User talk:JackSchmidt/Archives/2008/04

Presentations and Hurwitz groups
Thank you for your offer of more sources and more information on Hurwitz groups and presentations. Yes, I would be interested. I did not know of a convention about standard presentaions. I have not yet found the webpage about it.

My primary purpose behind pursuing the Hurwitz groups and presentations has been to find good ways to investigate the first Janko group (order 175560). One way might be to be map triangles in a (2,3,7) tessellation onto a finite connected set of triangles.

The Wilson website gives a standard presentation for J1 with a commutator of order 19. Today I found a website http://web.mat.bham.ac.uk/J.N.Bray/res.html#spor where a presentation for J1 has a commutator of order 11 and there is a 5th fairly complicated relator. Neither presentaion uses the 2 matrices in G2(11) given in the Wikipedia article.

I classified the all order 3-2 pairs in the simple groups of orders 168 and 504. I want to do the same for J1. Some of that should be derivable from the list of maximal subgroups of J1.

Permutation representations have a way of hiding what relations are needed for defining a group. Same probably goes for matrix representations. Scott Tillinghast, Houston TX (talk) 03:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Monster diagram
I was thinking of how Wilson's website lists 10 or 11 subquotients of the Monster, without intervening sporadic groups. Probably there are other such inclusions by smaller sporadic groups. Best not to show these, I think, for sake of clarity.

Yes, the O'Nan group (and J1) could be moved to where it can have a line going down to M11 as well as J1

I checked some other relations against Wilson's website. HN contains M12 directly, but not M22. HN does contain M22 through HS. Fi23 contains both Fi22 and M23, not just through other sporadic groups. Scott Tillinghast, Houston TX (talk) 20:17, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

There are certainly some multiple occurrences of simple groups inside others with different intervening groups. For example M12 occurs as a subgroup of M24, which occurs as a subgroup of Co1. The central extension 2.M12 occurs as a subgroup of Co1, in a maximal subgroup that includes the Sylow 3-subgroup. May best be omitted from the diagram. Scott Tillinghast, Houston TX (talk) 20:53, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Endomorphism external links and conflict of interest edits
Thanks for the pointers to the guidelines on external links and conflict of interest. I'm learning quite a bit about becoming a Wikipedia editor and appreciate your help. I've reviewed these two guideline documents and, although the guidelines are clearly stated, there appears to be a fair amount of room for interpretation and case-by-case judgement. In my opinion the edits I made to the Endomorphism page do not violate the external links guidelines. Both the links to my Ph.D. dissertation and the Endo software laboratory download seem to satisfy section 3.1 "What should be linked" and do not satisfy the criteria in section 4 "Links normally to be avoided".

However, the link to my personal website for the on-line version of the Ph.D. dissertation does seem to violate the guidelines on conflict of interest in the external links document:

"You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent, even if the guidelines otherwise imply that it should be linked. If the link is to a relevant and informative site that should otherwise be included, please consider mentioning it on the talk page and let neutral and independent Wikipedia editors decide whether to add it"

The download and manual pages links I provided for the Endo software laboratory do not seem to violate either the external links or conflict of interest guidelines as the external links are not to my personal website but to an extensive download area of open source software packages. Further, the endo software and mathrec package is released under an open source license and freely redistributable so I do not profit in any way thereby avoiding the conflict of interest in the "Financial" section. Further, the conflict of interest guidelines state: "Editing in an area in which you have professional or academic expertise is not, in itself, a conflict of interest. Using material you yourself have written or published is allowed within reason, but only if it is notable and conforms to the content policies"

So, the only real problem I see is the link to my Ph.D. dissertation which happens to reside on my personal website. I could reference the copy archived at the University of California at Santa Cruz library but the on-line version is quite a bit more convenient than physically travelling to Santa Cruz.

I am quite willing to abide by community consensus and standards on these issues. I really don't care if people visit my website, I'd just like to make the research software and dissertation research available to others. So, what would you suggest ? Should I present this discussion on the Endomorphism discussion page or somehow involve others ?

Again, thanks and sorry for the long-winded post. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctorfree (talk • contribs) 23:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I moved this thread to Talk:Endomorphism. If you care to respond, please do so there. Ronald Joe Record (talk) 00:46, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Redlinks in disambig
Jack, Thanks for the note about the redlink. The IP address had made a vandalism entry on a page that I have been working on so I went back through its history and for the first time did a couple of undo edits. As a beginner at Wikipedia its good to hear someone agree with your edits. Captain-tucker (talk) 01:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC)