User talk:Indubitably/Archive 60

Happy, happy
I just realized this is a video. Thanks! Very nice. Lara 22:35, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Rings a bell
"Did you guys know that the elephant is the only animal with four knees?" I seem to remember something about cows being unable to walk down stairs because of the way their legs are put together, but our cats seem to have no problems. Do you mean four patellas? Malleus Fatuorum 21:00, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe. I just searched for some random trivia and found that the most amusing. Lara  21:45, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * And there was me thinking you knew something I didn't. :-) Anyway, how's you're studying going? I'm about to embark on a maths course myself this year, with some trepidation I have to say, as it's a subject I've always been in awe of. But we have to face our fears. Malleus Fatuorum 21:51, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * College is going fantastically! I took fifteen credits last semester and with all of life's other responsibilities, it was a lot of pressure! I won't be doing that again anytime soon, though I did get through it successfully (even by my own, extremely high standards)! I am looking forward to starting another semester in the next couple weeks. :) Good luck with your maths course. I am, thankfully, done with those! Lara  22:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm talking about a masters degree, no point in aiming too low. I'm not exactly a mathematical dunce, but there's a lot of work ahead. Malleus Fatuorum 23:00, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm aiming for a masters as well. Just a loooong way to go. Luckily, I like college, so it should be a long, but enjoyable trip. Lara  13:31, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Oi
I saw him first, OK?

-- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:45, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but I'll see him next. ;) Lara  13:29, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * First, BHG offers to cook for me. Now FeydHuxtable is going on about my luscious black hair. It's official: the wiki is drunk. Well, more drunk. Ironholds (talk) 17:59, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Or high. >_> Lara  21:52, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Spoil sport. I'm wondering if the bureaucrats will leave this one open as well come the deadline, until they get the result that they want. Or is that too cynical? Malleus Fatuorum 03:22, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Happy 10th
 Happy 10th anniversary of Wikipedia! Hey Bzuk  (contribs) has bought you a whisky! Sharing a whisky is a great way to bond with other editors after a day of hard work. Spread the WikiLove by buying someone else a whisky, whether it be someone with whom you have collaborated or had disagreements. Enjoy!

What goes around, comes around. Spread the good cheer and camaraderie by adding to their talk page with a friendly message. Bzuk (talk) 14:46, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Mohamed Bouazizi
Thank you for all your work on this article. I had tried to collect all the pertinent facts and references while they were easily available and put them into the article. I was hoping that a more veteran editor would come along and take interest in the project. Well thanks again. Cheers! Glennconti (talk) 19:53, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. It's been nice to take some time to write an article again! Lara  20:04, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Hope all is well
the_undertow  talk  10:25, 19 February 2011 (UTC)


 * It's baseline. Hope you're well. Lara  15:57, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * You're alive and kickin'. That's good. You are immortalized . the_undertow   talk  07:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice! I have to figure out a way to copy it before you delete it! Also, still wearing Superman pj pants?! I remember another video with those... It was a mail run in your Benz that ended abruptly when the camera tipped and the power button was pressed by the seat. MERRY CHRISTMAS! Lara  03:51, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

March 2011 GAN backlog elimination drive a week away
 WikiProject Good Articles will be running a GAN backlog elimination drive for the entire month of March. The goal of this drive is to bring the number of outstanding Good Article nominations down to below 50. This will help editors in restoring confidence to the GAN process as well as actively improving, polishing, and rewarding good content. If you are interested in participating in the drive, please place your name here. Awards will be given out to those who review certain numbers of GANs as well as to those who review the most. On behalf of my co-coordinator Wizardman, we hope we can see you in March. MuZemike delivered by MuZebot 00:18, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Meetup/Raleigh 2
Redo!! This one is solid. Some non-refundable arrangements have already been booked. Lara 03:36, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

People are stupid.
And I remember why I stopped editing.

Must... avoid... the "community". Lara 03:03, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, when'd you change your username? Pertains to something which is almost certainly just a weird little coincidence. DS (talk) 16:11, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Like... two years ago or so? Something like that. Lara  20:36, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Agreed entirely. I rarely interact with folks here...which is why I have mostly moved to Commons. A much more independent environment. — Huntster (t @ c) 02:08, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Tool
Just noticed this, thought I'd flag it for your attention. Orderinchaos 09:30, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Lara  16:52, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I see what you did there. I'd help out if I knew the first thing about the band - but GL nonetheless. UltraExactZZ Said~ Did 14:14, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Haha, thanks. I just need to find the time. On spring break now, but doing renovations to my house. What time I poke my head in here for, I direct it all to the world protests. Lara  18:26, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Coulrophobia
Am I one of the those you perceive as hostile? I think most of what occurred was a misunderstanding which has mostly been worked out. At least two of us came around to his way of thinking.

I'm glad you made it to the article...I was going to invite you based on your interest in Psych but thought you were too busy. I didn't realize that you have the condition. That may make you an ideal contributor to the article if you can stand it. I was hoping for more input from WP:Psych.

Karen Huffman's book doesn't list this specific phobia, unfortunately. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 20:31, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


 * My fear isn't so irrational when it comes to images. I actually opened the previous version to see what image was used. I didn't find it scary, personally, but I can surely see how many would. I also found it to be an obvious troll edit. I was first surprised to see there were regular editors defending the edit. Then I was surprised to see how rudely it was being defended. Malleus, who you may be aware I am very fond of, was the first, of course. He can be quite the abrasive fellow, which I don't normally mind, but I consider it out of place in such a discussion. I am glad to see he came around. Reading over the discussion again now, I realize that others, including you, were mostly just unhelpful. Countering with CENSOR and OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, telling him to overcome it... these don't apply to the discussion and they're unhelpful.


 * Specifically speaking on your initial response, which was for him to overcome; if it were so simple to just overcome phobias, they wouldn't exist. Being a psych major and having studied disorders and treatments, I actually have been able to deal with&mdash;to overcome&mdash;some things on my own. Coulrophobia isn't one of them. Knowing it's irrational doesn't make it go away. Knowing it's all in your mind doesn't make it go away. I don't like images of clowns, but they don't induce any anxiety in me. Video (such as scary clown movies, which is the childhood source of my coulrophobia, later reinforced by an unfortunate circus experience) are more upsetting to me. To encounter a clown in real life (only the really clown-looking ones, like circus clowns, not the dollar store suit clowns or kids Halloween costumes) will send me screaming and running in an embarrassing show of fear. Serious fear. Panic, really. And, actually, just hearing that bicycle horn sound that is common of clowns causes anxiety for me. Increased heart rate from a tiny horn. Irrational? Completely. Controllable? Not for me.


 * Point is, you can be a psychology major with an in-depth understanding of phobias, including one you suffer from. Even then, you don't just get over it. Something in my five-year-old mind decided "avoid clowns at all costs because they will kill you" and that stuck in my subconscious. Once an idea like that is embedded in the mind, creating a phobia, it isn't a simple task to undo it.


 * I appreciate you coming to my talk page, and please do feel free to invite me to participate anywhere on the project you think I will be helpful. Worst case scenario, I tell you I don't have time. Lara  20:55, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Having just had to deal with with the depradations of another editor to the coulrophobia article I wasn't happy to see the image deleted without discussion on the grounds that it was "offensive", which I would argue very strongly that it is not, by any reasonable definition of that term. The subsequent general discussion about whether articles on phobias should contain images of the thing was persuasive though, hence I deleted the image. (It wasn't me who added it in the first place BTW). To be truthful I wasn't that happy with it anyway, for the reasons I gave on the talk page.


 * My own psychology degree had a rather strong physiological component, which made me realise that sometimes the only difference between fear and elation is how your brain interprets the stimuli it's receiving. Like everyone else there are a few things I have an irrational fear of, like heights or public speaking. I'm still afraid of heights, but I had to conquer my fear of public speaking when I became a lecturer – the mortgage had to be paid somehow. I was lucky in that the first company I worked for had a training programme for new recruits, so I was one of a bunch who had to practice in front of a live audience of volunteers and then have the videos of performances critiqued until the trainer's trainer was satisfied. But even though I was well-prepared and I knew the subject backwards I was shit scared before my first gig, a week lecturing to a bunch of university lecturers. I decided to see if I could trick my brain into interpreting panic as excitement at the forthcoming engagement, which worked to a degree. Judicious use of drugs really cracked it for me though. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 21:29, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


 * From dictionary.reference.com:
 * of·fen·sive
 * [uh-fen-siv or, for 4, 5, aw-fen-, of-en-] Show IPA
 * –adjective
 * 1. causing resentful displeasure; highly irritating, angering, or annoying: offensive television commercials.
 * 2. unpleasant or disagreeable to the sense: an offensive odor.
 * 3. repugnant to the moral sense, good taste, or the like; insulting: an offensive remark; an offensive joke.
 * I don't think it's unreasonable at all for coulrophobics to find that image "offensive" in a couple senses of the word.


 * As far as the image itself, I knew you didn't add it, but I was disappointed in the way you initially fought to keep it. I have many fears, but mostly in check. I run from spiders when I see them and tend to take a good number of minutes to build up the nerve to get close enough to kill them&mdash;always with a long, hard object or some sort of aerosol that won't necessarily kill them, but at least render them immobile so I get extra tosses of shoes, for example, until I succeed with a death blow. If there's a phobia for getting animal fat in one's mouth, I have that. Such occurrences result in the immediate disregard of any and all table manners for the quick evacuation of any squishy yuckiness before the inevitable involuntary gagging takes place. Other than that, it's clowns.


 * I was 8? when I happened upon an empty living room with It (1990 film) playing on the large, crystal-clear screen of my dad's Zenith. It was the start of what is arguably the movie's most unfortunate scene and it instilled in me a fear of a certain kind of scary looking clown. A year or so later, my dad took me to the circus. I was fine when the clowns came out. I remember gripping my dad's arm, but I wasn't too scared. That is until they rolled out a big chest (looked like an old-style treasure chest) and it burst open with a reverberating boom. I nearly shit my little bloomers. Seeing my condition (and hearing my eardrum shattering screech), my dad promptly picked me up and we fled the building. All considered, probably not the best move, as in my mind we were running for our lives from clowns that were about to kill us all, thus it surely reinforced my fear; but I was happy to be away at the time.


 * Opening that movie article to get the correct title, I will admit a smidge of anxiety at the lead image, but I'm generally okay with images. If that image in question had the clown looking at the camera, I probably would have been more uncomfortable. You won't see me at the circus anytime soon, though. Do I think clowns will kill me? No. But until my brain stops triggering my sympathetic nervous system at the sight of them, I'll continue to keep my distance. Lara  22:06, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I wasn't arguing so much for the image per se, which I already had doubts about myself, but about it's unilateral removal without discussion, especially given the recent outrage against the article's very existence. The status quo must stand here until consensus moves against it. I probably don't like that any more than you do, but then neither did I make the rules.


 * You'll be aware I'm sure of a technique used I believe by prisoners-of-war to help them cope with interrogation; imagine your interrogator naked. Along the same lines I have a favourite clown joke ... it's rather long in it's full version so I'll give the highlights. A child goes to the circus and sees a clown for the first time. During the clown's act he turns to the child and asks "Are you the back-end of an ass?" The child says "No". "Are you the front-end of an ass?" asks the clown. Again the child says "No". "Then you must be no end of an ass" says the clown to thunderous applause.


 * Stung by the insult the child decides to study as hard as he can at school to best the clown when the circus comes back to town the following year. But the same exchange happens again, year after year. Eventually the child grows up to become one of the world's leading philosophers and logicians, and decides to tackle the clown for one last time. Sure enough, the clown spots him in the audience again and asks the usual question: "Are you the front-end of an ass?". But this time his victim is ready with all of the knowledge and experience that his years of education have taught him: "Fuck off clown!". Malleus Fatuorum 22:26, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ....he must be editing on WP these days. 8^D
 * For you (Lara), does this extend to other similar entities? Mimes, people dressing up for Halloween, Mardi Gras, or Santa Claus "helpers"? All of those seem like extensions of Jungian archetypes and somewhere inside us, we fear the unknown they represent at some point in our lives. I was wondering if it goes beyond more than clowns.


 * I guess it goes without saying that your kids won't be getting any clown toys. I still love the irony of the Bobo doll experiment...Bandura's kids grow up to hunt down clowns and beat them up. I can't find the video now, but one of the more savage attacks by an adult male on Bobo is hilarious from our adult perspective. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—►  (<b style="color:#00C">(⊕)</b>) 22:45, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't like mimes because they're annoying. Elves and Halloween costumes don't scare me. And people in costume I encountered at Marti Gras 2001 didn't bother me... not from a psychological stand-point anyway. It may be common for others to fear these as well, though. Images used to scare me. And I'm better with videos. My boyfriend is fond of getting a reaction out of me by surprising me with clowns. He's done well to avoid any actual introduction of clowns, though. He probably won't be as amused by that reaction should the day come.  Lara  22:54, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Pigeon photographer
I see you worked on Pigeon photographer, well it was proposed as the April Fool's Day FA at April Fool's Main Page/Featured Article and is liked by a couple of editors but no work has been done on it for a while even though it is a current GA. I see you are busy, but would you have the time, ability and access to sources, if necessary, to help out if it were nominated for FA? I'm not sure there is enough time to complete the FA in time? ww2censor (talk) 03:50, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * There's very little chance of getting this through FAC in time for April 1, but the person you really ought to be talking to is Hans Adler, who did much of the heavy lifting. Malleus Fatuorum 03:57, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I already asked Hans too (at the same time as this post) but I have my doubts there will even be an April Fool FA at this stage. Thanks ww2censor (talk) 04:09, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I expect that there will be something, but speaking as one who has endured an April 1 TFA I can't say I'm at all surprised by the paucity of candidates. Malleus Fatuorum 04:17, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm sure you are entirely correct but I only see Quehanna Wild Area and William Windsor (goat) as possible candidates that are already FAs, unless someone else knows better but neither floats my boat. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 04:25, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * William Windsor (goat) might be promising, but it's only a GA, and very far from being an FA. Looks like a choice of one. Malleus Fatuorum 04:31, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, yes your right. I'm getting tired and need to sleep now! ww2censor (talk) 04:37, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Don't see this making it to FA by April 1. Too long of a process. This article is also not the article I worked on. It started as Bavarian Pigeon Corps, which turned out to be a hoax; but, to my credit, one that was picked up by some otherwise highly reliable sources. Hans took over and made a really great article. That said, I'm ass deep in scholarship apps, Spanish homework, speech writing, and a job application process. And that's just school. I'm also in the process of spring cleaning and repainting in my house. No time for big projects here. Lara  13:44, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Good luck but thanks anyway. ww2censor (talk) 14:23, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Dreaming of a broader Fair Use Policy (NFCwhat?)

 * http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/108680638/AFP
 * http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/109080555/AFP
 * http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/108935800/AFP
 * http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/108290908/Getty-Images-News

Just out of curiosity, I asked the Getty Images rep what it would cost to license one of these for use in perpetuity. $75 a piece, if we buy 100 a month. Hmm.... oh well. Ocaasi c 04:08, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Yea, wouldn't happen. Of course, we could almost surely write a solid fair use rationale for one of the common images for Mohamed. I'll get to it eventually. Lara  20:25, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * After seeing the Saeed debacle, I'm somewhat concerned about NFCC 8, subject of commentary, and historic status of the image itself. From my understanding of the event, no particular photo of Bouazizi received much press--actually the initial media spark was a video of the protests which broke out in the square where he [killed] himself.  I guess a historic case can be made since one particular photo was widely distributed and showed up in many protests.  I'm less sure about NFCC 8 and subject of commentary, though NFCC8 can always be argued on images-over-text, especially used-in-events-images, grounds, and subject of commentary only requires making it one! (and finding a source which references the image).  Ok, so it's doable, and should be less controversial than an image, say, of his self-immolation --which is out there as well.  Ocaasi c 23:22, 6 April 2011 (UTC)


 * NFCC-8 doesn't require historical significance or commentary. It's a different situation here than with Saeed, though. In that case, the image, without a shred of doubt, passed NFCC-8. I mean, there was no reasonable question. That entire fiasco was a brilliant example of failure to grasp on a single stubborn editor's part. This case isn't as clear cut. It's merely a matter of a deceased person for which no free image can be created. Lara  00:24, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * No, I meant NFCC8 in terms of adding significantly to the reader's understanding. The NFCC debate threw up many arguments along the lines that pictures were not necessary, as if they were not inherently beneficial additions to articles where they illustrated the topic.  The historical significance is under NFCC6, the media-specific policy, in this case the Image Use Policy.  Exception #8 is for historical images that are the subject of commentary in the article.  Suffice to say, policy as written is stricter than you'd expect, and "not having an image of a dead person" is not sufficient in many people's eyes anymore, although my personal preference is for a more tolerant approach to Fair Use, where there is no commercial opportunity lost. Ocaasi c 01:25, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree. Lara  03:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

We'll I'll be ...
(oh wait, maybe I should check to see what's allowed and what's not allowed since I've been away ... lol) Hey Lara, I was gonna ask if you were still editing here. You still involved with the BLP stuff? Hope all is well, — Ched : ?  04:06, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I have been editing, but not doing BLP. In that area, I've just been hoping for a massive lawsuit. Why, what's up? Lara  12:34, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Not much, just looking for things to do here .. didn't know what was really going on at BLP these days, but knew it used to be a real "we gotta do something" area. Cheers and Best. — Ched :  ?  22:50, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Couldn't tell you. I just assume it's either the same as it was or it's an issue of people giving up and letting the risk fall on the Foundation. The latter is where I ended up. Too many stubborn assholes on this project with nothing better to do than be a wrench. Foundations too busy being uninvolved and spending money to give a damn about living subjects. Not my problem anymore. Well, it wasn't my problem to begin with. I tried. I'm content with that. Lara  00:57, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * There are a handful of tax-related articles that could be greatly improved. If interested, I would welcome any help. I promise not to be mean. the_undertow   talk  00:52, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * That sounds painfully fascinating. I have Mohamed Bouazizi to expand when I get the time, though. Lara  02:20, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Note
Even very good editors can misinterpret comments. I think both Abrazame (and then you) went a little overboard at the List of Women article. He didn't realize why you'd moved it after opposing it, and didn't see your reconsideration, and you thought he was being more personal than I think he intended. He's a very good and thoughtful Wikipedian, as I think you are too: maybe the talk page can be toned down a bit, in the interest of keeping both of you focused on what you do best. Cheers, Ocaasi c 13:50, 14 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I appreciate the note and your point. I will do my best to be calm in my responses. Although, if comments continue to ask questions that have already been answered, I'll most likely just pass over those comments rather than waste anymore time repeating myself. So either way, there shouldn't be anymore issues. Lara  14:26, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Invitation to take part in a pilot study
I am a Wikipedian, who is studying the phenomenon on Wikipedia. I need your help to conduct my research on about understanding "Motivation of Wikipedia contributors." I would like to invite you to a short survey. Please give me your valuable time, which estimates only ‘’’5 minutes’’’ cooldenny (talk) 15:42, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. That survey could use a serious copy-edit. Lara  20:15, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

ANI
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Ironholds (talk) 14:48, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Kohs
Hello... with respect to the Kohs matter, I just wanted to be clear that I realize you are merely the messenger. I appreciate that you took the time to pass on the request. Cheers. --Ckatz <sup style="color:green;">chat <sub style="color:red;">spy  16:50, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I appreciate it. Lara  17:32, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Idea
Create a mini-project to bring the articles of Neda, Mohamed Bouazizi, Khaled Said, and Hamza Ali Al-Khateeb up to GA/FA status. Possibly expand to include others whose deaths became symbols of war and peace (i.e. Pat Tillman). Would you like to work on something like this? Ocaasit 21:18, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I've been wanting to work on Mohamed Bouazizi's article to bring it to GA for a while, but I've been so busy with school and the rest of life, I just don't have time. Taking bio and American lit over the summer and then I've got a full schedule in the fall. Just not a lot of time for editing. Lara  23:51, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, if we start a mini-project you can trust proofread it! Good luck with school. Ocaasit 00:08, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * WikiProject_Council/Proposals/HistoryBioLife. Might need a new name, but check it out... Ocaasit 04:37, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Infocentre thing
Did User:Jennavecia/InfoCenter come from you?

It looks like I stole it (ages ago, when I didn't know better).

Please see User talk:Chzz. Ta.  Chzz  ► 02:06, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

The Best of Tool
I noticed that you are one of the still active main contributors to the Tool discography article, so I presume you are knowledgeable on the subject. Could you please have a look at the article The Best of Tool. I proposed it for deletion because I am convinced this is a hoax. I also posted a note on the WikiProject Albums talk-page. The Tool-WikiProject seems to be inactive. Thank you and regards. 94.226.153.163 (talk) 14:31, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Mail
Snardbafulator (talk) 23:49, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

File:Xenus-design.jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Xenus-design.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Calliopejen1 (talk) 04:13, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Not sure how little fixes constitute defending the wiki, but thanks. Lara  20:13, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * It'e been over two years since I checked out, but thanks!! Lara  05:21, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah... well, whatever. Thanks for all the work you did do to protect BLPs.  Master&amp;  Expert ( Talk ) 14:08, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry to have bothered you with such an irrelevant talk page message. I guess I just felt like making someone feel appreciated for all they've done for this site. I remember the first year I was on Wikipedia (2008-2009), and you did so much for our biographical articles. It's so important that we have people who are passionate about Wikipedia and its impact on the world. I guess it's kind of weird to say that at this point, but your name was the first that came to mind, so I gave you a barnstar. I doubt you even remember my name and I don't think any of this really matters to anyone, but here you go. And one more thing &mdash; don't ever feel like a stranger here.


 * Merry Christmas!  Master&amp;  Expert ( Talk ) 04:17, 25 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry if I seemed ungrateful. That wasn't the intent of my message. The "keep up the excellent work" part seemed to suggest that there was a belief that I was still working on BLPs, when failure to see significant progress in that area contributed to me stopping my work in it. That said, I recognize your name and it doesn't make me feel stabby inside, so that's a good sign that I had positive interactions with you. I appreciate that my name was the first to come to your mind for the BLP Barnstar. It's good to know there was some positive impact made in some way. Thank you for the barnstar, which I did/do appreciate and added to my collection! I hope you have a merry Christmas and a prosperous new year! Lara  04:49, 25 December 2011 (UTC)


 * No, not at all! And it's great to know that somebody remembers me. :)  Master&amp;  Expert ( Talk ) 08:23, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Needs more anus. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:11, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Someone has a Christmas wish... Lara  05:33, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Amen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Statement_by_Jennavecia was one of the most blunt and honest statements out of the lot, and one of the very few worth reading. I liked it. Although why aren't you studying right now? Merry Christmas! :D Ooh Bunnies! Leave a message :) 19:23, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! As for my Tiger Mom status, it is winter break, BUT I did get my Psychology & the Legal System textbook for my Forensic Psychology class, and I started pre-reading it last week. XD Lara  19:55, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

 * Thanks! Lara  20:50, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

cunt references
Re (second section). Are you planning to add an evidence section to the main page? If not I'm considering adding some of these to mine. Nobody Ent 04:57, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm writing it now. It's a task to get below 500 words. I'm having to cut a few out. Lara  05:00, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay. I've got about a hundred words of my allotment left and wasn't planning to add any more; let me know when you're done and I'll try to squeeze any you had to leave out. Nobody Ent 05:09, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I'm a few over the limit, but I can only trim quotes so much before they lose their purpose. Feel free to use what I didn't. Lara  05:19, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't get how that bot counts. According to my word counter, it's like 450 words. Yet the bot says 208! Lara  07:44, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Evidence
Considering the fact the many people who have chimed in on the various pages of the ArbCom case have very strong opinions regarding this issue, it would be best to avoid using a pugnacious/hostile tone, as it can only sour the discussion; that's why, in my opinion, comments such as this, Assuming that you're aren't pretending to be dense for the sake of provoking drama are incredibly unhelpful. You might want to consider redacting that... I understand you appreciate feisty discussion, but everyone should try to keep their cool, to avoid turning the case into an unpleasant mess. Salvio Let's talk about it! 14:12, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I just saw you redacting per this request. Feisty you may be, but you are gracious as always, and it is great to see you contributing. I wish you a very Happy New Year. Geometry guy 14:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, G'guy. It's good to see you again! Lara  15:14, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks from me too! It's much appreciated! Salvio  Let's talk about it! 15:16, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


 * No problem. Lara  15:23, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

It's unfortunate that users will resort to editing out others comments to give the impression that they got the final word, leaving their opponent without response. The irony is almost painful. Lara 18:46, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You've gone above and beyond in trying to provide logical explanations and discussion in an environment where preconceived notions seem to simply unmovably entrenched. Nobody Ent 19:11, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I've just noticed this. Thank you! Lara  18:35, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You're most welcome. Nobody Ent 23:19, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi again, this reply of yours, contains various ad hominem which border on being personal attacks; would be willing to rephrase it, please? Salvio Let's talk about it! 15:29, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * That is the rephrased version. I never saved the original. I'll rephrase again once Kaldari strikes his disrespectful comments that brings the Foundation into disrepute. Lara  15:52, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * What are the parts of Kaldari's comment that you consider disrepectful? Salvio  Let's talk about it! 15:58, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It's quoted in the response you've taken issue with here. It is the entire reason for my response. Lara  16:14, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * That comment, in my opinion, does not a reply as snarky as yours was. Kaldari's post may not have been phrased in the best of ways, but it was not that disrepectful. I have to ask you again to rephrase. Salvio  Let's talk about it! 18:05, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I respect that your perspective and opinion differ from mine. However, my comment is no more inappropriate than his. Thus, I have to again decline. Lara  18:30, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Since you appear unwilling to rephrase your reply, I have just removed it altogether as a clerk action. Please do not revert my edit. Salvio  Let's talk about it! 19:12, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't think of it. That might land me in arbitration, and as I'm not a Foundation employee, I don't think my posts would receive favor, even if they displayed blatant hypocrisy. Lara  19:24, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I liked it. Nobody Ent 18:27, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Apparently other people get hatted. I get blanket removal. Lara  19:18, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I know you haven't asked, but I feel an explanation is warranted here: as a rule of thumb, I remove a comment when nobody has replied to it; whereas, when there have been responses, so as not to mess with the conversation, I have no other choice but hatting the entire exchange instead of removing single posts. Salvio  Let's talk about it! 14:40, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * That's quite a perverse incentive system; when Lara makes a post so well written and spot on that no additional comment is necessary, her clarity makes it eligible for removal, whereas a poorly written post which prompts response due to lack of clarity or reason, will remain. Hatting merely serves as beans -- "click here to see the good stuff." Nobody Ent 14:54, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Lara  16:00, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

The answer you seek ...
... as to why one word is acceptable and the other is not is actually quite obvious. It's because we can write our names in the snow with ours .... ummm .. oh wait ... there was this one girl <_< .. >_> ... nevermind ... prolly already way TMI for the current spectators. Thanks for weighing in on the whole thing Lara .. always did appreciate your perspective on things. Hope you have a great 2012. :) — Ched : ?  19:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


 * And profound thanks to Lara from me as well. Keeping track of what the Hell's going on is mind-spinning. And that she's a girl is a big kick in the teeth for those who're trying to label me a misogynist ... unless they think she is as well of course. :-) Malleus Fatuorum 19:14, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


 * God, I hate women! >_> No, wait.
 * Ched, I have received a similar response from my boyfriend, though some time ago, unrelated to anything here. That you guys would even write your name in... I mean, really? Gah... boys. And Mal, I'm becoming overwhelmed. There is too much discussion in too many fora! I suppose I should be thankful that there are editors unable to engage in thoughtful discussion using reason! Less to keep track of. Still, if everyone could just move discussions involving me to sections on my talk page, that would be helpful, thx. XD Lara  19:38, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


 * {ec} If I might be permitted to go on a bit of a here .. there's several things that really gnaw at me. 1) First Thumperward makes the condescending "You must be new here" (link) and then comes back 7+ hours later with that first block.  2) When Hawkeye7 reblocks (ok, you really shouldn't have said that to Spitfire - even if he was baiting the hell out of you) - first, how on earth anyone can xe claim any kind of "consensus" is beyond me - and second - to link to WP:LTA in the block log just absolutely stuns me.  It's either a) at best, as it's a posting board and not even an essay, (let alone guideline or policy) - hence a complete lack of WP:CIR ... or b) A HUGE personal attack to lump such a prolific content editor in with spammers, hoax writers .. downright vandals.


 * At least I was aware of the fact that public officials have seen fit in some cultures to name things such as Gropecunt Lane and Tickle Cock Bridge - and as such .. I simply came to talk to you about it. The entire affair really does highlight the point you've long made about the incompetence of "some" admins.  I knew the day that Pedro put me up at RfA that it could often include having to suffer the slings and arrows from those who didn't have the same buttons.  That's simply the maturity that's needed to hold those bits.  It goes with the territory (or at least it should).  I think the whole thing is a very sad commentary on not just Wikipedia, but the entire "online" culture that perceives some ability to anonymously do and type things safe behind a keyboard as some sort of power or ability.  I know there's no "tone" behind the written word, but all to often readers subconsciously inject one, and often the wrong tone.   Oh well, guess I should go try to find a typo to fix, or a reference to post somewhere.  best to all... — Ched :  ?  19:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


 * @Lara .. sigh .. yea. I know you're right.  Even the most intelligent males lack the ability to display solid reason when the blood goes from one head to the other.  Pretty much one of two things .. Food .. and I'm pretty sure you're aware of the other. — Ched :  ?  19:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks
Thank you for the tweaks here. Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 05:15, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. I'll work on it more when I get the time. A bit distracted by the current arbitration! Lara  06:08, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh so you are Lara. :D I made some changes in the writing section. Actually the song is on the first disc because it is a ballad. It is actually an explanation for it being there and not on the second disc which contains uptempos. Please continue. I appreciate your help. Jivesh 1205 (Talk) 06:28, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Question
Lara, this is a bit of a ramble, and too tangenital for the arb board, but maybe you'll find it interesting, and hey one good question deserves another! Sorry for disappointing you about the chances of ending the double standards. The prospects for pleasing change are much brighter than my hasty sketch may have implied. At top level, I mentioned President Rousseff, at grass roots there are massive world wide yearnings for m/f balance, see this famous BBC Article by Paul Mason surveying the global protest scene early last year (even before occupy) where he notes women are forming the backbone of these world shaking movements. From mid level theres the recent almost exponential growth of deliberative democracy, which promotes consensus based political decision making among ordinary men and women, with formal backing from the state. Ive studied and participated in both the formal and grassroots decision making - compared to "concensus" based processes here at Wikipedia the difference in outcome and quality of experience is stunning. A balanced approach is promoted where anyone who trys to win arguments with old fashion aggression fails, and often few even try, folk just naturally fall into a form of communication where openness and receptivity are strengths not weaknesses. Folk seem to be able to sense if others are genuinely in the spirit of things – you only have a chance of convincing others if youre open to being convinced yourself. The debates are then win win – either you get your way, or if youre persuaded in a consensus contrary to your initial position you feel like your understanding has been enhanced. This is partly why the more sensitive speak of the strange beauty of the experience and why there are so many sources out there saying occupiers love their consensus building process even to the extent of "fetishizing" it. At the 4 camps Ive visited its striking how readily the young men present seem to accept the non violent, balanced ethos even though they tend to outnumber the women present by about 3 to 2. Im just sketching a tiny part of the foreground here to hint at the historic cultural, political and spiritual forces at work, forces which the super-elite are now unable to understand nor control. Its hard to call, there are ways the status quo might be maintained, but the odds are good that in 10 years the comparison I made between m/f qualities will be much less true. Exceling in sensitivity might avail one just as much as exceling in aggression. With the C word itself it will still take decades as even without the underlying bias the word will still be offensive due to the dissonance effect mentioned on the arb page (not 1 in 100% would be able to articulate it but its emotionally sensed by a majority which is part of the why the word provokes some such strong reactions in some - what will probably happen is the word will either fall into dissue or loose its primary meaning.)

As with so many desirable changes, m/f balance will be achieved indirectly. The women taking part in deliberative democracy, various protests and other political changes arent feminists; often the most driven and effective ones are mothers who are worried for the future of their children. Feminism is maybe a spent force in the West, despite a few power bases like in the UK Labour party, and this leads to the question I wanted to ask. Here in GB, my impression is that feminism has been so successful that aide from about the top 10%, women now have considerably better life chances than men. You seem to have good instincts and an interest in these things, so just wondered if you have a similar impression across the pond? FeydHuxtable (talk) 23:39, 4 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't know if I would say that women have better life chances than men here right now, but we are certainly getting much closer to equality. The failing economy has forced a lot of change. Women are flooding into colleges and universities, out-numbering men across the board, and the number of stay-at-home-dads is on the rise&mdash;up to 12% of all stay-at-home parents in 2011. Women are staking their claim in the professional world and finding themselves the breadwinners of their families, but it's not widespread just yet, I don't think. A few more decades. Lara  04:16, 5 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I am the 12%! Talk page stalking done.  BTW, welcome back to active editing.  I missed you! -- Jayron  32  19:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I've missed you too! It's only temporary, though. Classes resume Monday and it's set to be my most difficult semester yet. Lara  19:20, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting to hear that. This may be encouraging: "in much of the western world, women now outperform men at almost all levels of education, and in many age cohorts, female unemployment rates are lower than for men, and newly graduated women sometimes ­command higher average salaries in the US." Its from the worlds most respected female journalist, Gillian Tett, in a recent FT article. (well worth the 30 secs it takes to register for limited free access if you havent already.) Best of luck for your semester. FeydHuxtable (talk) 17:13, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Encouraging, indeed. I'm kicking ass and taking names wrt my education, and I expect to command a fine salary upon completion. Hopefully I'll help further boost those statistics. Lara  16:03, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Incivil is not a word.
Share the knowledge. Lara 05:17, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The moar you know. Kafka Liz (talk) 05:24, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ORLY? -- Jayron  32  05:52, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Didn't check that, but touché - it is in my OED. I fail. For what it's worth, the OED labels it obsolete and lists the primary definition as "not of the rank of a free citizen", and my little dictionary - the one I can read without a magnifier - says "see uncivil". Kafka Liz (talk) 06:16, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * What I get from your link:
 * ""incivil To view the definition of incivil, activate your Merriam-Webster Unabridged FREE TRIAL now! Merriam-Webster Unabridged contains all definitions in the free Merriam-Webster Dictionary as well as 200,000 additional definitions. Activate a FREE TRIAL to gain complete access now!""


 * As far as I'm concerned, those 200,000 additional definitions don't exist until they're freely available. :| Lara  14:15, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ...I got the same, so went with what I have at home for free. No trial activation necessary :) Kafka Liz (talk) 14:28, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I also have the Oxford Dictionary of English as well as the the New Oxford American Dictionary. Neither of mine have incivil. Noah Webster's 1828 American Dictionary has it. The above unabridged version was published in 1913, also by Webster, obvs. Scrabblefinder has no definition, but it is an acceptable word in SCRABBLE, so that's gotta be worth something. All considered, it is incivility and uncivil. Get with the times, people. Lara  15:55, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't sharing the knowledge that Lara doesn't know incivil is a word be incivil rude? Nobody Ent 14:31, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes! Don't upset my delicate sensibilities, or I will halt productivity on this project and haul you to Arbcom! Lara  15:55, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * And yet "incivility" as a noun is considered viable link. Oh well, "I before E, except after C" .. weird ... :) — Ched :  ?  17:05, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

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:)
-- Jayron  32  04:30, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

(-: --MZMcBride (talk) 05:42, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

[; --Closedmouth (talk) 10:38, 5 October 2012 (UTC)


 * <3 Lara  12:07, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's Collaborative

 * I'm sorry to hear that you can't wait to have me involved. That creates quite the paradox. Lara  01:39, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

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Information
I noticed your username commenting at an Arbcom discussion regarding civility. An effort is underway that would likely benifit if your views were included. I hope you will append regards at: Requests for comment/Civility enforcement/Questionnaire Thank you for considering this request. My 76 Strat  (talk) 09:27, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Meh. I started to participate in this, but it's finals week and this thing is longer than the Bible. Can I just do a straight party vote for "GTFOver it. Focus on writing and stop getting uppity about people using naughty words in anger"? Thanks, Lara  20:28, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that reply, and for considering this request. Any manner you might choose to respond is an appropriate manner. Several editors have deleted the questions after substituting the questionnaire and instead left a summary of their opinion. "GTFOver it" is a valid position and it begs the support of other editors who hold a similar view. I understand your priorities however, and wish you the best during your finals. Cheers. -- My 76 Strat  (talk)  00:22, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool. I may do that then. I have to focus on every.single.thing that happened with European diplomacy between 1618 and 1815 for the next couple of days, though. When is the cutoff for this? Lara  00:38, 10 December 2012 (UTC)