User talk:J Greb/Archive May 2008

TfD nomination of DC and Marvel trademark and copyright notices
I've nominated four DC and Marvel trademark and copyright templates that you've edited at TfD. Sorry to nominate them for deletion with so little notice to WikiProject Comics, but I feel the templates may be harmful. Matt Fitzpatrick (talk) 03:02, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:Supermanred.png
Thanks for uploading Image:Supermanred.png. Unfortunately, I think that you have not provided a proper rationale for using this image under "fair use". Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page. Note that the image description page must include the exact name or a link to each article the image is used in and a separate rationale for each one. (If a link is used, automated processes may improperly add the related tag to the image.  Please change the fair use template to refer to the exact name, if you see this warning.)

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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Warlock 9.jpg)
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Doctor Fate edits
There has to be a better way to display that, J than having two infoboxes. It looks like a disaster at this point - though that isn't a comment on your edit. I though every article has one infobox. We need to integrate them, as they are all about the same subject; we should not treat the separate incarnations. Alternately, we should create a separate article. Let's meet at the Talk:Doctor Fate page. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  18:06, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Your Userpage
I noticed you reverted my edit to your userpage. I saw that it was sticking out and assumed it was an error. Apparently I was mistaken. I apologize for the trouble I caused. Rau's Speak Page 04:52, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal
This looks as if it's been accomplished. Would you confirm? - jc37 04:50, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Conan (Dark Horse comics) into Conan (Dark Horse comic) - (Discuss) -- 69.182.199.231 (talk) 19:38, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup, everything wound up at Conan (Dark Horse Comics). - J Greb (talk) 14:08, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks : ) - jc37 18:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:IC5cover.jpg)
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Alternate versions of Megaton Man
Hoping you could be an extra set of eyes on this page. BBiA, reverted the merge of this page, which was done after 5 months without any contention. He has not provided any rationale, and has not unmerged the Alt version from the Megaton Man page, which leads me to doubt the good faith in his edits. Thanks for any consideration. -66.109.248.114 (talk) 18:02, 7 May 2008 (UTC).


 * Thanks for the support. -66.109.248.114 (talk) 20:18, 12 May 2008 (UTC).

Sandman
I've started a discussion here. Can you participate? Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 14:04, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:WWDarkseid.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:BatLash1.jpg)
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C&P Moves
You might also want to look at Mastermind Excello. It is probably OK, as it was split (although this isn't mentioned in the summary as required), although I would have moved one and then split it off or something - just so the history is preserved at one of the two.

On a sidenote they do also have a habit of uploading new images and replacing the infobox with them - I have been through a lot of recent edits and while some of them weren't worth bothering with (usually awfully like the ones that were being used already) I did reverse this. I'm sure you are already on this but it might be worth a double check. (Emperor (talk) 17:39, 17 May 2008 (UTC))


 * Yeah... And they've gotten a number of notices about the problems. I've gotten to the point with the images that I just note in the edit summary when I revert them, they don't seem to care about getting warned. I'm just wondering which warning template would be the valid next dstep on the user talk. - J Greb (talk) 17:56, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Harvdent.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Batman - The Long Halloween 11 pg15.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Dentposter.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Twoface-tec66.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Twofacetommyljones.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Detective Comics 818 2nd print coverart.jpg)
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What part of the guideline do you not understand?
I can't tell what you're doing. Are you ignoring what I saying? Is there something in WP:D that you did not read? Please reply on your talk page, which I have watchlisted. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What made you come to that conclusion? WP:RDR and the dab guidelines actually encourage the use of redirects. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:20, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "The Flash" redirects there, for one. As long as the hatnote isn't superfluous (like the sample given at WP:NAMB) then it's acceptable. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:03, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in on the conversation - Sesshomaru brought up this discussion over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation‎. I think the reason that there is the disambiguation hatnote is because searching for "The Flash" redirects you to Flash (comics). Although searching for "The Flash" is different than searching for "Flash", and most of the entries at Flash (disambiguation) are for the term "Flash" rather than "The Flash", it still seems possible that there could be some confusion. Because of this, I think that a disambiguation link at the top of the page is not out of place.

As for whether that link should be to Flash or Flash (disambiguation) (which redirects to Flash, which is where the disambiguation page is located), Wikipedia:Disambiguation guides that when we do a hatnote at the top of the page, for clarification of disambiguation processes, the link should be to Flash (disambiguation). I hope this helps to clarify things - if not, lets keep discussing so that we can come to an understanding between all parties. -- Nataly a 23:36, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * OK... that makes a degree of sense. I'm not 100% sold on the the "The Flash" rationale, though there is/was a proposal for an aticle on the comic book in addition to the characters. - J Greb (talk) 01:06, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm glad it is making some semblance of more sense. That's fair to not be sure about the redirect to "The Flash", but that issue may need to be taken up elsewhere.  Thanks for the discussion. -- Nataly a  01:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I'm mistaken (and I may be), but my understanding was that we should avoid the use of parentheticals whenever possible. And that includes the use of (disambiguation). And that's regardless of whether the link is in a hatnote or not. If the templates default to adding the dab, then they should be modified. Else we're violating naming convention for our (editors') ease of use, rather than deferring to the reader and navigation. Sounds like a really bad idea.
 * The "hatnote" can just as easily read: "For other uses of the term, please see the disambiguation page Flash." Or some other similar text. - jc37 18:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the salient points are:
 * Avoid redirects in general terms, except...
 * In hatnotes that point to dab pages, if, and only if...
 * A redirect to the article is ambiguous.
 * So that it is crystal clear that there is a dab page that may lead for what the user may have been looking for.
 * In the case of Flash (comics), since The Flash — potentially unclear — is pointing to the article, the hatnote should have the "(dab)" suffix.
 * I can see the logic, I don't really agree with it's foundations, but I can see the logic. - J Greb (talk) 21:59, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

J Greb, why do you keep suggesting that one should "avoid redirects" when we actually have guidelines that support them? I know double redirects are to be avoided, yes, but pipe links are a preference. Just curious. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:14, 21 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Please, it isn't that hard to look and copy a user's name, especially when you are posting to their talk. And since I've got a bot archiving threads, is going to look damn silly when this thread is archived.
 * There are groups of editors that do sweep to swap links, piped or not, away from redirects. Some examples, all be it a little on the extreme:
 * Peter Parker -> Peter Parker
 * the Flash -> the Flash (may vary if the specific character is known...)
 * Peter Parker -> Peter Parker
 * - J Greb (talk) 02:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Problem solved. I apologize. Sometimes I forget to add the "subst" ;) Thanks for explaining. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:18, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

1990s comics categories
Just thought I'd let you know I have sketched out the remaining 1990s categories and their debut children: Category:1990s comics. That leaves the door open for you to create the relevant image categories.

It is slightly slow going as the debut categories clearly need a bit of a start (I found one of the proof of concept examples I made was deleted while I was fiddling with the 2000s.

If it'd be easier for you to do a wider roll out we can go through and hammer in categories for other decades and then continue on working back with the debuts (and looking at it it might be wise to fix the patchiness of those main categories). Your call. (Emperor (talk) 02:51, 20 May 2008 (UTC))


 * Sounds good... I was putting off the yearly image cats untile there were 20 or more imagesfor a pop. If you think its better to have all of them in place, I can go ahead and add the missing ones for the 90s and 200s... and likely the 60s, 70s, and 80s as well. - J Greb (talk) 22:15, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Up to you - making the categories would allow other people to add things too but experience shows it is often wise to make sure there are enough things to fill them. So whatever works best for you. The 90s are there and I'll keep working backwards for now as time allows. (Emperor (talk) 22:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC))

Infobox nonsense
I would ask that you instead of edit-warring, you build a consensus for inclusion. As the majority of other articles (comic and non-comic) do not use multiple infoboxes, I do not need a consensus to prevent its inclusion, as it is preserving the encyclopedic uniformity. You need to build a consensus for changing how it is done. I would urge you - as I have before - to take this proposed change to either the Village Pump or to the Comics Wikiproject. It is inappropriate to attempt to do so in the article. Discuss, and build a consensus for inclusion, please. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  00:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * As stated at the page in question: We've hit WP:BDR. The onus is yours. And plese, be mindful the fullness of my lats post on the talk page. - J Greb (talk) 00:45, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It's WP:BRD, I believe. : )
 * And based on that, J Greb would be correct that the onus appears to be on you, Arcayne.
 * Perhaps you may wish to drop a note at the WikiProject talk page (or even post a notice at the RFC part of the Noticeboard), if you haven't already?


 * As I intend to eventually join the discussion as a participant, I won't comment further except to suggest that User:Arcayne may also wish to consider their tone. "Nonsense infoboxes" doesn't come across anywhere close to being neutral, much less, WP:CIVIL. - jc37 01:09, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, the onus is on JGreb, as he is introducing something (a second infobox) with far-reaching consequences for not just the the Comics Wikiproject, but the Community. I am not changing policy or attempting to alter consensus; I am enforcing it. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  01:31, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, since this is currently common practice on an overview page, he's not introducing anything "new". Indeed, I note that this infobox has been around for quite some time. And that these boxes have been discussed even recently at the WikiProject talk page.
 * But you know what? I've just realised that I don't care who the "onus" is on. I'll be dropping a note there myself, thus relieving you both of the "need".
 * And per The Wrong Version, I also don't care whether the page currently has the infobox or not. Let's let the discussion determine that. - jc37 01:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

3rd Person...
Doctor Fate and it's talk page could use a neutral set of eyes at the moment. - J Greb (talk) 00:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the notice. I've left comments in the section above. However, I don't believe I'll comment further as a WP:3PO (unless directly asked), as I intend to eventually join the discussion as a participant in this case. - jc37 01:09, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Scratching head...
I wonder what to make of this. - J Greb (talk) 02:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I note that the edit was prior to their most recent comments. Beyond that I won't guess, but will be content to note it for potential future reference. - jc37 03:50, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Or, perhaps, one could simply go to the source and ask - which would be far more instructive than our imaginations, right? If you are going to stalk my edits, please use some wisdom and take the time to ask for clarification rather than to assume the worst.
 * In answer to the unfortunately unasked question, I was checking out the rollback feature (via the testing protocol), and added a nonsense edit. cache in my comp added the remainder after I typed the word edit. As I do not have rollback as yet, I was unable to delete the text.
 * Please, do us all the favor of simply asking next time, okay? - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  15:19, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Rather than assume the worst
I've responded to the question and response posted here. A little good faith (or simply asking for interpretation) might have served both of you fellers better. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  15:22, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * (smiles at "fellers" : )
 * Anyway, just consider this: As you've commented on my talk page, and this talk page already, there's a fairly safe presumption that you're watching both. My response allowed you the decision as to whether comment or not, while merely noting the the edit existed "for future reference" if need be.
 * You might consider that that request for "a little good faith is also a two-way street : ) - jc37 20:17, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Fan art
In answer to your question, it is fan art. The site is here: http://comolo.redsectorart.com As the characters in question haven't appeared all that much, this one is an easy call. By that logic, the image in the SHB could be replaced. I would have no objections to anyone doing so.

Asgardian (talk) 16:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Template Reverts
I made expressly sure that the changes I made were legible, so why is there a legibility issue? --CmdrClow (talk) 02:53, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In about half of them the main title text fought with the banner. And in all of them the "show/hide" and tool links were swamped. The tools may be a debatable issue, but the "show/hide" need to be there, and visible.
 * There are also issues with WP:COLOR and WP:ACCESS. The long and the short — the color usage should keep the information accessible for all, in all cases.
 * And lastly there's a point out of WP:NAVBOX, which should be taken to the Project as a whole. That is that the needs to be a good justification for overriding the default color settings. I can see why there is a desire to color code the 'boxes to the topic, but I've got the feeling that the Project needs to take a look and see if there is consensus to 1) do it and 2) how. - J Greb (talk) 03:56, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree with your assessments, since on some of them, there were clearly visible tags for all. Why change all of them, including the ones that were fine? Are you floating CmdrClow's edits? I did some looking and it seems you have in the past. --ComicsPlace (talk) 22:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


 * First off, look those versions in gray-scale. How many of them have the default link text easily visible? That's where accessibility comes in, if the tool, and that is what navboxes are, is going up, it has to be usable by all.
 * Second, this isn't a case of floating Clow, but having the templates in my watch list, looking at what was done, and say "wait a tick". And I've had a variation of this conversation before, and I'll repeat my stance from there - If I'm working on something, or it pops up on my watchlist, and I find problems, I'll fix 'em. If that means I hit a string of edits or pages that someone else has edited in good faith but caused the problem, that convergence, not floating. I'll apologize for hurt feelings if needs be, but I won't avoid fixing based on a sensitive editor.
 * Last, I'd be cautious about putting forward an argument about "floating" when my only recorded edits either follow another editor as a booster or create an advert in the face of policy. - J Greb (talk) 22:50, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Batman template reverts
No problem on your reverts to my adding Bane et al as villains on the Batman template. I actually looked for some discussion before I added these and didn't find it (I'm pleading incompetence here, neh?). Then, I figured if I added a few I'd find out (like this) if it wasn't cool to touch the Bats' template! No harm, no foul, and I'll just stand down quietly on this one. I would like to note that in many cases on the villain's page, the template was being used. It didn't make sense that an article on Mr. Freeze that uses the Batman template wouldn't have Mr. Freeze as one of the villains on the template. I'm not making a case here, but you can see how that could cause confusion. -- Quartermaster (talk) 01:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Image:Damage (comics).jpg)
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