User talk:J3Mrs/Archive 0

Re: prospective adoptee
Hello there J3Mrs,

I would love to be of assistance. Hopefully the links provided above this message will be useful to you in terms of finding quick answers to your questions. Other questions may be fired in my direction, or at a rather fantastic and very supportive team of voluteers from our region at the WikiProject Greater Manchester (feel free to raise queries at the talk page).

First and foremost, please don't worry about making a mistake—Wikipedia uses software that allows errors to be reversed without any detriment to the original content of the page. You are free to be bold in updating and upgrading articles. Was there something specific I could help with? --Jza84 | Talk  18:21, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi again and thanks for the welcome,

I would really like to know how to cite references, the edits I have made could easily be referenced to some of the local history books I have. I have not copied from the books, just rephrased the facts in my own words, I think that is the right thing to do.

After that I would like to illustrate the article with photographs I have taken. I take lots of photographs, some of which I submit to "Geograph" so I understtand about licences.

If I could do either of these things I could add more info. I think if it is not referenced it would be deleted???

--J3Mrs (talk) 18:42, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, thats no problem at all J3Mrs,


 * In short, yes - if references are not provided, then any content you submit is at the mercy of other editors. This isn't to make things hard for you - it's really about showing our readers that the material we add is factually sound, came from a reliable resource and can be verified by them and others at any time in the future. We want Wikipedia to have an excellent reputation as a free online educational tool, so citing sources (particularly about controvertial or exceptional claims) really helps everyone.


 * Citing sources is challenging, and this I freely admit. It's not easy to grasp as a new comer (as I know from experience when I first joined the team). But don't worry, we're here to help, and done once, twice, three times, it all falls into place. There isn't a better guide than the following really: (Citing sources).

Click on "show" to open contents.


 * That's our official instruction page. However, I would personally recommend a different approach; for example, take a look at Radcliffe, Greater Manchester (one of our finest pages), click the edit tab at the top of the page and have a look at how the references are slotted in behind sentences with a code (it will appear as, for example,, showing that this source is from a book by two authors, published in the year 2000 and the infomation is on pages 24 and 25). Provided you have the code (known as a template) at the bottom (which Tyldesley does already, thankfully), the book reference will appear automatically when you save your changes. You can adopt this style (cut, paste and change even) for the Wigan related content you seek to expand.

Does that help at all? --Jza84 | Talk  16:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Detailed help
As Jza84 says, welcome to wikipedia! Wikipedia has some decent articles about Greater Manchester, but the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan is certainly a weak area, and if you can use a local history book to add more information and add sources that would be great :-) I hope you don't mind me answering instead of Jza84, but I saw your post on his talk page.

How to reference from a book isn't too difficult. There are many ways to do it, but what I like to do is add a bibliography section to an article with the details of the books used and then just refer to it later. Inline citations which look like this allow the reader to see what information has come from where. When adding an inline reference for a book which is in the bibliography, all you need to do is give three pieces of information: author's surname, the year the book was published (in case the author has written more than one book), and the page number. Here's an example: The text between will appear in a reference section at the end of the article. To make the reference section, just add.

A useful template when writing the details of a book for the bibliography is: and just fill in the fields as appropriate (first and list are for the author's names). If you add in "|url=" to that template you can even reference web pages. There are many different ways of referencing on wikipedia, so don't be put off if this doesn't look like what other people have done, Jza84 will probably have his own style :-)

As for images, here's an example: this produces the image on the right. If you know the name of the image on wikipedia you want to use, just write it instead of "Image:Parsonage Colliery 1980.jpg". "Right" changes the alignment of the image, so obviously "left" would put the image on the left.

Finally, the edits you've made look good and if you can reference them all the better. Don't be afraid to be bold because mistakes can be undone. I hope this helps and if you've got any other questions feel free to drop a note on my talk page or Jza84's. Happy editing, Nev1 (talk) 18:29, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Websites and Wikimedia Commons
Hello again! I placed the reply to your question here, under a new heading, to help keep things flowing.

The first issue you raised was about using websites as references. This is pretty straightforward once you've tried it out. But, it's probably best shown by this page, which show the difference between an old version of Tyldesley, with a new version in which User:Nev1 has added a website as a reference. If you look at the red text, you can see that Nev1 has used the elements to open and close the reference, but in between these, has inserted the cite web template (if you click on that link it has further details about using it). Does that help?

With regards to using images at geograph, I'm afraid it's a case of uploading the images to Wikimedia Commons from there or your own PC. Wikipedia's software can only display images that are held on its servers. But I can aid you in this if you desire? --Jza84 | Talk  20:12, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Not trying to add to any uncertainty here, hopefully to make things easier, but if you've adopted the suggestions above to use the citation template for book references (which I would also recommend), then you should also use it for web references, because the two template family's format in slightly different ways. It's exactly the same as example above, just with citation replacing cite web. Has the advantage as well that you only need to learn how to use one template. --Malleus Fatuorum 14:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Great work
Hi J3Mrs,

Just a note that I revisted the Tyldesley article today, and I'm really enjoying the content you're adding. It's really brought the place to life about this interesting town. Hope you are willing and able to keep up the great work. :-) --Jza84 | Talk  10:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Jza84. I have loads of info, the hard bit is figuring out the refs & citations but I have looked at the other pages and an gradually figuring out how to do it. A bit of encouragement goes a long way :-)--J3Mrs (talk) 09:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I have made a list of operational collieries in Tyldesley in the 19th C but am unsure if I have the citations from strong enough sources, or that I have done them correctly. How can I, (or somebody else) check without going public, it's an awful lot to undo--J3Mrs (talk) 12:49, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

You should seek advice on the Reliable sources/Noticeboard. Explain your query there, giving full details of the proposed references. For advice on what is and is not a reliable source, see WP:RS.  Chzz  ►  12:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you--J3Mrs (talk) 12:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikimedia Commons
Hi J3Mrs,

I noticed you'd fathomed out Wikimedia Commons. I just wondered if you plan to upload more images? I was hoping in particular that Tyldesley Town Hall could be used and affixed to the Governance section of the page? Would be great at it seems Tyldesley Council was never granted a coat of arms. --Jza84 | Talk  15:30, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I've only fathomed out how to put on new images I haven't put anywhere else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Please do put the Tyldesley Town Hall picture in the Governance section. I tried to put St George's Church in Landmarks but it seems there's a problem of some sort.


 * I think I'm coming to the end of the info I have, what should I be looking for next? --J3Mrs (talk) 15:34, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd give WP:GM a nudge that you are nearing the end of your material and ask if they might have anything that could help? I have a few books about the region as a whole - they might reveal the odd quotation or so, so I'll have a look. I'd also try to emulate some of our heavy-weight pages - something like Ashton-under-Lyne or Radcliffe, Greater Manchester? Royton is a good article that might give you some ideas.


 * I think I can put the church image in for you (and once I've done it, I'll show you how). The Tyldesley Town Hall picture seems like it's quite a low resolution. Do you have it in a higher resolution on your hard drive by any chance? --Jza84 | Talk  15:55, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ I have added the church image. The addition I made is shown in red in this comparison of the article. Hope that helps, --Jza84 | Talk  16:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes I have the original--J3Mrs (talk) 16:00, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If you could upload it to Wikimedia Commons, or else add it to Flickr (again sorry), I think I can get it to function properly. :) --Jza84 | Talk  16:03, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Chowbent Chapel.JPG
Thank you for uploading File:Chowbent Chapel.JPG. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. B (talk) 02:24, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Memorial to Caleb Wright, Chowbent Chapel.JPG
Thank you for uploading File:Memorial to Caleb Wright, Chowbent Chapel.JPG. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. B (talk) 02:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Greater Manchester August Newsletter, Issue XVIII
Nev1 (talk) 18:04, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Tyldesley for GA?
How do feel about nominating Tyldesley for a good article assessment? I think it's about there now, and I also think that you've done some great work with it, for which you deserve some recognition and reward.

It's easy to do; just follow the instructions at WP:GAN, but if you get stuck just let me know. Remember as well that you won't be on your own. I'll help out with any issues that crop up during the review where I can, and so will other GM project members. --Malleus Fatuorum 22:51, 1 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Well if I'm honest a bit apprehensive, flattered that you think it's good enough.

Do I have to do it? I'm going to be busy until the middle of next week and away from the computer. Can I do it next week? I might need therapy if I feel under pressure, I retired so I could avoid the pressure :/ My one finger typing is already becoming less steady :(  --J3Mrs (talk) 20:19, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


 * There's no need to nominate the article for GAN at all if you don't want to (and it can be done whenever). All it does is give recognition that an article is good (head and shoulders above the average wikipedia article) and give some pointers to improve it further. I agree with Malleus that Tyldesley is there and there abouts as far as the standard is concerned for GAs. If you're interested, WP:GM would be happy to help you through GA, but if you feel there's pressure just continue with what you're doing now. While GA is usually a fine experience, it's not for everyone, and I'd rather you stick around and improve more of Wigan's articles than leave because you don't like pressure! Nev1 (talk) 20:26, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I will do it but next week, You are all very complimentary. PS Nev I'm a "she" :) --J3Mrs (talk) 20:30, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


 * GAN is usually helpful and positive, at least in my experience, nothing to be apprehensive about. I think it's good to have someone entirely independent look over the article, and very likely spot things that may not be so obvious to us. I like it as well because it draws a line under the article's development. Sure, anything can be improved, but you know that it's become some of wikipedia's best work because of the effort and committment you put into it. Of the English wikipedia's over 3 million articles, only about 7,250 are GAs, so that gives you some idea of the scale of the achievement. Still, as Nev1 said, the most important thing is that you enjoy what you're doing. --Malleus Fatuorum 20:56, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Well here goes, I'll give it a go!--J3Mrs (talk) 14:19, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope I did it right and I hope you will help because I really don't have a lot of idea if something isn't right with the article.


 * Everything looks fine. Just have to sit back now and wait for a reviwer to turn up. I'll post a note on the GM project page letting everyone know that Tyldesley's at GAN. I'm sure everything will be fine. --Malleus Fatuorum 14:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Brace yourself J3Mrs, Tyldesley is now being reviewed. You're lucky enough to have got a very good reviewer in Pyrotec though. --Malleus Fatuorum 22:09, 4 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I am braced but tired so I will sleep on it and hope. :)


 * I have been braced for so long I can no longer think :(--J3Mrs (talk) 13:23, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I think that it's probably all over bar the shouting now, so you can relax and put your feet up. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum 13:41, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Well it is all over and I'd like to thank you for putting me up to it. I might have a celebratory cake :)

I have learned a lot but was way out of my comfort zone, now I know how little I know. Thanks again--J3Mrs (talk) 14:50, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Well done! Nev1 (talk) 21:08, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Cheers Nev1, I see you got Wigan to GA as well, so well done to you too :) --J3Mrs (talk) 09:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Middleton, West Yorkshire
Well done on your improvements to the Miggie page. Being as the page has improved I shall try make time to get some better images for it as I am fairly local. Cheers, Mtaylor848 (talk) 16:32, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Nice of you to say so. I must say I am not wholly convinced of the ref to iron mining, I don't know where the newspaper got it from. I have the archaeological survey of the park done by WYAS and it isn't mentioned except to say there was no evidence,. Thanks for the compliment, I shall try to do more.--J3Mrs (talk) 17:15, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Leeds
Hi J3Mrs, hope all's well. I replied on my talk page. :) --Jza84 | Talk  16:57, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much. Please edit Talk:Leeds/draft directly. If I spot any problems with citations I will happily fix them. As a tip, contruct the cite web or cite book part first and preview it before enclosing in and tags. I often have to do this! MRSC (talk) 13:47, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Leigh
I've had a first look through Leigh, and I think it's pretty close to being a good GA nomination. There's usually quite a queue at GAN, so I'd nominate it now if I were you, and fix a few things I spotted that could probably do with fixing while you're waiting.


 * It's best to stick with one citation template, and not mix them, as their outputs can be subtly different. The article mostly uses citation (my favourite), but there are also a few cite webs in there as well, probably a hangover from before you started work on the article.


 * I'd also make sure that all of the citations have full details, particularly publisher and last accessdate. Ref #3, for instance is just a bare URL.


 * In the Demography section you're using metric units (hectares) with no imperial conversions, but everywhere else in the article you're using imperial and providing metric conversions. Needs to be consistent.


 * Is the Pennington Park mentioned right at the end of the Township section the same as the Pennington Flash Country Park in the See also section? If so, then the mention in the article ought to be linked and the See also section deleted.


 * It's fine to link to the main List of ... article in the Notable people section, but there needs to be some text in there as well, such as a brief description of the most notable people from Leigh.

--Malleus Fatuorum 22:02, 2 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I really didn't expect you to do it immediately, but thank you :-) I have a short list of Notable People I can reference so I'll do that. Some of the stuff I've not put in has no references so I'll try to find some or change it. Pennington Park isn't Pennington Flash Country Park, confusingly enough. I'll have a go at the citations, (but I still haven't really learned how to do them- must try harder) Now to remember how to do GAN :-( Would you please stick a little GA sticker for Tyldesley on the GM map, I can't figure out how to do it. I really do appreciate your time, hope you weren't too bored. --J3Mrs (talk) 22:14, 2 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Tyldesley's now on the map! Not bored at all, glad to be able to help. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum 22:43, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations on another GA. I'll add Leigh to the map as well now.

On a slightly different subject, I've been a great supporter of the GA process for some time now, so I'm curious to know how you've found it, having been through it twice now. Better or worse than you expected? --Malleus Fatuorum 23:02, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I believe if I'm going to do something I might as well do it properly. The first time it was really nerve wracking, this time, after you'd given it the once over, it wasn't so bad. What worried me was if I had to find refs for the bits I hadn't written, but now I think about it I tried to reference some of it before I started. Mind you I didn't have to wait long enough to get completely panic stricken did I? If you find time to look at Atherton I'll.............. give it a third go(Famous last words) if it's ok.--J3Mrs (talk) 23:11, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Leigh's now on the map. Thanks to you Wigan's looking quite respectable now with three GAs. I'll look over Atherton probably tomorrow—assuming I'm not blocked again by then. :lol: --Malleus Fatuorum 23:23, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Atherton, Greater Manchester
I've started looking at Atherton, but there seems to be a problem with at least some of the citations in the Demography section. Ref #51, for instance has the wrong title and doesn't support the info in the sentence. --Malleus Fatuorum 00:34, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Lead
 * I think the amount of history included overbalances the lead a bit at the moment, but that can be addressed when the rest of the article is fixed up.


 * Early history
 * You might have trouble persuading a reviewer that this is a reliable source.
 * I agree but it's one I didn't put in and I can't find where he got the info ???--J3Mrs (talk) 15:34, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd comment it out in that case, so it could easily be put back if you ever do find one. --Malleus Fatuorum 15:40, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Done that --J3Mrs (talk) 15:55, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Geography
 * "... and there are roads to Tyldesley and Wigan, the A572." That's only one road. Did you mean that the A572 goes to Tyldesley and Wigan?


 * I'll contact Fingerpuppet re the "Demography" section.

Well the A572 does go to Tyldesley in one direction and Wigan in the other, I have phrased it badly haven't I? :-( Perhaps I should just miss out the road number??? I do make a lot of work for you, sorry --J3Mrs (talk) 10:24, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I've rewritten that. --Malleus Fatuorum 15:09, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Governance
 * Needs to say something about parliamentary representation.
 * In the process..............--J3Mrs (talk) 15:34, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Added MP.--J3Mrs (talk) 16:13, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Economy
 * I think this needs to be expanded a bit, to at least twice its present size. I'd move the last paragraph of Demography into this section for starters. Take a look at this example, for instance. Admittedly that's an FA rather than a GA, but it gives an idea of what we should be aiming for.
 * Moved that :-) --J3Mrs (talk) 16:12, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Is that what we're aiming for ?????? --J3Mrs (talk) 16:16, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Big improvement. I think we're getting close to there or thereabouts for GAN now. --Malleus Fatuorum 17:11, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm left wondering what Atherton's economy is based on today, now that all(?) its industries have closed down? Where do people find employment? Has it become a commuter town?


 * OK read that, am not good with statistics but will have a go :-( but it will probably be tomorrow :-)--J3Mrs (talk) 15:34, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Notable residents
 * Citations should be provided for each one of the residents included here.


 * My pet hate! "... hail from Atherton". What does that mean exactly? Born in Atherton? Live in Atherton? Stand in the middle of the town shouting at the rest of the world?


 * Surely only one of your pet hates? Well the lot in my list were all born there so I'll change it. By the way my pet hate is notable people from wherever, (mainly because I've never heard of any soap "stars") :-)--J3Mrs (talk) 20:11, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * One of them, yes, you're quite right; being a grumpy old man I do have quite a few. One of which is that Notable people section, which too often gets clogged up with minor TV celebrities or footballers who may once have lived there. But I reserve my real contempt for In popular culture sections. :lol: --Malleus Fatuorum 20:33, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Final thoughts before GAN
I think this is pretty close now, but two or three things still left to do:


 * I think the article could do with a few more images. I added a couple I found at geograph, but I think it could do with a few more. A picture of the railway station perhaps?


 * I have attempted to upload "1011887_7588ef33-by-Peter-Whatley.jpg" but forgot to change the filename so I am baffled as to what to do next.:-( --J3Mrs (talk) 12:07, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I found a later (1989) image on Commons and used that instead; hope that's OK. --Malleus Fatuorum 12:31, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Some of the "notable people" need citations to show that they really were born in Atherton.
 * added two refs.--J3Mrs (talk) 12:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I still have the feeling that there are some loose ends with the Economy section that need to be fixed before the lead can be finalised. OK, Athertons industry has apparently all but closed down, but yet 20% of the population still work in manufacturing. Are they commuting out of the town to work, or is there a significant manufacturing base that we haven't described? If nobody else does first, I'll download the census tables and try to tie up that loose end. Hopefully somebody else will get there first though. :-)


 * I found a present day bolt manufacturer and put it in, hope it's ok--J3Mrs (talk) 12:07, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll check the figures for how many people are actually employed in the town as opposed to the number of people employed and add a little bit about the present-day economy to the lead shortly. Then I think it'll be good to go. --Malleus Fatuorum 12:31, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Industrial history
 * What does this mean? "Gibfield Colliery was working in 1829, coal was mined from the Trencherbone locally the Five Foot Mine alongside the Bolton and Leigh Railway." --Malleus Fatuorum 12:36, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

I think when that's done, this would stand a pretty good chance at GAN. --Malleus Fatuorum 23:55, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Just two more things to do before GAN

 * In the Geography section it says: "... Chanters Brook in the valley ...". What valley? this is the first time a valley's been mentioned. Is Atherton built in a valley?


 * rewritten it, hope it's an improvement.


 * Nigel Short needs to be cited in the Notable people section.
 * found one

--Malleus Fatuorum 18:50, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, what can I say? I can't believe how much trouble you have taken putting my mere jottings through the proverbial mill, and me too I might add:-)! I think I have been treated to something of a masterclass and I sincerely hope some of it has stuck! You really are the most helpful wikipedian ever! --J3Mrs (talk) 19:14, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I like to try and lead by example, and help others to do the same. When I was new I was unlucky enough to fall foul of a know-it-all editor who was very condescending, and it's an experience I wouldn't want anyone else to have to go through. Hopefully other editors will look at these articles and think of them as models and examples of good practice as well, so it's worth the effort. I'm sure there will be a few things come up at GAN, there almost always is, but nothing you won't be able to handle I'm quite certain. I'll be watching it anyway, just in case. --Malleus Fatuorum 19:23, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * You make a great teacher. Well after all you have done I'm not sure I'm the one who ought to nominate it but I will, if I can remember how to do it. :-) --J3Mrs (talk) 19:27, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Get some cake and red wine in for tomorrow, You don't need them tonight. Pyrotec (talk) 22:30, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * What makes you think I need to get them in, we have copious supplies!! :) I'll look in as often as I can while I am painting :( I think MF has already put me through the mill on this so I can feel my skin getting thicker by the article! --J3Mrs (talk) 22:36, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:1011887 7588ef33-by-Peter-Whatley.jpg
A tag has been placed on File:1011887 7588ef33-by-Peter-Whatley.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image is an unused redundant copy (all pixels the same or scaled down) of an image in the same file format, which is on Wikipedia (not on Commons), and all inward links have been updated.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Malleus Fatuorum 12:12, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't be alarmed, I'm just moving it to Commons. --Malleus Fatuorum 12:13, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Wakefield
Good work on the Wakefield article. Sorry I haven't been of more help. I've been away for a couple of days. I was thinking of tackling geography and demography next, is that OK? I don't want to step in if you've already got stuff in the pipeline.--Harkey (talk) 16:32, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Demography would be excellent, I'm hopeless there. I have a few notes on Geography but nothing finished. Do you think it's ok to do such major pruning? There's a lot of other stuff that's not very encyclopedic either :( --J3Mrs (talk) 17:40, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the pruning is fine as long as there is some more encyclopedic text to replace it. Most of the text in the article is quite dated. Transport is a bit too gossipy too! I'll look at demography tomorrow - needs a clear head!!--Harkey (talk) 19:06, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I've been improving the citations as I get to them (some don't go anywhere), which is an amazing step forward for me thanks to Malleus Fatuorum for that, and added a bibliography. There's quite a lot of stuff, it's deciding what to use that's the problem. If you think it's ok I'd like to add a bit of history to the transport system to put it in context, (just a few lines on canals, turnpikes and coaches, trams? rather than an ad for the free bus). Most of the lists can be turned into prose.


 * You've got three GAs under your belt now, you know what's expected. From my quick look through the Wakefield article you're going to be pretty busy over the next few weeks. :-) --Malleus Fatuorum 20:04, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I know, I know and I know, and I wish I worked a bit faster but well this Lancastrian thought she'd have a go. :-) Anyhow you can always tell me off if I'm getting it wrong (water off a duck's back these days);-) --J3Mrs (talk) 20:41, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I won't be telling you off for anything. You go for it girl! :-) --Malleus Fatuorum 22:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC)