User talk:J Greb/Archive Oct 2010

Orphaned non-free image File:ArtemisCampFire.jpg
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Thank you. DASHBot (talk) 05:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Hello. I am the original uploader of this image before you made resize edits to it. I am also the person who changed the main photo on the Artemis of Bana-Mighdall page. I made the change as the Artemis image shared spotlight with an alternate character. Please do not revert the image back to the shared picture. If you feel the change should be reverted, please use the article's discussion page. If the consensus agrees with you, I will revert the image. In the meanwhile, the present page meets Wiki article guidelines. Artemisboy (talk) 15:34, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are the original uploader. But that gives you zero special privileges over the image or its use. To imply it does smacks of ownership.
 * And yes, there is an issue with the current image in the infobox of Artemis of Bana-Mighdall. But replacing a shared image with one that has more problems - extremely oversized and head shot only - isn't an improvement.
 * Lastly, you want to make a change and it gets reverted, it is up to you to show there is consensus for the change, not the other way round.
 * - J Greb (talk) 15:47, 30 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for responding and noting the links to the specific Wiki guideline pages. It was in consideration of using these guidelines that I made the edits. I'm sorry if you felt that I was enacting special privileges of either the images or of the article itself. I simply provided general edits that occur on the Wiki site daily. No negative intent meant. To comply with WP:BRD guidelines, let me try to go through my edits individually:
 * According to WP:CMOS, the guidelines state "Pictures which have more characters and/or objects than the subject of the article should only be used if the subject is the most prominent object - editing the picture, by cropping, obscuring and/or painting out the other characters may help to ensure this". In the original photo used, both the Artemis character and the Diana character were given equal prominence. For non-comic book readers this could cause some general confusion. I tried cropping the photo as the guidelines suggest but the image really wasn't that flattering and was a bit pixilated. Because of this I followed the alternate guideline: "If a full-body shot is unavailable, the picture must show the whole of the head and torso (or the equivalent for non-humanoid characters)". I found the image I uploaded and thought it matched the requirement. You are correct that the original image size is much too large. I will be happy to reduce the image to meet Wiki specifications.
 * Regarding the ownership judgement, this is and was not my intent at all. I mentioned that I was the original uploader of the previous images as a nod to the fact that I am familiar with editing the article in question. On the WP:OWN page it talks about "Article changes by different editors are reverted by the same editor repeatedly over an extended period to protect a certain version, stable or not". This is something I strongly feel I am not. Comic book characters are constantly going through a flux of changes. One period within a character's existence can be completely different than it was only a few years later. I chose the new image I uploaded for the Artemis page because that character has not been the Wonder Woman character in over 15 years. The varied Egyptian looks/clothing artist Phil Jimenez has depicted has been in use since she left that title by many other artists and is the most current look to date. I was simply trying to update the article to match the current depiction of the character.
 * Again, I am sorry if you object to my edits. I hope I was able to clearly explain my reasoning for the edits. If we could come to a happy medium I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you. Artemisboy (talk) 16:41, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Dealing with OWN first. The term has also been applied in cases where an editor precedes on an assumption that they have more right to make a decision or edit based on things such as being the primary/initial editor of an article, the one that uploaded a particular image, or some other strong connection to the topic at hand. Looking back at my comment, it may have been a might strong especially since the intent of your edit was to improve the article (something you have a good history with on the Wonder Woman related articles). But I'm a bit wary of arguments that start with "I'm the uploader".
 * As for your explanation of why you made the change, I can understand where you are coming from. And I do agree, the current image falls short on point 3 of the Comics Project guideline. It also skirts points 2.3 (contorted pose) and 4 (most recognizable look). But the replacement you've uploaded has its own problems - points 2.1, 2.2 and 4 as well as the "Resolution" section. Trading one set of problems for another makes little sense. Finding a solo image of Artemis, showing her from head to toe, facing more or less forward, and not contorted without relying on DC Who's Who or similar shouldn't be an issue. More so for you given you're collecting the source material. The rub may come in with "the most current look to date". That can be a poor choice if a character has an established, widely identified design (hen the new "New Look" Wonder Woman not being used in the infobox there). Artemis looks to be a case where there is a single look that is more recognized than the others. Personally, if you come up with an image of the character in the Egyptian-esque design, it's at 300px across, and it meets 2.1 (preferable) or 2.2 as well as 2.3, I've got no problems with the image being changed as long as it stays stable.
 * Right now I've added a template to the articles talk page - - it may be a bit redundant, but I believe it's worth adding. I'll cross post my comments on the image with in the thread you've started there.
 * - J Greb (talk) 17:47, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks J Greb. I'll work on reducing the size of the uploaded image shortly. Artemisboy (talk) 18:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi J Greb. Sorry for the confusion, but doesn't Wiki policy state "If a full-body shot is unavailable, the picture must show the whole of the head and torso (or the equivalent for non-humanoid characters)"? As I presently do not have a full body image of the character to post on the site, shouldn't the headshot image be used as it clearly depicts the character's head and torso? Artemisboy (talk) 20:27, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * And the shoulder line is not the "whole of the torso". The normal delineation is that the image ends between the waist, at a stretch, and the knees. And generally with characters that are depicted in "normal" cloths. If the character is normally depicted in a costume or highly stylized "normal" cloths though, the push is is going to be for head to toe.
 * - J Greb (talk) 20:35, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi J, before I make any changes to the page again, do you have any issues with this new image here? Artemisboy (talk) 22:18, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * From a story or a profile page in the SF? The Profiles fall under the Who's Who prohibition. - J Greb (talk) 22:20, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Noted. I'll keep looking. Artemisboy (talk) 22:28, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright. I found another one. How about this one: Artemis Artemisboy (talk) 02:03, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks good. Right source? - J Greb (talk) 02:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. Just scanned the image myself. Wonder Woman #177. The Artemis page seems to be Protected though. Can't make edits until it is removed. Did you make that request? Artemisboy (talk) 02:16, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Short answer: Post this to the thread on the article's talk page or point jc37 to this thread showing we hit an agreement. - J Greb (talk) 13:59, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Artemis of Bana-Mighdall UnProtection Request
Hello. Regarding the issue on the Artemis of Bana-Mighdall page, it has been resolved. Please see J Greb's talk page for verification. Once the page is unprotected the agreed upon changes can be made. Thank you. Artemisboy (talk) 14:31, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Done
 * You may want to link to this discussion (or move this discussion) to that talk page for future reference.
 * And thanks for discussing positively to work this out.
 * I seem to recall that there was a 3rd person involved too, but I think I'll just drop a note there noting that any further edit warring may lead to blocks at this point. - jc37 20:38, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Copied the remainder over. And IIRC the 3rd party was -5-, who was just picking up a layout typo. - J Greb (talk) 20:53, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Nod, and fixed several typos too : ) - jc37 21:19, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

To float an image in a balloon...

 * Template:WikiProject Comics, File:Superman1941.png, and Talk:Superman and Talk:Clark Kent.

Any way we can turn this (or some other appropriate image) into a speech balloon, like the other task force symbols?

Also, the Spider-man one looks rather grey splotchy, is there possibly something else available? - jc37 04:31, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


 * There likely is a way to crop a section of the Flescher cell into the balloon and fix up the Spider-Man work group one. Howevere:
 * I suck at getting trancparency layers to work, so any end result I come up with will have a white box around it.
 * The Sumernam cell sitting on Commons is suspect. It falls into the same groupouping that resulted in this deletion and a number more. There was an attempt to mass-delete the Flescher images along with a number of others that fell apart because it included blatant examples like Superman1941.png and cells that only contained material explicitly for the shorts. And the wheels at Commons have been grinding slowly to get back to the explicit problem images. The png the old Superman Project used should be renommed, so I wouldn't want to be making a derivative of it for our work group. Maybe a yellow "S" on a blue field?
 * - J Greb (talk) 14:15, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I don't care what the image is personally, as long as it's clear and relevant. I just used the one from Template:WikiProject Superman. (Which I will delete once the article talk pages are changed over.)

That said, (now that you mention it) aren't the Superman Fleischer Studios films now in the public domain? And if so, we should be able to use he images as we want? - jc37 21:27, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

And I just looked at the discussion, (and while IANAL) I don't believe that the links support deletion (as at least one other noted). Especially since (AFAIK) we're not broadcasting them for profit. - jc37 21:32, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Based on the Donald deletion the concern is that the images are derived from, and focused on, a licensend character. The shorts have fallen out of copyright, but the character was used under license. Those holding the rights that were licensed out still hold the rights for the character.
 * And as far as profit goes... the CC-BY-SA licensing that is supposed to be used for content made free prior to normal copyright experation has to be a version that gives up comercial rights if the image is going to migrate to Commons. I'm not sure though if this is the Foundation looking at a potential of publishing for profit at some point or realizing the "free content" Wikipedia gernerates can be used down stream for profit.
 * - J Greb (talk) 22:02, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I think at this point, someone should poke a wikimedia counsel to see what actually is the right way to handle this. - jc37 22:30, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Assistance
I was wondering if you could offer your opinion in this discussion. It concerns whether rumors and speculation about future films as reported by websites should be included in film articles (the specific case being the Batman in film article). The user wants to remove all speculation and rumors as reported by websites. I say that it is okay as long as it is referenced and presented from a neutral point-of-view, which all of the information in the article is. There's no edit war or anything, and I wouldn't oppose removing information from websites found not to be credible. Thanks.-5- (talk) 21:15, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Circe-dccomics.png
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Orphaned non-free image File:Wonder Woman 279.jpg
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Assistance
Is it necessary to directly link to "In other media" sections in the following templates:


 * Template:Spider-Man film series
 * Template:1966-1968 Batman television series
 * Template:1978-1987 Superman film series

Here are the examples:, ,

-5- (talk) 20:40, 18 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Frankly no. The idea is for the navbox to not have recursive links. Adding the pipe leaves the links live on the target pages. - J Greb (talk) 21:29, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

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ANI
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