User talk:IvanStario

You have been blocked for 1 week for move warring on National Liberation War of Macedonia with the intent of pushing a non neutral point of view. &rArr;   SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  18:38, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Why you did this? If you have some questions, please ask? It was not edit war? Who define this as a non neutral point of view? Who was my opponent?--IvanStario 18:45, 13 September 2007 (UTC) The right translation of Борба in "Народноослободителна Борба на Македонија (НОБ)" - Struggle. Please, find it in Macedonian (Serbian, Bulgarian even Russian) dictionaries and then I'll expect your apologizes.--IvanStario 18:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I hope that you are a honest man and it is not necessery to write you from other IP. Please, write me.--IvanStario 18:55, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not familiar with this particular dispute; for the record, though, please bear in mind that literal translation is rarely a good idea -- most languages have enough idioms, context issues, and implications that going directly from one to the other tends to produce errors. When this block expires or is lifted, I'd encourage you to suggest and discuss such a significant exchange on the article's talk page, prior to making the move (if you agree to do so, now, it might help get this block lifted). – Luna Santin  (talk) 19:42, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer and please pardon me about my bad English. I did not expected some objections, when I moved the article, because I thouth that it is clear for the people who know the South Slavic languages. Ofcource, I will put this question in the discussion page and I'll move the article only after one week - if there are not serious objections.--IvanStario 19:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

About the literal translation - you are right, but I think that this case is different. The term "war" has its certain meaning. Not without reason the greek word Αγῶν (=Slavic борба) is translated as Struggle in the name of the article Greek Struggle for Macedonia. However I'll write this in the discussion page if somebody has objection and if you help me with this block. Thanks in advance.--IvanStario 20:03, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Did you move the article without attempting to promote discussion on the idea of moving it first? Even so, admins should assume good faith, it was seemingly a genuine misunderstanding. I will look into it for you. By the way, you write English very well so I haven't attempted to make my comments extra-simple, if you need me to just let me know :) SGGH speak! 20:55, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I can understand the POV accusation. The term "struggle" is more POV than "war", and even though you say it was just a mistake as you didn't understand policy, you did move it a few times. A week does seem a bit excessive in my opinion. However I will ask the blocking admin to take a look. SGGH speak! 21:00, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! I hope that you will be unprejudiced. I know that it is not easy to argue with administrator, but my oppinion is that he was too hasty. I did not move few times. I moved the page once and then I fixed my own ortography mistake in the name of the article (strugle-struggle). There was not revert on the move meanwile. I am trying to be civilized user and I am not a vandal. Honestly, I did not expect such "attack" and therefore I did not discuss my move in the discussion page. But my "mistake" could be fix by only one properly question/message, not by blocking --IvanStario 22:29, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Blocking admin's explanation
User has made consistently POV edits on Macedonian articles. User made an un-discussed move of the article, the page was reverted and moved back, and then user moved it again. This page had just 3 days ago came off full protection. We are having extreme problems with Macedonian vs. Bulgarian nationalism on this article. A prior warning would just have devolved into a fight. &rArr;   SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  21:38, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Let me reiterate: the move was not at all discussed, and the page had just recently come off of protection. After the page move was reverted, the user moved it again. &rArr;    SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  21:42, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Please, loook there . You will see that I moved the page once. Then I fixed my own ortography mistake in the name of the article - struggle with double "g". This edit was in my own edit (move). The move was not reverted and again moved back by me. You just blocked me without attemption to warning or explain something before blocking.
 * If you asserts that I had made POV edits on Macedonian articles, please quote in how many edit wars I involvolved. I had only one argue in the article Yane Sandanski where the both sides agreed and my edit remained. If you know the problems with Macedonian articles you will agree that this is not easy.
 * Maybe it would be better if I attempted to discuss my edit in the relevant page, but I did not expect some objections The both sides - the adherents and the opponents of this "war" know very well what means "борба". This term "strugle" is the official term in historiography in Republic of Macedonia. The Bulgarian scientists do not use the term "war". I did not expect some objection by both "waring" sides, but I recieved them by administrator - after blocking.--IvanStario 22:05, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Please be fair: You did not revert the move between my first move and the fixing - strugle-strugle. I did two moves in general (first and fixing the word), but meanwhile you did not revert the move. There was not some edit war.--IvanStario 22:43, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Anything you are saying, regardless of whether it is even true, is irrelevant. You moved the page twice without discussion, including after being reverted. You obviously have a POV that you wish to engage in, and as soon as the page unprotects, you blindly come in and make an undiscussed move. Not gonna fly pal. &rArr;   SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  22:57, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Since we have this argue, obviously both of us think that some words of actions ot the other are irrelevant. Let try to make a difference between personal view and the facts. The problem is not my "POV" (as you claim), the problem here is the quick retribution with me. It is true that I moved the name of the article without discussion, but it is all my mistake. Everybody can see that I did not moved it again after Mike Rosoft's reverting the move. I did nothing after that. It is not humiliation to confess a mistake. I did it. Can you do it?--IvanStario 23:22, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. As I see now, the page was protected 29 hours before my move. However, from where you know that I "wish to engage in, and as soon as the page unprotects"? Presumption about guiltiness?--IvanStario 23:46, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree that a one-week block is a bit too severe in this case. So let's try this: do you promise not to make major and potentially controversial edits to articles without discussing them on the appropriate talk page first? (And note that "discuss" doesn't mean "state your point and then go ahead with your edit".) If you do, I (or another admin) may remove or shorten your block; however, should you continue edit warring after the unblock, you will likely be immediately blocked again, perhaps for an even longer amount of time. - Mike Rosoft 11:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I am ready to do this. I was ready to do this without blocking. I want to make one stipultation - I can not predict every time potentially controversial edit. I am agree that the change of the name is potentially controversial edits (this was my mistake), but I am talking about other edits. I never been in some edit war (I am here from two weeks), but I am learning from the other contributurs. I want only one - equivalent, moderate treatment to everybody. If the practice is to contact with them, please do it with me. If the practice is first to warning them, warning me too - if somebody thinks that I am not right. I want to respect the ruls of Wikipedia, and I ask to respect me. I ask to avoid treatment like I am some real or potential "criminal".
 * With one sentence: I'll try conscientiously to do what you suggest, but I do not asking for mercy, I asking for justice. Whatever is your decision I wish you and everybody here (including Swatjester) successes, patience and happiness. Regards,--IvanStario 12:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, I have unblocked you. For your interest, the article National Liberation War of Macedonia is currently protected from editing and moves; feel free to contribute to discussion at its talk page. - Mike Rosoft 12:54, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you. You return my beliefe in the ruls in Wikipedia. I'll try to justify your hopes.--IvanStario 13:00, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not very familiar with the techinical side, but it seems that I am still blocked. Should I do something special to have opportunity to edit (unprotected) articles/discussion pages?--IvanStario 13:50, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You may have been caught in an automatic block of your IP address which I forgot to remove; it should have expired by now. - Mike Rosoft 07:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Romania
--Codrin.B (talk) 06:10, 21 January 2012 (UTC)