User talk:JSFarman/Archive 5

Lengthy protest to my decline of Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Marcan Entertainment ... Dear JSFarman:

Thank you for reviewing the article of Marcan Entertainment. We've made an adjustment to the language of the article to be more on the side of neutral point of view as you pointed out with some key words.

I would like to convey two things to counter your objections in regards to showing music release (in which you’ve mentioned it wasn’t necessary to show all the release) and notability of Marcan Entertainment.

First, I would like to reference these two music production companies that are published articles on Wikipedia where they’ve listed all of their releases. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dsign_Music and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandit

Please note that Dsign Music (Pop music production label) uses the term “Production Highlights” but they are in fact its all of their music release since inception of the company to present. We are fully aware of the company’s release since they are in same K-pop and Asian music market. Also, their website depicts same releases as their Wikipedia page reflects.

Also, Vandit (EDM production label) uses the term “Releases” which shows inconsistent sequences of releases but it’s most of their music releases that were released to the public. It may confuse the reader of the article because release sequences numbers are random but when you go into Vandit.com website, it lists all of their releases in this order, which matches the releases from their Wikipedia article. (i.e. in the beginning of the release article, they start at random but starting towards the middle of the page, it lists its release from “VANDIT 001 through “VANDIT 109” there are few missing releases because they were never released to the public.)

Second, it’s agreeable that Marcan Entertainment’s references and its presence on the Internet may be limited because it’s music publishing and production company that is only over 3 years old. Unless the reviewer is keen and informative on Asian market specifically such as Kpop (Korean pop music), it may be portrayed as less qualified in the qualification of notability.

However, there are two sources to verify the legitimacy of the notoriety in the field of Kpop music. The first obvious reason is CD album jackets that reflect the releases of Marcan Entertainment’s tracks. All the Kpop artists’ album that Marcan had worked on shows the credit of Marcan Entertainment writers and Marcan Entertainment as publisher. (I’m not sure Wikipedia accepts photos scan of CD jackets to suffice the concern of valid music production credits.) But for now, you can verify and match the writers name on the releases that are listed from Marcan Writer/Producer section to the Wikipedia album pages below.

Other source is the sales number of physical copies of CD albums that were sold through out the world that includes Marcan Entertainment's releases not including digital downloads. Total volume of sales are over 3.5 million records worldwide. Here are some highlights.


 * Hyori Lee – H-LOGIC (4th Album) – Sold 31,756 copies (As of 2010) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-Logic
 * f/x - Pinocchio (1st Album) - Sold 128,179 (As of September 2011) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinocchio_(f(x)_album)
 * SHINee – Lucifer (2nd Album) – Sold 250,180 copies (As of 2010) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_(Shinee_album)
 * SHINee – The First (Japan Release) – Sold 100,000+ (As of 2011) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_(album)
 * SHINee – Lucifer (Japan Single Release) – Sold 62,193 (As of 2011) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_(Shinee_song)
 * SHINee - Why So Serious? (The 3rd Album) - Sold 155,941 (As of May 2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_So_Serious%3F_%E2%80%93_The_Misconceptions_of_Me
 * Super Junior – Bonamana (4th Album) – Sold 403,000+ copies (As of December 2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonamana
 * Super Junior – Mr. Simple (5th Album) – Sold 551,332+ copies (As of September 2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Simple
 * TVXQ – Tone (5th Album / Japan Release) – Sold 331,320 (As of 2011) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_(TVXQ_album)
 * EXO – XOXO (1St Album /World-Wide Release) Sold 1,712,222+ (As of December 2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XOXO_(album)

Physical CD's that were sold above has the name Marcan Entertainment as publisher/producer and its writers credited for songs and tracks that were produced and written inside the CD jacket. Lastly, please bear in mind that Dsign Music and Vandit whose articles are published in Wikipedia doesn’t have much presence on the Internet as you can even see on their Wikipedia page. These two companies are serving the general public in similar capacity as Marcan Entertainment, except Vandit's productions are mainly in Electronic Dance Music (EDM). Also, please note that Marcan Entertainment’s publication of music volume sales (3.5 mm plus and on going) mentioned above alone out paces by far all of Vandit’s catalogue release sales volume up to date.

I hope I was able to clarify some of the questionable notations you made in this regard. I’ll wait for your favorable reply.

-freefive Freefive (talk) 22:17, 25 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Freefive (talk). Thank you for taking so much time with this, and also, thank you for editing the article and removing the non-neutral terms.  Marcan may well be notable based on the amount of music that's been sold, but that needs to be highlighted and demonstrated.    Maybe start with explaining what Marcan Entertainment is, and say that the catalogue has sold more more than 3.5 million songs/albums/etc?  Then you  just need to reference it.  (It needs to be verifiable through an independent, reliable source.)


 * Re: Vandit and Dsign Music: Please see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.


 * Re: Full catalogue listing - it's less onerous now that you've removed the promotional language from the article. But it would be helpful if you wikilinked the releases that can be wikilinked, as you've done above.  A reader should be easily able to access information about the music if it's available. See WP:LINK.  Also -  it's not incumbent upon the reader to do the research necessary to track down the affiliation between the records/artists and Marcan Entertainment.   Anything (reliable, independent) that you can reference?   Consider also just including "notable releases" that can be verified. See WP:VERIFY as well as WP:MOS for alternative formatting options.


 * The fact that the company is only three years old and that coverage doesn't yet exist isn't relevant. See WP:NRV.  Also - neither a reviewer nor a reader should need to be "keen and informative on Asian market specifically such as Kpop (Korean pop music)" to understand why the subject of the article is notable.  It needs to be evident to any reader, regardless of his/her expertise.


 * The references you used in the original submission don't demonstrate notability: the Marcan website, Facebook, and Twitter aren't independent, and the remaining references are about artists, not the company. You need references that are specifically about Marcan Entertainment.


 * The article as it currently stands is much better than it was! Feel free to hit me back after you've added the references, and I'll be glad to take a look at it again.  Thanks!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 01:55, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Dear Ms. Farman:

Thank you so much for your sound advice! I apologize about editing the talk constantly. I didn't know that you were being notified every time I made a correction. I've taken your advice and updated the page with references. Some of the references are in Korean language but they are from reputable sources. I've also updated with appropriate links from outside sources as well as wikipedia pages to its subjects and context. Please review it at your convenience and let me know what else might be needed to better the article. Thank you again and hope you had wonderful and safe holidays.

-freefive Freefive (talk) 00:41, 4 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello again Freefive (talk), and happy new year! The article looks much better; what you've done with the wikilinks is perfect.  I'm still concerned about the lack of references, though. I'm not saying that Marcan isn't notable, but according to WP policies, notability needs to be demonstrated by independent sources covering the company in-depth.  That means articles (or books, journals, etc) that are expressly about Marcan. It may just be that it's too soon.  (I know you said that the company is young.)  Please resubmit the article when you feel confident that you've added the necessary sources!  Thanks.  Julie JSFarman (talk) 05:41, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Dear Ms. Farman,

Thanks for your reply. I’ve delved into the guidelines of notability stated by Wikipedia and found applicable rules that help Marcan Entertainment article to be published. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability

Under the general notability guideline it states:

'''•	"Reliable" means sources need editorial integrity to allow verifiable evaluation of notability, per the reliable source guideline. Sources may encompass published works in all forms and media, and in any language. Availability of secondary sources covering the subject is a good test for notability. '''•	"Sources"[2] should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability. There is no fixed number of sources required since sources vary in quality and depth of coverage, but multiple sources are generally expected.[3] Sources do not have to be available online and do not have to be in English. Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability. '''

This guideline states “published works in all forms and media, and in any language” is also a common factor determining the notability of the subject and “availability of secondary sources covering the subject is good test for notability”.

Under the guidelines and definition provided by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Published

CD and DVD format available to general public that is accessible for review in some manner is defined as accessible source and published works.

•	''A film, video, CD, or DVD distributed to theatres or video stores; a radio program including its contents actually broadcast; a television broadcast; a streaming video or audio source on the Internet; a song recording distributed to a public; 

Examples of accessible (defined by Wikipedia)

'''* An item that is available, in at least one public library, anywhere in the world, is considered "accessible".

* A book that can be bought in at least one store, anywhere in the world, including a used bookstore, is "accessible".

* A live event that was neither recorded nor transcribed is "inaccessible".

* A web list or forum must be both public and archived in a public location to be considered "accessible".

* A radio or television program that is archived by the broadcaster is "accessible" if the broadcaster allows people to visit the studio and listen to the program (perhaps for a fee); it is "inaccessible" if the general public is not allowed to listen to the program.

* Any item that is inaccessible, due to zero copies being available to the public at this time (even if copies were available to the public once upon a time) is "inaccessible"'''

Our published works are accessible by general public through all of these methods above. Also, this means the reference source doesn’t necessarily have to be “books, scholar, JSTOR” to be qualified for independent sources.

Since Marcan Entertainment is a music production and publishing company, having a verified source such as CD imprints that contains “Marcan Entertainment” as publisher and producer for mentioned releases that are available through public libraries, itunes, other publicly available internet music merchants and sites, and music record stores world-wide, alone should be sufficient for notability criteria defined by Wikipedia.

Hence, if anyone who is reading the article of Marcan Entertainment can verify the notability by accessing CD albums that contains Marcan’s releases and there will be no doubt in any reader’s mind that Marcan is music publishing and production company (in which that’s exactly what the article entails nothing more.)

As in regards to verifiability and its notability requirement:

Notability requires verifiable evidence

'''The common theme in the notability guidelines is that there must be verifiable, objective evidence that the subject has received significant attention from independent sources to support a claim of notability. The absence of citations in an article (as distinct from the non-existence of sources) does not indicate that the subject is not notable.'''

'''No subject is automatically or inherently notable merely because it exists: The evidence must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition, and that this was not a mere short-term interest, nor a result of promotional activity or indiscriminate publicity, nor is the topic unsuitable for any other reason. Sources of evidence include recognized peer reviewed publications, credible and authoritative books, reputable media sources, and other reliable sources generally.'''

'''Editors evaluating notability should consider not only any sources currently named in an article, but also the possibility of notability-indicating sources that are not currently named in the article. Notability requires only the existence of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate citation. Wikipedia articles are not a final draft, and an article's subject can be notable if such sources exist, even if they have not been named yet. However, once an article's notability has been challenged, merely asserting that unspecified sources exist is seldom persuasive, especially if time passes and actual proof does not surface. If it is likely that significant coverage in independent sources can be found for a topic, deletion due to lack of notability is inappropriate.'''

This policy indicates subject has to have significant attention from independent sources (published works that includes all forms of media) to support the claim of notability. I believe this policy is sufficed through already sold 3.5 million and on going published material (CD albums) that reflects Marcan Entertainment as publisher and producer for claimed works. And also, the availability of these works to general public in the world is surely accessible through stated medium by Wikipedia.

This policy also concludes “Notability requires “only” the “existence” of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate citation”. This further supports that Marcan Entertainment has met the criteria of notability. When you click on the “existence” from Wikipedia:Notability page, it leads to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Published which I’ve demonstrated with afore mentioned.

Another policy by Wikipedia you might want to look at is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(music)

Under this notability guideline, it states

Criteria for musicians and ensembles [edit]

A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, DJ, musical theatre group, instrumentalist, etc.) may be notable if it meets at least one of the following criteria:

'''* 1. Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself.[note 1] This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, online versions of print media, and television documentaries[note 2] except for the following: Any reprints of press releases, other publications where the musician or ensemble talks about themselves, and all advertising that mentions the musician or ensemble, including manufacturers' advertising.[note 3] Works consisting merely of trivial coverage, such as articles that simply report performance dates, release information or track listings, or the publications of contact and booking details in directories. Articles in a school or university newspaper (or similar), in most cases.'''

* 2. Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart.[note 4]

* 3. Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one country.

* 4. Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.[note 5]

* 5. Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are notable).

* 6. Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably-prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles.[note 6] This should be adapted appropriately for musical genre; for example, having performed two lead roles at major opera houses.

* 7. Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability.

* 8. Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury, Choice or Grammy's award.

* 9. Has won or placed in a major music competition.

* 10. Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc. (But if this is the only claim, it is probably more appropriate to have a mention in the main article and redirect to that article. Read WP:BLP1E and WP:BIO1E for further clarifications)

* 11. Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network.

* 12. Has been a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or TV network.''

Even though, Marcan Entertainment isn’t exactly a musician, but I believe it fits the criteria of musician since Marcan produces and publishes music. It also meets more than one criteria mentioned above in terms of music that was released through Marcan Entertainment. (1-3, 5, 7, 10, 11 for these criteria, it is absolutely applicable in Asia (Korea, Japan, & Southeast Asian countries)

In conclusion, your mention of “cover in-depth” about a company through independent sources omits other reliable source as stated by Notability policy.

It clearly states that “Editors evaluating notability should consider not only any sources currently named in an article, but also the possibility of notability-indicating sources that are not currently named in the article. Notability requires only the existence of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate citation. Wikipedia articles are not a final draft, and an article's subject can be notable if such sources exist, even if they have not been named yet.”

I believe above statement from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability explains other sources such as published materials (All other forms of media including CD imprints) should be considered as reference for notability even though they’re not cited immediately since Wikipedia articles are not final draft but on-going public article.

I hope I was able to justify Marcan's notability according to the guidelines of notability provided by Wikipedia. Thanks again for your input and I'll look forward to your favorable and thorough response in accordance with notability guidelines I've mentioned above. Freefive (talk) 17:22, 7 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi again Freefive (talk). Thank you once again for your thoughtful response. That said, Marcan isn't a musician or composition.  You yourself described it as "music production, publishing and management company" in the article.  I don't believe you've established notability -- see WP:CORP.  However, You've made significant improvements to the article, and you should resubmit it -- I've certainly made mistakes in assessing notability previously.  Another reviewer might interpret the guidelines differently, and you'll have the favorable result you're looking for.   Happy editing, and thanks again for your efforts!  Julie

Dear Ms. Farman,

I appreciate your encouraging feedback. Please forgive me if I sound like as if I'm trying to step on your toes for this. But even in WP:CORP, it clearly states, "This page is to help determine whether an organization (commercial or otherwise), or any of its products and services, is a valid subject for a separate Wikipedia article dedicated solely to that organization or product. The scope of this guideline covers all groups of people organized together for a purpose, although people gathered for more specific purposes may be governed by more specific guidelines. For example, people gathered together for the purpose of making music are covered by WP:MUSIC.

According to this rule, it even states that the company (that has formed by people who gathered together for the purpose of making the music) is specifically covered by WP:MUSIC. Marcan Entertainment's article never deviated from the fact that company is music production and publishing company. In this case, I'm not sure what kind of impression you got from Marcan Entertainment's article other than that company is set up by music producers that publishes K-Pop music worldwide. So in retrospect, this article should have reviewed in accordance with correct notability criteria as mentioned in WP:CORP WP:NMUSIC.

I will resubmit this article as it fits all criteria that is mentioned by Wikipedia WP:CORP WP:NMUSIC. Thank you again for your review and precious time. It was quite a learning experience.

Freefive (talk) 18:40, 7 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Freefive (talk): Let's agree to disagree.  No need to continue leaving me messages -- my assessment won't change unless you're able to add references that establish the company's notability. Your article will be reviewed by someone else, and, as noted above, he/she may feel differently. Thanks.    JSFarman (talk) 19:03, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Patrice M. Regnier page, Edits
Hello! Thank you for your suggestions about the Patrice M. Regnier page. This is my first Wikipedia submission, so I appreciate the feedback. I've made the edits that you suggested and am going to re-submit. If you could look it over, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samanthacarmean (talk • contribs) 23:01, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Samantha! Samanthacarmean Apologies for the delay. I'm sorry to say -- as you know I think a page on Patrice M. Regnier would be a great addition to Wikipedia - but sources are still lacking.  Can you find references that cover her life/career more extensively? Thanks, Julie JSFarman (talk) 20:48, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Julie, I have found a few print sources that are not online - how would you suggest citing these? The majority of her work occurred in the pre-internet world. I apologize for all the questions, thanks so much for your help. - Samantha — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samanthacarmean (talk • contribs) 22:04, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hey Samanthacarmean (talk! Glad you found more sources - !   The basics for citing from publications online aren't too much different than the usual:
 * Newspaper articles[edit]
 * Citations for newspaper articles typically include:


 * byline (author's name), if any
 * title of the article within quotation marks
 * name of the newspaper in italics
 * city of publication (if not included in name of newspaper), in parentheses
 * date of publication (the "cite news" template places the date after the byline if there is one)
 * page number(s) are optional


 * No need to apologize - happy to answer questions if I can - and psyched that the article is getting closer to publication!  Cheers - Julie JSFarman (talk) 00:03, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Possibly unfree files
Some of your uploads may be unfree. See Possibly unfree files/2013 November 15. --Stefan2 (talk) 22:29, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Stefan2 (talk)- I have just resent the permission to permissions-en@wikipedia.org.JSFarman (talk) 22:34, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Articles_for_creation/Plumbee
Hi there JSFarman,

Thank you very much for your constructive comments on my first wikipedia submission. I have added additional citations on the points you made, as described below:

2 is about the coalition - I have added a link to the official membership page for the iSGA showing Plumbee's membership as well as the original link to the information on the coalition.

4 is a press release - I can't find a way to link direct to that game and the official website doesn't seem to have an informational page on individual games. I am happy to remove this information until a better citation is available if that is preferred?

5 confirms only that the company won an award - I have added a second link to the shortlist of nominees which shows that Plumbee was indeed nominated for four awards before winning one of the four nominations.

Is there anything else I should do before re-submitting?

Again, thank you for your guidelines, helps me to understand the process a lot more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grepus (talk • contribs) 09:58, 19 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Grepus (talk). I'm amazed that this is your first submission - incredible job with the formatting and tone.


 * The problem with the submission, though, remains that the references need to be more significant. There should be in-depth coverage of Plumbee -- articles that are specifically about the company.  While it's cool that they're a member of the coalition -- and cool that Plumbee has won awards --  those citations don't provide enough coverage to establish notability.  Check WP:Notability for the specifics.  If you can find more coverage of the company, resubmit -- otherwise it might just be WP:Too soon.  Best regards! Julie JSFarman (talk) 19:57, 19 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Julie,


 * Thanks for the compliments and the advice. I've been tracking news on Plumbee via Google Alerts and there is finally a news piece on Yahoo Finance regarding some investment they just received. I have also edited the article in order to fix some of the other issues you mentioned. Once I've finished, should I just resubmit within Articles for Creation or simply submit the page at /plumbee ?


 * Thanks again

Grepus (talk) 13:22, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Grepus (talk) and sorry for the delay. I only just saw your message. You should resubmit the article through AfC -- I think it still needs some work, but another reviewer might feel differently. Happy new year! Julie JSFarman (talk) 16:02, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Article for Creation/Appthority
Hi, JS,

I understood why my first submission was declined. What helped the most was spending about 2 hours reading the interactions between authors & editors on the Help Desk. To make certain that the second submission improved on the standards required, I searched Wikipedia for a company of similar size, offering similar services, and in the same mobile security industry. I then “matched” its entries, i.e., types of statements, types of sources, etc.

Basically, I used Veracode as a template for writing an acceptable article, which is the article you recently reviewed & declined. Can you also help me understand why the Appthority article fails to meet Wiki’s standard, while it closely matches the tone & notability of the article judged acceptable for a similar company.

Thanks, JS,

Ross IASGAIR2014

Oh, and I’ve been using the 3 links below… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JSFarman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracode

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Appthority — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.213.69.110 (talk) 20:10, 19 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Ross (talk). The tone is good, but you haven't established notability.  You need to add references - citations that are independent, reliable, and non-trivial.  (Veracode has listed 19 sources.)  Check out WP:Notability.  Hope that helps!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 20:41, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Julie,

Yes, now is 121913, and I do see that I no longer exist, so I hope this reaches you. Several other methods I've used to respond to your ~121613 message seem to have placed me into a "loop" that never allows me to "Send" you a response. So, if you do receive this message, would it be okay for me to send you the original submission? Because the original submission did include Sources [about 20, which were all rejected]. I'm ok if you also reject all of them, but I think I'll be more likely to resubmit a more suitable text if I understand what part of the original article meets Wikipedia standards - and what Statements or Sources fail to do that. Basically, will you judge why the original submission - with Sources - was rejected? Thanks, Julie...Ross...or FromTighCalan (talk) 01:52, 20 December 2013 (UTC).

Article Creation / Submission: Appthority, A Company
Oops, my cat "Pup" just landed on the keyboard again, and he's done what I have no idea of how to undo. So there's lots of space between this text & my original response, below. Hope that's created no problems!

Thanks, Julie, this helps a lot. I just need to look at my first declined submission to see how many resources I used in it. I do remember that most were rejected as being "sources within the industry," and therefore lacking the standard of using second-source material. My memory also recalls that many of the Veracode sources are in the same category as those rejecyed in my original submission. But I'm sometimes wrong regarding memory, so I'll be back in touch once I know what I remember is correct. Or not.

Thanks, again, Julie, Ross — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CD54:56E0:F830:7202:16:97CE (talk) 02:53, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello again 2602:306:CD54:56E0:F830:7202:16:97CE (talk) Ross - ! Glad I could help.  Not sure why I reference would be rejected for being "sources within the industry" - trade publications, etc, are considered independent/reliable.  Maybe it was because the sources were papers/articles were published in a journal/publication related to Appthority?  (There are so many areas that don't get covered by the mainstream media -- without trade journals a lot of worthy people/companies etc. wouldn't be able to establish notability.)  Look forward to seeing the revisions, and say hello to Pup.  (I have dogs.  Thankfully they stay away from my PC.)  Julie JSFarman (talk) 00:07, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi, JSF,

I understood why my first Appthority submission was declined. What most helped to understand submission guidelines was spending 2+ hours monitoring the interactions between authors & editors on the Help Desk.

After that session, and to make certain that the second submission improved on the standards required, I searched Wikipedia for a company of similar size, offering similar services, and in the same mobile security industry.

Basically, I used Veracode as a template for writing an acceptable article. I then “matched” its entries, i.e., types of statements, types of sources, etc. My second submission, based on this approach of matching a similar entry, and already accepted entry, is the article you recently reviewed & declined.

Can you now help me understand why the Appthority article fails to meet Wiki’s standard, while it closely matches the tone & notability of the article already judged acceptable for a similar company.

Oh, and the first Appthority article submitted, but initially rejected, also listed numerous [20] sources. However, these sources themselves were among the reasons for rejection, because they failed to meet the third-party requirement, were industry-related reporting, were videos and/or interviews, etc.

So, I remain confused as to what is acceptable as an article, given the following examples of the 19 sources [listed below] that validate the Veracode entry…and which closely resemble the Appthority sources considered to be unacceptable.

16 of 19 VERACODE RESOURCES THAT FAIL TO MEET WIKIPEDIA STANDARDS

Sources 1, 5, 6, 7 & 18 are “industry publications” Sources 2, 15 & 19 go to pages that read: “Unable to find/open this file ” Source 3 goes to: “Page not found ” Sources 4, 9, 10 & 11 go to: “Veracode website” Sources 8 is a a WSJ article and, therefore, probably noteworthy Sources 12 is an interview with a Veracode officer Sources 13 & 14 − as published texts − easily meet Wiki standards Sources 16 is a company-produced PDF Sources 17 is a video My understanding of Wikipedia’s standards is that I would need to provide more than 3 of 19 Resources for establishing the notability of my subject, and its resulting acceptance on Wikipedia.

I’m hoping that you can understand my current confusion. Thanks, JSF Ross

Oh, and I’ve been using the 3 links below… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JSFarman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracode

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Appthority


 * Hi, I tried to leave a message on the User page associated with the article, but it no longer exists, so I left it on what I hope is your reconstructed talk page.


 * Take a look at the article as it now stands. I don't see any references at all, and the formatting makes it difficult to read.  Re: Veracode, please see OSE.    Thanks, Ross.  Julie JSFarman (talk) 15:13, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
I addressed your concerns on the talk page. Thanks for your comments! Chihciboy (talk) 01:11, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

December 2013 - January 2014 AfC Backlog Elimination Drive
I noticed that you have signed up for the drive. Please note that the AFCBuddy script does not appear to be functioning at this time. Therefore, user Backlog Elimination Drive log pages will need to be manually updated. Northamerica1000(talk) 04:51, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Articles For Creation/Dynasty (Hip Hop Artist)
Hi JS,

Thank you for the feedback on the article. I understood your notes, made the changes, and resubmitted. I am hoping that it will now meet the guidelines as everything else seemed to be okay. Would you mind taking a look at it when you have a moment?

Thank you again for your time. Dreampusher (talk) 14:14, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Good morning (or afternoon, or evening) Dreampusher (talk) - It's definitely better but it still needs some editing. I'll do what I can when I have some time, but in the interim, can you fix the formatting on the references?  I did The Tampa Bay paper so you can see what it should look like.  (Ref #4.)  Just use the pull down menu in the tool bar and select "cite web" - a template will appear - fill in the required info.  (Last name of writer, first name, title of article, URL, date the article ran, name of publication, date you accessed it.)  Also, punctuation goes before refs - it's an easy fix since you'll already be reinserting the cites.  Thanks!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 15:04, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Julie,

I appreciate the prompt reply and the example of how to properly format the citations. I went ahead and corrected all of them.

Thanks for any assistance that you can offer in getting this article up to par!

Dreampusher (talk) 21:42, 3 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi again Dreampusher (talk) - and thanks for the thanks AND for fixing the cites! I did a copy edit - added an infobox, another ref, and moved BET to the top of the article. But when I did a search, more articles on Dynasty appeared.  Can you give it one more shot and see if you can pump the entry up a bit?  She's cool - seems like there may be more to the story! Thanks!  Julie

That's awesome of you. Thank you.

I have been searching for more articles on her and trying to decide what more I should add. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. In the meantime, I will do a bit more research and see what I can do to contribute a little more. It's looking really good!

Thank you again.

Dreampusher (talk) 15:50, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Hey Julie! I can see why you got into this, it is pretty exciting building this thing. I may try my hand at another article in another time. You really learn a lot when you go digging!

I was able to find some more information and added a career highlights section and a personal life section. Please take a look when you have a moment.

Dreampusher (talk) 17:52, 5 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Hiya Dreampusher (talk) - TOTALLY ADDICTIVE! I hope you do contribute more!


 * Notes below:


 * In 2009, after opening for Krs-One, she was pulled back on to the stage by the world-renowned artist (WORLD RENOWNED ISN'T APPROPRIATE) to perform with him. When she was done, KRS proudly proclaimed (PROUDLY SHOULD GO - "STATED" WOULD PROBABLY BE A BETTER CHOICE BUT THAT'S JUST MY OPINION).  "THIS is a real emcee."[12] In 2010, she was once again called out on stage to perform with a major headlining ("MAJOR" NEEDS TO GO.)  act. This time it was Smif-n-Wessun of Duck Down Music Inc. during their 15th Anniversary Tour. [13] She went on to do three more stops with them on this tour.


 * Dynasty has been featured on hip hop culture and music websites including 2DopeBoyz.com,[14] BET.com,[1] HipHopDX.com,[15] and Centric. [16]


 * Personal life[edit]


 * While Dynasty tends to address a wide variety of topics in her music, (YOU NEED TO REFERENCE THIS THROUGH RELIABLE INDEPENDENT SOURCE) one of her main causes is developing and mentoring youth.[17] She frequently mentions this in interviews, encouraging young people, and adults alike, to discover and hold on to their dreams. (REFERENCE THE FREQUENT MENTIONS.)  She says "figure out what your dream is, chart your course and work on it every day. One more thing, expect no one to be as passionate about your dream as you." [18] She frequently visits a variety of youth programs and for the last two years, (WHAT ARE THE YOUTH PROGRAMS SHE FREQUENTLY VISITS?  DOCUMENT THEM.)  She has volunteered as a part of The Great American Teach In


 * Just watch the tone - remember encyclopedic, neutral. Great job though - write on!  Julie

Hey Julie!

Thanks for the feedback. I think I've got it! Check it out. :)

Thank you.

Dreampusher (talk) 20:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Your submission at AfC Julie Chaiken was accepted
 Julie Chaiken, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article. You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. . Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! Laun chba  ller  07:16, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk.
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

Julie Chaiken
Sorry about that - I operate a lot of tabs, and the one on Julie Chaiken got a bit lost. I've accepted it.-- Laun  chba  ller  07:21, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
 * You are a superstar, Laun  chba  ller  ! Thank you! Julie

Knowmad Adventures
Hi there, it has come to my attention that you declined the submission of the Knowmad Adventures wiki page. I am just looking for a little direction to make the correct edits and move forward with this article. Thanks so much! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1:9C80:426:5470:EAE9:82D4:E11B (talk) 06:36, 5 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi 2601:1:9C80:426:5470:EAE9:82D4:E11B (talk)- Can you send me a link to the Knowmad Adventures submission? I can't seem to find it.  Thanks!  Julie

Hi Julie. Of course: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Knowmad_Advnetures. As you can see this link says Knowmad-Advnetures at the end, which is a typo and was changed, but I think for now this is still the link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.138.65.132 (talk) 20:35, 6 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello again. When I declined the article, I did it on the basis of the references; I didn't dig into the content too much.  That said, getting the article to the point where it'll work for Wikipedia will require more than referencing.
 * As for references, they need to be independent of the subject of the article, and non-trivial. Two of the five references you've used are from Knowmad; I couldn't find a mention of Knowmad via the "Sustainable Travel" link, and the remaining two references don't provide in-depth coverage.  (They can be used to confirm that the company was in Frommer's and recognized by T&L.)  So, essentially, the entire article needs to be referenced.  Every statement of fact about the company and the programs need to be confirmed via a reliable, independent source.
 * There's also an issue with tone. It needs to be neutral, and the content must be encyclopedic.   For example, Knowmad Adventures is a travel consultancy and trip operator that focuses on active, authentic, and sustainable travel to South America. They offer private and custom trips to some of the most sought after destinations in the Southern Hemisphere...' "active" "authentic" and "sought-after" aren't neutral terms.  If the company offers sustainable travel, you need to prove it through an independent source.   I could go through the entire article and come up with similar examples, but I'm sure you get the idea.  My advice is to find the sources first, and write the article based on what you can substantiate.
 * Finally, the article reads lik advertising in some place - please read WP:NPOV in addition to WP:CORP, and WP:V. Also - if you happen to work for or be associated with Knowmad, check out WP:COI and proceed accordingly.
 * Happy to answer further questions when you get through the essential fixes! Thanks and good luck.  Julie

Hi, JSF,

I understood why my first Appthority submission was declined. What most helped to understand submission guidelines was spending 2+ hours monitoring the interactions between authors & editors on the Help Desk.

After that session, and to make certain that the second submission improved on the standards required, I searched Wikipedia for a company of similar size, offering similar services, and in the same mobile security industry.

Basically, I used Veracode as a template for writing an acceptable article. I then “matched” its entries, i.e., types of statements, types of sources, etc. My second submission, based on this approach of matching a similar entry, and already accepted entry, is the article you recently reviewed & declined.

Can you now help me understand why the Appthority article fails to meet Wiki’s standard, while it closely matches the tone & notability of the article already judged acceptable for a similar company.

Oh, and the first Appthority article submitted, but initially rejected, also listed numerous [20] sources. However, these sources themselves were among the reasons for rejection, because they failed to meet the third-party requirement, were industry-related reporting, were videos and/or interviews, etc.

So, I remain confused as to what is acceptable as an article, given the following examples of the 19 sources [listed below] that validate the Veracode entry…and which closely resemble the Appthority sources considered to be unacceptable.

16 of 19 VERACODE RESOURCES THAT FAIL TO MEET WIKIPEDIA STANDARDS

Sources 1, 5, 6, 7 & 18 are “industry publications” Sources 2, 15 & 19 go to pages that read: “Unable to find/open this file ” Source 3 goes to: “Page not found ” Sources 4, 9, 10 & 11 go to: “Veracode website” Sources 8 is a a WSJ article and, therefore, probably noteworthy Sources 12 is an interview with a Veracode officer Sources 13 & 14 − as published texts − easily meet Wiki standards Sources 16 is a company-produced PDF Sources 17 is a video My understanding of Wikipedia’s standards is that I would need to provide more than 3 of 19 Resources for establishing the notability of my subject, and its resulting acceptance on Wikipedia.

I’m hoping that you can understand my current confusion. Thanks, JSF Ross

Oh, and I’ve been using the 3 links below… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JSFarman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracode

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Appthority

Thomas Concrete Group
Hi. I got your message with comments about the references. Thank you. Just to make sure that I understand correctly. Are the websites of the trade media and University considered as independent? All the references to articles I have added to the pages shall strengthen the statemnt about Reasearch and Development within Thomas Concrete Group. I am not sure which other sources to look for if magazines and university are not independent. TCG Thank you for your help. Gorzowianka (talk) 12:46, 16 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello Gorzowianka (talk). The references are solid, but it appears (as noted) that the references used are about the R&D that TCR does, and not the company itself.   You need to demonstrate that the company is notable.   Also, the following (bolded) should be supported by references:


 * Thomas Concrete Group is an international and independent, Swedish, family-owned group producing and distributing ready-mixed concrete to commercial and private customers. The company has a long history of focusing on research and development [1] (Central Laboratory) and materials expertise [2].
 * In 1954 Martin Thomas founded AB Färdig Betong and the first concrete factory was built in Karlstad, in Sweden. Over the years the company has developed into an international group named Thomas Concrete Group, but is still owned by the Swedish family Thomas.


 * Also - you should reference locations, key people, and some of the facts in the infobox. (Since Wikipedia is frequently used as a source of information, the information needs to be verifiable.  For example, if you state revenue, you need to support it.)


 * Given that the references are mainly in Swedish, I may have missed something. If that's the case, please resubmit, and add a comment looking for help from a reviewer familiar with/fluent in Swedish.  (Please add a page number for the magazine used as a reference - #2.)


 * Hope that's helpful. Thanks for getting in touch.  Julie JSFarman (talk) 14:53, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Quantasy
Hi JSFarman. Thank you for your edits and comments to my submission for Quantasy. Per your original notes I had updated the entry to include more sources to verify the details and notability of the subject, but I was hoping you could provide a bit more clarification on your recent denial and comments that the post reads too much like an advertisement. Each of the details I have submitted are supported directly by sources so if it is a matter of simply rewording certain parts it would be very helpful to know which parts in particular are of issue. You also note specifically that there is very little content that doesn't serve to promote the company, but I am a bit confused as I had created this submission based on accepted pages for companies of a similar nature and every detail I have included is something I pulled from sources about the specific work of the company. Again, any details you can provide about specific content that is the issue and needs to be changed would be very helpful and greatly appreciated. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.43.222.150 (talk) 18:10, 19 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello 100.43.222.150 (talk).  I get what you're saying, and another reviewer might feel differently, but I have a hard time with the article because it seems like the purpose of it is only to promote the company.  Another reviewer might be fine with it, so feel free to resubmit the article, but read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Notes are below.


 * Quantasy is an American creative brand services agency headquartered in Culver City, California.


 * Founded in 2011 by Will Campbell and officially launched on September 24, 2012,[1] Quantasy creates campaigns that occur at the ::intersection of advertising, entertainment, technology, and culture[2]. This may be from a published source, but the language is lifted directly from the Quantasy site, marketing materials, and press releases. The company’s expertise In this context, expertise isn't a neutral word lies in content development, social media, UX & Design, ::Branded Content and Strategy, Analytics, and new technologies.


 * Awards and recognition works, but the client list ("includes Fortune 500 companies" ) notable clients, and notable campaigns (to me) serves only to promote the company.


 * Quantasy’s list of clients includes Fortune 500 companies such as American Honda, Wells Fargo, Farmers Insurance, and Google[3].


 * As part of their work for American Honda, Quantasy was awarded the 2012 OMMA Award for the best “Home Page Takeover” for its ::Honda CRV Moments campaign.
 * Notable Clients:[4] • American Honda • Wells Fargo • Farmers Insurance • Google • Magic Johnson Enterprises
 * Awards/Recognitions: • 2012 OMMA Award – Honda CRV Moments (Home Page Takeover) • 2012 Summit Emerging Media Award - Honda CRV ::Moments
 * Notable Campaigns:
 * Quantasy is best known for its campaigns done for American Honda and Magic Johnson Enterprises, including the Honda Civic "Best ::Yourself" Campaign featuring Nick Cannon[5], and the Magic Johnson Bridgescape campagin.[6]


 * Again, feel free to resubmit. Thanks!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 18:44, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Thomas Concrete Grouop
Hi Julie. Me again. I have put more references into the article and resubmited it. But there are few things that I would like to clarify. It is difficult to 'reference' that TCG is a international and independent, family owned company. TCG is operating on 5 markets, so it makes it international by definition... Independent and famlily-owned - two daughters and one son of martin Thomas who had founded the company, own it today. The company is independent from suppliers or customers (what is very common practice on the market that concrete companies are owned either by customers or suppliers). Not TCG. When it comes to the articles about the concrete placed in the references - the goal was to strengthen the statement that TCG is doing a lot within Research and Development, researching and publishing the resuslts. Hope that helps and that the article can be accepted now. All best before the holiday time. Gorzowianka (talk) 12:05, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Good morning and happy holidays to you too, Gorzowianka (talk)! :It looks like the article is better referenced, but I'm not comfortable reviewing it given that most of the :references are in Swedish and relying on Google translate isn't the best idea.  I'll post a note on the reviewer :talk page and see if there's someone there who can help.  Thanks!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 16:58, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi again, Gorzowianka (talk). I asked a Swedish-reading editor on the reviewer help page for his/her input, and he/she thought that the company's notability hadn't been established. You can see the conversation in the link above. I see that you've resubmitted the article - another reviewer might feel differently...All the best to you! Julie JSFarman (talk) 16:08, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

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Excellent Events & Entertainment (Pvt.) Ltd.
Thanks for that, I was working on that article it almost complete, the previous one you just saw, was mistakenly saved. FU 007  14:36, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that, FU  007  .  I acted way too quickly. Happy editing! JSFarman (talk) 06:55, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Dr. Yaba Blay
Hi can you please explain what kind of references I need to add to her page? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TaranaB (talk • contribs) 06:38, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi TaranaB (talk • contribs)- You haven't used any references at all. Particularly with the bio of a living person (BLP), you need to be able to provide references that can be used to verify the assertions of the article.  For example, "Dr. Blay received her BA in Psychology (Cum Laude) from Salisbury State University, M.Ed. in Counseling Psychology from the University of New Orleans, and M.A. and Ph.D. in African American Studies from Temple University with a Graduate Certificate in Women’s Studies. She is currently co-Director and Assistant Teaching Professor of Africana Studies at Drexel University. Dr. Blay is also the publisher and editor-in-chief of BLACKprint Press" should be referenced to show that she has the degrees, that she teaches at Drexel, that she is the publisher and editor in chief of BLACKprint Press," etc.  See WP:VERIFY and WP:BLP.  I did a quick search -- you should be able to find plenty of sources -- you just need to add them.  (This article is just one that can be a powerful source: http://articles.philly.com/2013-11-26/entertainment/44453285_1_new-book-skin-soledad-o-brien.)  Your article has the potential to be strong -- happy editing! JSFarman (talk) 06:53, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh, great! Thank you. I am working on the references now and after I added and saved the first one I got this message:

There are ref tags on this page, but the references will not show without a REFLIST template (see the help page).

Can you please advise? I created a References column and started to list the references there but I'm not sure about stylization or even if this is what is required. Is that the correct direction? I appreciate your help and quick response.


 * Hey again TaranaB (talk -- I changed the markup so the references are showing -- you just need to use curly brackets around the word "reflist." It's a magic word!  The refs will show up properly formatted (as long as you use the cite web template or input the code correctly.  JSFarman (talk) 16:30, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Recent Article Rejected
Hi JSFarman, thank you so much for editing my article. I am having a hard time understanding how all this works, so I apologize in advanced. The article I wrote did not use any sources created by the company I wrote about, rather they were articles about the company. Am I understanding this part incorrectly? Thank you for your time, I really appreciate it, I want to make sure the next article I release has the correct siting. Have a great day!

Lboureston (talk) 08:41, 7 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Heya, Lboureston (talk).  No apology necessary!  I'm happy to help.


 * The subject of the article needs to be notable, as defined by Wikipedia policy: WP:N.  You need multiple sources to establish notability, and the only valid reference used is from the Daily Camera.  The others are hyperlocal, based on marketing materials, interviews (not considered independent) or slight.  (You need in-depth editorial coverage of Max Muscle.)   I did a Google search in the hope that I could help you more, but I didn't find much of anything.  If you find more references, add them in, and resubmit!   If you have any questions, let me know, and happy editing!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 20:07, 10 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you so so much, JSFarman (talk). I really appreciate your help, as you can see I have been working on this for a while!


 * The subject I am trying to write about does not have a lot of articles about them online. I did find a few others I would describe as notable and have attempted to resubmit. If you get a chance would you glance over it and tell me if I am heading in the right direction?? Thank you so much, you time and help is much appreciates!Linds Lboureston (talk) 08:05, 21 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Sorry Lboureston (talk) - I missed your message and am only just seeing it now. Apologies! JSFarman (talk) 03:00, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Ben Sutton entry help
Hi JSFarman. Please excuse my 'infant user' status on Wikipedia. I have taken over the Mr. Sutton's posting in my office and need your help/direction in how to move forward in reaching an agreeable submission to get Mr. Sutton posted. Can you please help me with this? I believe that there was an issue with company information being too 'heavy' in his entry and that has been noticeably reduced, so we are stuck on how to move forward without your direction. Thank you in advance, and please feel free to spell things out as I am certainly still trying to get the hang of this. Collegiate sports follower (talk) 19:35, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello Collegiate sports follower (talk)! Welcome!  I'd be happy to help, but I need to point out that you may have a conflict of interest.   Are you affiliated with Ben Sutton?  If so, you should make sure you're perfectly well versed in WP: COI. Also - Wikipedia policy is that accounts are used by one person, and it appears that the Collegiate Sports follower account may be shared.  Please see WP:NOSHARING.   You can register a new account that's entirely your own, and, if you do have a COI, you can declare it on your user page and when you resubmit the Ben Sutton article at AFC.  (When it gets published, there's a "connected contributor" template you can use to let readers know about your affiliation on the article's talk page.)
 * Now that that's out of the way, I'd love to give you some guidance on the article. As I think I said in a previous decline, it's very likely that Ben Sutton us notable, and, as such, Wikipedia should have an article about him! But you've (or one of the CSF users) have removed the messages (which note the URLs) from the talk page.  It's hard for me to find the submission without the URL.  Do you know it? Hit me back.  Thanks!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 19:55, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Good work on Judith Newman
Thanks for all your work on Judith Newman. Now it reads like an encyclopedia article rather than a press release. Don't apologize for all the edits; you systematically found references. I wish more articles I reviewed would get followed up on and fixed. StarryGrandma (talk) 06:15, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, StarryGrandma (talk), I appreciate it! I felt like we Wikipedians needed to rally! (In case you didn't see it -- Wikipedia, What Does Judith Newman Have to Do to Get A Page? - I love that the Wiki article will already exist when the print edition of this story runs tomorrow!) Julie
 * Please allow me to add my own +1 to what said above.  Good job.  Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 08:09, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk), Thanks so much!  And - as it should be - a bunch of editors have jumped in and made the article stronger than it was.  NYT hasn't run an update yet, but I'm sure they will soon - psyched to see what it will say. JSFarman (talk) 15:22, 9 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your message on my page. Moncrief did the hard work.  I just added some odds and ends.  But it's obvious that Newman is notable, so I was happy to contribute.  BTW, I thought that Newman's article in the NYT was poorly researched, particularly with regard to her statements about paid editors - she obviously did not talk to any really experienced editors here, or they could have explained to her why paid editing is a very bad idea.  And, I find it very annoying that journalists like Newman, who have some understanding of our editorial process, and who use Wikipedia constantly, think it's fun to criticize us so broadly, when we get so much right and are putting together one of the greatest free resources in the world.  I guess it wouldn't be much fun to write an article saying "Wikipedia is really great, and if you find a mistake, you can point it out, giving a citation to a reliable source, and let editors here fix it."  -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:06, 10 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Ssilvers (talk) Major props to you! You had strong feelings about Judith's article, but put everything aside and, with a commitment to neutrality, made the article better.  (There's a follow-up running in the NYT soon, and I have no doubt that Judith's been educated about how incredible Wikipedia editors can be.) JSFarman (talk) 00:29, 11 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh, good. Well, let's see what it says.  I still think that Newman ought to read WP:COI regarding paid editing, or even take a look at the wonderful book: Wikipedia – The Missing Manual. -- Ssilvers (talk) 01:15, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Greg Kurstin
Hey JSFarman, I've just added the songs you requested on the Greg Kurstin production discography page. You can check it out now. Happy New Year! Chihciboy (talk) 05:38, 11 January 2014 (UTC)


 * You rule, Chihciboy (talk)! Thank you so much.  Someday I'll learn how to mark up fancy charts, I promise.  Happy New Year to you too - hope it's a great one.  Julie JSFarman (talk) 15:18, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

The Douglas Brothers
Hi Julie, Thanks for your comments on The Douglas Brothers page - good to hear that you are aware of their work. In relation to your comments on sources: we have hard copy press articles that can act as reference material but none of the articles are online (before that time) apart from on The Douglas Brothers website. Is it acceptable to quote print rather than web sources? And do press articles count as 'reliable' enough? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anstutim (talk • contribs) 15:32, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Anstutim (talk),
 * Totally acceptable! See WP:CITE for details and instructions.  I'm not sure what you mean by "press articles," but if you're referring to press releases, they don't work -- references need to be from independent sources.  Cool to see an article on the Douglas Brothers being written -- hit me back when you've added the necessary cites.  Thanks!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 17:48, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Julie - Have just updated the sources on The Douglas Brothers page. Would be great if we could get your feedback on this asap. Many thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anstutim (talk • contribs) 14:04, 30 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Anstutim (talk • contribs), Much better! I added some more references and did some reformatting and published the page. It could still use work, though - there's more to the story.  As I'm sure you know.  Smiley face. Thanks for your contribution! Julie JSFarman (talk) 22:47, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Elyar Fox submission
I saw you reviewed the article submitted about Elyar Fox, and wondered if you'd kindly look again now that it has been significantly updated. I couldn't find a Wiki entry, so I decided to write one, only to find when I tried to submit that one had already been submitted and rejected. As you noted at the time, it wasn't properly sourced, and he hadn't even released his single yet. So I set about rewriting and sourcing the article, and hope it now meets the required standards for notability. As Elyar Fox is very much in the entertainment news now, an entry in Wikipedia would be very timely. Inpeacebase (talk) 16:52, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello Inpeacebase (talk) - Looks solid! One issue - you write that he changed his name to Elyar Fox - what did he change his name from?  Can you add the information or edit accordingly?  Hit me back - article is otherwise ready to go.  Thanks!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 18:18, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Julie. His original name is mentioned in the 'Early life' section - Elyar Afshari. Thanks for the speedy response! Frank Inpeacebase (talk) 18:51, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hey again Frank (talk). Ooops.  Sorry!  I made some changes and tried to move the article into the mainspace, but for some reason, it's not showing up.  (Possibly because of the deletion history?)  I'll play around with it a little more and do my best -- if I can't get it published I'll ask for help.  Julie JSFarman (talk) 21:11, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Elyar Fox
Hi JS Farman. I've moved this AFC draft to mainspace per your request. I haven't applied page protection at this time, since the accounts previously used to create the article in 2012 are no longer active - if you notice in future that the article's suffering from a high level of vandalism, let me know (or file a request at WP:RPP) and it can be appropriately locked then. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水


 * Hello,Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水, and thank you! Julie JSFarman (talk) 15:21, 21 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you both for sorting this out! Frank Inpeacebase (talk) 17:54, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

January 2014
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=592042034 your edit] to Robert Davi may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 ""s. If you have, don't worry: just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20&section=new my operator's talk page].
 * List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 16:55, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * orchestra, Davi recorded his first album at the famous Capitol Records Building in Hollywood where Frank Sinatra recorded on many occasions. {{cite web|last=Sterling|first=Ellen|title=No

Judith Newman
Please note the new discussion on the Talk page, and join in if you have an opinion. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:48, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello Ssilvers (talk! Are you referring to the section about Judith and her husband maintaining separate residences?  Julie JSFarman (talk) 23:01, 23 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:14, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Green Star Media
Hi JS, thanks for taking the time to review the Green Star Media submission, and for your constructive comments. I've re-read the guidelines on notability and believe these now have been met by the addition of a further two citations from an independent source (trade magazine and website InPublishing). The awards nominations citations are independent. In making my decision to create a Wikipedia entry for Green Star Media I reviewed competitors' entries, in particularly Imagine Publishing, and Rugby World. These appear to have swerved around the notability rules with no independent citations - should I challenge their inclusion? Thanks again. Andrew Griffiths, Managing Director, Green Star Media Ltd. (Rugbyboy2 (talk) 07:25, 25 January 2014 (UTC))


 * Hi (Andrew) (talk),
 * First, since you have a conflict of interest, please make sure to read and familiarize yourself with WP:COI.


 * General rule of thumb, for me, is that if the majority of the content in an article is from a press release ("The company is planning significant expansion and Trevor's timely appointment will strengthen the board to help us execute and deliver our growth strategy." "This is a really exciting opportunity. Green Star is outstanding at digital direct marketing and digital publishing and has built a successful stable of publications in football and rugby coaching. This expertise can be equally applied to many other sectors needing to convert from traditional publishing to embrace the new digital world") it's not an independent source.  (I'm a former publicist -- I wrote a lot of those quotes in my time.)  An overview of the company which includes the corporate website is also unlikely to be independent.  (The League Managers reference.)  The reference from the Specialist Media Show is valid, but it's not enough to establish notability.   I'm not saying that Green Star Media isn't notable, just that the references don't meet Wikipedia's criteria.  See: WP:N.
 * Can you find more references that are truly independent, and provide significant coverage of Green Star Media?
 * Re: Imagine Publishing and Rugby World, - I looked at their entries and tagged Imagine Media accordingly. Rugby World has valid references (and is likely to be notable regardless, since they've been around since 1960.  By "challenging their inclusion," I'm assuming you mean nominating them for deletion, and I believe both would survive the nomination.  Still, you should do as you see fit.
 * I hope I've been of some help, and I'd be happy to take a look at the article again. Thanks for getting in touch.  Julie JSFarman (talk) 16:37, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Clifford S. Pukel, MD
Dear Mr. Farman,

You recently reviewed the WIKI page I submiited and left the following comment. Comment: Additionally, there are no inline citations, and the references are largely authored by the subject of the article; they need to be independent in order to establish notability. JSFarman (talk) 00:13, 25 January 2014 (UTC.

Here is the link to my page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Clifford_S._Pukel,_M.D.

Thank-you for the assistance and I will be mindful of your time. When I referred to Dr Pukel as a scienctist, I cited the articles he wrote as a scientist and did the same with other areas. From your comment I gather this is unacceptable, but do not know of any other way to establish his work as a scientist who published Really need help on this one...once you help me with this, I will know how to work with the other areas.

Also I want to include a number of External links as suggested, are those to be on similiar topics?

Thanks in advance for your help! B — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bnatelle (talk • contribs) 01:19, 27 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello Bnatelle (talk • contribs,


 * While the inline citations/references are an issue, the tone is what first needs to be addressed. There's a lot of content that isn't strictly factual.  If you're writing about Dr. Pukel's beliefs, it needs to be clear that they're his beliefs - through both the language and through direct references.  It can't appear that the author of the article is drawing conclusions (which is WP:OR.  I've bolded the problematic content below, and noted if/when a direct quote is needed.  If you can rewrite the content according to WP guidelines, hit me back, and we can look at the referencing/sources from there.  Thanks, ad thanks for your work on the article!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 16:50, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Clifford S. Pukel, MD (November 15,1955) is a medical oncologist and hematologist who practices in Vancouver, Washington. He is a member of the medical staff at PeaceHealth Southwest Medical Center and the Southwest Medical Group Department of Hematology/Oncology. He writes and lectures on topics in medical oncology, and has a particular interest in the historical development of oncology [1] thought over the last century. His first book, Cancer and the Human Condition ISBN 978-0-615-35459-0 consists of 27 essays (filled with provocative and sometimes disturbing images) where he explores the psychological,[2] historical,[3] sociological[4] and religious aspects [5]of this dreadful disease. His next book, Cancer and Spirit, scheduled for publication in 2015, extends and further defines earlier observations made in Cancer and the Human Condition. In a career that now spans 40 years --- as a scientist,[6][7] [8]physician [9][10] lecturer(refs), and author:[11], Dr Pukel has a unique perspective on the future of medical oncology in which, he contends, in patients with advanced malignancies--- chemotherapy, radiation therapy and surgery--- will be largely replaced by cancer vaccines and cancer immunotherapy designed to stimulate the immune system to do what it is already doing (imperfectly controlling disease), by gentle, non-toxic, simple and cost effective methods. He predicts that over the next century, we will be able to perfect methods to vaccinate children to prevent common cancers, in a manner similar to the advances made over the last 60 years in vaccine development for preventing childhood diseases --- the great scourges of humanity for centuries. (Is this a direct quote?) Pukel beleives an immune stimulation cocktail [12] will eventually be created and perfected [13]. This immunologic construct will consist of various drugs and adjuvants which by themselves are weakly effective in treating cancer--- monoclonal antibodies to cancer associated antigens[14],vaccine constructs designed to mobilize immune cells including dendritic cells,[15] cytokines, interferons, chemokines, and other immune modifiers[16]. This combined modality treatment will replace current toxic and indiscriminate destructive approaches that have become the prevailing dogma of oncology practice in the 20th century. As a student and disciple of the brilliant Lloyd J. Old, MD, Founder of Modern Cancer Immunology [17] Dr. Pukel has incorporated many of the thoughts, ideas and theories that Dr. Old transmitted [18] to him over the course of their long friendship. In keeping the legacy and genius of Dr Lloyd Old [19] alive and relevant to future discoveries, Dr Pukel has created the Cancer Vaccine Cancer Immunotherapy Foundation where he is CEO, and is in the process of forming a pharmaceutical company designed to continue the great work of Dr Old and his colleagues. This company, the LJO Cancer Immunology Pharmaceutical Company[20] is expected to issue its first Prospectus in 2015. As seen in his book Cancer and the Human Condition, Dr Pukel unlike many other physicians and scientists, feels that there is absolutely no contradiction between a genuine belief in God, as the Creator and the King of the Universe and the scientific method. He incorporates many of these beliefs, in his writings, lectures and medical oncology practice. (Direct quote?)

Total Media
Hi there,

Many thanks for your review of my submission for Total Media. I am a little confused as to the rejection based on notability. Whilst there are a lot of awards (backed up by sources), there are also numerous profiles on several notable advertising and media regulatory bodies, including the IPA which is the largest advertising/media regulatory body in the UK. Also, the campaigns themselves have won industry awards, and the agency is recognized by a large number of industry bodies also as seen in the article. I would argue that the amount of industry recognition and awards won, coupled with the independent nature of the agency is what makes Total Media notable.

I do really appreciate the time you took to look through, but would ask you to reconsider. I looked at other media agency profiles on Wikipedia that have made through submissions, that have far fewer sources, and are similar in nature to the ones in my submission. I kept the sources all completely neutral and didn't link to any press releases and made a lot of effort with the research. I would ask you to reconsider. Failing that, could you be a bit more specific on 'coverage about total media'. Does that mean you do want some press articles (in large publications of course) to be mentioned? Bazsha (talk) 09:41, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks :)


 * Hi Bazsha (talk),
 * I spent some more time with the article, and, on reflection, I agree that the awards and affiliations indicate notability. I'd still be more comfortable with references that provide extensive editorial coverage, though, as the article might otherwise be perceived as existing largely to promote the company. That said, I'll defer to another reviewer -- can you resubmit the article?  Thanks, and thanks for your understanding.  Best wishes, Julie JSFarman (talk) 20:15, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Julie,

Thanks so much for having another look through and spending the time to check the sources. I do really appreciate it, and I fully support Wikipedia's need to remain as a proper source of info, rather than a business directory. I will resubmit and fingers crossed. Thanks again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bazsha (talk • contribs) 09:58, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Philip Lymbery page, edits
Hi Julie, thanks very much for your feedback on my article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Philip_Lymbery_(executive)#Career

I have deleted unverifiable material and located more independent sources, as you suggested. If you had time to check over the re-submitted article, I'd much appreciate it. Thank you! Wey1967 (talk) 16:31, 27 January 2014 (GMT)


 * Hello Wey1967 (talk) I added a couple of references and moved the article into the mainspace.   Thanks for making the changes, and for improving Wikipedia!  Happy editing!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 01:13, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Clifford S. Pukel, M.D.
January 28,2014

Have been working on zreas cited during the first submission. Thanks for the help with "Tone" and highlightening the areas which nbeed attention. Those problem areas/words have mostly been deleted and in a few cases, have cited with reputable sources ie NCBI etc.

Thanks again for your help and looking forward to continued work until this is something we can submitt with approval. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bnatelle (talk • contribs) 17:38, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Clifford S. Pukel, M.D.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Clifford_S._Pukel,_M.D.

Thank-you for the feedback and ways to correct the "tone" of the paper. Have either deleted the words/phrases in question or added credible sources.

Looking forward to continued work in order to make this acceptable.

Bnatelle (talk) 17:46, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Scott Huckabay music page, need help, please..
Hi, I need help on getting my page accepted. I look forward to your response shortly. Sincerely, Scott Huckabay Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Scott_Huckabay/sandbox — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scott Huckabay (talk • contribs) 21:41, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Scott Huckabay (talk), I'm in awe of your career and what you've been through - I haven't had a chance to listen to your  music but I will.   That said, it's very hard to write a Wikipedia article on yourself, and it's generally discouraged.  If you feel like you can be neutral, my suggestions would be to go back through the article and delete any content that isn't strictly factual and/or relevant to the bio.  The lead is "Scott George Huckabay (December 3, 1964 – present) is an American composer, acoustic electric guitarist, poet" - everything you write should support the lead.  Also - strip the article of hype, for example (where bolded) -  Scott created many innovative sounds on the guitar that helped relieve the pain from his injuries. In that same year, a Michael Hedges concert influenced Scott of his own unique guitar technique."  You're also short on references -- can you find articles that were written about you from independent, reliable sources?  Take a look at WP:MUSIC and look to establish notability based on that criteria.  Happy editing!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 20:33, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Av_LMKR
Bigqluso (talk) 03:14, 3 February 2014 (UTC)== Question regarding Wikipedia Submission == Hello and thank you JSFarman I have been declined based on content and writing submission. Recently Av was added to a Vlad Tv interview. http://www.vladtv.com/video/183545/exclusive-av-speaks-about-getting-shot-in-compton/183516/ .....I want to know if this content can be used as a credible reference? and if not how can I get this submission approved?

Thanks

DavidBigqluso (talk) 03:05, 3 February 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigqluso (talk • contribs) 03:02, 3 February 2014 (UTC) Bigqluso (talk) 03:13, 3 February 2014 (UTC)


 * HiDavid (talk), The link to the Vlad Tv interview is dead. But, in general, interviews aren't considered independent.


 * I think the best way for you to proceed is to scratch this version, and start fresh. Take a look at other articles, and check out the format.  The first sentence of your article should read:


 * Av NeShawn McCuien, known as Av LMKR, Av, or Compton Avis, is a rap artist, writer, and battle rapper.


 * The next section can be a bio, broken into appropriate sections -- early life and education, career, discography, honors and awards -- or chronologically, as if you've done in the draft.


 * He has a very compelling story, but you need to be able to express it factually, through simple, verifiable statements. For example, you could write something like "In 2005, AV participated in battle raps at the Pit, Project Blow, and in other contests in and around Los Angeles.  He was co-signed by Redman in (DATE) as a result of his skill."   You'd need to be able to cite sources for all of this information!


 * Take it bit by bit, keep your language neutral and specific, and rebuild the article!  I'll be glad to take a look at it again.  Thanks!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 22:50, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

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Tanisha Scott submission
Hi JSFarman,

I will make the changes you suggested, but I bolded Tanisha's highlight here in the copy of the Billboard 30 Under 30 article: Billboard

August 23, 2008

2008 30 UNDER 30

SECTION: FEATURES; HEADLINES

LENGTH: 4097 words Billboard's Power Players series highlights the achievements of individuals who drive the fields of music and entertainment forward with their artistic and business vision. As our writers and editors surveyed sources across numerous business sectors to identify rising young executives for this fourth annual 30 Under 30 report, a trend emerged. Increasingly, this list is shaped by execs making their mark in the realm of digital and mobile music that's transforming the business. And once again, the most promising aspect of this alphabetical list is this: These young men and women are but a sample of a talented generation taking the business forward. BRIAN AHERN Booking agent, William Morris Agency Under the guidance of William Morris Agency VP Marc Geiger, 29-year-old Brian Ahern moved up quickly from the mailroom to booking agent in 2005. A graduate of the University of Virginia, where he helped organize the college's first stadium concert with the Dave Matthews Band, Ahern has built a diverse roster at WMA that includes the Hives, Spoon, Colbie Caillat, Rev Theory, Warrant, Cinderella and Night Ranger. Ahern also learned about the nontraditional live business by managing MTV's videogame tour, Game Riot. "I try to be a little more strategic with my job so that I'm able to do things that are both music-based and nonmusic-based," Ahern says, "because touring doesn't necessarily have to be music." ELLIOT ARONOW Creative director/A&R, RCRD LBL Elliot Aronow, 27, leveraged work with the Fader, Spin, Nylon and Gnarls Barkley to achieve his current role. Through his consulting work with Gnarls, he met Downtown Records head Josh Deutsch. So when he and partner Peter Rojas decided to start RCRD LBL, a network of online record labels and music blogs, they did it as a joint venture with Downtown. Today, Aronow has signed four bands to RCRD LBL, hosts a popular podcast that showcases the best of the blogs and oversees the site's editorial content. PETER ASBILL Chief content officer, Amie Street Along with two fellow Brown University graduates, Peter Asbill started up Amie Street, an online platform for buying and selling music, where song prices, ranging from free to 98 cents, are determined by the volume of downloads. Asbill, 24, is Amie Street's chief content officer and says he wants the Amazon-supported service to benefit consumers and content providers alike. "We're in the peer-to-peer generation and the way a lot of kids look at it, they can get a [music] file anywhere," Asbill says. "We add more value to the experience. We make it more fun; we make it more interesting; we make it more personal." JAY BELIN Talent buyer, Mercury Lounge A native of tiny Clearfield, Pa., Jay Belin, 27, initially moved to New York to study law at New York University but quickly indulged his music passion by launching online magazine Loose Record and taking a job at digital music distributor the Orchard as a label liaison. While at the Orchard, Belin moonlit with the Bowery Presents. That led to his current "dream job" booking and managing New York's Mercury Lounge, a key venue for indie bands and emerging major-label talent alike. "There is nothing more rewarding," he says, "than seeing a band play Mercury one spring and have that same band sell out Bowery Ballroom, Webster Hall or even Terminal 5 the following year." ELEANOR BLATTEL Senior director of digital sales and marketing, Alternative Distribution Alliance Since Eleanor Blattel, 29, joined Alternative Distribution Alliance, the young executive has helped the company build the operational and production side of digital distribution. "She tackled everything digital," ADA president Nate Wolk says, "giving us a clear direction and strategy for business development, product development and account management. Previously, Blattel started new-media departments for London/Sire Records and Sanctuary Records. Her label experience allowed her, at ADA, to know "services and what types of communications a label would want and expect from their distributor and then go beyond that and make sure we have comprehensive account management," she says. "This way our labels can prosper from all the different accounts -- MPS [mobile service providers], DSP [digital service providers] video and social networking sites and the subscription models. And we can answer all their questions." MELISSA CARTER Director of sales, digital, Universal Music Group Distribution It was just a college job for Melissa Carter, selling Sprint phones at mall kiosks while she was at the University of South Florida. But that gig prompted a WEA executive, after scanning her résumé, to invite her for an interview and offer her a job. After two years at WEA, Carter, 29, joined Universal Music Group Distribution, where she is now the lead representative for such accounts as Verizon Wireless, MTV Networks, AOL, MediaNet, BET Mobile, Ericsson, eMusic and XM Satellite Radio (which recently merged with Sirius Satellite Radio). "Melissa has emerged as one of our most innovative and creative executives," UMGD VP of sales Laura Saez says. "Her knowledge of the digital retail landscape is matched by her uncanny ability to translate market trends into successful and impactive marketing and retail programs." Carter has increased overall revenue for Verizon by 15% and for MTV Networks by 80% last year. She also produced the first Verizon Music summit. KELLI CASHIOLA Marketing director, Warner Bros. Nashville A Dallas-native, 26-year-old Kelli Cashiola got her start in the music business as an intern at KPLX (the Wolf) Dallas. With recommendations from the radio station's PD and a marketing degree from the University of Oklahoma, Cashiola set her sighs on Nashville record companies and ultimately joined Warner Bros. Nashville in the promotion department. After a stop in new media, Cashiola put her degree to work inthe marketing deparmtnet where she works with such artists as Blake Shelton, Lori McKenna and newcomer Whitney Duncan. "As much gloom as there is out there, I still have a positive outlook," she says. "People are always going to consume music. We're just going to have to find new ways to reach them." SHARA EISENBERGER Associate director of music resources, EMI Music Publishing Shara Eisenberger, 26, started at EMI in New York as a college intern in 2001 and was hired in 2004 as an assistant in the synch licensing department. She has since focused on stage licensing and has become an expert "go to" person in the industry, senior VP of music services and licensing Nancy Weshkoff says. "She stands out because she can manage the labyrinth of rights and develop innovative solutions for producers and can propose new stage productions using music from our catalog." Her achievements include negotiating and maintaining "catalog musical" deals for "Jersey Boys," "Mamma Mia!" and "Xanadu." "It's a different set of rules [because] music publishers have traditionally not been as involved," Eisenberger says of her proactive approach. RORY FELTON CEO, the Militia Group When Rory Felton teamed with Chad Pearson to transform Pearson's Militia Group booking agency into a record label in 2000, Felton was still a freshman at the University of Southern California. The label's first release, punk band Rufio's "Perhaps, I Suppose . . .," sold more than 100,000 copies in its first year, and Felton knew he was on to something. Since then, the 26-year-old has signed more than 40 bands, including Copeland, Cartel, Juliette & the Licks and the Appleseed Cast. "I feel like we've had a real diverse roster of artists that I've worked with," Felton says. The common thread, he adds, is "artists that write great songs." AMY FOGLEMAN Brand manager, Creative Trust A native of Central Florida, Amy Fogleman, 28, has spent six years at Creative Trust, a Nashville-based management company whose roster includes Christian music artists Steven Curtis Chapman and Brandon Heath. A 2002 graduate of Nashville's Belmont University, Fogleman's previous experience includes a stint with Nettwerk Management in Los Angeles, which represented Dido, Coldplay and Sarah McLachlan. Creative Trust lured Fogleman back to Music City. "I made a tough decision, but I decided that Nashville was where God was calling me back to." For the last year and a half, Fogleman has been day-to-day manager of Brandon Heath, who won the 2008 Dove Award for best new artist. "Brandon continually uses his life to help other people, change their perspectives and just draw them into the heart of God," Fogleman says. "I am beyond blessed to be able to work with a guy like that." PEDRO GUZMAN A&R director, Universal Latino/Machete Music seemed a natural path for 26-year-old Pedro Guzmán, born to a modern dancer and a video director, who studied to be a bassist. But when Guzmán attended Berklee College of Music, he also signed on for an emphasis in music business that led him to his first job as an A&R coordinator for Sony/ATV Music Publishing. After signing writers like Tito "El Bambino," he caught Universal's eye. "He's the executive with most potential I have seen in years," Universal Latino president Walter Kolm says. "He's extremely talented, professional and has great knowledge and intuition." Guzmán has helped signed and develop multiple tropical acts like Lenny and Eddie Lover. But his creative supervision applies to all the label's releases in all genres. The challenge, he says, "is loving music as music but also as a product." MICHAEL GEWIRTZMAN President, Vinyl Artist Management An early start working with artists Josh Kelly and Joshua Radin whet Michael Gewirtzman's desire to form his own management company. Today, under Gewirtzman, 25, New York-based Vinyl Artist is building buzz and growing national and international distribution for rock act Long Since Forgotten, popster Jon Asher and singer/songwriter Sam Grow using practices that represent new-era industry teamwork at its finest. "I only work with artists who want to be extremely involved in their careers. We sit down, come up with a list of goals we want to accomplish together, combine our list of references and hit the pavement," Gewirtzman says. "I took a leap of faith forming this company, but there are so many artists out there who deserve recognition." BLUE HAMILTON Director of A&R, Warner/Chappell Music "The minute I saw her walk in the room, I felt like Madonna had dropped in. She had that kind of star power," Warner/Chappell Music director of A&R Blue Hamilton says of his first signing, chart-topper Katy Perry. Hamilton, 29, had been following the young star even before Perry's ill-fated deal with Columbia Records and ultimately introduced her to Capitol Records, for which Perry has recorded the smash No. 1 summer hit "I Kissed a Girl." Hamilton's path took him from an internship to an assistant post at Maverick Records and he maintained relationships with acts like Indie.Arie and Michelle Branch and writer/producer Dave Bassett. Judy Stakee pulled him over to Warner/Chappell as her assistant and a song plugger. JOSHUA JACOBS Director of mobile marketing, Universal Motown/Republic Group It's ironic that Joshua Jacobs' current office at Universal Music has poor cell phone reception. Jacobs, 26, has built a powerhouse of mobile music initiatives as head of one of the first mobile marketing departments at a major label. He joined Universal as an assistant to executive VP of global digital initiatives David Ellner, but his life changed when he was handed his first ringtone clearance project. Since then, the mobile music sphere has take off, and Jacob's division holds the title for most ringtones sold (Chamillionaire's "Ridin',") and the best-selling rock ringtone (Hinder's "Lips of an Angel"). On Jacobs' horizon: his new Cash Money Records mobile singles club and an AT&T Team USA Olympic music/ringtones download plan. GENEVIEVE JEWELL New media manager, Borman Entertainment Genevieve Jewell, 24, has quickly made her mark since joining Borman Entertainment in Nashville in April 2007. With previous experience at Nettwerk Management, Jewell handles all new-media campaigns for Borman's Nashville clients, including Keith Urban, Faith Hill and newcomer Lady Antebellum. Jewell started mobile campaigns for the company's artists. She also helped bring Urban and iLike together, making him the first artist to partner with the pioneering Web site. "I can't imagine not having Genevieve's vision, expertise and focus in these critical areas," owner/president Gary Borman says. "This world evolves by the hour and we've been able to stay in the wave and integrate her efforts with those of all the other media and marketing arenas." LUCAS MANN Co-founder/president, Original Signal Recordings, Co-founder, Music Nation Lucas Mann, 29, tapped experience at major labels, management and in new-media fields in creating artist development company Original Signal Recordings and music company/social network Music Nation with co-founder/CEO Daniel Klaus. "He's young, but I've never met anybody better in working with artists -- and understanding the new digital world," Klaus says, citing his work with the firm's emerging stars Ingrid Michaelson and David Ford. Mann himself points to Michaelson in illustrating his approach: "We hooked up with her really early on and were able to custom-build a strategy on what she wanted and needed, based on the freedom to focus on different elements of equal importance." AMIT KAPUR COO, MySpace Amit Kapur is the new youtful face of MySpace, now that founders Chris DeWolfe and Tom Anderson are getting a bit long-of-tooth for that role. The 27-year-old joined MySpace in 2005 in a business development role and quickly made an impact. He led the social networking giant's international expansion as well as multiple partnership deals. Rising through the ranks, as VP of business development, Kapur brought in an ad monetization deal with Google and spearheaded its first music licensing pact with Sony BMG. In January, Kapur was named COO and now leads all global business operations, strategic partnerships, developer platforms and MySpace Mobile. MELINA MATSOUKAS Video director, Black Dog Production Melina Matsoukas, 27, is behind some of today's favorite music videos. Matsoukas got her start in 2006 when she directed the video for "Go Head" from rappers Ali & Gipp. But a clip of Ludacris' "Money Maker" featuring Pharrell is what "first put me on the map," she says. Since then, Matsoukas has worked with Beyoncé ("Kitty Kat," "Green Light," "Suga Mama" and "Upgrade U"), on Solange Knowles' "I Decided" and Snoop Dogg's "Sensual Seduction." She's currently working with singers Keri Hilson and Ashanti and hopes to move into commercials and films. JOE MONDRY Manager of creative services and marketing, Cherry Lane Music Publishing Joe Mondry was hired by Cherry Lane in 2006 straight from his college internship. "I noticed right away his uncanny ability to match songs to projects, which is why music supervisors love him," senior VP of creative and marketing Richard Stumpf says. Combining administrative and creative roles, Mondry, 23, has placed Elvis Presley's "Can't Help Falling in Love" in the upcoming feature "The Other End of the Line" and new singer/songwriter Daniel Cage's "Smile" in the "South of Nowhere" TV series. "We're all for getting promotional value, even if it's not a six-figure synch check," Mondry says. "So we're very much interested in music-heavy newer shows that might not pay [as] well but are known to break artists and writers." BRITT MORGAN-SAKS Senior creative director, Sony/ATV Music Publishing After roles at Epic Records, Def Jam, management company DGI, Steve Stoute's cosmetic company Carol's Daughter and Famous Music Publishing -- where she was responsible for such artists as Akon and signed producer/singer/songwriter K. Smith -- Britt Morgan-Saks, 28, is on a roll at Sony/ATV. "She's equally comfortable with artist/writers like Akon and signing artists like Flight of the Conchords and Sara Bareilles," the company's U.S. co-president Danny Strick says. Morgan-Saks says, "Publishing [is] the marriage of everything I love to do in working with creative people and listening to music." NURIA NET Co-founder/co-editor-in-chief, Remezcla.com Nuria Net, 26, teamed up with business partner Claire Frisbie to launch Remezcla.com and, in two years, the ad-supported site has grown to encompass local Latin culture guides in five cities, a content channel with MySpace Latino, live events, a partnership with Zune and publishing, including a guide to New York's Latin summer events. Remezcla covers "everything from a small film screening in someone's garage to a concert at Madison Square Garden in a hip and smart way because we feel Latin media is lacking that," Net says. Co-founder Frisbie adds, "We're very involved in what we cover. It's not just a site where we cover what's going on." RON PERRY Senior creative A&R, Songs Music Publishing Ron Perry, 29, joined Songs Music Publishing shortly after former EMI Group strategist Matt Pincus founded the company in 2004. WIth his own experience at EMI and independent labels, Perry says he was poised to create "value for great acts with real careers" outside the hits-driven realm of major publishers. He has signed 60-plus artists/writers. "I almost hired him at Sire," says Q Prime A&R exec Michael Goldstone, former head of Sire Records, "and since then I've seen him grow into someone who has impeccable taste, instinct and a high level of business acumen." Gold Village Entertainment's Danny Goldberg manages acts signed with Perry and calls him "one of the brightest guys" he's met since moving back into artist management. DAVIS POWERS Director of music programming, Current TV Davis Powers in 2005 was wooed from his music director post at "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" to help start Current TV. With more creative freedom, he let loose with cutting-edge exclusive specials featuring Radiohead, Portishead and Death Cab for Cutie. "We don't have a set interview or concert show," says Powers, 29. "It's more about us working from the ground floor up with artists. We have a platform available to artists they wouldn't normally see on television, a chance for them to really connect with the audience." '''TANISHA SCOTT Choreographer/dancer, Bloc Agency Tanisha Scott, 28, has got some moves. The choreographer/dancer began her career in 2001, when she joined singer Mya's tour as a back up dancer. Later, director Little X, a childhood friend and fellow Canadian, summoned her to appear in some of his videos, which led to her first choreography gig for reggae artist Sean Paul. "That's what jump-started everything," Scott says. After working on Paul's "Give Me the Light" clip, Scott was hired to choreograph Beyonce's "Baby Boy" and to work alongside the Pussycat Dolls. Since, Scott's created dance routines for Nas, Jay-Z and Alicia Keys, including stage-managing Keys' latest As I Am tour. She i scurrently working with Ludaris and Eve, among others.''' DANA SHAYEGAN Music marketing manager, Beyond Marketing Group Dana Shayegan has been working on the music marketing efforts of Toyota's youth-oriented Scion car line since joining the business side of Urb magazine fresh out of the University of California, Los Angeles. He left Urb and the magazine business behind to join Beyond Marketing Group, where he handles music licensing. At Beyond, the 27-year-old helped launch several music marketing initiatives for Scion including the car maker's independent record label Scion Audio Visual and its 17-channel online radio station, Scion Radio 17. The label has put out more than 20 music projects with all revenue going back to the featured artists. He has also worked on nationwide tours that are produced by Scion and events at the Winter Music Conference and the South by Southwest Music and Media Conference. Shayegan also is the label manager in the United States for Mystic Urchin Music/Grown Folks Agency, a Jamaican-based reggae label. YANDY SMITH Partner/manager, Monami Entertainment After pursing an entertainment law career, Yandy Smith, 28, switched paths to become an intern/assistant for Violator Management maven Mona Scott in 2002. Adopting the company's no-nonsense approach to business, Smith soon met rapper Jim Jones and helped him navigate the industry's pitfalls. After juggling her assistant duties for Scott while moonlighting as Jones' manager, Smith eventually left Violator to focus on the rapper's music and his previous role as A&R director for Warner Music Group. Last October, Smith closed a 50/50 joint venture artist/production deal for Jones with Columbia Records, which allows the MC to retain his masters. Jones plans to release his debut album for Columbia in September and has been collaborating in the studio with Rick Rubin, Chink Santana, No ID, Supa Dave, Ron Browz and Chris Styles. Recently, Smith rejoined Scott at her newly formed Monami Entertainment company, where the pair co-manage Busta Rhymes, Missy Elliott and TV personality Tocarra. JESSE STOLL Operations coordinator, AEG Live Florida As the son of late Florida-based concert promoter Jon Stoll of Fantasma Productions, Jesse Stoll, 22, takes on his new job at AEG Live's recently opened regional office in West Palm Beach, Fla., with invaluable knowledge of the live business. "I had been shadowing my dad for years," Stoll says. "I've grown up in the music business." Jon Stoll's Fantasma Concerts was one of Florida's key promoters for many years and booked shows from Jacksonville to Tampa, Orlando to Miami. Jesse Stoll, a 2008 graduate of the University of Miami, has spent the past four years with Sony BMG as a college marketing rep, while also managing rock act Big Bang Radio. As operations coordinator at AEG Live Florida, Stoll has big plans for the Southeast region. "What I'm going to do is try to put some concepts and ideas together for special events and festivals," he says, noting that venue acquisitions are also in the works. "Ten or 20 years from now, I want to see something under AEG Live Florida's name and my name." ANTHONY VOLODKIN Founder, Hype Machine One of today's most groundbreaking online music services was created by, and for some time operated by, just one man: Anthony Volodkin. In 2005, when he was all of 19, Volodkin created Hype Machine, a real-time index of music streaming on more than 600 MP3 blogs at any time. With music blogs overtaking professional critics as the primary source of music recommendation, Hype Machine is emerging as a juggernaut of growing influence. What's more, the now-22-year-old Russian immigrant focused on monetizing music from the start, providing "buy" links to first iTunes, then Amazon. Volodkin now has a few friends helping him with the site, which has spawned imitators and interested investors. ALAINA VEHEC Manager of mobile marketing and sales, Sony BMG Nashville Alaina Vehec, 27, came to Nashville by way of New York, where she had interned with Arista Records before joining RCA Music Group, then parent Sony BMG, in its global digital business group. When Sony BMG Nashville decided to bring mobile marketing and sales in-house, it hired Vehec, a lifelong country music fan, who moved to Music City in 2006. Despite the mobile industry's perception, Vehec says country can sell via mobile platforms. "It's basically the only genre in mobile that's on the increase," she says. "If you hand something to our consumer, they'll buy it. It's finding the easiest way to get them something." MAT VLASIC Director of artist development/merchandising, Epic Records As head of Epic Records' Thread Shop, a partnership with MerchDirect, Mat Vlasic allows Epic to offer tour, online and retail merchandising for artists within and outside the Sony BMG family. "Traditionally, labels marketed and distributed only one facet of an artist's creative output: their music," says Vlasic, 29. "We wanted to change that and are now fleshing out our relationships with artists. Instead of being passive in our 360 model, we are taking the responsibility on ourselves to further extend the brand, specifically through merchandise." Thread Shop clients include such companies as RED, Zomba Label Group and Commercial Music Group and acts including Billy Joel, Sean Kingston, and others. **** Reporting by Ayala Ben-Yehuda, Jim Bessman, Antony Bruno, Ed Christman, Leila Cobo, Jonathan Cohen, Mariel Concepcion, Hillary Crosley, Cortney Harding, Katie Hasty, Kamau High, Laura Leebove, Catherine Olson, Mitchell Peters, Deborah Evans Price, Ken Tucker and Ray Waddell.

KimwritesKimwrites (talk) 17:30, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Hiya Kimwrites (talk)! Thanks for that. But this is an example of why the article doesn't sit right with me -- although it may be in good faith, choosing to say that she was "highlighted" on the list, as opposed to being included on it, is hype. IMO, she's definitely notable, and she's had a cool/admirable career - you just need to keep it factual and on-point, and we're good to go. Thanks! Julie JSFarman (talk) 18:14, 12 February 2014 (UTC) Got it! I will change that language. KimwritesKimwrites (talk) 18:29, 12 February 2014 (UTC) Hi, I think I fixed the problems in this story. KimwritesKimwrites (talk) 22:52, 12 February 2014 (UTC) Nicely done, Kimwrites (talk! I accepted the article and moved it into the mainspace.  Thanks for your contribution!  Julie Thanks so much Julie. One question: Is there anyway to put that she stage-managed Alicia Keys's As I Am tour back in? It was reported in that Billboard article as well. KimKimwrites (talk) 00:52, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Kim (talk),
 * You can edit the article as you see fit!  But I felt like the reference to Tanisha's gig on the I Am Tour added to the feeling that the article read like a resume -- given what she's accomplished with her choreography, stage managing an Alicia Keys tour is pretty minor (particularly since Alicia's done so much touring).  My goal in asking you to edit the article (and with some of the edits I made) was to keep it from sounding like a resume.   That said, again - do you as you see fit!   Thanks, Julie

Alain Levy wiki page
I do not really understand what else needs to be said. I have seen pages of other business men such as Jeff Bewkes and they actually have even less information. Can you please help me as I need to have this page go live the soonest possible? Thank youEfi OMNIAPICO (talk) 12:14, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello Efi OMNIAPICO (talk),
 * If you read other articles written for business people with similar careers to Alain Levy, you'll see that most of them include more biographical information than the article you submitted. The Jeffrey Bewkes article you referenced covers his early life and career:  "Bewkes was born in Paterson, New Jersey,[3] to an affluent Lutheran family, the middle son of Marjorie Louise (née Klenk) and Eugene Garrett Bewkes, Jr.,[4] an executive at Norton Simon.[5][6][7] He is of Dutch and German ancestry,[8] was raised in Darien, Connecticut,[8] and is a graduate of Deerfield Academy.[5] In 1974, he graduated from Yale[8] and later graduated with an MBA from Stanford.[5] He sits on both his alma maters' respective advisory boards.[9] After school, he worked at a Sonoma Vineyard winery and then took a job in New York City as a commercial banker with Citibank in their shipping lending unit."   Others you can look at include Doug Morris, Lucian Grainge, Jimmy Iovine, Irving Azoff.  The lack of personal background in the submission leads to the impression that the article is a (well-written) resume.


 * Also, there are issues of omission -- it was a huge story when 1800 jobs were cut when he restructured EMI.  I'm not suggesting that you need to go into any great detail, but it should certainly be mentioned given the attention it received.  A fleshed-out article would include that.


 * I also noted that the article lacks inline citations, and there should be citations for each of the claims that are made: that Polygram was the most profitable of all the major labels, for example, should be specifically supported by a reference. (You need an independent third party source that confirms this.)    There are many examples of this in the submission - overhead savings of $250M annually, first media company to digitize content, Polygram Filmed Entertainment biggest European studio, etc.


 * Again, I know that he's an incredibly important part of the music/media industry! I'd love to see an article on him.   Hit me back if you need more specifics.  And - if you have a WP:COI pay careful attention to WP:NPOV.  (I'm not saying that you do -- but needing the page to go live as soon as possible suggests that you may.)   Thanks, and happy editing!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 17:46, 13 February 2014 (UTC)


 * It was easier to fix it than explain howto fix it, so I accepted it & did the basic needed wikifying, and the usual sort of copying for conciseness.  DGG ( talk ) 23:33, 13 February 2014 (UTC)


 * DGG ( talk ): A man of action. Thanks! Julie JSFarman (talk) 02:57, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello, thank you both for your help! One more question.. Can you please help me out with uploading a picture of Alain Levy on his wiki page? I can't seem to do it myself (I am new on this and still learning!) Thank you EfiEfi OMNIAPICO (talk) 11:00, 14 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Heya Efi! Efi OMNIAPICO (talk)


 * There's a "Tools" option on the left navigation bar. Select that, and click "upload file."  There's a wizard that will show up to guide you through the process.   (Make sure to name the file in a way that will make it identifiable; for example "AlainLevy2014.")


 * You'll be asked for permission for the photo to be used on Wikipedia. You need to send it to permissions-en@wikipedia.org when you upload the file (or soon after).   It needs to come from the photographer or the copyright owner, but a note of forewarning:  I've had situations where I've been asked for proof of transfer re: ownership, and my experience has been that the paperwork is hard to come by.


 * The release I use is below. It's admittedly over the top (and covers more than it needs to), but it goes beyond serving the purpose.


 * I hereby affirm that I, (PHOTOGRAPHER OR COPYRIGHT OWNER)  am the sole owner of the exclusive copyright of the attached photo, titled (photo name here.) I agree that the work may be published under the free license, Creative Commons Share-Alike 3.0 (unported) and GNU Free Documentation License (unversioned, with invariant sections, front-cover texts, or back-cover texts.


 * I acknowledge that by doing so I grant anyone the right to use the work in a commercial product or otherwise, and to modify it according to their needs, provided that they abide by the terms of the license and any other applicable laws.


 * I am aware that this agreement is not limited to Wikipedia or related sites.


 * I am aware that I always retain copyright of my work, and retain the right to be attributed in accordance with the license chosen. Modifications others make to the work will not be claimed to have been made by me.


 * I acknowledge that I cannot withdraw this agreement, and that the content may or may not be kept permanently on a Wikimedia project.


 * Signed: (PHOTOGRAPHER)
 * Contact: (PHOTOGRAPHER)


 * I hope that helps! I agree that it can  be tough to suss out at first.  You're welcome to hit me back if you need more info, but -- since communicating via talk page can be clunky -- you  might be better off asking at the IRC.   The editors there are amazing and you can get help in real time.  (Hit the "help" button the left nav, and go to the "I'm stuck" section -- you'll see a link to the help chatroom.


 * Good luck! Julie JSFarman (talk) 15:26, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Contact info Date

JSF:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Oblivion_(musical_group)
You made a suggestion about my page submission at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BobPetro/sandbox in regard to Oblivion (Musical group) or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblivion_(musical_group) that Encylopedia Metallum is a listing source, not a reference. If I remove it from reference and create a listings section will that suffice? This page is intended for the original band, Oblivion. Wikipedia is allowing two other musical Oblivions that came after the original band and one also utilize's Encylopedia Metallum. That band(see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblivion_(metal_band) notes they are trying to secure the rights to the band name but there is no validity to the claim, just a link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Patent_and_Trademark_Office. I am including its references below and I used this as a guide but could not sunstantiate anything it lists under "Ownership of band name and endorsements".  The original Oblivion's sources are stronger with a longer history and substantiated via a third party, neutral source.  Thanks for your assistance and I realize you are busy and I am in no rush, which is evident since I am replying to your suggestion from September 28, 2013.  I am just trying secure the original Oblivion's place on Wikipedia because of the bands that came after the original band.  Thanks again.

Oblivion (metal band) References below:

1.^ Jump up to: a b c d "Metal Archives - Oblivion (USA)". Metal-archives.com. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 2.^ Jump up to: a b c d "Oblivion Signs With Unique Leader Records". Blabbermouth.net. 2013-07-22. Retrieved 2013-10-28. 3.Jump up ^ "Nick Vasallo - New Piece Performance". The Circle Pit. 2013-04-20. Retrieved 2013-10-28. 4.Jump up ^ "Various – Complete Death 2". Discogs.com. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 5.Jump up ^ "Oblivion band info". Facebook.com. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 6.Jump up ^ "Rhodes Amplification NEWS". Rhodesamplification.com. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 7.Jump up ^ "Oblivion Posts "Annunaki" Studio Footage". Metalunderground.com. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 8.Jump up ^ "Trademark Search > Trademark Category > Computer & Software Products & Electrical & Scientific Products > OBLIVION". Trademarkia.com. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 9.Jump up ^ "Trademarks > Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS) > Oblivion > Serial Number# 85511004". Uspto.gov. 2011-12-29. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 10.Jump up ^ "KxK Endorsed Artists". Kxkguitars.com. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 11.Jump up ^ "Who Uses Rhodes Amplification?". rhodesamplification.com. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 12.Jump up ^ "OBLIVION Biography". CD Baby. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 13.Jump up ^ "Oblivion > Discography". Metal Archives. 2012-01-16. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 14.Jump up ^ "Oblivion Demo 2012". CD baby. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 15.Jump up ^ "CALLED TO RISE - OBLIVION". Bandcamp. Retrieved 2012-12-12. 16.Jump up ^ "New Signing: Oblivion". Uniqueleader.com. 2013-07-26. Retrieved 2013-10-28. 17.Jump up ^ "OBLIVION - Studio Session No. 1: "Annunaki"". Youtube.com. 2012-01-06. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 18.Jump up ^ "OBLIVION - Studio Session No. 2: "Reclamation"". Youtube.com. 2012-01-11. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 19.Jump up ^ "OBLIVION - Studio Session No. 3: "Between Suns of Light"". Youtube.com. 2012-01-17. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 20.Jump up ^ "OBLIVION - Black Veils of Justice (Official Video)". Youtube.com. 2012-01-17. Retrieved 2012-01-21. 21.Jump up ^ "OBLIVION - Reclamation (Official Video)". Youtube.com. 2012-12-22. Retrieved 2012-12-22. 22.Jump up ^ "OBLIVION - Canon 1 in E minor (Official Video) [HD]". Youtube.com. 2013-04-14. Retrieved 2013-07-22. 23.Jump up ^ "OBLIVION - Multiverse (Official Video) [HD]". Youtube.com. 2013-07-29. Retrieved 2013-07-22. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BobPetro (talk • contribs) 16:30, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi BobPetro (talk, and apologies for the delay.
 * The problem with the article isn't that Encyclopedia M is characterized as a references, and not a listing -- it's that it's not a significant, independent reference that establishes notability. The info is good to have there, but only to support the assertions of the article.  First hurdle is to demonstrate that the (original!) Oblivion is notable, and you need to find reliable, independent coverage in order to do that.  Blogs, YouTube, Fanzines etc. aren't considered reliable sources.   Take a loot at WP:REFB and WP:MUSIC for more specifics.   If you can find those sources, I'm glad to help you with the rest.  Thanks!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 19:40, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up and direction Julie. I am researching your suggested links but think I might have confused the situation in regard to references. The references I listed above are from the Oblivion trying to take the (original) Oblivion's name. That band also references endorsements that do not exist. Can you help me understand what I am doing different the the other Oblivion and maybe compare that article to the one I am trying to create? If you see the references they used (above), they were the references you refer to as the unreliable references. I did use Encyclopedia Metallum after seeing the other Oblivion using it but I did steer clear of blogs and YouTube but those are the references the other Oblivion is using.

I included independent sources such as; ^ Hale, Mark (1993). Headbangers. Ann Arbor, Michigan: Popular Culture, Ink. p. 249. ISBN 1-56075-029-4 and included embedded links within the article to our TV appearances on VH1's Metal Evolution episode 106 - the thrash metal years, The Uncle Floyd Show, etc. A lot of my references are linked to other wikipedia embedded sources that I did not list under references since the hyperlink was available to use in another wikipedia article. When I started writing the article Encyclopedia Metallum was a verified source at a wikipedia group that I am having difficulty finding again but just saw it last month. I am sorry if I am confusing the situation between the two bands. Their article does note that their sources need verification, yet it is still there. Again, thanks for taking your time to help me, this is fairly new to me but I did realize not to reference blogs and You Tube like the other band is doing. I just wish when we were rolling in 1984 all of this technology was available then so I could have captured all of the accomplishments of the band at the time. Kind Regards and your help is more valuable to me then you can be aware. Bob. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BobPetro (talk • contribs) 19:30, 2 March 2014 (UTC)


 * HiBobPetro (talk • contribs) I agree that the other Oblivion has pretty week sourcing.  I just added a tag to their entry.  I also understand the problem with older articles -- it's tough to find publications that are archived back to the 80s.  (I've gone through this many times.)   I wish I had some suggestions, but unfortunately the first criteria for inclusion in Wikipedia is notability, and valid references are required.  I'm so sorry - I want to help!

Julie JSFarman (talk) 19:52, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Questions on "ProEvents" page
Dear Sir

Below is the link you reviewed previously: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/ProEvents

Thank you for you review & comments made. I understand your point of notability, and actually I've included references which are specifically about ProEvents as below: 4. http://www.thestar.com.my/story.aspx/?file=%2f2012%2f6%2f9%2fmetrobiz%2f11436371 1. http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/chelsea_football_club_partner_secures_lucrative_contract_in_the_far_east/

I've also found a Chinese link which is not yet posted on the page as below: (I can add it to the references if it's approved) - http://hk.next.nextmedia.com/article/908/7392693 (It requires user log-in on the Next Magazine official website) - http://news.idsam.com/news.xddddd.com/personal.wawa/27953.htm (The full article)

As ProEvents is an event management company, so it somehow works as back-stage to support the football teams in Asia. Thus, there is relatively less chance for ProEvents to be reported as major content of the articles.

However, as you know, football business & the commercial value of the top football teams is significantly high in Asia, and under the age of information-explosive, the people are interested to know who brought the teams to Asia over the years to make the football fans a series of enjoyments every summer, so you could see from the above links that people started interview ProEvents.

Moreover, like "World Sport Group" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Sport_Group), which is similar nature as "ProEvents", after compared, I believe the references of "ProEvents" now are more comprehensive than "World Sport Group", also, there are a few references "specifically about ProEvents", while got none on "World Sports Group" page.

Thank you very much in advance and please kindly advise if I have any misunderstanding or improvement.

Regards & Thanks

Pem816 (talk) 07:33, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Julie

Hope you are well! Regarding to the enquiry above, is there any comments or updates you can advise?

Regards & Thanks

Pem816 (talk) 04:00, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Hello Pem816 (talk) - I'm so sorry - I didn't see your original message. I won't have a chance to look at the article again until Wednesday or Thursday though - so if you've added references, you should go ahead and resubmit it - another reviewer might get to it before I do. Sorry again. Julie JSFarman (talk) 06:05, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi Julie

It's okay, no worry. Thank you for your comments made.

Pem816 (talk) 02:03, 19 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Good morning Pem816 (talk), Thanks for being so understanding!  I just took another look at the page, and -- given your comments above -- realized that I'm not qualified to respond intelligently.  I do know that in most cases the existence of articles about similar subjects isn't a valid reason to create new articles.


 * I'm glad to see that you resubmitted the article with additional references - there are reviewers who know much more about football than I do, and hopefully one of them will take a look at your article.  Thanks for your patience (and for being cool).  Best, Julie JSFarman (talk) 15:07, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Clifford S. Pukel
Hi Julie, Not sure what happened but I was working with you and making changed etc and I must have done something wrong because I resubmitted my article to someone else. I am hoping we can continue to work together. Here is the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Clifford_S._Pukel,_M.D. I have made the changes you suggested and am still working on it, know I have a ways to go and am looking forward to working with you again when you return after the 26th. Hope you are on a great vacation!

Barb — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bnatelle (talk • contribs) 12:10, 18 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Barb (talk),


 * I'm not actually on vacation -- I'm just taking a Wikibreak for mental health purposes. I was getting a little obsessive. (I still am, clearly, given that I'm here responding!)


 * Anyway, I apologize for not responding to your earlier message. I looked at your edited submission, and found that there were still issues regarding the content, and neglected to follow up.


 * The editor who gave you advice on your talk page, DGG, wrote: "In reply to the comments by the reviewer, I see you used the phrase "something we can submitt with approval". I call your attention to WP:COI To give an acceptable article. I am not reviewing it formally, because if I did, I would find it necessary to send it for deletion as advertising ,there's a good deal that needs omission, such as all of his lectures, and all adjectives and phrases of praise, and all quotations of his own talks and writings. Then rewrite the article to show, not what he wants to say about himself, but what someone in the general public might want to know."


 * DGG has (unknowingly) been educating me on Wikipedia since I started out here -- I regularly read his talk pages and articles just to learn -- and you couldn't possibly get better advice! Thanks and happy editing, Julie JSFarman (talk) 17:49, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Clifford S. Pukel
Hi Julie,

I have deleted a good deal from the article. I am learning so hopefully am on the right track. I do appreciate all of your comments, and hope you had a good break. Have used a number of external links and have not cited any of Dr Pukel's authored work with the exception of his book. Not sure what is allowed and not, but will continue to work on this until I get it right. Here is the link for when you have time to review.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Clifford_S._Pukel.

Barb — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bnatelle (talk • contribs) 20:36, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello again, Bnatelle (talk • contribs. Your edit is hardcore!  I think we might need to dig some more to express why he's notable -- let me spend some time with it and I'll hit you back with specific recommendations.  In the interim, you should resubmit the article and get it in the queue, which is seriously backlogged at the moment.  Thanks for your patience!  Julie JSFarman (talk) 19:30, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on changes to the AfC mailing list
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A barnstar for you!
 Hello JSFarman: