User talk:Ironholds/archive 24

Grim
I notice that my report for the holiday was very short, but I guarantee you that the holiday is not a hoax. I encourage you to research the topic or at least search for some legitimacy on the topic before you speedy delete them. National Chocolate-Covered Cashews Day is seriously a holiday and I'm disappointed that you didn't even bother to look before you deleted the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GrimKitten (talk • contribs) 03:26, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Jdfirth
Hi - Mike Simpson SW Surrey PPC speedy deletion, just found out from Mike Simpson himself he was previously elected public representative on district council. Can I get the page back on these grounds, so long as can put previously elected historical bio details in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdfirth (talk • contribs) 23:56, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Zarius1
Hey man, why do you wanna delete my article about my book? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.82.3.171 (talk) 00:14, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Wheeler v Saunders Ltd
As I was looking over the DYK queue, I was intrigued by Wheeler v Saunders Ltd (nice article, and great hook!), but I have one request — could you modify the final sentence of the intro? It ends "had been a commercial dock, which was.", and I suspect that you meant to say something after the "was". Nyttend (talk) 03:57, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you mean "which was a sufficient development"? I'm confused.  Nyttend (talk) 04:03, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks; I've changed "dock" to "dock, which was a sufficient development", as I expect that others too will be confused. Nyttend (talk) 04:16, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you very much for your support on the coordinator elections. – Joe   N  14:11, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Nobel Prize FA
Hey,

I noticed you are a member of the WikiProject Awards. I have just nominated Nobel Prize for FA and I would love to have some comments or support on the nomination page. Since you are in the same project I hoped you could check it out perhaps? -- Esuzu ( talk  •  contribs ) 22:20, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

James Franklin Kay
Dear Ironholds, I will need a few days to write the full article - I have a lot of information available but need to filter the most important. Surely I will add all possible references. You can check some of my latest work in Iain Torrance and Flex Linhas Aéreas. Thanks. BRGDS (Brunoptsem (talk) 23:36, 31 March 2010 (UTC))

You need to relax
I think you should give your bot a bit more buffer time on adding warning templates to new articles. Will save you and the editor time, among other things. --Shuki (talk) 23:47, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Re:Thank you
Thanks for the positive feedback. Oddly enough, I just had another editor complaining that I spend too much time creating stubs and should spend more time making more indepth articles; so your comment is very much welcome and timely. :-) I may create stubs and not featured articles, but at least I don't leave a mess for other editors to clean up. I am glad editors like you can appriciate that.4meter4 (talk) 00:43, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * That's great. I'm glad your work is getting positive reception. I actually do write more indepth articles when I have the time, resources, and interest. However, sometimes I just like to do something relatively simple and quick. I think that is why the editor in question is complaining; he likes the results of the articles I spend more time on. I guess in a way that is a compliment. However, I am of the school of thought that a well written and adequately referenced stub is a good addition to the encyclopedia. Some coverage on a notable topic is better than no coverage. Well, best of luck to you and thanks for your hard work patrolling new articles.4meter4 (talk) 00:55, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Trespass in English law
Are you quite sure Hunter v Canary Wharf Ltd is the correct case and link target under "battery"? As far as I can tell from the article, that case has nothing to do with trespass, much less battery or harassment (which involve some actual human-to-human interaction, and such interactions don,t seem to have been much involved in Hunter). Am I missing something? Circéus (talk) 04:55, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The textbooks I've got say so, but given that I can't actually find it in the judgment for Hunter I'm going to go a bit OR-y and remove it. Ironholds (talk) 04:58, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * As a side note, re: separating case citation and general citations, the point is that usually legal article don't give the case citation of mentioned cases at all. The way I see them case citations in your articles are more similar to content notes than formal references, hence the usefulness of making it clear when a footnote is merely the legal citation and when it's a genuine content reference, especially since, if I'm not mistaken, some of those cases are missing the case citation. Circéus (talk) 04:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * They're genuine references where I can find them, otherwise the referencing is covered by the general textbook refs. Ironholds (talk) 05:03, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not too clear whether accumulating a list of legal claims by stringing specific cases' conclusion (which appears to be what you are doing) falls under WP:SYNTHESIS, but that's a bit besides the point. If this is the decision in Hunter v Canary Wharf Ltd, it looks to me as if there was a lengthy aside delving into harassment as private nuisance which was related to a secondary claim not discussed in the article or something along those lines (to be honest, the legal writing in that decision is rather opaque to me compared to the prose I'm used to from those American decisions I've perused, like Strauss v. Horton or Association for Molecular Pathology v. Myriad Genetics, but that's not relevant other than to say my comment is probably wrong). Circéus (talk) 05:15, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * No, as said, the articles are based on the textbooks; including the cases as readily available and more direct resources is the intent. Ironholds (talk) 05:47, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Then I'd argue that indeed (unless you make explicit quotation from the cases), the legal citations are content notes: they are not required to source the material per se (since you do that by way of secondary sources), but are included primarily for the convenience of the readers who might want to dig them out. Although they could be reasonably dropped off (as I've said before, it is not customary at all on WP: to give full case citations of cases merely mentioned), I agree they are useful as content notes given that many are redlinks, and potentially not inherently notable (though it's hard to judge and I have no idea what, if any, is our standard for court cases). Circéus (talk) 06:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * We never really agreed on one, so WP:GNG applies, which is pretty easy to fulfil with some case commentary by way of legal journals. I'm of the opinion that any case which creates new law in a court that can set binding precedent is notable, but most of those would pass GNG anyway for obvious reasons. Ironholds (talk) 07:42, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion for my two articles
Hi Ironhold, I am kinda new with WP, however I have tried to improve my articles (Embedded Wizard and Chora (Programming Language)) e.g. with additional external references. I am a freelance graphics developer and I wrote this article because I often use the tool in my daily work and really enjoy it. In contrast to big commercial tools like Microsoft Silverlight and Adobe Flash, I found "Embedded Wizard" kinda underrepresented at Wikipedia. :-) However, if there is anything more, which can be improved about this article, it would be nice to have your feedback. Thanks in advance. Stherrmann (talk) 15:31, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Charles Abbott, 1st Baron Tenterden
Nice work. Easiest GA of my day so far. You've got a few suggestions on the review page to peruse at your leisure. Nice to see an English Law editor. I don't do much law editing these days but I keep an eye out for an interesting article. Anyway, good work and happy April Fool's day! HJ Mitchell |  April Fool!   19:46, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

GA review for Nuisance_in_English_law
I shall be undertaking the review of this article against the Good Article criteria, per its nomination for Good Article status. If you have any questions or queries don't hesitate to contact me. ✽ Juniper§ Liege  (TALK)  04:18, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Brilliant, thanks! Ironholds (talk) 06:44, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Helene Boullé
Just a friendly note on Helene Boullé. I'm contesting your prod because at least one biography of her exists, which would give an indication that WP:BIO might be met. If you still have concerns, drop me a line and we'll talk. Cheers!-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  22:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Notability
I see you tagged my most recently created article KinoSearch with the notability template. I don't understand why. My article does have a published reference and I tried so hard to find as many news related sources as possible, but couldn't find very many. Even though you haven't proposed a deletion of it, in what way does this article not meet the notability guideline? Minima c  ( talk ) 16:25, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

A1's
I noticed you left a message on this users talk page in regards to a recent CSD nomination of theirs, can you please review this nomination? I don't believe A1 applies but have already declined an A7 speedy that the user placed on the same page previously and don't want this to be seen as edit warring. Jeffrey Mall (talk • contribs) - 13:52, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Checked it; the user seems to have got the message. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Ironholds (talk) 13:57, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Claud Schuster, 1st Baron Schuster
I've made some minor adjustments to the section describing Lord Hewart's speech in the Lords of December 1934. The article as you wrote it gave some quotations that I assume were from Lord Schuster's biographer as if said directly by Lord Hewart. I've amended the article, with citations to Hansard. Opera hat (talk) 13:55, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool beans, thanks! Ironholds (talk) 13:56, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Sanchez
You were slightly premature in this tagging. The article obviously has references, but they were not localized to our citation templates. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 01:03, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Ahh, I didn't see that; I assumed that somebody had been using empty or somehow cackhanded cite tags. My mistakes; apologies. Ironholds (talk) 11:21, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Baker / Judge photo
The photo is on the missus's computer, so I'll try and grab it at the weekend. I thought I had a copy somewhere on my machine or back-up, but apparently not. BencherliteTalk 16:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

My contributions and referencing on Afghanistan topics
Greetings, I'd like to point out that I've done massive amounts of organizational work putting Category:Pashtun tribes into order, filled numerous redlinks, linked the lists of Afghan governors into their respective articles, fleshed them out, etc. Throughout that, I've given clear, hyperlinked, reputable references in the majority of articles I've created. Those articles which happen to not have comprehensive references are generally material already existing on Wikipedia which I've organized better than it previously existed (such as many of the tribal articles), or pure lists of names based on generically available information with no academic interpretation involved. Wikipedia, particularly the Afghan articles, are full of POV IP edits, completely unreferenced long articles, etc. My work is making that better instead of worse, and if a few stubs are unreferenced, let them be marked with an "unreferenced" tag, and either I or some other editor tracking Afghanistan issues will continue to improve them as we continue to improve all Afghanistan coverage. Stability Information East 2 (talk) 20:43, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Pepper v Hart
G'day there, there was just one more thing on Pepper v Hart I wanted to clear up - see the fourth dot point under "prose": Talk:Pepper_v_Hart/GA1. It's a little thing that I would have done myself but I'm not 100% sure. Cheers --Mkativerata (talk) 21:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm just not getting the sentence as it is after your removal. It now says:
 * "In his judgment (issued 24 November 1989), Vinelott decided, based on the act, that "any expense incurred" referred to the average cost of keeping pupils, not the costs of keeping the teachers' children as pupils. Based on the amounts in question, Vinelott decided that the 1/5th paid by the teachers adequately covered the first category, but reversed the Special Commissioners' decision."
 * The first category is the "average cost of keeping pupils" (ie the full cost). If Vinelott decided that the 1/5th adequately covered this category, surely there would be no dispute? I think it might need to say:
 * "In his judgment (issued 24 November 1989), Vinelott decided, based on the act, that "any expense incurred" referred to the average cost of keeping pupils, not the costs of keeping the teachers' children as pupils. Based on the amounts in question, Vinelott decided that the 1/5th paid by the teachers did not adequately cover the first category, so reversed the Special Commissioners' decision."
 * Is this right or am I confused? --Mkativerata (talk) 21:29, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Cheers - it's been passed now. For what it's worth, as I'm sure you'll agree, there is no way this version would have been passed. When I was trawling through the GANs a week or so ago, that's the version I saw! --Mkativerata (talk) 21:43, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * That sounds good. My FA and my current FA projects are both loner exercises, so it would be good to find something to collaborate on. My access to materials is obviously quite Australian-centric (as is my area of specialty), but a common law topic might bridge the divide. I'll have a think - perhaps some ancient principle of contract law? --Mkativerata (talk) 21:53, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Excellent, I'll have a look today to see what I have in the way of the history of contract law. --Mkativerata (talk) 22:01, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Looks good... I'll start digging around today if I have the time at work. --Mkativerata (talk) 22:16, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletions of "WIHL season" articles.
Please stop proding the articles concerning the "WIHL seasons". They are marked as stub articles, and further content will soon be added.Dolovis (talk) 21:41, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Hello, friend
Yeah, I noticed that I had "Autoreview" status today and had to look up what that is. Thanks very much for that, I do appreciate it and it is useful.

I realize that I'm totally pushing the boundaries on one of my current WP projects. We'll see how that turns out: split into 5 articles or transformed into a book.

Thanks though and, really, I do appreciate having a guardian angel. Carrite (talk) 00:49, 7 April 2010 (UTC)


 * re: "I've got access to a load of historical, political and social science-ey journal depositories."


 * Sounds like my house! Carrite (talk) 00:57, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Reply
I have replied on my talk page, sorry for the delay, I don't log in much. — R  2  13:31, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Angel
I think we can use an outside voice or three (but not 75) at Talk:International Socialist Review to arbitrate a proposal to split content of International Socialist Review into three parts and to convert it into a disambiguation page. Best regards, — Tim Carrite (talk) 15:52, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Helplease
i need help adding stuff 2 this page i recently made, this has notability and i added the charts it topped but the page just looks really bland.can u tell me wat i need, heres the link TheDeathKingTheGodfather 21:28, 7 April 2010 (UTC) thanx but how do u make a infobox??--TheDeathKingTheGodfather 21:34, 7 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thedeathking (talk • contribs)

Sorry about that...
The page ACORN community High School, I accidentally clicked "Save Page" instead of "Show Preview" I will continue editing it but, I'll be careful this time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ultraman X77 (talk • contribs) 21:41, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Re: Articles
Thank you for the nice feedback, and for trusting me with the Autoreviewer user right. It's really appreciated coming from a prolific editor like yourself, and it should help the new page patrollers out, too. Thanks again!  Gongshow  Talk 22:50, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha, indeed it is! Cheers,  Gongshow  Talk 23:03, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

GA/FA project
What do you think about good old Donoghue v Stevenson? Being such a seminal case, I'm sure we'll both have tons of sources on it, and it is the law in both our jurisdictions. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:29, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, Rylands v Fletcher looks good too. Attempts to wikilawify the article might meet some resistance though by the looks of things... I'll check out what I can get over the next few days: as you say I'm sure there is tons of Australian material. I should at least look for Canadian and New Zealand stuff as well. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:48, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

St. Andrew's, Blackrock
You tagged St. Andrew's, Blackrock as needing footnotes for precise citation, but I don't understand what is wrong with using the general references at the bottom of the page. Can you give further explanation please? DubhEire (talk) 09:26, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Exchequer of Pleas
Nice work on this article! I was curious — what referencing style do you use? I can't remember encountering one like it before. Nyttend (talk) 13:22, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Oxford Standard Citations for Hodgepodge Articles, I guess. It's sort of like the Harvard style, but with the inline citations in footnotes rather than slap-bang in the middle of the text. Ironholds (talk) 14:12, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

AIV
Hey, I'm clerking AIV for the bots atm (they're all bloody broken!) may I suggest you try WP:RPP first to try and get the page salted. If that doesn't work, by all mean re-report. I'll leave the report up for about half an hour unless there are any new developments. Best, HJ Mitchell  |  Penny for your thoughts?   21:46, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It's worth a try. After all, a block is supposed to be the last resort and it's not some nasty attack page. If you're declined there, I'll strike my comment at AIV. HJ Mitchell  |  Penny for your thoughts?   21:53, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Monte Carlo
Cause it doesn't have one, the reference is the main article. Yes everything comes from the main page form the seeds to the defending champion and the number of player is from the 2010 atp world tour page. Lo que sea. Go to the external links. How come you found a problem with this tennis pages, while an editer named Fram didn't find any. What other editors its only you who have said anything, onyl thing that Kingpin said is according to you not the article. Nope that wasn't it he was just defending you. i don't know why but he was very persistent. wonder. I know what they ask me not to do and taht is not to upload pictures that doesn't have the correct permission not fot my articles. FIN.

Rae'Ven L Kelly
Hi there. You proposed this article for deletion using the WP:BLPPROD process; I have contested the deletion, as I found this source which I believe is acceptable:. If you still feel the article should be deleted, feel free to take it to AFD. Robofish (talk) 22:40, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, that source verifies her filmography. The rest of the content is still unsourced - feel free to remove it if you like, though it's not negative. Also, while the article is now technically sourced, I'm doubtful that she passes the notability guideline for people - so if you wanted to delete the article for reasons of non-notability, I'd support you. Robofish (talk) 22:46, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Joah Tucker
I've contested this one as well - a couple of sources are listed in the external links. As with the article above, he may or may not meet the notability guidelines, but he's ineligible for WP:BLPPROD. Use WP:PROD or WP:AFD instead. Robofish (talk) 22:53, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

"It was bluebell time in Kent"
Hinz v Berry. :)  Roger Davies  talk 10:42, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Haha, that's the blighter! Tell you what, when I get around to writing that, the start of the judgment can be part of the DYK hook :P. Ironholds (talk) 18:18, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Rae'Ven L Kelly
inre Articles for deletion/Rae'Ven L Kelly: The darn thing will need improvement, sure... but thanks for the withdrawal. Best,  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 15:40, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Kurt Meyer
Please flesh out your objection on the Kurt Meyer discussion page here thanks, --Jemesouviens32 (talk) 17:38, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Rylands in the US
I'll have to do a little digging. So to speak. It is not good enough to say that R v F was adopted, or not adopted by state courts in the 19th century. Question is, did they do so later or not, and has the rule in R v F been adopted statutorily. Perhaps I can get hold of some law review articles, I'm not certain, such things on paper are harder and harder to find.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:43, 13 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Got hold of a copy of a Yale Law Journal article from 2000 which discusses R v F in the US. Will absorb it and then get to work editing.  May be several days.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:57, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * That's fine, dude. I'm in exam season, and I've written all the Englaw stuff, so for the time being things are on hold as far as I'm concerned. Feel free to tweak and expand the draft how you want. Ironholds (talk) 15:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Declination of Speedy Delete Washington Student Math Association
I am not the article creator and declined the SD. Morenooso (talk) 07:28, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I suggest you revert your declinations as they can be seen as retalitory. --Morenooso (talk) 07:50, 14 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Very well; my reversions are not, in any way, retaliatory; waiting for your replies by hitting F5 on your contributions page bored me out, so I went clickin'. Ironholds (talk) 07:51, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * This will be an interesting diff. . . --Morenooso (talk) 07:53, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Rylands
It is a significant case in American legal education. I remember reading it in my first year torts class. If I can find a good source that cites it, I'll add some information on its significance in the U.S. -LegalSkeptic (talk) 11:57, 15 April 2010 (UTC)


 * As did I. I have not had time to work much on the draft article, but it is my feeling that there is a need for post-1900 influence by Rylands on American law.  I will also start searching to see if I can find additional information on the background of the case in one of my books on such subjects.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:01, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Update on how I'm going with the Australian stuff: fairly well. I've found some very good critical commentary of how Australian courts have blasted the case out of the precedent books. I've also found quite a lot of New Zealand material in my searches but unfortunately I can't access that... --Mkativerata (talk) 19:26, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Awesome, and dem. If you leave me the links to the NZ stuff I can try and find some stuff. Ironholds (talk) 19:30, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Excellent, I'll try to email you some stuff today. In particular I've found one very good article by an Australian academic panning the Australian and UK courts for wrecking Rylands v Fletcher while praising the US courts for their resurrection of the doctrine. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:32, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Ooh, excellent. I have found access to some NZ case reviews on Rylands, which should say what the current law is. Ironholds (talk) 19:34, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Bearian Rule
Thanks for your quick response, Iron. I'm moving a thought here just for the moment, so as not to overly encumber that page (and scare people off from the conversation). If the rules says: "If possible, one should cite both," then perhaps there is no need for the "the secondary sources are preferred (lay-person friendly) excluding" part of your suggested amendment. The reason is, we are clearly saying that where both are available, one should cite both--so there is no need to choose between the two types of sources.

The second part I think is a great suggestion ... "In situations where they factually conflict, the primary source takes priority for establishing what is/is not true". That, it strikes me, would be the only situation where one would have to "choose".

Does that make sense?--Epeefleche (talk) 20:58, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Works for me. Can I suggest, given the fact that this is likely to occur in legal areas particularly (with the prominence of case reports, court documents and other primary sources) we start discussing how to put it into WP:MOSLAW? Ironholds (talk) 21:05, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. Do you want to raise it there?  Perhaps after revising your suggestion, per the above, and providing a link to that discussion?--Epeefleche (talk) 21:09, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll follow WP:BRD, stick it in and see if anyone complains. Ironholds (talk) 21:12, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Rylands v. Fletcher
Hi Ironholds, this is user:Agradman (I had a friend change the password on my account so I couldn't edit during final exam period. (HAHAHAHAHAHA a lot of good that is doing!!!).)  I'm pleased as punch that you thought of me for helping with the work on Rylands v. Fletcher, but unfortunately it's a bad time with exams and all.

Best of luck. I'll keep the article in mind though.

PS I'm guessing you've looked at this - http://books.google.com/books?q=%22Rylands%20v.%20fletcher%22&btnG=Search%20Books&as_brr=3

128.59.181.211 (talk) 23:04, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course; lots of material there :). Best of luck with the exams, and I hope to see you back editing in a few months. Ironholds (talk) 23:13, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I was intrigued by the side remark on Mason v. Levy and wanted to know more. First I note is that it should apparently be Mason v Levy Auto Parts of England Ltd. Then I came across T. Ellis Lewis (1967) "Liability for Escape of Fire. Rylands v. Fletcher. Fires Prevention (Metropolis) Act 1774" Cambridge Law Journal 25(2):160-16 . As far as I can piece from that short article, it's a peculiar application involving Musgrove v Pandelis where what escapes is fire, and the accumulation bit in Mason (at least the way Lewis puts it) seems to relate distinctly to "Non-natural use" criterion: "[H]e concluded that the defendants' use of their land was non-natural having regard to the quantities of combustible material they brought onto it; the way in which they stored it; and to the character of the neighborhood." I can't tell whether the quantities where a significant factor under the "likely to do mischief if it escapes" criterion, but given the nature of the case, that specific aspect was possibly not even considered. A discussion of this class of cases (a spate is cited in the article) might be warranted. Circéus (talk) 00:08, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Further digging brings up this where the Mason decision is given as arguing that Rylands did not apply to such cases. Circéus (talk) 00:16, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I'll take a look at those, but unless something more recent contradicts the 07 or 08 textbooks I've got it's probably not worth covering in the main article. When I get around to writing the case articles it'll be covered in more detail. Ironholds (talk) 00:18, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * My point (beside the case name error) is rather that Masson seems a peculiar case that might possibly even not be applying the Rylands test, so taking it out might be a simpler approach. Circéus (talk) 01:48, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Mason seems to come under an action for the "case of fire", which does appear to be distinct; I'll remove it. Ironholds (talk) 02:07, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You have an awful amount of red links in there. For example, use Negligence instead of a red link to English law.  I am in the middle of final exams and a fight at AfD, so I can't help much. Bearian (talk) 21:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I'm planning to write the Negligence redlink before publishing the Rylands article, y'know :P. Ironholds (talk) 02:46, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Kana Yazumi
On the talk page of BLPPROD it was agreed that an Amazon source showing person X is the author of a book is enough to remove the BLPPROD tag. If you disagree, please discuss there. Thanks, Hobit (talk) 13:46, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: David Gold (musician)
Hello Ironholds. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of David Gold (musician), a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: '''Member of a band with an article, though admittedly a PRODded one. Relist if the PROD succeeds. I've watchlisted both.''' Thank you. Ged UK  18:53, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be a bit bureaucratic. Ged  UK  18:57, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * That's alright. Point, though: even with Gold's membership, he fails WP:MUSIC. Ironholds (talk) 19:32, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, he'd most likely fail AfD, but not CSD. Ged  UK  07:01, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair play. Ironholds (talk) 07:02, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Serjeant-at-law
Passed Serjeant-at-law at GA. Two things; firstly, if you're using all narrow-format Harvard citations (that is, no long ones) it's always better to use rather than a fixed number of columns, otherwise either viewers with wide monitors get a huge amount of white space, or viewers with narrow monitors get a ludicrously long list if they try to print it out. (I've taken the liberty of changing it; try zooming the window size from narrow to wide and watch what happens.) Secondly, although I've overlooked the issues with File:Old Serjeant's Inn plaque London.jpg as I think the odds of the Corporation of London complaining are zero, be aware that it is undoubtedly uploaded under a false ownership claim and thus could be deleted the moment a Commons admin spots it. – iride  scent  00:13, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Surely there's a freedom of panorama thing here? Although I know in the US that primarily applies to buildings; not sure it'd work here. Ironholds (talk) 04:05, 17 April 2010 (UTC)


 * FoP in the UK is misunderstood; people think it's a blanket right to take photos of "anything outdoors", or "anything on public display", and it's neither. CDPA88 s62—the "freedom of panorama" clause—applies only to buildings, and to "sculptures, models for buildings and works of artistic craftsmanship, if permanently situated in a public place or in premises open to the public". Under English law, a "work of artistic craftsmanship" is narrowly defined and excludes "graphic works"—that is, to be covered the creator must by considered a craftsman and an artist. The test case is Hensher v. Restawhile which enshrined the "intention test"; that is, "did the creator intend to create a work of art?". The tiles photographed at List of tablets on the Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice, for instance, pass the test because they're created by "professional" artists and obviously designed to be decorative, but blue plaques have a weaker claim, as they're all to the same design and intended to be informative rather than decorative.


 * This is why, for instance, London Transport is illustrated with that picture of a bus radiator grille, rather than one of the ubiquitous circle-and-bar roundels—TfL is zealous about enforcing copyright on the roundel—and why photographs of road signs, for instance, are treated as fair-use rather than free-use. – iride  scent  09:28, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Buggeration. Ah well, thanks for your clarification. I'm hopefully doing an LLM in Intellectual Property and European Law at some point, so I guess I'll find out more there. Nice to know that education can work for WP and not just the other way around :P. Ironholds (talk) 09:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't worry about it; CDPA88 is one of those counter-intuitive things that everyone gets caught by at some point. – iride  scent  09:58, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Ahh, fair play. I've got the CIPA guide to the PA77 lying around; I really must write that article one day. Ironholds (talk) 10:17, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Wikiquote
Hi Ironholds. I was wondering, can you copy small quotes from wikiquote? If you do, do you have to attribute them in some sort of way? Please reply--Theologiae (talk) 12:15, 17 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh no no, that was a misunderstanding. The author thought it was a copyright issue, but it wasn't. If you don't believe me, see talk:Italian Renaissance arts and culture. Anyway, is just providing a link fine?--Theologiae (talk) 12:23, 17 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Another thing. I do not have a long history of copyright problems. I have only gotten into 3 formal, and all very minor, copyright issues.--Theologiae (talk) 12:29, 17 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, but as you'll see, only one of the copyright warnings was actually (and still isn't, in my opinion) valid. The two others were interpretation mistakes. Please refrain from making judgements and preconceptions before actually knowing things better. 99% of the questions I asked you about copyright were before I did them, except a few. Look, I'm actually beginning to get, nearly, scared about all this copyright talk. I've read so many pages about what to do, what not to do, and etc. but every day I find out something new, and I don't remember whether I took that into consideration in the past. But, I will not accept to be called an editor with a long problematic history, and now a message which says so on my talk page, which is not very attractive. I will try to be kind to you, since you were kind to me, yet it seems just because I asked you a lot of copyright questions that you have taken me for an editor with a long history. So, first, could you answer the first question, and second of all, look at the edit contributions and history very carefully before making demeaning and reputation-ruining judgements, even with good intention. Thank you, and reply--Theologiae (talk) 12:51, 17 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, if you have answered my question, please tell me it again. Secondly, I'm not denying, I have a history, but it's not a long and incredibly problematic one as you want to put. As I said, you cannot say things unless you look at them very carefully. Pre-conceptions are very easy to make. Reply--Theologiae (talk) 13:20, 17 April 2010 (UTC)


 * [[Image:Bye.gif|thumb|900px|right|It'll be hard to leave my favourite place, yet I feel that I need to.]]

Ironholds, I'm officially going to tell you that today (April 17) I will be leaving Wikipedia. It has been a great experience, but I have to move on. Editing has been great fun (with the occasional exception). Yet, since I have been accused of several things, and am a bit worried about making serious mistakes, I feel it is time for me to move on. It will be hard; I have got to know this encyclopedia very well, and have become very fond of it, yet there are some things that slightly worry me. I am a child, and Wikipedia maybe is not the best environment for children (I love the environment, yet it is not suited for me).

I will contact a few editors, make my last edits, and after today I will leave.

But thank you for having made this a joy. I will always remember your help.

I hope the best for you.

Goodbye--Theologiae (talk) 13:36, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Links added to Sri Sivan Temple
Hi, Pls check and let me know if the links added will suffice. Thanks in advance. Thaejas (talk) 04:10, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Cambridge Water Co Ltd v Eastern Counties Leather plc
The article Cambridge Water Co Ltd v Eastern Counties Leather plc you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Cambridge Water Co Ltd v Eastern Counties Leather plc for things which need to be addressed. S Masters (talk) 12:47, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Abdul-Adeem Karjimi
I was simply showing the fact that he wore the number 7 kit with his career at Al-Nasr.

--Salalah4life (talk) 11:16, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Sruwaddacon Bay
Comhar (talk) 11:35, 19 April 2010 (UTC) Hi, I notice you put an unreferenced thingy on my article on Sruwaddacon Bay the day I first put it on. I've worked on it since and I think its fairly well referenced now. Can I take off the unreferenced note or will you do it, if you think its referenced OK so far. I'll keep my eye on the article and keep improving it as I can. Thanks. Comhar

hi!
I'm traying to rectify wrong information about winner of a Rose d'ore but I'm new here and dont understand a lot of rules here.. Wrong link for a Pyramid is in text Rose d'ore... Tnx, CMM —Preceding unsigned comment added by Castor Multimedia (talk • contribs) 12:59, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * First, please read WP:COI. The article has been deleted because it was a copyright infringement of text at the Rose D'Or website. Ironholds (talk) 13:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Hy, no, sorry but it wrong. The Pyramid from UK (on what link was placed) did not win Rose d'Or. The Pyramid from Croatia - our project won Rose d'Or 2007. I'm trying to fix that information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Castor Multimedia (talk • contribs) 13:30, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * That's fair enough; since the current article on the UK Pyramid doesn't contain that assertion, and the Rose d'Or article doesn't either, it's effectively "fixed". If you are trying to create na article about the Croatian Pyramid, you need to write one that isn't a violation of copyright. Ironholds (talk) 13:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Ironholds, I still have your page on watch from the help you gave us with the GAR for Dido and Aeneas. Anyhow, I got intrigued by the above exchange and have created a proper article (albeit a stub) on this show. It's at The Pyramid (Croatian TV series). I've fixed the link at Rose d'Or, and I'll let User:Castor Multimedia know. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 15:35, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoops! They just got blocked for a having spammy username. I'll still leave a message in case they check their talk page. Voceditenore (talk) 15:50, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Brilliant, thanks dude! And sadface :(. If you really want to help out, I've got an FAC that's rather dead; I don't know if that says good or bad things about my articel skillz. Ironholds (talk) 21:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The results of the Pepper v Hart FAC says a lot about the backlog there rather than the article. It's not really my area of expertise, so can't be much help I'm afraid. Actually, Croatian TV shows aren't my area of expertise either. Don't know what possessed me... Best, Voceditenore (talk) 17:24, 20 April 2010 (UTC) PS. I'm a "dudette" :) Voceditenore (talk) 17:24, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Cambridge Water Co Ltd v Eastern Counties Leather plc
The article Cambridge Water Co Ltd v Eastern Counties Leather plc you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Cambridge Water Co Ltd v Eastern Counties Leather plc for eventual comments about the article. Well done! S Masters (talk) 07:24, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Smashing, thanks! Ironholds (talk) 07:25, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Revert
Please take a careful look at my modest edit to Court of Chancery. Is it really so bad? Comment on the talk page where I left an explanatory note. Abductive (reasoning) 15:12, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I will do so. And yes, it was. Ironholds (talk) 15:40, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Dude
Hey dude. Check this You put a CSD on AFC Energy plc. I suggest you might try n remove it yourself.   ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪    ―Œ  ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣  10:28, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Talkback
Man, I like totally disagree with your CSD. How can you place a CSD when you have thousands of Google Search links screaming about notability? But it's your call.   ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪    ―Œ  ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣  10:34, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Yippeee!!! :) :) :) Champ, my apologies if I rubbed you the wrong way. Arrivedercci :)   ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪    ―Œ  ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣  10:42, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
 * and whaddayaknow! :) Don't freak. I've made it a lil notable.  ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪    ―Œ  ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣  11:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Royal Society Medals
Hi, appreciate you "talking" rather than just reverting. I take your point that maybe the mention of Angela Merkel is a bit too specific to fit. However, I do think that if the article mentions the Copley Medal, it is surely appropriate also to mention the KCII medal? Perhaps we could just remove the Angela Merkel reference (although we are quite pleased that she came here to accept it ;-)

We could create a separate entry, as you suggest, in addition. PointOfPresence (talk) 13:24, 22 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, on re-reading the entry, I can see your point. It's not really meant to be an exhaustive coverage of the medals. I shall get someone here to put a list together. PointOfPresence (talk) 09:20, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, so if you're really volunteering to put a list page together, that would be great! The medals page on our site is here. Each medal has a link to a descriptive page about that medal. Thanks PointOfPresence (talk) 15:40, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, there already seems to be such a listing here  PointOfPresence (talk) 11:03, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I obviously misunderstood your original point! That'll teach me to skim read. Actually the KCII medal has only been awarded three times. The recipients are here Thanks. PointOfPresence (talk) 09:46, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

FYI
You might want to weigh in here. --causa sui (talk) 17:54, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

K Bala1055
hi

Pls let me know what errors were found in the article.Kasi Visalakshi-Viswanathar temple. Let me know how to correct them

03:25, 23 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kbala1055 (talk • contribs)

Article "General Oi"
Hi iron... i dont understand why my article should be deleted ? Why is the reason behind ? I have received your message, but i dont understand enough. Please explain. Thanks. Kungkang (talk) 07:43, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Article deletion
Hello Ironhand. I don't understand why my article was deleted. It concerned a significant event and I struggle to see why it is any less valid than the article Carzone. Any guideance delivered in a respectful manner would be greatly appreciated, thanks. Bmcgran (talk) 00:08, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Hello there. Hope you don't mind me answering. Ironholds seems to be away, you see. First of all please refer to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Just because we have another article that exists, that does not justify the inclusion of your article. Secondly, I believe the Carzone article does not satisfy our website notability guidelines (found at WP:WEB) either, so I have nominated it for deletion. Regards, Aditya Ex Machina  08:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to add to what Aditya said -- as the essay indicates, "While these comparisons are not a conclusive test, they may form part of a cogent argument; an entire comment should not be dismissed because it includes a comparative statement like this."--Epeefleche (talk) 08:28, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You asked for a guideline to be pointed out respectfully, and the one that trumps all is WP:NOTE. Basically, it outlines that an article must cite multiple, reliable, independent sources in order to meet Wikipedia's definition of notability and have an article. かんぱい！ Scapler (talk) 08:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree that that is the main thing one should focus on.--Epeefleche (talk) 08:45, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: Just realized that Ironholds doesn't reply on his own talk page, so I was wrong when I said he was away. Aditya Ex Machina  11:57, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

The Orphan template
AWB likes to do things like this to articles that are only linked from 3 or less articles. (BTW, I am not on IRC anymore, so I need to use this) User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 18:30, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, I know; I just find it deeply frustrating. When you have things like Acts of Parliament repealed 50 years ago there's only so many places they are useful. Ironholds (talk) 21:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Referencing
Maybe it's not intentional, or it's a bot doing this "Friendly" thing, but please stop adding unreferenced tags to articles I create. Case reports are references. You have a judge sitting in court, and the judge says something, and then the reporting company reports what the judge has said. So that is a secondary source, and a reference. I'm not interested in an argument, I just want you to stop adding unreferenced tags.  Wik idea  10:18, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, so you've referenced it to case reports? Lets see. this gives an OSCOLA citation which provides no context and is useless to the layman. this has no footnotes. this links to bailii in the infobox without ever suggesting that it's being used as a reference; this does the same thing. Ironholds (talk) 10:52, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mosley v United Kingdom‎‎
You are invited to join the discussion |here. Mootros (talk) 20:25, 27 April 2010 (UTC) (Using )

Trespass in English law
Hi Ironholds,

I added a tag to a statement in Trespass in English law a while back which you undid. The fact I was questioning was that licence to be on land is 'irrevocable'. It seems very unlikely to me that if a landowner once gives someone permission to be on his land he can never revoke that permission. I however wasn't certain so took the cautious step of adding a fact tag.

It's not clear to me which ref is the one that support this or to tell the truth how to make sense of most of the rather terse refs for that article. Are you sure that this is right:

"There are several defences to trespass to land; license, justification by law, necessity and jus tertii. License is express or implied permission, given by the possessor of land, to be on that land. These licenses are irrevocable unless there is a flaw in the agreement or it is given by a contract. Once revoked, a license-holder becomes a trespasser if they remain on the land."

If so I'd be grateful if you could expand on the supporting ref for me.

Regards,

IanOfNorwich (talk) 21:13, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

No offense meant
Cool off :P Leonig Mig (talk) 16:47, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Cambridge Water Co Ltd v Eastern Counties Leather plc
Materialscientist (talk) 08:02, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Comment on Vera Baker AfD
"We're talking a paper which earlier today claimed that the tories wanted a 19.5% VAT hike - before almost immediately retracting the claims after finding out they were unfounded."

Wait, the Heil said something bad about the Tories? Am I in a bizarro universe here? Granted, they're only the Mail's third-favourite party (after the BNP in first and UKIP in second), but still, they're so far up Cameron's ass they wouldn't print a word against the Tories. Sceptre (talk) 21:13, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
 * They were reprinting a mirror article (which shows exactly how reputable they are) and the mirror = way left. Ironholds (talk) 00:10, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Banshee PHP
Hi there Ironholds, just letting you know that I removed the prod tag from the article because the editor protested deletion on the talk page. They claim that they are adding "more information very soon". You might want to suggest to them what sort of information might indicate notability. Or, just try WP:AFD instead. Just letting you know, thanks! --  At am a  頭 22:43, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

dude why do you care? just sharing my opinion - Limpbizkit1848 (talk) 12:04, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Sovereignty of Parliament
Came across an essay on Parliamentary Sovereignty last night that you might like, if you've not yet encountered it:
 * "The Sovereignty of Parliament—form or substance?" – Anthony Bradley
 * Published in:

AGK  23:41, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Ooh, nice! I've got my briefing in about a month; I'll spend the next few weeks after that scrabbling for sources. I'll be sure to look the essay up. Ironholds (talk) 00:26, 5 May 2010 (UTC)


 * When you get a second, would you mind checking over for me? I'm looking to send it to GA when it's ready.  AGK   19:49, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, that needs some srs expanding. There are additional prerogative powers, and there's a lot more case law than is present in the articles. I'll take a look at it early next week and see what I can do to expand it. Ironholds (talk) 05:28, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I was working from a single, and quite limited, source. I'm hoping to get additional sources this week (along with those UCTA ones). AGK   09:57, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool beans! I've started a draft up at User:Ironholds/prog; I'll work on it a bit this afternoon gathering sources and the like, then expand as I can. There are a few procedural tweaks I need to make first; alphabetising the bibliography, italicising case names, that sort of nonsense, then I'll get on to the expansion. Ironholds (talk) 16:00, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I went to alphabetise the bibliography, and really could not be bothered. Rewriting this entire article, including all the fiddly little formatting pieces, in two days has kind of drained me of energy. :) AGK   16:37, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I know the feeling :(. Check out Patrick Hastings, took me about 6 months because I got bored with it. At the same time, Court of Chancery was a solid day of hardcore work. Ironholds (talk) 16:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I see you've been making progress on your userspace save of Royal Prerog. in the UK. I've been expanding the mainspace version. It might be difficult to reconcile the two, but I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. AGK   00:44, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * PS: I much prefer your heading structure to mine. Guess I'm newer to this 'actually doing mainspace work' thing than I first thought. :) AGK   00:46, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh, thanks! Don't worry about it - you should have seen my first Featured candidate *shudder*. Ironholds (talk) 00:57, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you have access to Cases in Constitutional Law (Keir and Lawson) part II, Essays (Heuston) ch. 3, or Our Republican Constitution (Tomkins) ch. 3? Those resources apparently have valuable accounts of the history of the prerogative. I don't have immediate access to any of these, though I could probably get them quite easily. AGK   17:23, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and if you at all do portals, I'm slowly working on prettifying the Law portal: Portal:Law/sbox. I contributed with another editor on Portal:Scotland a while back. Getting that to featured status was quite painless. A revamp of the portal is your opportunity to sneakily exhibit Court of Chancery, Gray's Inn, Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, and all those lovely other things to our readers. :) AGK   17:44, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Ooh, you flatterer you :P. May I recommend User:Bencherlite? He is A) a barrister, B) experienced at working up the Oxford portal and C) unfailingly charming. Can't go wrong there. Ironholds (talk) 19:33, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

UK Court document as source
Hi, you briefly commented on one of my RS/N posts and were referred to as an "expert" on matters of UK law, but alas the debate continues. The matter in dispute is whether a one page Court document from the UK stating "It is ordered that said petition be dismissed" is an adequate source for supporting the statement "The petition was dismissed". A copy of the document in question is available here -. On the RS/N other editors are claiming the document is unusable as the statement would involve interpreting the document and be WP:OR. It's my opinion no interpretation or OR is needed to state the petition was dismissed. Your learned opinion appreciated - Reliable_sources/Noticeboard
 * --Insider201283 (talk) 21:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input. The editor removing the fact and source the case was dismissed continues to do so and has not responded to your suggestion on RS/N. May I suggest I send you the document and it's accompanying covering letter for you to confirm? Or how do I send to OTRS? --Insider201283 (talk) 12:29, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * See OTRS. Ironholds (talk) 19:00, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

SnapComms
You've previously nominated SnapComms for speedy deletion. I've now prodded that article. If you wish to reply, please do so on my talk page.  Schwede 66  01:34, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

the Labour party leadership race 2010
Brown announced that he would resign and asked the Party to prepare a leadership race. This is NOT speculative. The timeline, which was there for the 2007 race was the model for this one. Feel free to edit it beyond recognition, but don't delete it only to have someone start it up again.Ericl (talk) 18:50, 10 May 2010 (UTC)