User talk:Indubitably/Archive 28

Thanks for fixing my userpage...
...I wish Tom's Myspace Editor worked for Wikipedia too. Hehe. Anywho thanks again :D <3 &lt;3  Tinkleheimer   TALK!!  08:15, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a problem.  Lara  ❤  Love  08:19, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Email
Ping. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 04:31, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Love your userpage
Do you think you could create one for me? Miss Ann Thropie (talk) 12:41, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Perhaps someday when I've got a bit more time on my hands and am not so stressed out. You are, however, free to swipe the code from my page and replace my stuff with yours. It's set up in such a way to make it pretty easy to figure out the skeleton of the design.  Lara  ❤  Love  12:50, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

The thread
Gotcha. I'm not up to speed on this IRC stuff. Anyways, I think the new heading is useful anyways, but I moved it inline with the previous discussion per WP:BB. xenocidic ( talk ¿ listen ) 03:10, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Ooops
I don't think this was supposed to happen! :o - Alis o n  ❤ 04:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, jinx! naerii - talk  04:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Beat ya to it :) - Alis o n  ❤ 04:48, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hm..
Did you mean to remove SynergeticMaggot's support ? :) naerii - talk  04:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Certainly not... I don't know if I edited a previous version or what. But I just rolled it back. o.O DOH! :p  Lara  ❤  Love  04:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * SUCCESS! She can be taught!!  Lara  ❤  Love  04:48, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * \o/ - Alis o n  ❤ 04:49, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * :O Don't you know that rollback is only for obvious vandalism?? I shall be filing a report at WP:RFDA immediately! naerii - talk  04:52, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Damn it..... I so epic FAIL! */me grumbles* Just take me straight to ArbCom... <_<  Lara  ❤  Love  04:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nah, that's not NEARLY enough fun. Besides, we have a new monthly drama quota to meet. You wouldn't want to miss your quota would you? :D SirFozzie (talk) 05:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * OMG. If I have to equal or top the drama of May... ugh!! I'd surely have anxiety in epic proportions followed by men in white coats on my door step... and I doubt they'd have balloons and a big check!  Lara  ❤  Love  05:42, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Freud vs. Jung
If you subconsciously didn't want me to support your nom then now would be the best time to tell me. :) &mdash; MaggotSyn 05:11, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * See what one mistake can do for a talk page?  Enigma  message 05:35, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Syn, I don't even know what to say... the ABF you've shown by being the 299th support as if there would not be another in order to allow you to take the 300th support slot... it's just appalling. Instead, now you're 299 and someone else is the 300th. Everything is backward and a mess... it's just too much.


 * And with that, I'm sleepy, so I'm off to bed. It's the best thing for the 'pedia... and for great justice!!  Lara  ❤  Love  05:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Which are the two largest wikiprojects?
Was going to ask there but there is such a ton of text I figured it get lost....am I missing something obvious? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikiproject Good Articles, which I believe is the largest project on Wikipedia with more than 200 active participants, and Wikiproject Featured Articles, which may be the second largest, but I'm not sure on that one.  Lara  ❤  Love  14:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Aaah (lightbulb above head goes on...) hadn't thunk of the latter as a project as such...guess it is...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:42, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I checked, and apparently it's not an organized project, which is sort of ironic... sort of. They do have a project page, though I'm not sure how old it is, but it's only got a handful of editors listed as participants... surely I'm missing a page somewhere. Project directors don't just come out of nowhere do they? There must be an organized page somewhere.  Lara  ❤  Love  14:47, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) It was a very looongg time ago, when all that came about. The attitude of most is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and I think there is a feeling it's working pretty well, though that has been the subject of much debate on the talk pages over the years. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, it has been brought to my attention by east718 that the Military project has 1200 members, ~800 of them active. And the LGBT project has around 300 members, not sure how many are active. So, okay, not the two largest, but two of the largest, which I think was how I worded it first, with the possibility of two largest being added. Whatev. :P  Lara  ❤  Love  14:53, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I learned something tonight. :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Random Padlock Award

 * Thanks. :) Haha.  Lara  ❤  Love  14:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Your comments at DHMOs RFA
Total Respect to this. One can but hope people will at least be fair in awaiting a response from Alex. Again, well said. Pedro :  Chat 16:58, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I appreciate it. :)  Lara  ❤  Love  17:03, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Your words kick my words' ass :(. But same, gotta wait and see what he says, but I gotta work in a couple hours so it will be late.  &lt;3  Tinkleheimer   TALK!!  17:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have to work tonight as well. So it will be late in the game when I get to read what's up.  Lara  ❤  Love  17:08, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for informing Naerii of that revert. I also agree with that recent statement you made, that must of took some courage, so I commend you for that. Regards, Rudget   (Help?) 17:24, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. And thank you. :)  Lara  ❤  Love  17:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

OM
Thanks for the message. For what it is worth, I did not interpret any of OM's postings that I read relating to the RfA as referring to your character at all, and I am certain that the initial message he left on my talk page made no insinuations about you. I am not questioning any past experiences you have had, just giving you the view of another person who read through the votes and discussion concerning this RfA. best, Slrubenstein  |  Talk 18:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

FAT
Tut!. You just can't help yourself, can you? EyeSerene talk 19:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Way to go Lara! Wikipedia needs radicals like us flying in the face of the terrifying hegemony of WP:MOSDASH. On with the revolution! Geometry guy 19:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Srs. I just happened upon the page trying to determine project size. I can't look at any page without evaluating its compliance with the MOS. And I certainly can't leave it messy. Gah, did you see the use of em dashes? Terrible. Had to be corrected... some were hyphens, some were not spaced... you can't have non-spaced em dashes! Are you kidding?! Had to be corrected. That aside, I fear your logo may be a copyvio... but I'll let y'all work that out. I didn't look into the possibility of it being solely font-based, which would exclude it from copyright. >_>  Lara  ❤  Love  19:50, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Such tiny things to cause so much trouble -- no wonder I like it here :) As for the size of WP:FAT, I think small-but-perfectly-formed about covers it... EyeSerene talk 20:12, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * "You can't have non-spaced em dashes". I agree entirely. The tyranny of WP:MOSDASH now inflicts unspaced emdashes on us all! Horrors. Luckily MOS only applies to the main space so far, but I fear its minions are attempting to extend its reach. There was a famous episode where someone declared that "The WP:LEAD policy does not meet our guidelines on the lead section". Irony is miles better than sarcasm.
 * As for the logo, I wouldn't be surprised if one day some busybody (or maybe a bot) declares that it conflicts with policy (e.g., as it is not in the mainspace), but it's legal: parody is fair use under US copyright law. Geometry guy 23:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, I have missed you, G'guy!  Lara  ❤  Love  03:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

re: RFA conduct
You must have never seen me in action... but ok, since I really WP:DGAF, if it makes you happy, I post something nice. OTOH, you know, it's always the best option to just ignore talk page comments if you don't appreciate them. Then again, I know you mean well, and that you notified me because some people are not capable or, worse, not willing to simply ignore stuff that annoys them. What would be more subversive iyo, an image of flowers or an image of Muhammad? (nevermind, just kidding, I won't post there again) dorftrottel (talk) 21:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't talking of just the talk page. I was actually referring to the RFA, IIRC.  Lara  ❤  Love  03:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * "Talk page" was the wrong word. I meant "discussion". dorftrottel (talk) 18:09, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Reviewing the technical articles
Hi, I put a comment about this issue |here. Is this a correct place for my suggestion. Please tell me your idea.-- Seyyed(t-c) 06:37, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

RE: Tim Buckley and protection
I've been verging on an extremely lame edit war with an unregistered user for a while now. Despite the fact i found evidence to the contrary the user keeps adding Bob Dylan to the influences section. At first i thought the user was just uninformed and a change of IP every day prevented them getting the point of why i removed it and my messages. I left a hidden comment explaining the situation which was ignored and deleted so can no longer assume good faith. I want to keep improving the article but i've found myself acting as an anti-vandal clean up guy: a job I hate and tire of so easily.

What are the rules regarding protection of a page? I've tried in vain to stop the edits (through talk messages on IP pages, edit summaries, statements on the article talk page, invites to discuss it at my talk page, hidden comments). I'm tired of this. If protection is not possible could you or another editor watch the page for the edits too? Thanks. A very bored, tired and Sillyfolkboy (talk) 13:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've added it to my watchlist and I've protected it for a week. Often vandals will lose interest and forget about it after a few days of not being able to edit it. We'll see how it goes. If that doesn't work, I'll look into a range block. I don't have much knowledge in the IP blocks, but I'll see what I can find out.  Lara  ❤  Love  13:33, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. This user has been doing this since May 16th, frankly, I love Dylan and it was a minor point but after showing evidence to the contrary they still persisted. Wikipedia is a strange place - moreover, some people can have strange agendas! Thanks for watchlisting it too. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 14:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Tell me about it. ;)  Lara  ❤  Love  14:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi
You said to leave messages here. I didn't say Cirt shouldn't patrol for copyright violations, I said he's biased concerning articles with associations to scientology. I assumed good faith initially but now I'm dubious. He demanded secondary sources for a bibliography and then tried to shut it down when I put them in. I now assume he has some agenda regarding scientology.

The internet peer-reviewed journal I contacted on my own dime said it's normal practie to use short excerpts from them freely, provided there is attribution (there was). Why was the page deleted? Hypatea (talk) 21:02, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If you want to use excerpts of material that is copyrighted, their permission needs to be verified through OTRS. It will be assigned a ticket number which will serve as a permanent record. My comment about Cert and the copyright patrol was in reference to your comment in where you stated you believed it should be limited to administrators. Please give me examples in diffs of what you perceive as a bias shown my Cert and I'll be able to determine if there is an issue needing administrative attention. Regards,  Lara  ❤  Love  22:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

deletion
Feel free to reverse... &mdash;Dark talk 10:31, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, that's fine. But we all know you just wanted to delete the Bathrobe Cabal. ;)  Lara  ❤  Love  15:12, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer not to answer to that blatant and hurtful accusation...:) &mdash;Dark talk 12:48, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well played, sir.  Lara  ❤  Love  14:51, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Copyedit of EN
Lara, I wonder if you have some time for a quick copyedit? Emmy Noether has been at FAC for a while, and it's been suggested that we have someone unconnected to the article look over it. We're especially looking for consistency in dashes, avoiding overlinking, and concise wording. (Which has been tricky, given the large variety of people working on it, combined with the advanced mathematics concepts in the second section.) Any help you can provide would be appreciated. Cheers! – Scartol  •  Tok  15:01, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No promises on prose, but I can definitely bring it into MOS-compliance. I'll see what I can do.  Lara  ❤  Love  15:15, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for this. It's been a long and emotionally turbulent FAC, so I apologize in advance if any of my responses seem curt. I really appreciate your help on this. – Scartol  •  Tok  19:24, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Signpost updated for June 2, 2008.
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WikiProject Good articles newsletter
Delivered by the automated Giggabot (stop!) 01:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikifriend
Hi Lara. I am a person who likes making new friends and I am wondering since I used to contribute for two years in wikipedia to make new friends here, could you give me your adress to chat online (whatever is MSN (which I would prefer), yahoo messenger or ICQ). Please send it me to my user page talk or if you don't want there, to my email. Thanks. To be honests I saw your photos and you are very beautiful. --KRBN (talk) 11:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You can find me on IRC under this same nick.  Lara  ❤  Love  11:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Which server and which channel?--KRBN (talk) 13:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, well... let's see. The only public chans I drop in are irc://chat.freenode.net:8001/wikimedia-commons and irc://chat.freenode.net:8001/wikipedia-en  Lara  ❤  Love  14:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Intelligent design RfC
At this RfAR, you've expressed an interest in behaviour of editors at articles related to intelligent design. As an outcome, User:Gnixon/Intelligent design RfC provides a Workspace, with discussion at User talk:Gnixon/Intelligent design RfC which I've started off with ideas for a basis to formulate the RfC. which I've started off with ideas for a basis to formulate the RfC. We also must try to resolve the dispute and as a first step my suggestion is developing guidelines or procedures aimed improving behaviour from now on, so that the desired outcomes can be achieved amicably. Your assistance and comments will be much appreciated. . . dave souza, talk 14:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Rollback inquiry
Hello. I'm posting in hopes that you would grant me rollback rights. I am a frequent editor of articles that receive large amounts of vandalism such as discographies involving popular musicians, Kylie Minogue or her sister Dannii. I would like to use the rollback feature to maintain the quality of these types of articles and to help keep Wikipedia a quality resource. Thanks. -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 22:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. I only saw like 2 vandalism reversions in your last 500 edits. But, much like adminship, it's not so much that one must exhibit a need for the tools, rather they appear to be trusted not to abuse them. So, there ya go. Have fun.  Lara  ❤  Love  22:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you! -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 23:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You're welcome.  Lara  ❤  Love  00:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the fix, LL :)
Much appreciated. :) SirFozzie (talk) 01:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Certainly welcome. :)  Lara  ❤  Love  01:27, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Appropriate term
With respect to your question as to the appropriate term - why do you need to bring this subject up on Wikipedia? A concrete example of when it would benefit the encyclopedia to use the phrase "white pride" would be helpful. PouponOnToast (talk) 17:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If people would pay attention, that would be beyond helpful. I am not the one that brought this onto WP. Which I just stated in the RFC. But, as is apparent by this question and Filll's most recent posting where he (as usual) posts links to his own posts like they're somehow more relevant, accurate or important than all the comments he reads but doesn't process, is that no one is reading what I'm saying, which isn't much different from entirely everything else I've stated in the past month. SWATjester brought this onto Wikipedia. Orangemarlin and Guettarda jumped to his defense to support him in not only inappropriately bringing it onto Wikipedia, but in misrepresenting and mislabeling others as white supremacists.


 * Orangemarlin has referred to us as white supremacists, neo-nazis, anti-semitics, KKK members, and whatever else. I've lost track of all the hatefulness he's been spewing forth to open arms on this project. ScienceApologist's rewrite of the White pride article is the most skewed-POV piece of garbage I've read here. That ADL link that I've seen posted a good half dozen or more times, claimed to give the ADL's definition of white pride as a racist code word, says nothing of the sort. It's an article on Stormfront and Don Black and expresses his definition of white pride.


 * Whether people want to believe it or not, there's a whole load of people raised to believe that white pride is a pride in one's heritage and it has nothing to do with racism. So for our article to read that such people are white supremacist activists is bullshit. And for editors on this project to cry anti-semitism when nothing even remotely in that area has been stated or expressed, is further bullshit. Especially when they are, through their tears, spewing false hate in every direction to discredit admins who ARE NOT RACIST by playing the victim.  Lara  ❤  Love  18:11, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I, for one, think that this topic has run its course and should be let alone. Just my 2¢ worth. -- Rodhull andemu  18:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I strongly agree. However, the phrase is consistantly being brought up. As such, we need to put it to bed, as opposed to ignoring it. The problem is that Laura apparently believes that the use of "White Pride" is acceptable to describe her pride in her early-american colonist ancestors. On the other hand, there are numerous editors who believe "White Pride" is racist codelanguage. I believe the issue would be resolved if people stopped using the phrase, and apologized for any misunderstanding that the word phrase have caused, and resolve never to use the phrase again. PouponOnToast (talk) 18:24, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't want to hijack Lara's talk page, but I see no scope for compromise here. This, and other such terms, are always going to be contentious. Always a problem with codes susceptible of more than one interpretation. -- Rodhull andemu  18:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've responded on your talk. PouponOnToast (talk) 18:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Re: PouponOnToast: I did that... more than once! Haha. But, to deaf ears it fell. I'm not shutting up again. I was quiet, practically left the project, for a couple weeks, but this garbage continued. I'm not letting it go now. Not only has he gone on with it, but now the white pride article has been rewritten to be terribly skewed and misrepresented. And my beliefs are not apparent, they are clearly written out to end this madness. Only certain people aren't reading it. You are 100% correct that apologies are in order. Mine have already been given out, publicly on my talk page, which I've linked at various times during all this, and can be found in my May 2 archives, as well as in private email, which was not only dismissed without reply, but spoken of negatively afterward, which is pathetic. Not only is it pathetic that he's doing this to people, as SWATjester did it to the_undertow and then me, but that the community and ArbCom have endorsed it.  Lara  ❤  Love  18:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

LL (or LH which might be more appropriate in some instances it seems), you are free to not go to any of the links I have included on my thoughts on this matter. What is it to you if I provide the links for extra information or not? What is your problem? Have I run afoul of some principle of Wikipedia by including those links somehow? Please feel free to link me to the appropriate Wikipedia policy that I have violated in that case.

I am fully aware of your position on the use of the term "white pride". I have no problem with you using it in your personal off-wiki life. You can use it however you like in your personal life. You can wear it as a symbol on your clothing. You can get a bumper sticker with that phrase on it. You can publish essays on it in your local newspaper. You are even free to argue that it should be in userboxes throughout Wikipedia if you like. You are free to argue that you and other users can have it as huge banners advertising your pride on your user pages if you like.

However, I suspect that you might find that if we really have a serious debate and discussion of this issue, with wide community input, that such arguments will not be successful. I think you have the right to start such a campaign if this is so important to you, as it seems to be.

Since you seem so so so worried about whether the term "white pride" can be used extensively on the talk pages and user pages at Wikipedia, why do you not start a serious campaign on the issue to collect community input? It does no good for you to engage in assorted attacks on me and for you to direct vitriol at me in association with this issue. I have given my position fairly often and in the most clear and neutral terms I can muster. You are free to dismiss my position and reasoning of course. I would therefore respectfully make the following suggestions:


 * start some sort of petition to gather community input on the matter
 * contact Jimbo for his input on this matter
 * contact the Wikimedia Foundation for their input on this matter.

Maybe I am misreading the situation and I am totally incorrect. Well, this is your chance to prove me wrong. Don't just spit and fume in a fury. Go ahead, I challenge you. Prove me wrong. If I am wrong, I will be pleased to graciously consent that I was incorrect on this issue. --Filll (talk |  wpc ) 18:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Proving you wrong isn't difficult. In fact, it's quite easy. Read anything I've said in this entire situation (something you've apparently not done yet) and you'll find that my "fight" has nothing to do with advocating the use of the term on Wikipedia. You'd also note that my pride is and always has been introverted. It only came out on wiki because of SWATjester and I only went into specifics about it because I was inaccurately labeled a racist. I should really just start cutting and pasting this, as I've stated it a good dozen or more times. I don't read your links anymore because they are, like this post of yours I'm replying to, inaccurate drivel. Your analysis of various things are typically, in my opinion, skewed and leave the impression you've failed to do adequate research.


 * I'm tired of typing, and my son is waking up from his nap, so it's time for me to go play. Go read Poupon's talk page for some insight.  Lara  ❤  Love  18:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Well why keep fighting then if you don't want to promote its use extensively here on Wikipedia? Do you just want more drama? It is no one's business on Wikipedia if you are a "white pride" advocate or proponent and how you promote it off Wikipedia. And it should not be an issue here obviously if it was not constantly the subject of assorted venomous spews. By the way, feel free to keep up your bad faith personal attacks on me. I am sure you will find they are to your advantage.--Filll (talk | <font color="Green"> wpc ) 19:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way, even if you are a "racist", who cares? As long as you don't bring it to your editing, there is no reason a "racist" can't edit productively on Wikipedia. I have no idea if you are a "racist" or not, but assuming good faith, if you say you are not a racist, then fine. But I don't really care what your personal views are on the subject. Using it as a constant source of drama just is unnecessarily disrupting Wikipedia however. Let it die.--Filll (talk | <font color="Green"> wpc ) 19:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Save it, Filll. You can defend OM all you want, but it's not going to do anything productive. He's the one that kept running his mouth long after I let it go. And I don't promote white pride. This is exactly the ignorant crap I'm talking about. Your post is an exact example of the arguments made against you and your clique in the RFAR/ID. Calling my opinion, which you requested, a personal attack. Step off it. You've proven here that you are completely incapable of reading others words and comprehending what's being stated. You have no idea what's going on because you, as seems to be the norm for you, have made your opinion based on limited information and you refuse to deviate from that premature conclusion, despite the fact that it is completely off the mark.  Lara  ❤  Love  19:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry you do not seem to be quite getting it. I guess you didn't really read those links I posted, since in a couple I made it quite clear I was not in favor of Orangemarlin's posts on this either. But it is easier to get in high dudgeon about this without any information, isn't that correct? Does it make you feel better? Is it fun to be so angry?

Let's see if you can get this: I do not care about your personal feelings on this matter. Whatever they are, keep them off Wikipedia. Let it die for God's sake, and do not use them as a club to beat me over the head with constantly, or other members of my purported "cabal". I never mentioned a word about them until you proudly stood by during the F_CKWIT incident and in fact never said a word to calm the situation down and even tried to inflame the situation further, from all appearances. Remember that? Do you think that makes you look like an admin with a good sense of judgement? Particularly when coupled with your previous encouragement of a failed RfC for the "decidedly uncivil" use of the phrase "homeopathy promoter". Makes a lot of sense. Good calls there. Very solid. So just back off missy.--Filll (talk | <font color="Green"> wpc ) 19:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Missy? I'm sure that's supposed to somehow make you feel like you're in some position over me... Good for you. Whatever makes you feel better. I don't know what FUCKWIT refers to. Refresh my memory. Actually don't, because I don't care. You want me to back off, HEY, HELLO?! YOU'RE ON MY PAGE! Like I said. I let it go, for weeks. He continued, and now it's on him.  Lara  ❤  Love  20:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Nice attempt. Won't work in the long run, but you can try.--Filll (talk | <font color="Green"> wpc ) 20:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? Damn. If this were the other way around, I'd be accused of harassment at this point, right? Yea. So, whatever. That's fine, Filll. Keep giving me your unsolicited opinion. I care.  Lara  ❤  Love  20:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Let it die
I think we should let the White Pride thing die, as it appears all editors are on the same page, however voiciferously. If you are further assulted over this issue please don't respond - I doubt it would be helpful. PouponOnToast (talk) 19:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it should have died long ago. In fact, I can not understand why it was ever brought to life. I cannot understand why it is being kept alive still.--Filll (talk | <font color="Green"> wpc ) 19:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Which aspect of it should be left to decease? <font face="Times New Roman" color="FF2400">&#0149;Jim <font face="Times New Roman" color="F4C430">62 <font face="Times New Roman" color="000000">sch&#0149; dissera! 19:54, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * @Poupon: Not going to happen. I let it go, for weeks, to let everything die down. To avoid further drama. I put my beliefs and my apologies out there and I walked away. And what happened? Orangemarlin kept it going this whole time. I sent him an email to try to resolve the issue and end this, but he's not interested. I told him I'd start fighting back, and he kept on with it. So if you want it to end, FYI: You're on the wrong talk page. As long as he's running his mouth, spewing his false claims to discredit me and others, I'm fighting back. And the longer his comments are left without penalty, the higher up the ladder I'll go to see how many more people endorse his actions.  Lara  ❤  Love  19:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If you point me at any comments he makes regarding your supposed racism I'll address them. PouponOnToast (talk) 19:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I would love to see where he will not let this die and brings it up repeatedly. If he has harped on it repeatedly, then he is in the wrong on this issue. But see, I would not know if he has done so or not since we are not in some sort of CABAL. And I do not know what he does and what he posts, you know?--Filll (talk | <font color="Green"> wpc ) 20:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Uhm, it's in the RFC.  Lara  ❤  Love  20:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * @Filll: Go ask your buddy Orangemarlin.  Lara  ❤  Love  19:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What RFC? The deleted one?  <font face="Times New Roman" color="FF2400">&#0149;Jim <font face="Times New Roman" color="F4C430">62 <font face="Times New Roman" color="000000">sch&#0149; dissera! 20:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, great. It's been deleted. Yea, that one.  Lara  ❤  Love  20:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

OM has been on a campaign to discredit admins, including myself, based on differing opinions of what the term "white pride" means and how it relates to "white supremacy".
 * He states that Christians should never support each other ever, (read the whole section, not just that one addition) but he has no issue with canvasing other Jewish editors to support him... in making false claims against other users, no less.
 * In the RFAR/ID editors, he says that I personally attacked him. Further examples of these editors being unable to defend their actions, so they attack those who point it out instead.
 * SirFozzie posted to Guettarda's talk page wherein he raised many valid concerns, most of which are common-knowledge at this point. Guettarda replied, denying all of it, apparently completely oblivious to the current events. Orangemarlin replied with a completely pointless response that did nothing more than serve to fuel the fire, and he also failed to admit his own horrible behavior where he called giggy a "racist, anti-semitic pig", and follows up on several pages either attempting to garner support or justify his poor behavior.
 * He calls us a "cabal of racists".
 * He refers to admins (me, among others) as racists for having a different understanding of the term "white pride" than him, no matter whatsoever that we don't hold racist ideologies. Pounding on several different pages that I'm anti-semitic, despite the fact that I clearly explained my non-racist beliefs.
 * White pride=White supremacism=KKK=Neo-nazism. Give me a break. - Edit summary from DHMO's RFA.
 * He states he can provide at least 100 diffs to prove the_undertow has a racist leaning philosophy. I'd like to see that attempted.
 * Another example of him not being able to put his narrow views aside and comprehend something as not being racist, he takes a diff of the_undertow eulogizing his Latino friend and asks why he's still an admin after that.

This has gone on long enough. I've given a very detailed statement regarding my beliefs, which are in no way whatsoever racist. Yet Orangemarlin refuses to lay off it. He's spewing "anti-semitic" accusations in all directions but doesn't have a single diff to prove it. Much like SWATjester's inappropriate comments about the_undertow during his RFAR, which he refused to acknowledge was inappropriate despite the fact he couldn't back it up. But who was there to support SJ? Orangemarlin. He doesn't believe SJ has anything to apologize for&mdash;like falsely calling the_undertow, who hasn't even expressed his beliefs on-wiki, a white supremacist&mdash;yet he demands apologies over TW?}}
 * The above pulled from the RFC.

And regarding that ADL link, can someone point our where it says what so many claim it does?  Lara  ❤  Love  20:14, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * How was reraising this beneficial? <font face="Times New Roman" color="FF2400">&#0149;Jim <font face="Times New Roman" color="F4C430">62 <font face="Times New Roman" color="000000">sch&#0149; dissera! 20:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Look. Like I said, the issue is beyond a point where it will just be "let go". Until the issue is resolved, I'm fighting back. Understand that. I was asked for diffs, I copied over the diffs with explanations. Surely Filll can agree with that, considering that subpage I just saw of his that's up at MFD.  Lara  ❤  Love  20:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * AS I explained elsewhere, it's really an issue that depends on the philosophy of the person. I can understand both points.  Yet, what substantive harm has been done to you?  You, like me, use a pseudonym. I can easily see how OM feels that White Pride is racist -- in fact, I feel the same way. Yet, assuming that you don't mean it it in that context, then I can understand your point.  Is it really worth all the drama? Does it serve a point other than WP:POINT?  What is to be gained? <font face="Times New Roman" color="FF2400">&#0149;Jim <font face="Times New Roman" color="F4C430">62 <font face="Times New Roman" color="000000">sch&#0149; dissera!

Can you not see?
Is it not obvious that LaraLove is getting rather upset? Why are you continuing to light up her talkpage? I'm completely neutral on the issue, I've never edited anywhere wrt this issue, and I'm astonished at the level of bullying that I'm seeing here from respected editors. Filll, Jim, PoupOn - give it a rest, go away. I'm tired of this popping up to the top of my watchlist. And Filll, calling someone "missy" where I come from is a rather strong "sexist" term, as I'm sure you are well aware. Are you a sexist? Or is LaraLove the only one that has racist/sexist overtones in her views... <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper  |  <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76   |  <font color="#ff0000"> Disclaimer  20:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems to me I was asking a question, and informing Lara of something at the same time. But, maybe that's just my perception.
 * Additionally, I doubt anyone was intentionally trying to upset Lara. Try to AGF. <font face="Times New Roman" color="FF2400">&#0149;Jim <font face="Times New Roman" color="F4C430">62 <font face="Times New Roman" color="000000">sch&#0149; dissera! 20:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry Jim, there's bad faith run rampant all around. You weren't part of it, and my paragraph shouldn't have had your name in it. <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper   |  <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76   |  <font color="#ff0000"> Disclaimer  20:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I caught the Missy comment above, too. It's just silly, sexist claptrap and Filll - you should know better :x - A<font color="#FF7C0A">l<font color="#FFB550">is o n  ❤ 20:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Orangemarlin has left a post on the RFC draft talk page. It appears, and I hope I didn't err in reading it in the spirit of AGF, that he's willing to discuss this with me now. So, if everyone would be so kind, I have to go to work now, but I would hope that when I come home there would be something from Orangemarlin in which he and I could build from to mend this situation, and I would prefer it not already be riddled with replies when I get to making mine.  Lara  ❤  Love  20:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)