User talk:J. Johnson/Introduction to citation

< Back to the essay

I feel that much of the confusion and difficulty in the use and understanding of citation practice on Wikipedia is due to conceptual confusion. The adjoining essay is my attempt to clarify those concepts. I hope these clarifications are accurate, presented clearly, and, above all, useful. However, that is not sufficient. Citation is a hot-button issue for many (most?) editors, many of whom have deep-seated prejudices on this topic, and are disinclined to review them. So a particular challenge here is how to get past the knee-jerk reactions of those who already "know" the answers. This is especially a problem where editors base a view on an underlying assumption which they will not review, and I would appreciate suggestions on how to handle that. I don't want to do a point-by-point development, as I don't want to scare off new editors, who don't need to be beaten with a stick to get their attention. Comments are welcome. And thanks for taking the time and effort to study the essay. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 21:04, 14 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Kim, for your interest. However, I have removed your comments because your misconception of the matter (did you even read the essay?) makes them quite irrelevant.  I am not interested in explaining that to you because previous experience shows your tenacity would make the effort largely futile, and I am NOT interesting in a battle. Note also that per WP:OWNTALK: "Users may freely remove comments from their own talk pages...." So please just leave it alone. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 22:46, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Since you refer to it as an essay here. I find your insistance on it being a part of your removal interesting.... --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 16:01, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi! Months ago you sent me this message:

Citation comments?

''Hi! How about being a test bunny for me? As a formerly perplexed user of citation I'd like your take on an essay I'm developing at User:J. Johnson/Introduction to citation. Comments can be left on the talk page there. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 20:30, 14 March 2012 (UTC)''

First, my apologies for taking so long to answer.

Next, my answer isn't really that helpful. :(

I'm exactly the opposite of a geek. I'm a gook! I'm still a perplexed user of citation; all I've figured out is how to click on the little book icon and type in exactly what I would put in an MLA or Turabian or APA citation. After that's inserted, I highlight the most appropriate part, click on the little link icon, and paste in the URL. I lose track of which of those 3 styles to use, and no article I've run across is consistent, anyway. Harvard? What's that?

This page just baffles me. So do these sections of your talk page. Jack intrigues me. I stand in awe of these edits by Scarpy.

Now, about the essay. It's too advanced for beginners. What we need is just a step-by-step example of how to cite something. Maybe what I should do is keep this handy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_templates#Examples Those things always bother me when I run across them in text, which, surprisingly, isn't all that often. It seems that most articles I get into are edited by editors no brighter than I.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful to you, or, frankly, you to me. I don't speak your technical language. I had the same feeling recently--a young man helped me install Google Chrome and handed me a book he said would help me use my computer more easily. It was CODE: The Hidden Language of Computer Hardware and Software. He said all his family members quit at Chap. 8 where Petzgold discusses binary. I sailed on through that --I get binary even though I'm not at all efficient in doing operations in it--and enjoyed learning about hex in Chap. 15. The next chapter, though, just had too many gates, relays, and flip-flops. Clock input? Q-bar? 8-bit latch? Alas! I quit, to my young friend's disappointment. Yopienso (talk) 23:01, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Flip-flops?!! The first book I ever read on computers had a whole chapter on how to build a "flip-flop", aka "bistable multivibrator". Out of vacuum tubes, no less. Yup, that was pretty important — back then. Now? I can't recall the last time I heard anyone even mention the term.
 * No apologies necessary. You and your feedback are important to me as I reckon you are representative of a large class of editors.  And I am interested (when I can get time for it) in what might be helpful in getting better use of citations.  Maybe eventually I'll have some improvements for the help pages, but meanwhile I'm still casting about.  Thanks for taking the time and effort. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 19:54, 18 August 2012 (UTC)