, we should provide a bit of interesting commentary to the articles to encourage some interest. What do you think? Merbabu 23:20, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks good ! go for it SatuSuro 01:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I just remembered, do we need a reminder not to blindly translate article from id wikipedia without references? Or has the horse well and truly bolted on this one? Merbabu 01:42, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe very carefully and diplomatically worded - otherwise we are inadvertantly putting a number on that project that they dont need.... yes - with care..SatuSuro 01:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * ha ha - yes, maybe it is better to keep quiet and just pounce when it actually does happened. The reality is, we are too late anyway. At least 1/2 of the projects articles I'm guessing were just translations of unreferenced material. Let's leave it out. Merbabu 01:58, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Fine - we need to put a thing up in the project front page re the issue This project is not a simple translation of the in or jav project materials - and discourages direct translation as a way of creating articles or word like that SatuSuro 02:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Just say that any translations from id will be removed unless every aspect translated carries a WP:RS (and not just part of the translated sections - the threat of having one's time rendered wasted should do the trick. Another problem (which is not as bad) is the tendancy not to provide in-line cites. It woudl be fine if the article was going to be static, but after additionaly info is inevitably added it becomes less clear what part of the texts the citations are actually referring too. But maybe that is one for the next issue! Merbabu 02:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh well, this is bad if I am not in the same time zone with you guys. I saw the newsletter and it is much better, Merbabu. Let's go for it. Do the spam !! :-) (I prefer to give only link to WikiProject Indonesia/Newsletter) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 08:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah do it - it looks good! SatuSuro 08:13, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, have I been nominated spammer in chief? Are we sure we want a link, and not a template? OK, i will get it done soon. Gotta get dinner ready right now though. Merbabu 08:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess you've volunteered yourself :-). Yeah, I think link is better than template, because we keep Newsletter in the archive. Okey, get your dinner first, spam can wait. I just had my gado-gado yesterday. :-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 08:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Terlalu tentang makan - saya sudah penuh... spam dan gado-gado ?? wah saya tak bisa campur - actually they do have halal spam! I hadnt realised ... SatuSuro 09:10, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Never touched that can product, ;-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 09:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * You have missed nothing. Merbabu 12:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Categories
I agree with the proposal to merge the "Sea" category with "Seas". I don't even mind being called a "newby" (note: "newby", s. vs. "newbies, pl.).  Thanks for the suggestion.  Shelblake 08:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Menurut Pendapat Saya tentang di bawah Harus berhenti sampai kereta admin datang dengan kata kata tentang tiga R atau point SatuSuro 14:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

How do i create them? I want to organise the Category:History of Indonesia sub-catsMerbabu 13:01, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * If you want to create a new sub category S as a child of category P, then you must create a dead-link in an article, that is . Hope it helps. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:05, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, great. I think I got it. Merbabu 13:08, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * My hesitation about categories within the Indonesia project - is that it ties in with the stubs - and I have had encounters with the stub police - the problem with most things like this is that technically any ediot (that is it in a nutshell- tyop - but it measn what i mean :) - can create a stub (if the police dont get em) or a cat without deferring to the project - the best experience with all this is to travel into the Cfd and Sfd areas- where it gets to the gauntlet (sorry indon - seperti trying to naik sepeda terus jalan sempit tanpa lampu.. sort of) of editors arguing about categories underpopulated - and unlikely to be - and so on ...  what i would suggest is that where one of our project categories gets too large - that it goes in the project that we have created such and such - best to read WP:Category quickly first just to get a clue of policies and suggestions -. It really does need a project discussion - I am not doubting merbabu's capacity to make effective categories - and I don not want to stop him - but i am saying we need to have a discussion about this afternoons suharto category - and maybe we should have a thing at project level.  (as well as the process of stub creattion as well needs to be widely explained...)  - or could i have space at the next project newsletter about tagging, categories and stubs?   sorry be to a wet squib - but its an imprortant area to have clear guidelines otherwise every orang gila will want have their day... - like ooh i want ot create a catgory tooo - sort of stuff... SatuSuro 13:28, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, sorry Dad. ;-)  A fair point. But perhaps on this occassion I haven't stuffed up too bad with National Revolution sub-cat. I was actually thinking about grouping the articles in chronological groups not too dissimalar to our sexy Indonesian History Series template. For example, another sub-cat could be  Category:Japanese Invasion of Indonesia for all those WW2 battles, and another for the occupation itself, also something like Category:Historic Indonesian Kingdoms or Category:Historic Indonesian Islamic states for things like Kudus, Demak, and Jepara. regards 'Orang Gila' ;-)  (Merbabu 13:35, 26 February 2007 (UTC))

Its all a matter of how they tie in in relation to parentage (so much for bapak) - and how they relate - the parent category and anak category if they are populated by sufficient numbers of articles its ok - but cats with less then 10 arts are potentially in the sights of the cat police! sometimes 20 is the minumum for the really good fights at cfd! so much for bapak dan anak - harus dapat banyak anak untuk dapat bapak 'cat' SatuSuro 13:41, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh Indon - in my discussions with admins here in australia - I have been extensively tying in australian categories with WP Australia...class=NA - which effectively creates the appropriate label for the category without messing things up, I would like to start for Indonesia- but I remember your concern about doing something like that some time ago - I would like to do it - as long as you realise there is no harm in doing so! SatuSuro 13:41, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

In many WP fields, Category is something that I never looked into. Sorry, I have no experiences for this. What I felt annoying is a "template contributor" where they created a lot of useless templates to clutter article. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Arrggh! terror templates from hell! please dont remind me - they deserve eternal damnation - no I am talking about the article page template at all - but for the talk page only - I just did this few minutes ago - on the talk page only - not a template but a good way of checking what categorys are being used in the project -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:Western_Australia_geography_stubs it is a good ''accounting measure for the project regarding categoryes - but i did not want to start until i checked again - if it meets your approval - will become unoficial indonesian project  cat police - and this is the first stage - to check all cats! and add the wp indonesia clss=NA to every one i find - then at the end we can see what we have! SatuSuro 14:33, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, you meet the requirement (which one?? :-). So you're the cat police for WP indonesia, and please find those "rats" ! :-D &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:40, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * OK I do it only on the condition that I will stop and explain - if there are any problems with the new part of the project which will come up as a group of category home pages as a non-article collection. SatuSuro 22:25, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Cleared 140 today - not sure how many there are to go - lots of issues to discuss - will keep it all till finished - SatuSuro 08:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Got to 180 and still counting today - some are very funny, some a quite sad SatuSuro 09:24, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * "but cats with less then 10 arts are potentially in the sights of the cat police! sometimes 20 is the minumum for the really good fights at cfd! so much for bapak dan anak" And I'd always been taught that Dua Anak Anak Cukup, but that clearly doesn't apply here! :) --Bwmodular 12:50, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * When I was in Yogya in 85 the billboards seeemed to be everywhere with that. In 95-96 they had lessened in number...  potential  Categories for deletion candidates here in this i am tight lipped until i can find some means by which we see the total picture - and some form of the project having a discussion about the thing... and etc etc etc SatuSuro 12:55, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Indonesia - February Newsletter
Hello there! Please click here for the latest edition of the Wikiproject Indonesia Newsletter.

We hope it gets you interested in the some aspect of the project. Please contact Indon or Merbabu if you have any comments or suggestions (or do not want to receive this newsletter). regards Merbabu 08:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Newsletter's great - long may it continue in its new format and encourage the populace to join in! SatuSuro 12:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup, nice work Indon. Merbabu 12:28, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey, it's us, not me. I only wish other Indo editors would go improving articles by the newsletter, because I only see 5 members working on the project currently. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 12:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Have no fear - they'll feel inspired... in time... sabar... SatuSuro 12:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Java and Yogya
I've uploaded new versions of these two maps, knowing that they will probably need a bit more work, but at least they now use the standard base map. How do you think we should deal with these two provinces - they are so small they hardly show up. See here: here and here for usage examples. Do we want to have big arrows pointing to the provinces as on the previous maps - I think a thicker PB line will not even show up. Just thought I'd see if you have any thoughts before I start experimenting.

PS If you check the usage of the Jakarta map in Commons, many of the different Wiki's have their own versions of the Jakarta map, wheras they all use the Commons images for the others. Once we have a standard we're happy with for this map, should we suggest deletion from the other wikis? Just how BOLD do we want to be? :) --Bwmodular 12:40, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Campaignboxes
Campaignbox Iraq War terrorism Campaignbox Second Chechen War terrorism Campaignbox al-Qaeda attacks See? more of that existing... Please cancel ur nomination -- TheFE ARgod (Ч) 13:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Belts and braces
Of course it doesn't do any large-scale harm to put both belts and braces on the Hudibrastic verse, as it's either way a very small effect. But on its scale, I think it's harmful rather than positive, yes. It's redundant; redundancy is not good. It needlessly introduces a subscription-only service—always to be avoided, if possible, use only in emergencies. It's mega-possible to avoid it here, as the note seems to me purely decorative. What's the point of it? Er, don't you trust Wikipedia as a reference work? The article Hudibrastic is actually very good. (Geogre wrote it.) And now fully referenced! :-P Bishonen | talk 13:36, 27 February 2007 (UTC).

Fixmanius's message
Mate, I've seen your edit on the Metro_TV page (removal of the programmes and presenters lists), mind to tell me why such pages of American TV Stations like Fox, CBS, CNBC, etc still have the lists? Which one is true and which one needs correction? Surely you know more of wikipedia than me.

(I've read this "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_directory") —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fixmanius (talk • contribs)

Campaign templates - withdraw & renomiinate seperately
Hi Indon, it'll be a brave admin that will close the current discussion with a result of Delete. Most likely it'll be close with no consensus. What I suggest is that you withdraw the current nomination stating that each box needs to be addressed seperately. Then relist each as a seperate nomination. Gnangarra 10:15, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I see the point but individual nominations are more effective Gnangarra 12:25, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

26 Withdrawing a tfd nom

If you withdraw the tfd nom, as far as i know you can close it (but i am not 100% sure). What you do is put 
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was Withdrawn my nom SatuSuro 14:04, 28 February 2007 (UTC) at the top and put
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page. at the bottom. Hope this helps. --

This is the advice that i have received - do you want help? SatuSuro 14:04, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Frankly, I don't know much how to do it, perhaps an administrator (Gnangarra) can do it for me? &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Sudah, SatuSuro 14:14, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Haha, we are doing the same thing at once. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:15, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry my fault i should have sent you chris's instruction - I hope you dont mind my having done it on your behalf.  SatuSuro 14:18, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No problem. -- the preceding unsigned message is given by me --
 * THe next issue is that the War on Terror dialogue box is extremely POV - ie, a political label for the current American president! But, save that one for another day if at all - it's way too big a fight. I'm not suggesting that we sholdn't have such a box, just not presented as it is. Merbabu 15:50, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yah, orang sabar pasti subur. :-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 15:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Repeated message
Mohon maaf - apology for the confusion - indeed we need as a project to decide which one is the main - or how to get the three talking to each other - if it is possible. Hopefully we can decide which way to go SatuSuro 11:51, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification. I will make note of that. I was a bit concerned that some editors/user might only have one of the three on their watch list - maybe something for the next newsletter to clarify where main messages come from... SatuSuro 11:58, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Photo of the day...
Has this ever been Indonesian photo of the day? Merbabu 13:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope, but I will put them in the list for the next photo of the week. Thanks. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:25, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You have photos at your gmail. Merbabu 14:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'm now in a brave state to renominate the old issue (not related to photo of course). &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:50, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * another gmail sent (more photos). Merbabu 15:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Indonesia & CSB
Indon, thank you for pointing out to me the deletion nomination for the template of al-Qaeda attacks. I understand your position, and in particular the argument that the Indonesia attacks were not directly related to many of those in the West. Generally speaking, I'm for fixing things rather than deleting them, and thus I feel obligated to express the opposing minority view on this conversation.

But I would like to say that, as someone with a deep interest in the cultures and histories of East and Southeast Asia, it is wonderful to meet another Wikipedian so dedicated to a less widely covered topic. Your continuing work on Indonesia I'm sure does a great service to the 'pedia, and to the CSB effort. Cheers. LordAmeth 16:35, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Kulintang completed
Just to let you know, kulintang has been overhauled and is under peer review. Any ideas? PhilipDM 21:37, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Wali Sanga dan lain lain
Indon I could be very wrong - but due to my post-grad studies - I have thought about this for too many years -

As I see it - wali sanga, rulers (ie sultans and others) and national heroes of early centuries - have about '5' identities: -

In reality - they may in fact be none of the above - but it has bothered me that these stereotypes have been put onto sultan agung, wali sanga, and others...
 * (1) Dutch era 'academic' versions by rinkes, van mook and others - who simply work on the story from eyes of belanda colonial attitudes (although sometimes they are not too bad)
 * (2) Indonesian 'nationalist' writers who see the secular side only - and the 'sejarah' in terms of fighting the belanda and interfering outsiders
 * (3) Tokoh Islam/ atau kebatinan based writers who see links with significant  religious meanings to the identities
 * (4) Bakdi Soemanto and Djanandjana (oops spelling) - similar to cerita rakyat as folk tales for sd/s - in other words like 'moral tales' or 'lessons for the present and future'
 * (5) Playful etymology writers who play with the names and their origins - who use pieces of stories for ways of 're-creating' ideas like the ha-na-ca-kra-
 * (6) textual identities simply related without a 'label or framework' by nancy florida and others...

Which has made it very difficult for me to know how to edit or write the wikipedia articles about them - seeing that I have these individuals very close to all the work that I was doing ten years ago - specially Sunan Kalijaga, Sultan Agung, and their contemporaries... So - if I ever follow you in the wali sanga or the individuals - at least you now know the tortured anxiety about 'how to resolve' all the issues mentioned when trying to do a fair evalutation of the information about them (that is I become one of the orang gila myself :)

And also why I cannot bear to see the current article about Ratu Bokos Palace - because it is so very very wrong from what I know about the place - but I do not have my refs to hand.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SatuSuro (talk • contribs) 12:13, 2 March 2007 (UTC).


 * Wow, dan lain-lainnya banyak. :-) I don't know either about Wali Sanga, only to see that cleanup template and I mopped them. You are absolutely right, those articles just need reliable sources from 5 different points (pancarupa ? hehehe I just came up with that word). You are the right person with the right background to fix that. So if you got frustated with orgil di sana, then you know where to go. ;-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


 * My BIG probem is today actually I have come across a free supply of books like  Prijohutomo - Kesasteraan Djawa (part 4), Siswoharsojo - Babad Bharata Yuddha, Pasarasehan Bahasa Kesussteraan Djawa (1958), Dirdjasiswaja - Bausastra Kawi -Djawa - and theres hundreds more - and my javanese is so poor!  - even more frustrating!  More wali sanga editing i think... :)  SatuSuro 13:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Michael is on the west, you're on the central, Merbabu is on the past, then I'm going to the east. That part of the country has less attention from the project. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

New Talk Page...
lol - pirate is very apt indeed! ;) Merbabu 13:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Cool - green. I'd love to have black with white text. Merbabu 13:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The Jolly Roger was better. :-( Merbabu 13:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * let's have peace then, that picture for other purposes. :D &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Hotman Paris Hutapea
I suggest you just merge and redirect it into the Schapelle Corby article - do it quietly, or else some idiot will protest. It seems he is not mentioned there. He was in the news every night for a while during the Corby 'drama' in Australia. His Ferrari quote was actually famous. --Merbabu 14:03, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, just to avoid being liable. As long as the source is reliable, then it's okay. I'll do redirect then. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think It's better to leave it stub like that. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Progress
--Merbabu 14:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hehehe.. Indonesia was not known 6 years ago. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Dont laugh its about to become part of another project as well - see my contribs/talk SatuSuro 10:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Trying to check as to how many articles he is going to tag for the SEA project - i believe up to a certain number might be ok - but complete duplication - no way at all sorry!  after the malay issue I see no good coming from this at all ...SatuSuro 14:01, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Francisco Serrão
I'm really confused about when exactly his shipwreck occured and what the result was. i will try to clarify ASAP. Did they go to Ambon first? Or straight to Banda? I have another reference (that says Ambon first, then shipwreck, then Banda) that he actually bought a Chinese junk from which he sailed to Ternate. Tomorrow I will look in a couple of other books for answers. Merbabu 10:46, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Since the message above, I have found a few other sources - some things are vague, and I've been careful to combine them with yours. And I can get another book of mine tomorrow to hopefully confirm things. Anyway, i have since added more info. Now i find out it seems he got shipwrecked twice! Hence the confusing references to being shipwrecked. Also, did he go to Ambon first, or langsung to Banda? (my least reliable reference says banda first, thus I think it was Ambon first). Merbabu 11:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm 95% certain he made it to Banda. It's in 3 books i have (although one is dodgy - but it's 95% consistent with other sources). If my fourth book, which i can pick up tomorrow, agrees, then I will be 99.9% certain, and that is certain enough. :) Merbabu 11:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup, put it on DYK. Merbabu 12:30, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I will put it on behalf of you then. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 12:53, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Nah - should be joint if possible. You found the resources online. i just had a few passages in books. Merbabu 12:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Reply
Hi Indon, Thank you for your reply, I'm new in wikipedia, and I can't find this things you mention: A. the "discuss page" for the universities term. B. how to reply to your answer.

the interface here is a bit tricky for me; did i write in the right place?

Thanks again --Etaihugi 21:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC) Too much discussion not enough editing ;-) (Caniago 12:39, 3 March 2007 (UTC))
 * "Ahem - cough, cough"., —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Merbabu (talk • contribs) 12:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC).
 * No I mean me and 58.107.15.245. (Caniago 12:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC))
 * Yeah Merbabu, you should look at Michael's talk page and his anon long message ;P. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash;
 * Oh 'him'. dare I say serial pest? It's interesting, when regarding his comments on military funding he won't make edits even after I suggested he did so, as long as it was relevant, WP:RS, not too long (it was Indonesia), and NPOV. We all know the military has a cery chequered past and the article doesn't cover that. It only needs one well-crafted sentence.
 * He had a long list of demands, each of which i addressed by either changing the article, clarifying intent, pointing out where he was wrong, and providing ample evidence where he asked questions. His response, rather than address my replies, was to go off on another partially tangential rant. I think that if there is no more sign of intention to contribute, only rant, then I suggest we ignore it, even remove such marathon posts. I'm certain he is the one who questioned (ranted?) about the religions map - same sort of rant. Interestingly, his IP says Optus in Chatswood (very near me in Sydney), or does that mean it could be Optus anywhere in Australia?.Merbabu 13:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The late contributor adam carr used to have a rule about never replying to isp numbers on his talk page and if they appeared on his talk page he would blank them immediately - think we Indonesia Project active members could think up a template (aarrghh i hear you scream)  which has words to the effect  This editor's talk page self destructs on any sign of Non-wikipedian policies appearing - specially POV about anything to do with Indonesia - ok a bad idea i know - but its tempting :) SatuSuro 13:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC) Another -more than 100 words to say it? it will be deleted on sight, have a nice day :)  SatuSuro 13:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Isidore van Kinsbergen
The article Isidore van Kinsbergen you nominated as a good article has passed, see Talk:Isidore van Kinsbergen for eventual comments about the article. Good luck in future nominations. Telly addict  13:15, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, I didn't know there is such a message now. Thanks. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 17:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Re:A class assessment
Sorry if I sounded a little like I was expecting great things from a small division of your project; besides, you seem to get more acheived then most of the projects I am involved in. I was just wondering if I could go ahead at this stage or not; your reasons for not seem perfectly reasonable, and I'm certainly convinced by them. As for GA-nomination, I re-checked the criteria and your right, although stability might be taken as a hint for 'no current ecents', it doesn't actually specifically say that, so i think I might get away with it. Thank you, and the rest of your project, for your ongoing support during the work I have been doing to the article. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart  -  Receive My EviLove  17:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

sumatran eathquake
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1864684.htm In case you hadnt heard SatuSuro 10:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

spam
lol - that anon editor in Batik i asked to provide references and more info. They gave that link. Merbabu 13:53, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * And into NLA i went and got a ref...lol SatuSuro 13:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, (s)he is just a spammer, I think. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not at all a spammer. I have devoted hours and hours to build a site on Indonesia, a country, a culture (including Batik) and people I highly appreciate. there is no commercial intent in my site wher I have just posted Adds by Google as in most of site now. I would like to share my interest (even passion) of this nice country, and I am expecting that Indonesian people recognize this intent. Best regards —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.167.7.18 (talk) 14:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC).
 * If you are not, however you are, then please read WP:EL. Thank you. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry Sir, but I don't consider myself as a spammer. The link to the Batik page I provide includes material which are 1) reliable and 2) additional information which are not included in the article. The site is non-commercial and intended to share my knowledge and (again) passion of Indonesia and its culture. For your information several students and even teachers asked to have the persmission to use the material of this site either for their projects or for presentation to their students. I don't see any violation in doing so. I thank you for your understanding. (Aberges)

Provinces
All done! There's one or two which could probably be improved (like Jakarta and Jogja as we discussed) but every province now has a standard provincial locator map.

Image:IndonesiaPapua.png and Image:IndonesiaPapua.png didn't exist, so have created them to keep our naming conventions standard. This means that some other wikis will be using the old non-standard named maps - if I'm feeling very generous I might go through them and tidy them up.

Have removed Western New Guinea from the list of provinces. Do you think we should create a new map for that image anyway? Thought I might also do one showing the whole of the Maluku islands to replace this: Image:IndonesiaMalukuIslands.png, but not today - better get some work done :) --Bwmodular 14:06, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you
I just came by to say thank you for the barnstar you presented me for my work on Adam Air Flight 574, I really apreciate it. Thanks again! Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart  -  Receive My EviLove  17:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, Garuda Indonesia Flight 200 is going to require a lot of my attention. Normally these days if an interesting current event turns up I will add it to my to-do list and go back to older things, but in this case I feel it is relevant to many other articles - the recent spate of transportation accidents has had a big effect, with Adam Air Flights 574 and 172, MV Senopati Nusantara and Levina 1 (I intend major work on the later) and the train derailment that currently has no article, resulting in this and this, not to mention age limits for ferries and trains. I think that, given the above current state of affairs in Indonesia, Flight 200 really is poised at just the (right? wrong? depends on how you look at it) moment, so requires full attention. And now, to work! Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart  -  Receive My EviLove  19:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Flight 200
We'll make this one FA as a belasungkawa. Innalillahi Wa Innailaihi Rojiun. Imo eng  09:03, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'm very glad you're back, really. :-) I won't be so helpful there in the coming days due to the reallife workload. I have still plan with the Lusi collab. I'll catch you guys there late. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 09:06, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * LOL, me too, uni has started and probably I'm just back for this article. Imo  eng  09:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Kesalahan besar
I think thats the right way to put it. Yk adisucipto vs Sk whatever was a real thing for decades - and mbak tututs money helped adhisumarmo - according to rumours.... Yk was always trying to get the international  airport before sk - but not until 2004, but the keslahan besar - I cannot remember where my refs are on this (the rivalry and the politics between yk and sk (yogya and solo).... doh
 * Also Adiscupto has had planes fly over the edge before - its too short and slippery usually SatuSuro 09:06, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Mudah mudahan istiriahat! Tak bisa kerja atau kerja keras di depan wikipedia :) SatuSuro 09:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Revert
My edit was reverted by some dude, go check that out and tell me what you think. Cheers - Imo  eng  10:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Cheers mate. I've sent him a message asking about his edit. Maybe it's because his edit was reverted, hahaha. Funny man. Imo  eng  10:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, lately a lot of "orang gila" appears here. :-)) His is nothing compare to this anon editor:, take a look at his talk and contrib pages. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * HAhHAHA, but i've seen more on Uncyclopedia. I've stopped internet activities for now, as uni has getting demanding. But this one is an exception. So let's finish it quickly! Hehee. Imo  eng  10:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, another one. If you stop by to my user page, take a look at the quote I put on top. Another "orgil dari australia", but his POV edit makes me smile on how wonderful it would be that Indonesia could offer financial aids to Australia. :-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I've seen it the other day. You know, sometimes I visit WP regularly, like your page, Merbabu's WP:INA, P:ID and Indonesia, hehehe. Just to make sure everything is alright :D. Are you at work? Imo eng  10:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am, well that's what you can have if you work in the academic environment, that you have a lot of freetime to do non-related work, hahaha. :-)) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Look at his userpage, he is an anti-muslim! LOL! It's the funniest shit ever. Pardon my language. Imo  eng  10:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup, and even Merbabu has gone to the area where DavidYork71 and other anti-Islam pushers have been pushing their own views. I salute other moslem editors, Itaqallah and friends, who defend those articles, but I can't. My energy is too low for that kind of cheap propaganda. If you've ever seen somebody comparing criticism of Islam with other religions, there is a huge gap on it. Nah, my space is in Indonesia project, some pets (mathematical articles), and FAC/FARC. I don't want to deal in there. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah yeah, I reckon it's pointless doing those things. Let them do it and "menyesal nantinya", hehehe. Alright, see ya later. Cheers - Imo  eng  10:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's all for today. Glad to be back. I also have commented the category for deletion (the funniest one). Time to go to bed, football match early morning tomorrow. Catch ya later - Imo  eng  11:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * BTW, what's NPOE?? Imo  eng  11:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's this-morning-I-just-invented term: neutral position of editor. :D &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 12:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Jakarta flood
Hey there, how are you? I was thinking to make Jakarta Flood of 2007 and I just want to ask your opinion on it. Cheers - Imo  eng  10:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Strongly absolutely completely utterly definitely undoubtedly support --- :-) btw, I'm very fine, thank you. Watch the WP:INA's gate, as always. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 11:05, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * it's 2007 jakarta flood. I'm off to bed now, will continue tomorrow as I'll only have a lecture at 12:30, hahahaa. Night! Imo  eng  12:28, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Malaysia Wikiproject
What do you think about setting up a Malaysia wikiproject along the lines of the Indonesia one? Seems needed since the Malaysian articles aren't being assessed, and key articles like Malaysia are languishing. We should try and recruit a few Malaysian editors to take on the key roles, but with our experience we could help them out to set it up, based upon our one. With Imoeng back we could use his experience too. What do you think? Any suitable Malaysian oriented editors you know here? (Caniago 03:06, 8 March 2007 (UTC))
 * Will it include the Philippines, Indonesia and Brunei in its scope? There are 300m Malays afterall. ;-) Merbabu 13:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Gawks - what about our soas friend?  What about the indonesian project with us devoting time to it...   What about real life - out there - beyond these talk page walls, the fresh air, the people who dont even know what wikipedia is..... SatuSuro 13:25, 8 March 2007 (UTC) never, its the sheer exhilaratyion of working with you guys in this very small black box for so long --- also very impressed by indons answer below, pintar sekali SatuSuro 13:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * have you been drinking? Merbabu 13:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) huahaha -- sorry can't hold it --. Seriously, Michael, are you serious? We still have 1469 articles to be improved to FA and with only 6 editors, now you're going to set off across the strait while Merbabu off now to the contentious area? Life is too short and wikipedia is too big. :-) How about the current SEA project? I think they can handle Malaysia well. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:45, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I just want to help the Malaysian editors setup the project pages, which given some help, shouldn't take too long. I don't have plans to contribute after the project is setup. Think about how much the project has helped us collaborate on our articles. If we can give the Malaysian editors a kickstart to get them humming along like us then its more than worthwhile. To setup another project based upon our project pages won't take more than a few nights work I would think, and then the Malaysian editors can take it from there. (Caniago 14:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC))
 * Yeah, I guess you can do that. I don't know how many are active Malaysian WP editors. Perhaps we can ask . &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 14:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Picture of the week
Wow thank you for your message! Meursault2004 17:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ja, ik heb ook andere foto's gemaakt. Yes I have made other pictures. In fact I have uploaded several on commons. You can check my contributions on commons. I use the same user name. Saya tidak janji, tapi nanti kalau kebetulan di Bogor nanti mungkin bisa mengambil gambar-gambar istana! Meursault2004 04:05, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Check this out
Hey hows it going? Check out WikiProject Indonesia/Member activities and tell me what you think, honestly.  Imo eng  00:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well yeah, it's absolutely voluntary, you can take your name off the page if you want, it's just that simple. Or someone else's would. By the way, the cartography section rocks so much! Congrats for that!  Imo eng  10:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but Ben did that all. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:42, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hehe, the thing is, it's really cool. So do you think we should try the activity updates page?  Imo eng  10:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure. Perhaps as a subpage of Members page? &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:44, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I was thinking about the navigation template, hehehe. But yeah, we should place that under the member section.  Imo eng  10:45, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh sure you can, like "Members (activity)" in the navigation template.

Cheers. Currently I'm talking with SS on each other's talk page about this.  Imo eng  10:52, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I've put my bit in - tried to clean my entry - hope others join in. SatuSuro 11:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

M Project
Seems Earth doesn't have time, so will need to recruit some other Malaysian editors first. (Caniago 09:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC))

Myrtle Avenue Line
Please note that I've already created articles; your pushiness is unneeded. --NE2 10:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

You might also want to point out to me where those guidelines prohibit using red links. I see many disambiguation pages with red links. --NE2 10:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Please see Manual of Style (links): "Good places for link duplication are often the first time the term occurs in each article subsection." --NE2 10:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you going to revert your edit? --NE2 10:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Please give a reason for making these edits. --NE2 10:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I think you should read that. Specifically note: "Good places for link duplication are often the first time the term occurs in each article subsection." --NE2 10:28, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, removing the links confuses the reader, who wants to know where the station mentioned is but now has to scroll up and find the place where it is linked - which won't even work for the Myrtle-Broadway links, since the text is different. --NE2 10:31, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * A user who doesn't care about the bus route won't "forget" about the route, because he'll have never read it. You might want to stop and think about the actual effects of your removals. --NE2 10:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't make sense. If you already know what the link is, don't click it. Are you "confused" by links to United States because you already know what it is? --NE2 10:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

That really doesn't make sense... if they're not linked, the reader won't magically know they are the same. --NE2 10:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Indonesian language...
What do you think of this edit? Merbabu 20:57, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I've given him (anon editor) a message. Let me see tomorrow morning. I need to sleep. :-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 22:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Just checking
Those new categories that you have created - I am going to tag them NA - it will not affect them - but thought i'd let you know - I think there is another way of checking for candidates for the categories... SatuSuro 10:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry I thought it was more than one - sorry - now i realise it was just one - as I am on cat watch - letting you know that I tag on sight!  Potential misunderstanding however - I am sure there is a way to track down all biog articles in the WP - still trying to think it through.  SatuSuro 10:58, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I am making one list article for living bio Indonesian articles to ease the related changes occured. It should be done easily, but I don't know how. I don't like using categ, because of two reasons: (1). it does not include talk pages, and (2) only display per 200 pages. Do you know a better solution for that? I found some living bios have really controversial statements without citation or with unreliable (such as blog) citations. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 11:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Good point indon - many indonesian articles that are bios need very careful checking - we probably need to find some bot or way of checking - I'm still trying to think through how to do it... sorry about stalling. I also understand your concern about categories - its interesting as there is a major push in the australian project to get reduce people lists - and to compensate by having categories as the organising principal :)   more on all of this later.. sorry i have no easy quick solution. cheers SatuSuro 14:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Category:Indonesian people stubs is a good one to start looking at, imho - SatuSuro 22:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I found also some cats about Indonesian politicians, and so on, but I think I am going to be slow for this, just to fill in my in-between spare time in front of my screen. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 07:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Your edit summaries are like a breath of fresh air in the grey mists of the turmoil of life - may you have a long life, and a healthy one - free of smog and the clutter of toil and trouble! SatuSuro 09:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you, I take that as a pure compliment. :-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Of course- I appreciate your work - in edit summaries and articles! - oops and lists and categories :)    SatuSuro 10:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your message - nah - never let the /b/b get you down... we will prevail...! (kalau kurang jelas, anjing, orang gila dan monyek tak bisa dapat semua tempat ini - tak bisa - tertentu) !! SatuSuro 13:23, 14 March 2007 (UTC) email follows about it tommorrow SatuSuro 13:37, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

All My Posts
You have deleted all my posts, why?

Your a twat, you just delete things that you dont have a clue about! Che Finlay Will orientate your ass!! He'l find you!!
 * User:YellowSnowRecords blocked for 24hours for violating WP:NPA Gnangarra 13:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

What the Fluff?
Someone has removed Che Finlay from the famous alumi section of the Portora Royal School page..its a scandal —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hugsi (talk • contribs) 20:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

Re User talk thewizardalbany comment!
Well Indon! The external link that I added is designed to enhance the experience of classical guitarists by providing another forum for the exchange of information! It is not designed to benefit myself at all and incidentally did you actually visit it to have a look before you deleted it. If you had done so you may have realised it's relevance to classical guitarists. So - I would like you to undelete it please! --Thewizardalbany 10:16, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Indonesian slang
hey, thanks for cleaning up the indonesian slang article. However, where are the deleted words/vocabulary located now? I can't find it in wikibooks nor in wiktionary. Do you think it's more appropriate to set up a dedicated wikia about it? I just think that indonesian slang has such a rich vocabulary, that are easily lost in time.. and therefore needed a place to document all of it. Surely not wikipedia, but where? any idea? Chaerani 13:18, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

UrbanDictionary
For slang try www.urbandictionary.com?

WS
Thanks for the award Indon. One of these days I'll rewrite West Sumatra, Minangkabau and Rumah Gadang and bring them up to at least GA standard. The Mentawai Islands/ethnic group is another thing I've been collecting material on ready for when I get some time :-) BTW, I've been thinking, since one of your favorite topics seems to be volcanoes, Toba would make a great GA article. No shortage of reference material available, and its a major tourism attraction. The article is currently called Lake Toba, but there is a good argument to rename it Toba to cover the broader aspects of the volcano, the super-eruption and the lake. (Caniago 17:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC))


 * Not forgetting the supereruption has a separate article at the moment SatuSuro 22:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Good idea. I'm feeling bored with WP at the moment, so I jumped one topic to another. Let me see the Toba references I can get from my workplace. It's always good to be behind university's firewall. :-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash;


 * There are some emails as welll :) SatuSuro 09:16, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The Case of the Second Syahrir
Thanks for the quick response, but doing that might cause more confussion. We're talking about two different people. The Sjahrir in question in the article that was deleted was a political dissident jailed in 1974 and active in current politics. Please see what we can do to give this Syahrir a valid Wiki pressence. BaseballDetective 09:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Tinariwen
Why did you remove Tinariwen's external links, except the official site? I can find nowhere that this is Wikipedia's (new) policy. If this is the case, could you give me the link? If not, please reverse your edit. Thanks! Sanaag 12:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I erased many external spam links recently, so I don't know which article you pointed about. But, please browse through WP:EL and WP:NOT. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm familiar with these policy pages and the links you deleted were actually no spam. Sanaag 13:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I found the article you mentioned through your contribution. Next time, please link the article then I can talk with you what's about. From all the links you inserted, four of them points to the same website (http://www.rockpaperscissors.biz/), which is a personal webpage (I don't know the authority of this website) and it contains only reviews. They violates WP:EL of linking to multiple pages from the same website and they fit for sources instead of external links, but then the next problem is reliability (if you familiar also with this policy). Another link you inserted is from Amazon website who sells products, which violates WP:EL again on sites who primarily exist to sell products or services. It is basically WP:SPAM. One link you insterted from a French site, and this is not a fr, which also violates WP:EL on foreign language links. So, if you familiar with WP:EL, why did you insert external links violating the policy??? Well, based on the Amazon link alone, you are just basically a spammer. That's it. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:40, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for not providing the link. I think I basically understand what you mean. On the other hand, your use of strong words such as 'violation of policy, you are just basically a spammer' are, in my opinion, unwarranted and out of place! It was ceratinly not my intention to spam or violate the policy and I wonder if you can substantiate your 'allegations'.

1. Multiple linking (ML): According to WP:EL, ML falls under the section 'Links normally to be avoided' and that doesn't mean that such linking is prohibited. In this light it's, in my view, not a violation of the policy. I admit I didn't contemplate on the difference between 'sources' and 'external links'. If you consider the links as 'sources', why didn't you just create a new chapter for sources and place them there?

2. Reliabilty: You can find many wikis linking to *Rockpaperscissors. It provides solid professional reviews and is a respected authority in the field of World Music. As such, it can be categorized as reliable and can fall under the section 'Links to be considered' of the WP:EL.

3. Spam: I linked to Amazon in good faith. If companies like this need spamming, I suppose they'd use spamrobots! Furthermore, the WP:SPAM also contains a section called 'warning spammers' which is there to be used before (or after) deleting.

4. Foreign Languages: The insert 'link in French' is obviously accidental since *the article is in English; I don't see how English could be foreign to the English version of Wikipedia!

Bottom line: 1. I think It'd be easier for everybody if the policy section was rewritten in an unequivocally clear terms. For example: 'It's forbidden, it's not allowed etc.' instead of 'it's to be avoided'.

2. What are we going to do with the links you've removed? We've now an article on Tinariwen without a single reference except the official website and that's, imo, the summit of unrelaibility!

3. If you intend to delete any of my contributions, I'd appreciate it if you first notified me. I'll soon cerate a 'my talk' page. (REPLY) Sanaag 20:48, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The point of reliable high quality of article is not measured on how many external links in the "External links" section, but the number of reliable sources used to create the article in the "References" section. If you want to improve the article, then please read through WP:ATT and start adding cited materials there, instead of only putting external links. Okay, this discussion is pointless. Sanaag, removing external links and uncited / poor materials are common things in Wikipedia. What is not common is an unexplained removal of cited textual contents in an article without prior discussion first. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 08:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, coughing up chapters (mechanically) learnt by heart makes discussions pointless. Wikipedia, though generally important, is an insignificant part of my hobbies. Nevertheless, I am quite convinced that common sense, thoughtful analysis, balanced critique etc. could improve this website more than (blind) deletions or inclusions do. Concerning the pending case, I'll see what I can do. Sanaag 08:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Karsten...
Wow - great new article choice. I'm envious. Merbabu 12:55, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * See, I attract you now to "come home" :-). Initially, I wanted to create the redlink of Henri Maclaine-Pont, but I found a small biography about Karsten. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 12:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Gmailing you some info now. By the way, what did you think of the Borobudur maps i e-mailed you? I have many more old borobudur photos.
 * Source for karsten files i sent you: --Merbabu 13:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Got it, thanks. Re Borobudur map, it's excellent. I have to finish the layout of rivers, roads and railways first, then I will merge with the map you sent me. But I'm slow on the map currently. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I am almost certain that there was no working railway between magelang and yogya after the second world war - but every map i have seen have put it on as intact - and tourist guide books - dalton and lonely planet - frequently put out of service railway lines in - probable because they dont know any better ... SatuSuro 13:40, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The map I am working has railroads, though I am sure they aren't used, except the southern railroads connection passing through Yogyakarta. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:42, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats a very neglected and under-edited article - railways in indonesia - and has nothing about which lines were closed when at all.. i think there is from memory a dutch language website that does have the details... SatuSuro 13:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, one by one, WP is really too big huh? :-) &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Clouded leopard
First new predator discovered in the whole world in 100 years or so, I heard this morning, but can't find a reference for this.--Bwmodular 16:23, 15 March 2007 (UTC) http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/Health__Science/Clouded_leopard_is_latest_to_enter_Borneos_list/articleshow/1769938.cms SatuSuro 22:45, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

GA review...
Hi Indon. Can you tell me, can anyone do a GA review? If not, how does one become a reviewer? Merbabu 13:04, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Anybody can do that. No personal experience. Just pick one of the articles, make a review based on WP:WIAGA, that's it. The steps are written in WP:GAC. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 13:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Display Device
Indon,

Thank you, for giving me the chance to reinsert my link. The article does not mention the type of display device Nomadic offers. Guidelines for External Links states “If the site or page to which you want to link includes information that is not yet a part of the article, consider using it as a source first.” However the web site I was linking to http://www.nomadicshop.com/ was not actually used by the writer as a source for writing the article. For that reason I placed the link in the “External Link” area with explanation of the type of display we offer “Nomadic delivers tradeshow display, event and retail solutions to companies like yours worldwide, from tabletop displays to island exhibits.” following it.

Please, let me know how I can make this an acceptable link and where it can properly be placed.

Thank you for you time, Nomadic Display


 * The website mainly sells products, thus it is a WP:SPAM. Please read again WP:EL. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 16:28, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

GA for Indonesian National Revolution...
Indon, I want to put this article forward for GAC. I will be working on it today and tomorrow. There's a bit more info I could add. A few questions: OK, ciao for now, --Merbabu 01:24, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you think it is ready? What in your opinion still needs to be done?
 * Photos are very hard to find. There are some around on the internet, but they are not free. Maybe it's not necessary at least for GA. Maybe later.
 * I scanned some maps. maybe I can send them to you and you can do your map magic. Is there someone else who can do maps?
 * What do you think about the proposed name change from 'War' to 'Revolution'. Sure, there was a was with the Dutch, but that is only part of this period. See the talk page. I will need to get an admin to do it.


 * The article is far more than ready for GA. It's even almost ready for FA (only to have some maps for readers to give impression of locations).
 * Yes, you can give me the scan, I'll retrace it, but you have to wait till Monday. Ben (Bwmodular) is also good in map making.
 * Re. the name, actually I do prefer to use revolution when it was redirect to war. So I'll back you for this. Revolution is much appropriate than war.
 * I will make some sweeps later to the article to give some inputs, but it is really an excellent article. I suggest to put it to WP:GAC because it might take a long time, esp. for long articles.
 * Well done, Merbabu. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 16:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, i will go for the GA. But first, i want to get the article moved to Indonesian National Revolution. I will ask SS if he knows any admins who can do it. To help this process, could you please put your support onto the talk page under the relevant section: . As soon as it is move, i will nominate it.Merbabu 13:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Bandung
Yes I am still in Indonesia at this moment. However I don't think I have the time to go to Bandung. As a matter of fact, I have only been twice in all my life in Bandung before. You can read this to learn about the Wikipedians in Bandung. But if I go, I'll think of you and shoot pictures! Cheers! Meursault2004 03:34, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

External Links on Donut
Don't ya think that showing some Donut companies would be helpful in showing how donuts are sold? I think it's completely relevant and I demand that the links stay. Come on Wikipedia isn't a real encyclopedia anyway. encyclone

I'm corsican people and I work in Corsica. I put several usefull links and you take off. what is the way to contribute with wikipedia. The links that I add was very intersting for Corsica subject : photography, informations...jp_223
 * and vacation offers ? tour package ? &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 09:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

yes, sure, this portal is the image of a free paper guide, this information are free !!jp_223
 * oh come on! the information is free, but the main aim of the websites are selling products. Please read through WP:EL, WP:SPAM and WP:NOT, okay? &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 11:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Indon, stop chasing dead beat editors, spammers and vandals and get back to improving Indonesia articles. ;) Merbabu 12:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, I'm working actually with my (real-life) deadlines, thus chasing them in Wiki space are actually stress reliefing technique. (You did chase one (DY71), didn't you? ;-) Hey, where's the map you want me to draw ? &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 12:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Dear Indon, I tell you that this web site don't sell nothing there is listing of accomodations. This listing show to people where is the web site and some information about accomodations. So I can't understand why people who are looking for informations about corsica can't found it on wikipedia ! jp_223
 * Let's discuss on your talk page, okay? &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 18:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Dear Indon could you please answer to my last post, in my talk ! jp_223 09:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you
For your link to wikitrivia - there probably is a wiki for everything by now! :)  SatuSuro 12:41, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup, have you ever seen wikitruth ? &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 12:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Rock Around the Clock
I put back the link you deleted and marked as spam on Rock Around the Clock. I'm not sure why it was identified as spam (perhaps there's an issue with the editor in question), but I checked the link and it is a legitimate site examining the different versions of Rock Around the Clock over the years; it's actually a nice companionpiece to my webpage at the Rockabilly Hall of Fame and I wasn't aware of it till it was flagged just now. 23skidoo 21:02, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's quite possible he created the webpage (and to be fair I did add the link to mine as well) but I think if the content of the site is specific to the topic and adds to the understanding of the topic, it should be OK. 23skidoo 13:08, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

External Links - Universities
Hello Indon, I tried to add a very comprehensive and effective guide of Universities around the world for the benefit of Wikipedia "universities" term visitors. Universities.AC is a non commercial site which doesn't sell a thing and is basically a database contains information about education systems and thousands of higher education institutions including details about their academic divisions, the degrees and diplomas they offer, Location and classification, General Details, Facilities, Statistics and more. I think this site is a must for this term since it's a very unique guide and a great help for this term. I'm new in Wikipedia, I tried to add it but it's been deleted by you, and you told me to discuss it further in the discussion page before uploading it again. So I did, but no one discuss with me about it... Please kindly advice with your opinion. Thank you for your help --Etaihugi 10:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the discussion
Hi Indon, thank you for your answer. Thanks for guiding me to the List of universities and colleges by country in Wikipedia; I sure think you are right; and I'm going to do my best to help update this page with information. Also as you said, I think that by the meanwhile and in addition, the external link will provide a useful tool for those who need further information. Relating to your remark about the 'ultimately complete' issue; I think you are correct, the site have 18,889 Universities Info, while there are aprox ~19,200. Thanks for the time you took explaining wikipedia discussion board. --Etaihugi 19:37, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Copy and paste
Do you think copy and paste is OK if it is referenced. I'm looking at Prester John's additions to 2003 Mariott Hotel bombing and they are simply copy and paste jobs. Even the parts that appear to be prose. Should they be rmeoved? Some of the info should be there, but this guy is just lazy. I dont' think wikipedia is meant to be a patchwork quilt of copy and pasted info. What do you think?Merbabu 12:37, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If it is only just one sentence, then I think it is okay to copy paste materials, but the whole long quote paragraph? Look at this version, even strange characters were included. Unbelieveable. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 12:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

reverts
Thank you. I ned to start new pages then, do not I? Inducer

Targeting
I cannot see why such a vague introduction to a disambiguation page such as "Targeting is to make a thing or group of things a target, to select it or them to be acted upon" is better than the one you have just removed.

I am especially impressed by the use of the words "thing and a group of things", in particular as they are not defined elsewhere, but as an other disambiguation page, which is nothing but a form of an inductive defintion, without of course trying to be exhaustive in the listing.

Inducer

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Targeting_%28biology%29"

Volcanoes...
Hi Indon

Can you look at the geography section in Indonesia. Are you happy with the number of '60' volcanoes in the article? I note your List of Volcanoes in Indonesia mentions 150. Please change if need be. thanks --Merbabu 04:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Samson
Actually the evidence suggests that Samson was in fact a Sikh considering there is no other plausible reason for losing one's strength when one's hair is cut.Ganaaan2 11:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Do Not fool Roast
"Thanks for experimenting with the page Troll (Internet) on Wikipedia. Your recent edit appears to have added obviously incorrect information and has been reverted or removed. All information in our encyclopedia must be attributable to a reliable, published source. If you believe the information you added was correct, please cite references or sources or discuss the changes on the article's talk page before making them. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. — Indon (reply) — 13:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)"

You are trying my patiance this is not good as I am Roast chickenRoast chicken 14:09, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ha ha, no roast chicken lasts long. Merbabu 08:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually I like roasted chicken, yummy. :-) Yeah, but you are right, too long to roast it then it's gosong. :D &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 09:01, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Questioning Link Removal
I'm a newbie to wikipedia, so please bear with me. I'm wondering why you removed the two external links I hd put up in the historical markers entry. You called them spam, but one is the official North Carolina state website for its markers. The other link, markeroni.com, is the same as the two existing external links on the page. All allow people to go to websites to look up info on markers. I think Markeroni is better because its database, which is free, is much deeper than the other two. --Scribe73 23:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

inactive
where was the tag? couldnt find it? SatuSuro 10:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's in WikiProject_Indonesia/Collaboration. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 10:35, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

William Boyd
Hi there, I see you helped out with the recent problem with the renaming of William Boyd in articles to Will Boyd. Just wanted to drop a note saying thanks, but that if he's so bloody adamant about renaming that he's going to start a revert war, he can have the (@#$!) name. I will not become involved in such a war, not only because of 3RR, but for simple civility issues as well. I'll start the process of renaming and reediting all the articles so it is actually done correctly. Sorry to moan, I'm not usually like this...just the proverbial last straw and such... -- Huntster  T • @ • C 13:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

IfD discusions
Hi. You are receiving this message because you participated in the IfD discusion for either Image:42650801_planelong_ap416.jpg, Image:Adam_Air_Flight_172.jpg, or both. I felt you might be interested in participating in the discusion regarding two similar images that have recently been nominted for deletion, and. Blood Red Sandman (Talk)   (Contribs) 17:17, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks for your prompt response. I appreciate your help. Now if I could only figure out why the New Bern photo won't appear on the historical markers page... --Scribe73 22:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Confused about link removal
Indon, I received your message that the link to Kaci Brown's Alloy.com Blog had to be removed. But after looking at the rules for adding links, I don't agree that it should have been removed because it doesn't break any of the standards listed. Can you please explain why articles about a celebrity are allowed and not this blog link? Kaci is the one who's blogging on it, so it seems very relevant. Thanks! Beck82 17:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)Rebecca

hELP!! vANDALISM!!
"The domestic mice (Ovis aries), the most common species of the mice genus (Ovis), is a woolly ruminant quadruped which probably descends from the wild mouflon of South Asia and Southwest Asia. mice breeders refer to female mice as ewes, intact males as rams, castrated males as wethers, yearlings as hoggets, and younger mice as lambs. In mice husbandry, a group of mice is called a herd, flock or mob. See other specialised vocabulary below." - Domestic Sheep

Please fix this vandalism --68.155.150.61 19:04, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No I will not, because I did it. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 19:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.155.150.61 (talk • contribs)

Hey, This oNE iS fOR yOU!!
"'The domestic Indon (Ovis aries), the most common species of the Indon genus (Ovis), is a woolly ruminant quadruped which probably descends from the wild mouflon of South Asia and Southwest Asia. Indon breeders refer to female Indon as ewes, intact males as rams, castrated males as wethers, yearlings as hoggets, and younger Indon as lambs. In Indon husbandry, a group of Indon is called a herd, flock or mob. See other specialised vocabulary below.'"

Hey it is too fun - LOL :) This time I admit! --68.155.150.61 19:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * cOME oN! i AM jUST meSSING yOu up!!

lolololol ΆήΏΈεΕЖЁɳÝ

--68.155.150.61 20:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You really created this vandalism? Ck..ck..ck.. You don't have something worthy in your life, do you? &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 20:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC)