User talk:Izno/Archive 10

Question
Since you seem to understand tech-related stuff much better than I do, I was wondering if you have any idea what the "other edits" tag is for? I noticed it popping up a lot the past few days but clicking on it leads to recent changes that have tagged edits like that, which isn't a very good explanation. Clovermoss 🍀 (talk) 20:47, 8 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @Clovermoss, that's really all it is, a link to other changes with that tag. You can see the local reaction at WP:VPT. Izno (talk) 21:06, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for linking that discussion. I was trying to figure out what all the tagged edits had in common and I do now. I'm with the people who don't understand the usefulness of it. Clovermoss 🍀  (talk) 21:09, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I have personally literally clicked the link when I've seen a tag link thinking I'll end up at a list of tags. And when it's been unlinked I've thought "why can't I see the list". Izno (talk) 22:53, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

css pages for Signpost templates
Are you just going through and fixing them? Based if true. They have been needing that for a while! I will give some warning, though: I am cleaning out some of the older ones that aren't used for anything, so you might want to check WhatLinksHere before revamping one (if you aren't already). Nice work! jp×g 06:10, 17 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @JPxG, no, there was one specific template that was driving me up the wall on the Arab article from yesterday (-block, which is used by one of the image templates, not -block-v2 [?!? :]). A 5em padding is excessive when you're working with not a lot of total screen space in a mobile context. Izno (talk) 06:27, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for showing me how to have the "more options" menu stuck open and making just one click enough to get to the login page! Utfor (talk) 20:26, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Coldwell
In hindsight, filing an SPI would have been faster and more effective, but I didn't initially have the same knowledge I gained as the ANi unfolded and I added bits: followup and explanation here. Thanks again for dealing with a situation that was messier than need be. Is it possible to have a clerk create Sockpuppet investigations/Doug Coldwell with a link to the ANI, should it be needed for future reference? Sandy Georgia (Talk)  15:05, 19 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @SandyGeorgia, I can file a pro forma. A few things on the plate so it might be a day or two. Izno (talk) 21:53, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks again! Bst, Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  21:54, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @SandyGeorgia, now archived at Sockpuppet investigations/Doug Coldwell/Archive. Izno (talk) 23:26, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Reorganizing the skin RfC
After discussing it with other editors I added the "support", "oppose", "neutral", and "RfC discussion" subsections, and sorted comments into those. I put yours into that last one and wanted to ask if that's cool or if you want it to go elsewhere. --Kiz o r  22:22, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * , my oppose !vote was deleted from the page by you or someone else. I have restored it. Please check to ensure that you have not deleted anyone else's votes during this reorganization. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:54, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Wasn't me, but I'm carrying out a close inspection. --Kiz o r  00:02, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It looks like that editor saved through an edit conflict, either detected or undetected. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:36, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Stay off my page
Wiki is open source and you don't work for Wiki. I have not broken any rules nor am I posting anything irrelevant to the "discussion" on a talk page. Your actions are abusive all users have the same block powers as other users. You should be reported for abusive removal or rescinding content that does not break rules and also for threatening other users.

Grow up because peer discussions are relevant to all. Didn't they teach you that in college or have you not attended? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prose072 (talk • contribs) 04:48, 21 January 2023 (UTC)


 * agreed 208.75.174.239 (talk) 04:46, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

What to do?
Can you take a look at Template:Taliban insurgency detailed map? I wanted to tag it for speedy deletion but I could figure out which CSD was the appropriate one. Since you seem active on TfD, I figure you'd know what to do here.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 22:03, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

FYI
I've uncovered a conclusive/convincing bit of evidence confirming the Coldwell sock investigation. I'd prefer to keep it to myself (best not to reveal tells). In any event, should a new sock investigation surface, I'd then be willing to share the tell with CUs. Bst, Sandy Georgia (Talk)  21:10, 29 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @SandyGeorgia, you can email it for me to put on CU wiki. Izno (talk) 22:23, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd rather not ... bad past experiences have taught me to keep tells close. :) I will know when/if you need it, and will send then. Sandy Georgia  (Talk)  22:38, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @SandyGeorgia, just don't want anyone to get hit by a bus. Izno (talk) 22:42, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Good point :) I'll think about it. But I would sure hate for the beans to spill ... Sandy Georgia (Talk)  22:46, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Nice find on that. Izno (talk) 23:32, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Ha! I half expected you to tell me you already had that, 'cuz I'm such a dork. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  23:44, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Just a heads up about Parsoid Cite CSS requests
You may have seen the latest edition of Tech News but if not, just a heads up about it. Let me know if you (or other enwiki editors) want to handle that or if I should on my own. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 19:03, 1 February 2023 (UTC)


 * @SSastry (WMF), why do the script rules use exact  when the recent discussion used contains  ? I want to make sure I understand the assumptions. Exact is better for selection, but the fact that wasn't what was used then leaves me thinking you might insert other items into these   attributes. Izno (talk) 00:46, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Good spot! The "~=" comes from defensive coding to protect against presence of multi-valued rel attributes. However, references output in Cite is a much narrower domain and the likelihood of them getting multi-valued rel attributes is very small. So, we are likely to continue with exact attributes. We'll probably document in the Cite extension (in parsoid) that if ever that changes, we'll need to update CSS rules on wikis. Will update you if we decide to change the exact to ~= now. But, let us proceed with the assumption that we are using exact matches. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 17:56, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks! Izno (talk) 18:01, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, I'm fairly certain  is already a global rule, but that should be a global rule regardless and not something for every wiki to add. Izno (talk) 00:50, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, that will go on server-side css files and need not be added to the wiki's Common.css. I may just suppress it for now in our visualdiff testing repo to avoid confusion. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 17:58, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Probably should. Though my eyes jumped over it the first time, might save some bandwidth somewhere or another. Izno (talk) 18:01, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @SSastry (WMF), one more, tangentially related. I notice that the "up arrow" in VE links pertaining to this discussion do not contain, which makes them more accessible, as   in CSS is not guaranteed to be read out in accessibility agents. This is a delta from read-mode Cite today. See the DEF reference in my sandbox. There is a similar full span for the other links in the multiple use reference. Izno (talk) 18:14, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * And this is probably something to assess for mw-ref elements as well, given what you've asked to have added in Common.css. Izno (talk) 19:10, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * We can fix that up in Parsoid's Cite implementation. Should be a straightforward fix. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 19:11, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Filed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T328695 SSastry (WMF) (talk) 19:13, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Izno: I noticed you already updated Commons.CSS for enwiki. Thanks! I have a followup request. Based on testing while trying to update CSS on different wikis, I ended up moving CSS for "standard" refgroups (lower-alpha, lower-roman, etc.) out of the default CSS in Cite (since those defaults were from using enwiki as our testbed which is obviously not the right solution for many other wikis). As a result, all wikis that use these refgroups and had defined messages will need to update their Common.css for these groups. So, the new and updated CSS is here (this link has been updated in the Cite CSS page on mediawiki.org as well). You will need to do another round of updates. Also, do you mind adding yourself to the Cite CSS page as a wiki that is updating this yourself? SSastry (WMF) (talk) 05:39, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Addendum: That cite patch I linked above will go on the train next week. So, if you were testing and seeing no difference today, that is the reason -- the default CSS being served is still good for enwiki till that patch rolls out. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 05:44, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I thought this might happen. Yes, I'll update shortly. @SSastry (WMF), thought of another thing: this content will also need to be added to MediaWiki:Mobile.css, as that still loads mutually exclusive to MediaWiki:Common.css. You will want to update the relevant instructions and/or let dewiki know about that as well.
 * Does what I've added at mw:Parsoid/Parser Unification/Cite CSS/Wikis that will change it by themselves make sense, and, if it does, does it make sense to post any further requests solely at MediaWiki talk:Common.css? Izno (talk) 22:14, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Reg Mobile.css, yes, it already came up from dewiki folks. We may end up asking for both common.css and mobile.css to be updated and will update the instructions on the page once we finalize. In reality, it is me and other members of my team who will end up doing this for all wikis except dewiki & enwiki. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 04:19, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

@SSastry (WMF), went to add the new set of CSS to Common.css and the edit window raised an error for  being invalid, which led to T217775, which indicates the CSS is very new to several browsers. MDN confirms that indication: Safari still doesn't support it, Chromium's support is fairly recent, and Opera's is not much older than Chromium's.

What is the fallback for old but otherwise supported browsers for this CSS? I would guess decimal or w/e the old versions of those browsers localize basic &lt;ol> to for the language of the page, but you should probably know that and possibly have fallback CSS appropriate for the wikis which have a block referencing.

Separately, that specific block of CSS looks more like what should be output in the event of software testing or a system error. I don't think "first" "second" "last" would be something I would expect in the real world for &lt;ol> styles. Are we sure that's something necessary to add for English and the few other languages where the script caught and created  in that script? Izno (talk) 04:42, 13 February 2023 (UTC)


 * A couple other notes, since you have inspired some testing:
 * This CSS actually causes a change in rendering for read-mode references with the relevant groups in the reference list top level list items from decimal to the other group (check out User:Izno/Sandbox in read mode and in VE edit mode for the second reference group). I think the change is welcome, but it's something to track for when read-mode Parsoid is deployed.
 * The CSS this script generates uses the single colon version of pseudo-elements. I would generally recommend changing to the double colon version as all grade C browsers support the double colon version. While most probably support the other and will likely support it into the arbitrary future, there is no guarantee of such.
 * Izno (talk) 04:57, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * About 1k pages using the lower-alpha version directly. I'd guess that's about the right number. Izno (talk) 06:04, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Izno: thanks for the detailed report.
 * Regarding browser support, yes, this is known and missing Safari support is the biggest issue. I added a comment on Webkit bug report to see if we can get any resolution there. I also tweaked my scripts to use the data from w3c test results page to reduce the use of custom counter styles where possible. Even so, there will be wikis where reference number localization will not work with the custom counter styles on safari. We haven't yet resolved how to handle that but yes we are trying to figure out what our strategy will be.
 * Regarding the error-test counters, I don't know where those messages are used, but since those existed, I had my script generate equivalent CSS for now. I can look and see where those are used and if they are some stale thing left behind OR actively used somewhere. If not used, then it would be good cleanup to stop generating them.
 * Reg the change in rendering fot the lower-alpha and upper-alpha groups, looks like I missed some cleanup in Cite's CSS rules. I will take a look and submit a patch (*unless* it is indeed considered a desirable change across wikis that use the lower-alpha and upper-alpha groups -- even so, those CSS rules are probably better added to the wiki's Common and Mobile CSS files.).
 * As for the use of single vs. double colon. there are CSS linters currently deployed that fail CI jobs if I use the double-colon version. So, in all the Cite extension, till we upgrade the linting rules for CSS, I will have to use a single colon. I did have a patch to clean that up but had to abandon it for now.
 * SSastry (WMF) (talk) 15:57, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @SSastry (WMF), regarding #4, I think if you poked Volker (who recently did T305111) you could probably get that lint fixed quick and/or the inverse linter added (using pseudo element selectors only with double colons).
 * That aside, I was more interested in fixing what your script generates for wikis to add than what ends up upstream, which doesn't look like it should hit any linters since you're not placing the generated content in a .css/.less/.vue file....? Izno (talk) 20:20, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Ack reg both. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 20:25, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Reg the error test labels, I asked around and Sam Walton dug around and traced it to Help talk:Cite link labels - something Edokter created as a test. Since that was left behind, it then made its way to different wikis (!). So, I am going to simply get rid of this error group from my output. It will mean that the test page I referenced above will not render with Parsoid, but I expect that is not a concern. Whether you all want to delete that message is something for you to consider. Thanks for asking the question while let me to poke further because I had been wondering what this error-test business was but since it was on so many wikis, I didn't bother looking further. :) SSastry (WMF) (talk) 14:45, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Cool, I will not migrate that one then. Izno (talk) 17:00, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @SSastry (WMF), I'm seeing an off by one error here. I note a fair handful of your recent commits on gerrit have content that might be related but nothing of which looks like it's intended to touch en.wp. Take a look at the state of the sandbox today. Izno (talk) 00:10, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Might be related to some Cite patches that rode last week's train. Will take a look today. Was away from work last few days. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 15:34, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Yup, caused by https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/extensions/Cite/+/887435 ... I will need to update the script to use the "0" init for wikis that used lower-alpha and other alphabetic counters for named-ref linkbacks. So, for enwiki, you would need to update the CSS for the  to include   (The 0 can be skipped if you want, but I like it being explicit). SSastry (WMF) (talk) 20:15, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @SSastry (WMF), now I have duplicate letter a displays. :) Izno (talk) 20:34, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Ugh, sorry! I need to better understand the difference between decimal and alphabetic counter types. Let me get it right and will get back to you with the right fix. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 20:44, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually, I see what I said wrong. You need a   I went back to my local test and I had it right but by the time I came to tell you what to change, my brain tricked me and told you to add it to the "> a::before" selector! SSastry (WMF) (talk) 20:50, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks good. Izno (talk) 21:00, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/services/parsoid/+/890907 is a fix to my Cite CSS generation script which should also fix this on a number of wikis. It includes the update to enwiki styles which we discussed above. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 22:00, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @SSastry (WMF). Is it actually necessary to have this included in all the downstreams? I see some other CSS setting it to -1, so I'm wondering if upstream is really at the right default. I assume you added the -1, but I'm not sure in which patch or why. Izno (talk) 22:06, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * If we add default of 0, we will need to add the override to -1 in some wikis that use decimal counters (localized or not). If we add default of -1 (as is the case after my tweaks), we will need to add the override to 0 on a different set of wikis that don't use decimal counters. The default decimal rendering (2.0, 2.1, 2.1 etc.) is more common than the customized non-decimal rendering (a, b, c .. ). So, I chose to go with the current approach. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 22:09, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * An alternative way to pick the default is based on traffic to different wikis and which of the two ways of picking the default above would lead to overall lower traffic being served. But, the CSS diff is quite small that may not be significant when gzipped. So, I am not sure it is worth that extra effort. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 22:17, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @SSastry (WMF), that's good enough for me.
 * Certainly though, if we were measuring by traffic, en.wp is king. We take as many user pageviews as the next 39 wikis combined. :) (One day's worth of traffic using siteviews, walking down the list of Wikipedias sorted by active user count, which seemed like a better proxy than page count for tracking most views.) Izno (talk) 23:03, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @SSastry (WMF), probably the last thing, and you look to have mentioned it somewhat earlier, but I tried one of the more exotic group kinds supported currently (upper Roman) and it did not change the ol.references list styling, whereas lower-alpha does. Is the lower-alpha support upstream? I know I said I think we would prefer this rendering to change, but based on my sense of things, I think it would be better to have that be with our customizations. Izno (talk) 21:47, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I've removed all old.references list styling from Cite (since I think that was just hangover from early experiments in 2013/2014) and it will roll out on the train this week. As you can see from the patch, the CSS only targeted lower-alpha and upper-alpha (and the fact that only those 2 groups were included also points to the early experimental nature of those CSS roles). The goal on our / my end is to replicate current rendering, and where wikis want to make additional tweaks, wikis should feel free to add appropriate CSS for that. So, yes, if enwiki prefers the list numbering to also change for these refgroups, you can use the removed CSS rules from the above patch as a model to tweak your Common.css. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 21:55, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Indeed, The goal on our / my end is to replicate current rendering was expected. Izno (talk) 21:59, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Module:WikiProject
Hi Izno, your work on this module seems to have stalled :) I guess you got distracted by other work. I'm just wondering because some significant changes to assessment templates are on the horizon &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:39, 3 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, any reply? If you are definitely not planning to resume this work, then I guess I might have to look into it ... &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:47, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @MSGJ, yeah, been trying to mentally devote time to considering your message, and still had a notification queued for response from the original :).
 * I don't think Module:WikiProject should or need come before the other changes suggested are done. I don't see anything in the description of work that makes that necessary, and doing things in parallel is generally worse, especially when I'm doing other things. But maybe you are thinking of something that would be easier to do if the banner was in Lua. I think waiting on Module:WikiProject is going to add a lot of time because there are a lot of edges to incorporating all the customization that is supported by that template - part of the reason I haven't worked on it. (And some edges that shouldn't be edges IMO, like support for separate list classes and MILHIST's checklist that really should be ubiquitous in assessment banners.)
 * One thing I don't really understand about the implementation plan for WPBS is why you think you need T:template parameter value. I would just modify the Template:WPBannerMeta (plus the two stragglers) to emit something along the lines of  (xor data-wikiproject-priority) (if that's not already emitted, I haven't looked of late) and then to   over the relevant input to the banner shell i.e. convert banner shell to Lua. This would be a trivial alternative to whatever has been proposed at the template talk page, fits with generally existing ways of understanding content internal to a template, serves as a stepping stone to relying on the PageAssessment data directly in Lua should that ever become available, makes it easy for JavaScript to access the data (if it's not using the PageAssessments database), and would give specifically you a chance to dabble with what should be a pretty easy project ;).
 * I would have liked to comment on the proposal at VPPRO and/or VPI and really haven't been able to put time (not from lack of it) into thinking about why I'm not sure I approve the plan to add WPBS everywhere. I didn't really like the idea of adding it for n = 0 to 2 WikiProjects, the display of which (naively) would be shell and not much banner. The proposal also doesn't really do a good job discussing that we have many many pages which don't have the shell with multiple projects (n = 2), and I'm pretty sure we don't need it on those pages. Izno (talk) 21:08, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Well that sounds really interesting. So the  function (or equivalent) would not even be needed? Yes, definitely easier than what has been suggested.
 * The reason is would be easier if it were already in Lua: I have been coding all the logic for the inherited quality into Module:WikiProject quality assessment. In order to feed WPBannerMeta with the information it needs (i.e. whether it is an inherited or local class) I am prefixing with a code letter which then needs to be stripped off later in the template. It's really ugly coding but I can't think of any way to avoid it unless the whole template was in Lua. Your thoughts would be welcome.
 * I think the idea is that the shell will almost become the banner itself. And even with 1 or 2 banners, a collapsed shell will not take up more space than the uncollapsed banners. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:28, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm back. Just realised - your idea will not work, because it's the other way round to how you have imagined. The class parameter will be in WPBS, and the individual project banners need to read that in order to do their own categorisation. One of the main advantages is that we will only need to define class once (in the shell) and that will then be available to all the separate baners. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:34, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @MSGJ, I'm rather interested in the reverse of how much space banners take up. Having a shell for 0 to 2 projects is frankly overkill to need to click to see the other things that a WikiProject banner displays and limits visibility for people who don't know what WikiProjects are and their meaning on a talk page. (My rationale borders but is not directly implicated by the discussion from this TFD about auto-collapsing a few years ago.)
 * Your problem isn't fixed by having Module:WikiProject itself be in Lua. At best you can use some function or another to remove some amount of duplicated decision making, but nothing else would enable the transition to the new world. You still need to communicate somehow from the children templates to the parent how the categories are set up.
 * On that point, ok, I see where I went wrong there on implementation considerations. Here are the things I think you can do instead of getting the full content.
 * Reimplement the decision tree for categorization in Lua. (We have to do this anyway for later as noted above.)
 * Have the WikiProject banners emit a similar construct to yesterday's suggestion, with the values that are set pertinent to the categorization logic e.g. PROJECT and etc.
 * We should already know all the relevant hooks, but if those aren't known, we can pass those values up as well.
 * Add that to the banner shell.
 * Find those values in the banner shell's Lua implementation.
 * Have the banner shell remove any attempt, using, by the children banners to categorize the page, at least pertaining to the quality rating.
 * If we implement the category logic correctly in Lua, then this just means finding the exact same string as generated for the Lua version; if not, then we can look for categories with "quality" in them.
 * Basically, "stop having the categories be emitted by the children", at least pertaining to the quality rating. Izno (talk) 17:30, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Delivery from Adopt-a-Goat!
This is your goat now. No refunds. You're not allowed to eat it.

20:17, 5 February 2023 (UTC) 

Written rules are good
Setting aside the major joke that is WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY, I want to wholeheartedly endorse your side remark from few hours ago that "I would not be opposed to these two mostly-reasonable views of the role being described in the procedures or perhaps the guide to arbitration.". Improving and clarifying our procedures, step by step, is always good. This is a small but clear win for the project from the current mess. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:03, 16 February 2023 (UTC)


 * @Piotrus, yes, I agree that written rules are good. This one has more force of a custom or norm than it does a rule in the sense of guideline or policy, so that's why I'm not sure on the best place to put it. The procedures are definitely more of a "thou must do this thing", but the guide is definitely not pointed at arbitrators but instead other users for how arbitration works. (A separate discussion of whether the latter does its job is one we've had of late.)
 * It's also hard to do incremental changes to ARB pages because they more or less require the a majority vote for significant changes to ARBPRO, and ARBPOL is not exactly unchanging but is definitely a bedrock, and asking people (arb or editor) to vote on Little Thing Y times 100 is... rough, to say the least. I know a few of my co-arbs have thought about that. Izno (talk) 03:25, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

huge dump
Hi. A few days ago I downloaded Wikipedia dump, after uncompressing it became around 80-90. How do you guys generally scan such huge dumps? I have no idea about it. For experiments, I created 20 chunks of 50 megabytes each, all the experiments/scanning was successful. Just a little nudge in the right direction would be sufficient. Also, I downloaded "pages article multistream", or should I have downloaded the non-stream one? —usernamekiran (talk) 08:00, 16 February 2023 (UTC)


 * @Usernamekiran, I'm not the right person. I'd suggest asking at WT:AWB where some people use the scanner, and/or one of the maintainers of tools that do like Xtools maintained by . Izno (talk) 17:28, 16 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks, will do :-) —usernamekiran (talk) 17:41, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

History merge
Regarding this, it wasn't so much about crediting the author, but keeping what little history was in the Draft article together with what it was copied/pasted to and ultimately further developed. Eventually the Draft-space redirect will get deleted, and anyone looking at earlier history will hit a roadblock when a history merge would avoid that. —Locke Cole • t • c 17:52, 16 February 2023 (UTC)


 * @Locke Cole ... which isn't the primary point of a history merge. I'll entertain cases like this one (see WP:PARALLEL) where there's a whole bunch of different authors and only a couple of minor edits on the merge target blocking those, but in this case, that's a lot of work for 3 edits by an author who is indeed already attributed, 2 of which are effectively trivial edits.
 * Besides that, drafts that target mainspace don't get deleted unless the article itself is also deleted. Which while a possibility, still leaves us with only 3 revisions to have merged. In fact, the best part is that the author in this case clearly attributed his own work in the edit summary, so if someone feels the needs to history dive for 3 revisions, the cookie crumbs are definitely already there. Izno (talk) 17:59, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:User sat-2


A tag has been placed on Category:User sat-2 indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz Read! Talk! 01:49, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

A question regarding Wikipedia:Templates for discussion
Hello, Izno. I am a user who is looking for advice regarding a matter from a number of years ago. To attempt to keep things simple, I was thinking of starting a discussion about a template at Templates for discussion. However, I don't want to propose that the template be deleted or merged. What I want to do is see if the template's issues should be fixed and how to do so. Would it still be okay to start a discussion at TFD or should I seek another method? --Super Goku V (talk) 00:00, 24 February 2023 (UTC)


 * @Super Goku V, it's better to ask around first at e.g. WikiProject Templates or VPT, if asking on the template's talk page hasn't been successful. But yes, you can nominate it at TFD in that way if you really must. What template? IznoPublic (talk) 00:16, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Template:Chronological is the one. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:30, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Super Goku V, it's used in only about a dozen places in a decade of existence. It might be worth TFDing for deletion for that reason alone, but if you want, you can probably just fix whatever issues yourself. Izno (talk) 01:34, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I wish I was as confident in fixing the issues as you are, but I guess I can try to figure it out on my own. Thank you for the advice and sorry for the trouble.  --Super Goku V (talk) 01:58, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for dealing with the Defeedme sock
But that made you another target. He's had at least two IP addresses harassing editors in the last few hours. How he gets them all I have no idea. Doug Weller talk 08:43, 1 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @Doug Weller, I knew what I was doing when I stepped in. Thank you for the concern though. :) Izno (talk) 20:57, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

TemplateStyles
Hi, could you please look at converting Non-free media data and Non-free media rationale to TemplateStyles? Many thanks, &#8209;&#8209;Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:32, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd also like to apologise for reverting your edits in January, which I've since reinstated, as I should've looked to improve the new code rather than reverting it wholesale, which I've since done. &#8209;&#8209;Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 18:34, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Neveselbert, it's fine. I've been spending my time being productive elsewhere.
 * I think you mostly got where you wanted to go. If you want to do the conversions for those others in their sandboxes, I can take a look when you're done doing whatever you want to do. Izno (talk) 00:21, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Would you be OK with converting Non-free media data/sandbox and Non-free media rationale/sandbox to TemplateStyles before I looked at the styles? Or you could just implement it live and I'll look at the styles afterwards, whichever you prefer? &#8209;&#8209;Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 18:34, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Neveselbert well, it would be good for you to know how to do a switchover like I've done. I don't want to be the only one who knows how to make something TemplateStyles. :) That's why I recommended you take a shot in the sandboxes of interest. If you have questions let me know. Izno (talk) 09:48, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll try, but do you know of a shortcut, perhaps a find/replace way of achieving the conversion? &#8209;&#8209;Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:28, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * No, there is no quick way. However, it usually goes pretty fast on this kind of template because all the styles end up being repeated in each row in some way or another. Izno (talk) 22:29, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, I think I've got the hang of it, does the code Non-free media data/sandbox look good to you? &#8209;&#8209;Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:46, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Neveselbert, ok, definite mismatch in expectation there. I would have created Template:Non-free media data/styles.css instead, which would fully have sandboxed what you were thinking about.
 * The templates do have broadly similar styles, so it's probably not unreasonable to have added NFMD's styles to NFUR's, but I don't think I would do that in this case. I'm always thinking about whether the styles that you've added are going to be used, and how often. In this case, because you don't expect to have NFMD and NFUR on the same page (I don't think, you can correct me), you end up sending more styles that won't be used to the final consumer. In some cases that can make sense just for maintainability (like Module:Sidebar/styles.css has both Template:Sidebar and Template:Sidebar with collapsible lists CSS in it), but in others, like I think this case where the templates are fundamentally simple, it is just as good not to maintain the styles in the same place (given the unlikelihood of multiple templates being used).
 * There is a third option here, and that's to remove the NFMD styles from the NFUR/styles.css (since that's used on 450k pages) and make them their own page (for their 10k uses), but not to duplicate the NFUR styles in the NFMD sheet and instead use two TemplateStyles statements on NFMD's template page, one for the 'base' styles in NFUR/styles.css and one for the specific template's styles. Again, I think the simplicity of these templates and rarity of these templates being used on the same page points simply to duplicating the necessary styles from one styles.css page to the other styles.css page.
 * That's ultimately a choice for you here since you're working on it. I'd say it probably depends on how many similar templates we have lying around. I do find the case for "these are pretty simple templates" to be compelling personally for the "totally separate styles pages" option. Izno (talk) 23:00, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks for the feedback. I think using the same stylesheet works fine on my end, though if another editor such as yourself or others find this problematic I'll be fine with splitting. These templates are all part of the same family anyway so I think having the styles all in one space would be helpful in keeping measurements consistent. &#8209;&#8209;Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 23:07, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Neveselbert, yes, consistency is the plus to going this direction. Looking beyond that, I see a couple improvement points:

Izno (talk) 23:17, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * applies bolding. You accordingly forgot/missed removal of the bold wikitext in its uses in NFMD/sandbox.
 * Since you are adding .nfur to the 'child' templates, in the block  you can remove the duplicate text-align and padding properties.
 * Similarly for the blocks of CSS that deal with the s.
 * Since consistency is the direction you're going, consider whether we need the varying styles I do see. For example, the block at the bottom with nfur versus nfur-2 with slightly different width statements. And a similar comment about nfur-2's different  styling (it may even be possible to remove nfur-2's CSS definitions, I don't know).

Seiya Da Costa Lay
You'll need to explain this edit please; a histmerge hasn't been performed yet. Eagleash (talk) 07:43, 13 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @Eagleash, yes, it has. But that's besides the point. I could have removed it because it was a bad hist merge. Either way, you should have asked on my talk page first, not reverted my removal. Izno (talk) 07:45, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I reverted your edit as it looked like more disruption by or on behalf of, the 'creator'. The edit summary was not what I have come to expect after a histmerge. But, "that's beside the point"; your edit was rv'd so per WP:BRD you should have begun a discussion. Eagleash (talk) 07:59, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Eagleash I had a response that I decided comes off as more patronizing than not, now consigned to my goldfish memory. So here's the much shorter version.
 * In the future, please review the potential locations that would indicate a history merge has been completed, such as the merge or deletion logs. Secondly, be better about assuming good faith: a cursory check of my user page, talk page, or contributions would have made it obvious that I was there to do what was requested on behalf, not disrupt on behalf of the creator.
 * Separately, WP:BRD is not the iron law much less even an actual guideline, and takes the pain of emphasizing the word optional in its very first sentence. Be sensitive to when it might be appropriate to cite it (I do not think it is remotely relevant in this context; YMMV, and I'm not interested in arguing this parenthetical), possibly in lieu of stronger policies and guidelines. Izno (talk) 22:50, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * An adequate edit-summary would have saved this interaction; why should I have to go searching for what you are doing? As I say, the creator had shortly previously removed the histmerge notice and your edit looked like more of the same. I did look at your contributions but it did not register with me that the merger had been completed. (Missed it or did not have time to go back far enough). (Not patronising?) Eagleash (talk) 23:47, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Eagleash, sure. I won't be changing my way of doing things though. Have a good rest of your wiki-editing career. Izno (talk) 00:00, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

More ranges for disruptive IP editor
Thanks for giving the disruptive IP a month off. Just FYI, in the closure review currently at AN, this IP range also copped to editing in the ranges 2600:1012:B068:8277:0:0:0:0/64, 2600:1012:B043:216D:0:0:0:0/64, and 2600:1012:B014:8929:0:0:0:0/64. The first two are owned as "I attempted - several times..." in the OP comment, and the third one is owned in this comment. Another arguably disruptive comment by this user was posting "Casualties of the Cabal" at the bottom of AndewNguyen's talk page. I'll leave it to you to determine whether a more expansive range block may be required. Cheers, Generalrelative (talk) 19:29, 27 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @Generalrelative, could you leave this feedback at AN? While I've gotten a couple thanks-s for my action, I'd prefer to keep tracking like that central while the event is being watched at AN. Izno (talk) 19:41, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. Assuming you mean ANI, which is where I saw your comment. Generalrelative (talk) 19:45, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. Izno (talk) 19:46, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Table Question for You
I saw you have expertise on table best practices and have a question for you about the table on the Chicago neighborhoods page. If you sort the table by community area, you'll see that some community area table cells have multiple entries. So, for example West Humboldt Park is in two community areas: Austin and Humboldt Park. While this makes it easy to discern that the neighborhood spans two community areas, it makes it hard to see that West Humboldt Park is in Humboldt Park if the end user sorts the table alphabetically by community area and jumps down to Humboldt Park, in which case they won't easily see that West Humboldt Park entry. An alternative approach would be to have two rows for West Humboldt Park, one for the Austin community area and one for the Humboldt Park community area. This would improve the user experience for somebody who sorts the table by community area, but the downside is that it would add more rows. What's your opinion on the official best practice for this use case? I didn't see this topic covered in the Tables best practices page. Thanks for your help. I would only update the page to have more rows if somebody told me that it was the official best practice. Unless told otherwise, I'll be leaving it alone. IntegrityPen (talk) 11:30, 6 April 2023 (UTC)


 * @IntegrityPen, yes, it's generally something of an antipattern to put a list inside a table, but I'm not going to go so far as to call its opposite an official best practice. When I'm gnoming sometimes I'll fix it depending on how much work it will be. Sometimes I don't. It also somewhat depends on what (rather than how much) I'll have to change in the table to fix the issue. In this case, you'd have to add a rowspan to the left column, which is not a problem at all on that axis, but it might be more problematic in a wider table (by column count). Izno (talk) 17:28, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Izno, thanks. That makes sense. I'll likely fix it in the next week or so. For this particular instance, I think it will improve the user experience. Appreciate your help. IntegrityPen (talk) 17:32, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Tracking category for comments in lede section
Hi, FYI, the tracking category for comments in lede section (which you've asked for in T324139#8433778) is now available. Sorry it took us a while. Someone just needs to create MediaWiki:Discussiontools-comments-before-first-heading-category with the desired name. Matma Rex talk 17:59, 14 April 2023 (UTC)


 * @Matma Rex, yeah, I noticed the closure. I'll take a look at some point Soon. Maybe consider a #tech-news on that. Izno (talk) 21:15, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Matma Rex, done. Seems to be working as expected. Izno (talk) 00:18, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Matma Rex, ok, some hiccups that I assume will continue to surface, but if you have ideas (or can say whether DT is actually chewing on these in a bad way).
 * Talk:Kore Ilbo is showing up in the category due to the first section being entirely transcluded. I don't know if there is a reasonable way around this except to adjust the GA process (and I don't expect that to go over well with anyone)?
 * Talk:Islam is showing up in the category due to the signature-like thing in GA nominee. Any idea how to adjust the template output to be friendlier to this detection?
 * Izno (talk) 01:38, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks like DYK does the full transclusion thing too, but without a section, so that's correctable. Izno (talk) 02:33, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The transclusion in Talk:Kore Ilbo is not going to cause this problem (as long as there's a heading before comments on the transcluded page). Both Talk:Islam and Talk:Kore Ilbo actually have the same problem with the signature-like thing in GA nominee. You can resolve it by marking up the template with  (which we just introduced last week – see documentation at mw:Help:DiscussionTools/Magic words and markup). Matma Rex talk 03:02, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, yeah, I do see that category use was also caused by GA nominee. Izno (talk) 03:47, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Spam-whitelist request
Hey there Inzo! You seem to have a bit of technical knowhow, so would you mind checking my request on MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist? It's gone a couple of days unanswered and should be uncontroversial. The link is www.kickstarter.com/articles/how-to-launch-big-kickstarter-campaign-artiphon-hardware. Thanks! Schminnte (talk • contribs) 19:58, 20 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Be patient and wait for that process to work through things. Izno (talk) 03:37, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, sorry about that. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 06:57, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

VPT
You reverted my edit to VPT with the edit summary "let’s not". Do you mind elaborating on that? Snowmanonahoe (talk) 18:49, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * +1 to archiving prevention. It'll prevent new people complaining about graphs turned off and going in circles. Nardog (talk) 18:53, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Snowmanonahoe, sure cc @Nardog. First, I'm not a fan of the apparent current practice of 10 years into the future and I really should get around to adjusting that on the documentation for the pinning template. The original adder will inevitably forget or won't care enough to remove it and then someone else has to do the work of removing it, otherwise we get a section stuck on the page for a Long time. This can be ameliorated with some reasonable amount of time, like a month or so.
 * Second, we have issues "hang around" or leave the main page all the time just by the natural flow. This specific issue is not so important (given how few pages it affects - yes, only a couple thousand pages is a few in the grand scheme) that it's important enough to pin to the page for any "must not archive until I say it archives" date.
 * You could sell me on some reasonable timeline like a week, at most a month. Izno (talk) 18:54, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You make a good point. said 2 days ago that he hopes to have functionality somewhat restored within a week, so a week seems reasonable. Snowmanonahoe (talk) 19:01, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Torpedo bulkhead
Hello, Izno. A disagreement as erupted regarding the recent editing of the Torpedo bulkhead article. I wanted someone independent to be aware that a discussion between the two editors— (an admin), and I—has been raised at their talk page. Please follow the discussion, and intervene if you find reason to do so; thank you. &#8212;&#160;CJDOS,&#160;Sheridan,&#160;OR&#160;(talk) 23:57, 27 April 2023 (UTC)


 * @CJDOS, I'm not totally certain why you've asked me to look at it. Anyway, from what I can tell, the first major contributor to the page was Parsecboy who used American English (in the spelling of armor particularly, though there may be other indicators). So I think you picked the wrong English to mark the page as using, as he correctly points out on his talk page. It is of course reasonable to ensure that there is only one variant used in the article. Izno (talk) 18:17, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Certainly, I made an honest mistake in marking the language variant as I saw it instead of checking the page history first, but the handling of the matter left something to be desired. Being that is an admin, it's their incivility that I'm most concern about. As long as I'm assured the matter will be looked into, I consider it a personnel matter (i.e. confidential). &#8212;&#160;CJDOS,&#160;Sheridan,&#160;OR&#160;(talk) 04:26, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Indeed, CJDOS, your handling of the situation left much to be desired. You had a couple of options when you saw that I reverted your edit. You could have looked at the article more closely to see whether your edit was valid or not. You could also have simply asked me why I reverted it if you didn't understand. Instead, you chose to post a demanding message on my talk page, accusing me of insulting you (and attacking me for undoing something that you knew I had already fixed, by the way - what was the point of that particular comment?) under a heading normally reserved for warning vandals. You were unnecessarily hostile from the start, attempted to bully me into apologizing for an imagined slight, and refused to even countenance the possibility that you made a mistake.
 * It should come as no surprise; when someone screams about "admin abuse", it's most likely true – they're probably abusing admins again. Parsecboy (talk) 13:09, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Closing that section
I'm glad that you just closed that section, but might you consider changing the format from "ctop" to "atop"? --Tryptofish (talk) 21:55, 5 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I think ctop is reasonable, and I'm inclined to say more appropriate given the divergence. If someone really wants to read the 155 comments under the heading, it's a click away. Izno (talk) 22:22, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * No problem, thank you. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:23, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Navbar/testcases/teststyles.css
Template:Navbar/testcases/teststyles.css has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Q𝟤𝟪 07:53, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Protista
You retargeted Protista from protist to Protozoa. While you were fixing a double redirect at that time, the protist article has been restored. Would you change the target of Protista back to Protist (and also consider adding R from scientific and maybe reducing the protection level of the redirect). Plantdrew (talk) 17:02, 22 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @Plantdrew, that template doesn't exist. Is there another you prefer? Izno (talk) 17:03, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Never mind, got it. Izno (talk) 17:04, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Automatically added categories
Hello, Izno. How to take out categories automatically added to articles from templates? Wealszy (talk) 12:24, 24 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @Wealszy, why do you think you would need to do that? Izno (talk) 17:13, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Need to do it for a category on another wiki. Wealszy (talk) 17:35, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Wealszy, what is the template you are trying to remove a category from? Izno (talk) 17:41, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't want to take out a category from a template, I just want to take out that category from an article that uses that template. Wealszy (talk) 18:05, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Wealszy that would still require modifying the template. Please describe the full extent, with page links, of what you are trying to do. Izno (talk) 18:09, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Inquiry
Hi, I made some other similar Protected edit requests a few days for SpacemanSpiff's userpage, and CJCurrie's userpage (links go to the requests; bottom of each page) that haven't been addressed yet. Not sure how visible these types of requests are, but since it's been a few days and you helped me with Materialscientist's awards page today, I thought I'd ask you about them. Thank you, Zinnober9 (talk) 19:56, 24 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @Zinnober9, they're visible if you know where to look, I just hadn't gotten to the full list. Izno (talk) 20:19, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, thank you! I figured there likely was list, but also knew Materialscientist's talk page is a highly watched page. And thank you for making the adjustments. Hope you have a great evening! Zinnober9 (talk) 20:30, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Thailand at the Big Four international beauty pageants
Hi. Thailand at the Big Four international beauty pageants, which was previously deleted twice due to sockpuppetry issues where you were the blocking CU, has recently been re-created. I'm not familiar with the case enough to start an SPI; could you please take a look? Thanks. --Paul_012 (talk) 08:26, 25 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @Paul 012, I see a WP:DUCK for Sockpuppet investigations/Rachellegeneroso for the future. Izno (talk) 13:52, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * and . Please feel free to review contributions and revert as necessary. Izno (talk) 13:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

That Defeedme sock is really an idiot
What a pathetic attempt to upset me. And a waste of his time. Yep, cancer is going to kill me. Something was sooner or later, and I'd rather die from cancer than deteriorate into dementia with Parkinson's. Doug Weller  talk 07:32, 29 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @Doug Weller, maybe need a reminder about WP:DFTT. Izno (talk) 17:24, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that was more a statement about me and cancer and not giving a damn about idiot socks. He’s not the only one. Doug Weller  talk 18:52, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

The Sight and Sound navbox
Hi. Should have come by here first to ask if you'd consider repopening and relisting the navbox discussion. It wasn't well promoted so it ended up with two easily debatable delete comments and what I read as a well-phrased keep "vote". Please give it another look, thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:29, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The "well-phrased" keep !vote had nothing to do with the value of the template of interest. I will not be reopening this discussion. I see you have been advised by multiple others at WT:FILM on the matter as well. Izno (talk) 05:27, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The sole Keep editor,, has also commented and advised on the talk page you linked above. I'm sorry you won't relist the nomination, as three editors commenting on such an important topic (as you know the Sight and Sound poll is considered the premier and/or definitive listing of the best films in history) doesn't do the navbox or, imo, Wikipedia, justice. It's interesting that as far as I know nobody has complained about the navbox being on the appropriate pages until decided it wasn't to his liking. As I mentioned, the two 'Delete' !votes are easily countered, if given a chance. But I won't continue pestering you, just thought I'd take another whack at the apple. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:57, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

You've got mail!
-- Prodraxis talk contribs  01:43, 5 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Prodraxis, that one's not typically my wheelhouse. We do have an email though for it, which is . Izno (talk) 01:58, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * That said, geolocation of an unregistered editor providing commentary in an arbitrary AFD is not particularly private such that it needs to be in an inbox. It should be acceptable to list that at WP:COIN. Izno (talk) 02:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah.... maybe I should report this at COIN. -- Prodraxis talk contribs  02:10, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Collapsible box
Thanks for posting this. I just want to let you know I might have a comment, but it will be in about day. Steve Quinn (talk) 02:27, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello again. The ANI to which the collapse box was posted is about to be archived. Would you mind not allowing this to be archived for a little while? I have posted a comment and am thinking of continuing in that direction. Thanks. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 10:04, 6 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Steve Quinn, maybe you missed it when you made that comment (I see this morning you have made a comment, which should prevent archiving) but the box doesn't collapse everything in the section, just the parts that I thought had strayed most offtopic. Izno (talk) 15:11, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello again. I'm not sure if you added a "no archive" to the Randy Kryn - WP:IDHT on edit warring and fringe topics at ANI. But I should have let you know the thread no longer seemed active and it was OK to archive. Now we have more comments so that will keep it from archiving at this time. However, maybe you can remove the "no archive" and let it archive as it is supposed to. Sorry I didn't contact you sooner about this. Steve Quinn (talk) 03:59, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Curious edit
Can you let me know what this edit is about, as I'm not understanding it. I can't find any Templates for Discussion archives that state we need to add this template to lots of discussions. Can you clarify the intent as I really can't see any value to adding a template on a talk page to say someone looked at it 16 years ago? Also you really should use better edit summaries as you're about to get this question a lot. Canterbury Tail talk 22:01, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Canterbury Tail, processing Template:WP LoCE from WP:TFDH and doing the good faith thing of moving from archive to main page (you'll see a removal from the archive and an addition to the main page for most talk pages). I took care of the easy ones with AWB. Izno (talk) 22:03, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry but that isn't clear. What does a TfD have to do with putting a, frankly, useless template on a page to say some non-notable editor took a look at it 16 years ago. Can you point me to the TfD that says we should be doing this? Canterbury Tail talk</i> 22:06, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Canterbury Tail, WP:TFDH#To review. You are more than welcome to remove any/all new adds today, but that's on you. Izno (talk) 22:08, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, I kinda think I get it. Still seems like a useless cluttering template to me but okay. Thank you for your time. <b style="color: Blue;">Canterbury Tail</b> <i style="color: Blue;">talk</i> 01:50, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Canterbury Tail, I don't think it's the best template either (I am decidedly not a fan of top-talk-page cruft), but that's something to discuss at WP:GOCE. Izno (talk) 01:53, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Geogroup
Why remove mapping in GeoGroup? ɱ (talk) 23:05, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Ɱ, the functionality is very little used (only about 30 pages using it), and I plan to swap GeoGroup to use side box like the couple of cousins it has (Attached KML is one -- probably those shouldn't be separate templates), since GeoGroup is intended to be an "external links"-like template. I'm converting it to side box as a result of the work for TemplateStyles, in this case specifically  class. Izno (talk) 23:11, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Well sure if you want to edit GeoGroup to use the base code of side box, sure. But I love the fact that GeoGroup can show a map. It's a relatively new feature, and there aren't yet too many editors who are aware of that functionality, nor has it really been highlighted/featured anywhere. I really strongly urge you to not to remove GeoGroup's ability to host a mapframe map. The two separate boxes at List of National Historic Landmarks in Ohio not only looks worse, but it is harder for users to create these maps then. GeoGroup bakes in mapping, and frames all of the points really well automatically for editors. I can map out a list so so much easier using GeoGroup. ɱ  (talk) 01:28, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Template:Standings table start/styles.css
could you check this (I'm not a css expert) and template protect it? thank you Frietjes (talk) 14:57, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
 * also, could you delete "Module:Standings table" and "Module:Standings tabl/styles.css" which are not technically feasible (script errors when used on pages with large numbers of transclusions). thank you. Frietjes (talk) 15:02, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Frietjes, skimming, seems fine. Unless there's a strong reason I think I'd prefer, and it would be nice to see ecol written out since what that means is not obvious to me.
 * Not sure why you weren't having success with the module version. Izno (talk) 16:48, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Template:Standings_table_entry has a bold that should probably be CSS. Izno (talk) 16:51, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I believe "ecol" is the edit link cell, so a better name would be good, or maybe just style the navbar instead? the module version was creating "too many expensive" calls errors when used on a page with dozens of standings tables (traced to the "ifexist" feature for the edit links).  the whole thing would be more efficient with a single call to a single module to generate the entire table, but that would require refactoring all the uses.  please feel free to modify/tweak the css and templates.  the styling in the "end" template could be moved to the css as well.  as far as I can tell, no page is using the "entry" or "end" without the "start".  thank you. Frietjes (talk) 16:58, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Query
Hello, Izno,

You closed Templates for discussion/Log/2023 June 18 as "Delete" but Template talk:Static column begin has a lot of discussion unlike many Template talk pages. Should this page be retained or redirected or just deleted along with the Template? Thanks. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:34, 29 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Liz, it's no different from any other page with a lot of talk discussion, such as many articles have previously had, so I don't see particular need to keep it. If you want to move it to an archive of its replacement I won't stop you though. IznoPublic (talk) 20:24, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Recusal
Since this doesn't have to do with the specific case where it came up, I'll just comment here: I think the ordinary meaning of "recusal" is enough to interpret an arbitrator recusing themselves to mean that they will not act as an arbitrator, including participation in the arbitrator-specific portions of discussion. isaacl (talk) 21:09, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Double signature bug
With new section tool... -- 'zin  [ is short for Tamzin ] (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 20:08, 10 July 2023 (UTC) --  'zin  [ is short for Tamzin ] (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 20:08, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * ... and reply tool. -- 'zin  [ is short for Tamzin ] (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 20:08, 10 July 2023 (UTC) --  'zin  [ is short for Tamzin ] (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 20:08, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Template:Palpatine family tree
Hey, you closed Templates for discussion/Log/2023 July 2 as "delete" but the result is that the family tree template was subst and is now duplicated in 3 articles. Can you confirm that the intended close was to remove this from the article? Gonnym (talk) 10:30, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Gonnym, my preference would be to remove it from several articles, but either way that's not a question for TFD with the general close of subst (as was reasonable there). Substing it everywhere was accordingly a correct interpretation. (I am not in favor of section transclusion -- that just makes spaghetti -- but that would also have been a correct interpretation in this case.)
 * Please feel free to apply editorial discretion for remaining uses. Izno (talk) 19:00, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Suggestion for gadgets or user scripts that use addPortletLInk
After reading this comment from KevinL, I wrote a script to just copy a link to the clipboard for a given comment, as I don't plan to use the Convenient Discussions script. I'd like to check it with some other gadgets or user scripts that fire the util_addPortletLink event, to ensure my registered hook correctly discards events coming from other portlet items being added. Can you recommend any gadgets or trusted user scripts that I could temporarily enable/install? isaacl (talk) 19:27, 21 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Isaacl this search? Izno (talk) 19:53, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the search; my search wasn't turning up helpful results. I should have thought of dark mode toggle; will try that one. isaacl (talk) 20:35, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Template help
Hello, Izno,

There is an IP account that keeps jumping around altering templates. One of the IP editors is User:80.214.97.201. Some of the templates they edited are Template:Db-meta/sandbox and Template:Db/sandbox which are now tagged for deletion but don't appear in the CSD categories. They also created Draft:Help:Customize your talk page. I'm not sure with changing IP addresses how to track down all of their template edits and I don't know whether or not they should all be reverted. So, that's what brought me to your Talk page as I hope you or a talk page stalker will know the proper solution. Thanks. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 02:21, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Also they created Draft:Wikipedia:List of custom talk pages with its own abbreviation page, Draft:Wikipedia:LCTP. I'm not sure how extensive this is. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 02:25, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Liz, Template:Db meta/sandbox and Template:Db/sandbox are operating as intended. Sandboxes for those templates are deliberately excluded from being categorized, and for the good reason that they are sandboxes. I suspect you would find it more annoying if they were perpetually in the CSD categories but couldn't be deleted because of it. :)
 * I have seen the practice of IPs creating drafts of help and WP space pages before if the pages they would prefer to edit are semied. Help:Customize your talk page and List of custom talk pages aren't, so maybe they just don't know they can create pages in non-mainspace as they more or less please (IIRC)? Overall this behavior is the weirder of the two. And the pages they're making are subpar ideas IMO, but that's subjective.
 * I don't know what best practice is for a situation like this. I'd just let G13 take them in 6 months, the same as an article draft. Or you can try talking to them. There might be another CSD available, but otherwise you could fourthly MFD them if you think the behavior is abusive. I guess a block is in order if you come down on that side, but they do seem to be rotating and have enough good faith on their pretty wide ranges that you're just back where you started sooner or later. (Given the couple of edits in category space made by 80.214.97.201/16, I'd guess someone is evading a block for similar behavior.....)
 * There's no really elegant way to track what's going on given the width of the ranges. You can probably just walk down the edits in Special:Contributions/80.214.0.0/16 and Special:Contributions/80.215.80.133/16 (potentially filtering by namespace if you wish). There's probably also a query you could request for pages in draft space started by an IP that have a colon in them, but I am SQL-0, so I can't help there. Izno (talk) 05:19, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Another place you might raise this would be WT:AFC since they're probably best equipped to deal with disruption in draft space. Izno (talk) 05:55, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Template:Infobox medal templates
Hello, this template have been found problems affect its visual appearance on mobile phone screens, however due to different configurations for CSS styles between desktop and mobile view, this would be noticed by our readers. First, the top item of the content occupied this template having a wide grey stripe at the top. Second, the left column occupied half of template width, which looks very inconsistent among different devices. I've made fix in its sandbox page, and you'll see the problems on main template via these screenshots: Would you like to apply my fix on main template? Do you have any more idea for this? Thanks. -- Great Brightstar (talk) 15:40, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * This is what I have seen over the years
 * This is my fix as displayed on test cases

MediaWiki:Newpages error
Hi, in your edit last night on MediaWiki:Newpages-summary, you stripped a span tag. Would you adjust Please consider [ patrolling pages from the of the unpatrolled backlog]. to Please consider [ patrolling pages from the of the unpatrolled backlog].

(moving the closing span tag to outside the paired [ ] bracket set.) Thank you and have a great weekend. Zinnober9 (talk) 12:19, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Tarim, Yemen
Hello Izno. Thank you for completing the histmerge at Tarim, Hadhramaut. I noticed you also redirected Talk:Tarim, Yemen to the new article's talk page. Should that talk's history be merged with the new talk? Many thanks, estar8806 (talk) ★ 01:26, 7 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Estar8806, no, there's no basis for a history merge there. Izno (talk) 01:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Les Frigos
Hi Izno could you take a look at Les Frigos? It seems you deleted the talkpage with the summary "G8: Talk page of deleted page "Les Frigos"" but the article is still there - and should be. Thanks for any help! Mujinga (talk) 13:16, 9 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Fixed. That's what I get for using TW for test deletes. Izno (talk) 18:31, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Merci! Mujinga (talk) 19:08, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Alignment of Fire Diamond in Chembox
Hi, I was recommended to you by Jonesey95 on this matter on WikiProject Chemistry talk page.

It seems like the fire diamond in Chembox Template for all chemical compounds is misaligned on mobile devices. The background image is moved completely to the right and some of the numbers / letters overlap the diamond's boundaries. I've checked on multiple devices - all with latest version of Chrome Browser. The alignment is alright on PC. Check example Benzene. I can't fix it (as I have no idea how it works). Can you help? Thanks in advance!! Ray Frost (talk) 13:41, 11 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Nevermind please, TheDJ solved the problem with CSS and it's perfect now... Ray Frost (talk) 16:07, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

numeric names
Hi – I see you're working your way back through Category:CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list from the other end – that's very motivating – I look forward to meeting you somewhere in the middle :-) Joriki (talk) 23:49, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I peek into these categories from time to time when my brain needs to not think about whatever else I deem important. :) Starting from the back made as much sense as anything, though I'm most likely to finish off small letters. Izno (talk) 04:37, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Venus Orbiter Mission
Hi, Thanks for the history merge, but I think the page was move protected and is no longer under WP:MOVP now. Is that a glitch or you removed the protection? Thanks. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 05:01, 21 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Fixed, when I double checked after the deletion and recreation for the history merge it was at the right setting. Not per se a glitch nor a deliberate removal. Izno (talk) 05:07, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Cool. Thanks. Happy editing :) The Herald (Benison) (talk) 05:10, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Chinese folk religion in Southeast Asia
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Chinese folk religion in Southeast Asia, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Izno&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=&preloadparams%5b%5d=1172275117 report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 02:39, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chinese_folk_religion_in_Southeast_Asia&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1172275117%7CChinese%20folk%20religion%20in%20Southeast%20Asia%5D%5D Ask for help])

CS1 error on Winthrop University
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Winthrop University, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Izno&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=&preloadparams%5b%5d=1172429823 report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 01:29, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * A "missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Winthrop_University&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1172429823%7CWinthrop%20University%5D%5D Ask for help])

CS1 error on Louise Siddall
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Louise Siddall, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Izno&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=&preloadparams%5b%5d=1172429989 report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 01:31, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * A "missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Louise_Siddall&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1172429989%7CLouise%20Siddall%5D%5D Ask for help])
 * You can suppress these messages with by adding  to this page.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 02:52, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Trappist the monk, thanks. I think I'll leave them on; since I'm introducing them deliberately because I'm gnoming and making the citations more correct, maybe a page watcher can hunt down all the relevant information if they get posted here. Izno (talk) 21:43, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Oliver Kuhn
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Oliver Kuhn, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Izno&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=&preloadparams%5b%5d=1172584635 report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 01:20, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * A "missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Oliver_Kuhn&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1172584635%7COliver%20Kuhn%5D%5D Ask for help])

AutoEd alternatives
Hello Izno. Quick follow-up question from Village pump (technical). You mentioned AutoEd is ancient and I'm surprised it's maintained much less functional – do you know of any superior alternatives? I read Tools/Editing tools but didn't find anything comparable. rblv (talk) 20:29, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


 * AWB is probably the next best option, but it's barely maintained also. In general, the state of general tooling has decayed quite a bit since about 15 years ago. More people have put up domain-specifics in that time (for example, tools to help with archiving, SPI, sourcing and sources). Izno (talk) 20:34, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Template talk:Sports links
Hello! I am seeking your guidance / assistance in a request for edit at Template talk:Sports links. I have a request at the very bottom re: a few gymnastics parameters, but have been unsuccessful in getting any response. I've sought assistance from the last person who answered, User talk:Jonesey95, of which we had a bit of a back and forth on their talk page. They also seem unsure as to how to make the edits for Sports links template or what the process here would be. Can you please help out or point me in the right direction? GauchoDude (talk) 19:08, 6 September 2023 (UTC)


 * You "just" need to update Module:External links/conf/Sports I believe. I can't help much further than that since it's not a module I'm familiar with and I'm away for a day or two more, so I can't do any investigating. Izno (talk) 00:10, 7 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, I believe I've made a "request" now on the page itself, including exactly how it needs to be edited. As it is a protected template, I cannot make the edit myself. Can you review when you have a chance? GauchoDude (talk) 17:46, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

You’ve got mail!
<sup style="letter-spacing:-.1em;color:#737373;font-family:monospace">user: A smart kitten <sub style="color:#b842b8;font-family:monospace">meow 21:52, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Proposals to revise support threshold for arbitration committee elections
I had written up a comment on the elections RfC talk page that I ended up discarding, because I didn't think it was sufficiently interesting, but since you've followed up with [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2023&diff=1174688771&oldid=1174684030 this comment] regarding past proposals: I don't think past arbitrators or potential candidates have special insight into changing the support threshold, beyond what can be discerned from past support percentages. There are a lot of unknowns about the possible consequences. Raising the threshold could, for example, push more voters into supporting more candidates to try to ensure the higher threshold was met. I do agree, though, that proposals on term length would benefit from the experience of past and current arbitrators. isaacl (talk) 02:15, 10 September 2023 (UTC)


 * without actually working with the people most affected (those who go through this election, or would like to go through this election)?
 * The ad hominem I'm invoking here: being on the committee gets you an actual idea of what gets done, what should get done, and what shouldn't get done. The fewer people to do those things, the more that goes from pile 1 into pile 2. Each of these proposals inevitably asks for members to shoulder more work in the long run. That tends to dissuade people from running. When people are dissuaded from running, you are less likely to have a good committee or even a full one.
 * Separately, for a long time we have told people for a very long time to vote for the people they want to vote for and to oppose the people they don't (as was mentioned in one of the previous proposals). Changing the threshold in this way creeps us into changing the message to "vote, so that we even have a committee". I don't think your hypothetical is a good one, whatsoever. (This was an argument advanced in a prior year's proposal.)
 * It remains important to me, as I said last year, that we have a full and active committee, able to respond to the entirety of our workload each year. We don't even have that with the current committee. (I'll not assign individual fault.)
 * Let's do what we can not dissuade people from running, and let's do what we can to support our current arbs who might become incumbents in the next election. Forcing arbitrary higher percentages does not support candidates.
 * To be very ad hominem, I'm grateful I got more than 60%. But I was at the low range of 60% and with just a handful of voters could have been at 59.9% (along with a few others in my tranche). That would absolutely have lead to a weaker committee, in absolute number and in diversity of opinion. Izno (talk) 16:33, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
 * All I'm saying is that these arguments can and have been made by many non-arbitrators. I agree with you that discussing this every year gets wearying. For better or worse, the barrier is by design very low for making a proposal regarding the elections, and since adjusting the thresholds is a really easy one for people to come up with, it's a perennial proposal. I agree it would make sense to discuss these proposals first, but the problem is history shows that it's very hard to get a critical mass of people involved before the annual elections RfC starts. isaacl (talk) 16:39, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Replacement class for toccolours?
Hi. I followed here from Village pump (technical)/Archive 202 after looking pretty much in vain for some documentation or explanation on what one is supposed to do to work around the breakage of elements using the class. (Specifically, I'm looking at Template:Map of Wat Phra Kaew.) Would you happen to have any suggestions? --Paul_012 (talk) 05:42, 14 September 2023 (UTC)


 * @Paul 012 in that specific template's case, I would convert what is presently the table with image and list cells to an image with list cells. The concern that drives me to that solution is twofold: 1, there isn't a replacement class (c.f. MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do has some sketching that I'm not really working on), and 2, what is in that template today is not mobile friendly/responsive. (It is clear to me why: it was designed for a desktop user.)
 * The image with list cells would look something like  using image key.
 * The other direction you could look is something like image frame and continue to have some other preferably-div-like structure (potentially using CSS flex). but that could retain the table potentially. Izno (talk) 05:55, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestions. Template:Image frame only seems to allow top/bottom positioning for the captions. Are there any methods that would make it possible to display the captions at the side for desktop users, while remaining accessible? --Paul_012 (talk) 06:10, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Not that I know of. Izno (talk) 06:19, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Belated thanks
Hello Izno, I wanted to thank you for talking through the dagger template issue with me. But I also wanted to wait a bit because you can't hear my voice and I didn't want to sound insincere. I think the current situation is much better than the goofy image setup, and appreciate your patience. Also, you may feel vindicated to know that after looking into the template's usage more, that the alt text parameters that I was so focused on salvaging appear to have been primarily unused and misused. Take care, Rjjiii (talk) 07:18, 18 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Good to hear they were misused. :-) Izno (talk) 16:11, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Claes Nobel for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Claes Nobel is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Claes Nobel& until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. Imaginatorium (talk) 16:32, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Precious anniversary
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:13, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Regarding Arbitration/Requests/Motions, specifically regarding infoboxes2, I am curious what you think is useful about a probation that the majority of present-day editors would not know about. I commented in the discussion, pointing at precise recent discussions. Could you perhaps explain where in those you think the probation made a difference. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:37, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of FunTown Mahjong for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article FunTown Mahjong, to which you have significantly contributed, is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or if it should be deleted.

The discussion will take place at Articles for deletion/FunTown Mahjong until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

To customise your preferences for automated AfD notifications for articles to which you've significantly contributed (or to opt-out entirely), please visit the configuration page. Delivered by SDZeroBot (talk) 01:01, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Navbox
Hi! Thanks a lot for your help with Infobox. Now I want to ask one question about Module:Navbox/configuration. I also want to locolise it to KazWiki, I did it, it's work with kazakh parameters, but i want to add English parameters too, becouse we have templates which use english parameters also. I tried do, but it's not work, can u watch it, please. Also, can I chat u through another SM, or it's okay only here for you?--Amangeldi Mukhamejan (talk) 12:21, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * @Amangeldi Mukhamejan, Module:Navbox does not currently support having multiple languages of parameters. If you would like it to, I would recommend requesting that on Template talk:Navbox and see if anyone is interested in implementing that. I do not really have the time right now for it. Izno (talk) 18:15, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for IPER edits
I'm just dropping a note to say thanks for being around to take care of my occasional interface-protected edit requests. If you ever get stuck with some template code or Linter-related syntax errors, feel free to drop me a line. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:58, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Contentious Topics
Hi, Izno. I've confused by your various recent edits with the summary "remove tag for rescinded contentious topic designation". Can you tell me what's changed? Are those pages no longer subject to sanctions arising from ArbCom decisions? AndyJones (talk) 16:13, 20 October 2023 (UTC)


 * @AndyJones, correct, see WP:ACN. Izno (talk) 20:14, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Great. Thanks for the clarification. AndyJones (talk) 12:05, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

User NdegwaNguru97
Hello. I wanted to ask for your help with user, who I had reported a few days ago for their addition of poorly sourced content and copyrighted material. You replied that I should re-report the user if they continued copyvio behavior. They continued their addition of poorly sourced content and are now starting to do page moves without explaining why. I gave them multiple warnings but they have continued with their disruptive editing and I re-reported them to WP:AIV but was told to take the report to WP:ANI and that I was making little effort to address the misunderstandings. I have tried my best to help the reported user with discussions on my talk page and their talk page. Telenovelafan215 (talk) 01:23, 29 October 2023 (UTC)


 * @Telenovelafan215, the issue I was most concerned with was the copy violations and were the reason I said you should re-report. I do not see continued copyright violation material. For the changes since the 26th, I definitely don't see anything I would block for. For example, this edit may be suboptimal but only if we consider that it's a Forbes contributor who appears to be reporting content accurately, which is generally permissible if not the best. In which case, I think @Daniel Case is completely fair to say that you should request a discussion at WP:ANI. Izno (talk) 22:07, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Template:Drag Race Belgique
Would you be willing to restore Template:Drag Race Belgique? I'd like to add to Drag Race Belgique, Drag Race Belgique (season 1), Drag Couenne, and Mademoiselle Boop. A second season has been confirmed, so Drag Race Belgique (season 2) is also expected soon. Thanks! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 23:11, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on List of Rurouni Kenshin chapters
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page List of Rurouni Kenshin chapters, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Izno&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=&preloadparams%5b%5d=1183241895 report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 02:14, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * A "missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Rurouni_Kenshin_chapters&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1183241895%7CList%20of%20Rurouni%20Kenshin%20chapters%5D%5D Ask for help])

George Foreman
Your help at George Foreman is greatly appreciated. However, I have a question. You initially put in an indefinite semi-protection only to change it a short time later to another one year protection. This page's previous semi-protection was also for one year and expired only minutes before the egregious vandalism resumed. Clearly this page is a vandalism target. Given these factors as well as the subject of the article being a BLP, wouldn't it make sense to just go indefinite this time or at least longer than another one year which has already proven to fail? Would you please consider making the semi-protection longer? Thanks. This Heart of Mine (talk) 02:48, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I came here to ask exactly the same thing, as I only just read the old protection log entries. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 02:55, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Based on IP address information, the vandalism may even have been carried out by the same person from last year. Might be worth checking accounts on that range for possible sleepers? —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 02:59, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @This Heart of Mine, I am generally uncomfortable setting edit protection to indefinite unless it's in the template space. The article is also under pending-changes protection, so next year should this happen, the system will continue not to display the bad content. If necessary at that time you could request an adjustment to the protection at WP:RFPP, or even if you want, you can request it today for another admin to take a second look (with my blessing). Izno (talk) 03:02, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Miss International 1960
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Miss International 1960, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Izno&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=&preloadparams%5b%5d=1184161600 report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 18:50, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miss_International_1960&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1184161600%7CMiss%20International%201960%5D%5D Ask for help])

Templates for discussion/Log/2023 November 1
A bit hasty, on Templates for discussion/Log/2023 November 1#‎Template:Unaffiliated synagogues in the United States and similar, don't you think? No one really addressed the matters I raised. Rangasyd (talk) 12:14, 9 November 2023 (UTC)


 * @Rangasyd, yes, and that's how XFD sometimes functions. If your comment had interpreted the relevant guideline/policy correctly I would have relisted, but with another user commenting after in favor of deletion and the fact that you misunderstood how the guideline of interest is applied left it fair game for a close. I do appreciate that you attempted to engage with the guideline. Izno (talk) 03:45, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

45.50.164.192
Hello, I noticed that there is another user who has been engaging in the same persistent pattern of disruption as the IP that you just blocked, on some of the same articles as the IP. Not sure if they are the same person. GenoV84 (talk) 05:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC)


 * @GenoV84 I've blocked for WP:Block evasion. Thanks for letting me know. Izno (talk) 05:34, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your help. GenoV84 (talk) 05:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

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unblocks
Hey, Izno! You wrote re:arbcom As probably the arbitrator who has issued the most unblocks this year as part of the role, nobody jumps up to do it. (I don't know why. Maybe expectation that someone else will, maybe the usual and true excuse of email exhaustion/confusion, maybe something else.) Is this something solvable? I agree unblocks should be treated as high-priority. Are arbcom blocks/unblocks more daunting because of extra bits of required work that come along with it? No urgency to respond, just thought I'd like to discuss. Valereee (talk) 15:28, 28 November 2023 (UTC)


 * @Valereee The work isn't really time consuming or difficult, we've now got a fairly-well documented path to "we came to a decision to unblock, now someone has to do specifically the paperwork/unblocking" ( had some arbwiki notes that I've spent some time improving) (the cat herding part precedes the part on which I commented, which is literally just the work of executing the decision). For me personally it's mostly the ever-present "I am now the face of an action that the committee could have to answer for" and being the face is likely the quickest way to get anyone knocking at the proverbial door to answer questions of why A Thing Was Done. Blocks are not dissimilar though as I said I'm not often the one to issue them. (Well, I don't think, I could look at my block log I guess versus the editors we have unblocked or downgraded a block for i.e. the ones for which the appeals process has become an onwiki thing.) Sending routine appeals emails announcing the result is also not all that dissimilar in some degree.
 * So, basically transparency is a drag to doing things sometimes for me (personally). :) I suspect most of our admins have similar "ugh I hate having to be the one that will be forevermore contacted about this user and/or decision I made" feelings about the things they do. Izno (talk) 00:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, got it. I'd assumed it was the paperwork. Thanks! Valereee (talk) 11:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Nauman335
In reference to this, I think there are two other accounts associated. Don't know if I should start a new SPI or where the appropriate location for the information is so just leaving it here for advice. I see that user:Roundabout777 left a message on the talk page of user:Waqasaslam1 which indicates they are familiar with that user's editing (despite seeing no other interaction - the message is strange). user:Waqasaslam1 then responds with "sometimes the news articles come in late and there's nothing to cite properly." This indicates to me they are creating content and waiting for a source in the media to be published (a sign of WP:NEWSORGINDIA). Looking at the contribution history for Waqasaslam1, the source they indicated was added by them shortly after, and the source indeed was published that same day. Believe these users are connected or the same (gaming the system) and likely UPE. CNMall41 (talk) 00:34, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @CNMall41, Roundabout and the earlier socks are pretty clear to see in the data and I didn't catch any other editors on the range that I looked at that looked like Roundabout. That does sound like a good case for attracting a UPE hunter so WP:COIN might be the right first stop. Izno (talk) 00:47, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. I happen to be the hunter (haha). I believe it is this firm which I started chasing a month or so ago. Filed about three SPIs related to them already (including this one). I think there are hundreds of accounts but I don't know what information to help you as a CU that can show them all related. Here is one that is still open as I emailed some private evidence which shows a few more experienced users who could be involved. --CNMall41 (talk) 00:51, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I actually just tied Roundabout777 to another SPI. user:WikiiUsee is an account I emailed private information about in reference to this SPI. I see that WikiiUsee and Roundabout777 both were editing Guru which was also heavily edited by the same IP range (beginning in the 200s) as many of the other pages in the SPI cases. --CNMall41 (talk) 01:20, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Ninja'd me
You appeared to have ninja'd me when reverting this edit to Centralised discussion, you may be aware.

(P.S: Is this word used to refer to this phenomenon much here (the term is on Wiktionary and it says that it's primarily used with Internet forums)?) Xeroctic (talk) 18:32, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I can't say I've seen it here a whole lot, no. Izno (talk) 18:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

SPI
Hey Izno. Can you please take a look at Sockpuppet investigations/Anankiaushdud? The sock (User:Sopesifat11) is currently creating new lists. Jeraxmoira (talk) 05:24, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

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Sockpuppet investigations/Lazy-restless
Hi, i think they are back with a new IP & created Draft:Writing Bengali in Arabic script with exactly same text. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 20:31, 23 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, i think they are back with new a IP Special:Contributions/202.134.14.147 & created same two draft with same text. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 15:34, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @আফতাবুজ্জামান, please report obvious block evasion to WP:AIV. Izno (talk) 20:42, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

A solstice greeting
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&#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 06:41, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Abusive sock is back
See Sockpuppet investigations/Observer1989. Ratnahastin (talk) 04:39, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Block evading IP
Hi there, this which you blocked for block evasion is now evading as. John Yunshire (talk) 05:26, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @John Yunshire, please report clear block evasion to AIV in the future. Izno (talk) 05:42, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Yo Ho Ho!
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CheckUser-related question
Hello, you closed a SPI case writing CUs will not connect IPs to accounts. WP:CHK says:

I am probably misreading something, could you please explain this to me? Thank you. Janhrach (talk) 19:56, 28 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Janhrach, yes, I can do these things with the tool. What I cannot do is tell you who the accounts are associated with those IPs. Please read the rest of the page you linked, especially WP:CUIPDISCLOSE. :) Izno (talk) 20:45, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, thank you for the explanation. Janhrach (talk) 07:46, 29 December 2023 (UTC)