User talk:Jack forbes (renamed)/Archive 2

Welcome Back, Jack
You've been missed. Also, I've reformed my habits, in the time you've been absent. GoodDay (talk) 22:13, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks GoodDay. When you say reformed, I hope you haven't been misbehaving, those Reform schools can be tough. Jack forbes (talk) 23:00, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm no longer pushing to have constituent country in the UK & it's 4 parts articles. GoodDay (talk) 20:02, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

User: Henry V of England
Hiya Jack. Your posts was deleted by Henry & I'm not sure why. GoodDay (talk) 23:59, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That's alright GoodDay. I was actually laughing when you told him you thought English wasn't his first language. I had a wee idea in my head that it might be, which made it even funnier. I wasn't surprised when he asked what was wrong with his English. Sorry GoodDay, I haven't had a laugh in a wee while. Jack forbes (talk) 00:10, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Great to see ya back in Wiki-land. GoodDay (talk) 00:06, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, good to be back. I doubt I'll be back on a regular basis though. Jack forbes (talk) 00:10, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Ireland naming question
You are receiving this message because you have previously posted at a Ireland naming related discussion. Per Requests for arbitration/Ireland article names, a procedure has been developed at WikiProject Ireland Collaboration, and the project is now taking statements. Before creating or replying to a statement please consider the statement process, the problems and current statements. GnevinAWB (talk) 18:02, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Scotland
Hi, Jack. What I was concerned with was getting something in the infobox that was sustainable and verifiable. By removing the PM was just going to drum up a bit of edit warring. But the discussion was well worthwhile in airing a legitimate point of view. Bill Reid | (talk) 17:36, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'd rather have PM Gordon Brown deleted from all 4 UK countries articles Infoboxes. However, until England creates its own administrative apparatus, they'll be resistance to deletion. GoodDay (talk) 15:21, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree GoodDay. As I have mentioned though the England infobox can be sorted. Jack forbes (talk) 15:30, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That's acceptable. GoodDay (talk) 15:32, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Have to tell you guys, England has a parliament - its called Westminster. It legislates England only legislation as well as UK legislation hence the who-haa regarding Scottish MP's voting on English only legislation.  Just as Westminster has retained the right to legislate in Scotland. -Bill Reid | (talk) 19:09, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Westminster is the UK parliament. There is no such thing as an English Parliament. Just because it legislates for England doesn't make it English. The UK Parliament is also not Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish. Jack forbes (talk) 20:34, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes of course Westminster is the parliament of the UK but it also legislates solely for England so acts as the English parliament otherwise no laws would be created for England. Until 10 years ago there was no need for separate institutions where the Scottish Grand Committee of the Commons legislated laws for Scotland. So Westminster has had to adapt to cater for England's needs.  It legislates for England solely and for the rest of the UK seperately.  But if a legislature legislates for one country seperately then it is it's parliament, irrespective of what its called.   Westminster legislates EU directives for the entire UK as well as over the very substantial retained powers that affect Scotland&mdash;it has, up to 2007, already enacted 88 pieces of legislation that were devolved areas as far as Scotland were concerned displaying its powers to do so (with Scotland's acquiesence of course).  According to David Cameron, if the Tories get into power, the West Lothian question is going to be addressed barring Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish constituency MPs from voting on English only matters, thus at that point Westminster will not only be acting as the English parliament it will be the de facto English parliament. --Bill Reid | (talk) 19:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry Bill, I'm not so dim that I don't know what you are talking about, but c'mon, I have never heard it referred to as an English Parliament. The only reason they legislate for England only is because devolution was voted for and they have no other choice. If English people want their own parliament (and why not) they should be given the opportunity to vote for one. Until then, policies set for England only by the UK parliament is just that, a UK parliament decision, not an English one. If Cameron get's into a position (which I doubt) to carry out his promise then I grant you, it will be an English Parliament within the UK Parliament in all but name, and if they were honest they would officially call it that. Until that happens there is no English Parliament de facto or otherwise. Jack forbes (talk) 02:05, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry Jack, didn't mean to come across as patronising - certainly wasn't my intention. I'll leave it there. --Bill Reid | (talk) 09:14, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * And I didn't intend to come across as touchy. No hard feelings, I hope. Jack forbes (talk) 09:58, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No, none at all. Cheers. Bill Reid | (talk) 16:12, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Good to hear it. Cheers. Jack forbes (talk) 16:20, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Scotland


At least the positions are being clarified - and, from a personal perspective, I found myself agreeing with BritishWatcher which was a novel position for me!

Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 22:37, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Henry VI
Hello and gooday.you are right Queen Victoria was called victoria I of the united kingdom but when henry VI succeded to the throne of france is it not the same as the title Henry II of france.--HENRY V OF ENGLAND (talk) 21:25, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Scotland footnotes
The cheek of it! No, good point, I'll do it now. I've neglected Scotland recently; I only really pay it much attention when it pops up on my watchlist ;-)

Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 15:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * ...and done! I really don't mind what people call me - I have a note on my user page that basically says "don't call me Geraldine but I won't mind if you do", but it's hidden/collapsed. (I'd prefer not to be called Geraldine because it's not my name, but I suppose that applies to most names!) I've suggested "TFOWR" as the most logical, but I suspect my idea of logical may differ from other people's idea of logical...!
 * Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 16:03, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

IPs refusing to register
As seen at the Ireland Collaboration Project (and similiar situations at the British Isles past discussions). Very involved IPs join in the debates & steadfastly refuse to create an account. If it's the same person (or people)? they'll never agree to register in. GoodDay (talk) 16:52, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually agree that ip's should be forced to create an account, but nothing can be done while the rules say they don't have to. Jack forbes (talk) 16:59, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 'Tis true, nothing can be done about it. I've managed though, to have my own protest. IPs are not allowed to post at my UserPage unless they register in. GoodDay (talk) 17:08, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
Thank you for your principled comments and the very relevant and eloquent points you made during the recent discussions concerning issues raised in the article of Greece. Take care. Tasos (Dr.K. logos 23:06, 31 March 2009 (UTC))
 * Your welcome. Jack forbes (talk) 23:09, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikibreak
Hi Jack

I notice you're taking another Wikibreak - I hope all's well, and if not then I hope things improve.

Haste ye back!

Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 19:40, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Return as soon as possible, Jack. GoodDay (talk) 16:21, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, we miss you.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:43, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks guys, everything is hunky dory. I just popped back with a few comments here and there and I'll see you all later. I keep having to say to myself, take a break, take a break. Addictive this place, isn't it? Jack forbes (talk) 07:26, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for welcoming my daughter. It's not likely that we'll ever end up editing the same articles here, seeing as she has vastly different interests to mine. Anyway, thank you and let me add that it's nice to have you back.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:17, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's kind of a shame your not both interested in the same subjects. Imagine, the first mother and daughter edit war. Jack forbes (talk) 08:40, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * She and I have enough domestic wars as it is; an edit war would be too much to handle. I can see it now: us arguing over whether Zack Efron was spelled Zac or Zack!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:15, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hehe, domestic wars, been there and done it Jeanne. Looking at your photo, apart from being a good looking lassie you look and sound as though your far too clever to get involved in any edit war with your daughter. I'm sure she would win it anyway. ;) Jack forbes (talk) 23:59, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the compliment. Yes, my daughter always wins every argument we have.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:22, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Notification
You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Arbitration/Requests/Case and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.

Thanks,--Yannismarou (talk) 04:10, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Macedonia
Things sure would be easier, if Greece would re-name its province. GoodDay (talk) 15:45, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't see that happening. Don't forget, Greek Macedonia is the original Macedonia of Alexander the Great. I actually don't care too much what they call the Rebublic of Macedonia, it's the actions of one admin changing it then locking his version I disagree with. He` did this unilaterally without consensus and even without anyone on either side asking for it. In my opinion he misused his admin powers to change it to his preferred version but that is not my decision. You should have a look at the request for arbcom page to see some of the discussions. Anyway, that's that. How are you getting on GoodDay? Jack forbes (talk) 15:57, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Imagine if the Administrator moved the Republic of Ireland article? Then we would really have fireworks. I'll peek at the RfArb tomorrow (as I'm signing out, for the day). PS: I'm doing great. GoodDay (talk) 16:02, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Will this decision have an effect on the Republic of Ireland article? It may do as it will set a precedent all over wikipedia, then the fun will begin. Jack forbes (talk) 16:06, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. Perhaps the eventual solution for the Ireland naming dispute will be the precedent. GoodDay (talk) 14:59, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Forgive my ignorance but what exactly is the issue with Macedonia? Aren't Macedonians ethnically Greek? Or are they closer to Albanians genetically?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:02, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe the inhabitants of Macedonia are south slavs while the population of Macedonia (Greece) are indeed ethnically Greek. This is not the issue though. The drama came around because an admin who has been heavily involved in the Greek and Republic of Macedonia debates changed the name of the article from Republic of Macedonia to Macedonia without any prior discussion or consensus and locked the article immediately after. In fact, there was no one asking for the change to be made. I hate to see anyone getting into trouble but I think he may ultimately get his knuckles rapped for abusing his admin tools. Jack forbes (talk) 15:24, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * When dealing with the Balkans one has to tread very carefully indeed. I think I'd prefer to walk in military jackboots across a thinly-covered icy lake than get into a Balkans-related debate. The British Isles talk page is dodgy enough.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:10, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Macedonia 2
An Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Macedonia 2/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Macedonia 2/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, ——  nix eagle email me 03:45, 22 April 2009 (UTC)


 * No problem. I was just wondering where they came up with the idea that I said something I know I hadn't. John Carter (talk) 22:51, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, up until I was running for adminship the name was User:Warlordjohncarter. Yep, you got the source right. You're like only the fifth person who seems to have thought of him. I am looking forward to seeing what the upcoming Pixar movie looks like. I hope they don't screw it up too bad. John Carter (talk) 23:06, 22 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Jack, I don't think I saw you state this on the workshop of the arbitration. ChrisO recently said "all that oppose are Greeks" more or less. Please restate that there if you want to. Shadowmorph (talk) 13:02, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

North Sea Oil
Hello Jack. Noticed your question to User:BritishWatcher about the redrawing of boundaries to prevent an independent Scotland getting its hands on the oil. Not a great surprise, is it? I seem to remember (though I was in my teens at the time) that it was quite widely known. The English establishment can be proper bastards when they want to be! Surprised they didn't try to get Powys switched from Wales to England too, so they could prevent the Welsh having the water. As a Northerner (that's Northern England just to make it clear) I've got no more love for the English establishment than you Scots or the Welsh have. Skinsmoke (talk) 00:37, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello Skinsmoke. It wasn't actually widely known, only widely suspected that they might try such a thing. When it came out recently and the British Government and civil service where questioned on it their reply was, we were only talking about it. Makes me feel so much better. Can you imagine the discussions that would go on behind closed doors if the polls showed Scotland in favour of Independence on the eve of a referendum? Jack forbes (talk) 06:31, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The Northern earls were always a thorn in the side of the English monarchy as is the case here. The Nevilles of Westmorland and the Percys of Northumberland had so much power that they were actually minor kings in the North.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:39, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to say, in my opinion the North of England have over the years been treated shabbily by the London Government. I use to visit London in the 70's when to be honest it was a bit of a dump. The amount of money that went in to sprucing the place up must be extraordinary (the oil helped of course) and yet they still want hundreds of millions to build more marvelous new stadiums. They even have a national lottery game where all the money goes to the London Olympics! Yours, a little bitterly, Jack forbes (talk) 08:52, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I also remember London having been pretty run-down in the late 1970s and early 1980s. As Joe Strummer said in London Calling: 'It ain't got no swing''.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:59, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * They have a lottery game to support the London Olympics? Oh yes, I do seem to remember them whingeing that nobody was buying tickets up here.  Shame! Skinsmoke (talk) 22:33, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Hiya Jack, noticed your discussion on the BI page. Why you give that WP:SPA the time of day is beyond me. Although I admire your patience. His/her arrogance and breathtaking hypocrisy is unbelievable. Is the tactic to allow him/her a wider platform to make a bigger prat of him/herself? If so, s/he doesn't seem to need any help. I can't think of a single editor who has caused more disruption on Wikipedia and not been banned. Daicaregos (talk) 22:52, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL. Your right, he doesn't need any help but sometimes a little helping hand does no harm. I also find answering him with a smile or a wink helps to stress the nonsense he spouts. In saying all that you have a point, perhaps in future I shall allow him to spout without reply. Jack forbes (talk) 23:01, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You could be right. Although, sometimes I wonder if s/he is for real. Perhaps his/her collective ramblings will make a book one day, along the lines of the Henry Root Letters. ;) Daicaregos (talk) 09:07, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

==Ownership of articles==
 * That is another major problem here at Wikipedia. So many editors when they create or begin to edit certain articles assume a proprietory attitude towards them, and resent others who do have the right to edit and improve any articles which have been submitted to Wikipedia. In point of fact, Jack, I welcome editors who come along and edit the articles I created for Wikipedia. Honestly, I only added the lead to Henry's article to help him out, not to take over the entire article.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:41, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * He should also look at the articles you have created and realise any advice you give will generally be good advice. Kudos to him for creating the article and while letting it go out of his complete control may be a hard thing for him to do he will eventually realise that "his" article will improve with input from other editors. Jack forbes (talk) 09:08, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It is an ambitious first article, and as such he should welcome help from others, as our aim is to upgrade it to Wikipedia standards. That way, he can take pride in a fine article that he created.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:38, 2 May 2009 (UTC)




 * I finished the sub-category on the English regency and I cut back and removed references.--HENRY V OF ENGLAND (talk) 04:13, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You'll be missed here, Jack. Come back soon, and take care.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:57, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You take care too Jeanne and I'll see you in three or four weeks. Signing off now, see you later alligator. Jack forbes (talk) 02:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, Jack. Enjoy your break. See ya when you get back. GoodDay and I will hold the fort in your absence.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:52, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Virgin page

 * Welcome back, Jack. I just could not resist the temptation to deflower this virginal white page.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Does this mean we have to be wed? I can't have my reputation sullied you know. Jack forbes (talk) 17:28, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, but surely it's far better for one's reputation to be sullied than one's talk page, no?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:32, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Alas, my reputation was sullied many moons ago, making my prospects of marrying above myself exceedingly slim. As for my talk page, sully away Jeanne. Jack forbes (talk) 17:40, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok Jack, I promise I'll be gentle, but it always hurts the first time. "Don't Worry, Baby".....--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

That was easy, what happens next? Do we have a cigarette? Smokin!. Jack forbes (talk) 18:36, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, we put on a Beach Boys record.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Why do people have a cigarette after sex? I'd prefer having more sex. GoodDay (talk) 16:07, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I much prefer listening to the Beach Boys afterwards. I just love Dennis Wilson's drumming.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:11, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * More sex, is much more enjoyble, IMO. GoodDay (talk) 16:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, OK if you say so....I remain unconvinced as to its pleasure conquering that glimpse of heaven-on-earth which derives from the sheer joy of listening to the sublime sounds of The Beach Boys-their choirboy harmonies and Dennis Wilson's throbbing drum beats.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Combine the two. Sex while listening to the music. GoodDay (talk) 16:33, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:45, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Jack, differing opinions and humility can go hand in hand. Thank you for your moral support. Not that I seek to oppose your views, but I don't even fully know them, considering the brief time in which we have chatted. You can state where you stand, if you wish. I don't believe I've been particularly against you, but mindful of how, in one instance, it appeared like there was some contrived "Gaelic alliance" that stimulated a bit of your sympathy for the Irish position as it has been described. In real history, "Gaelic alliance" is considered a myth and only in the realm of language nazis does it have any real currency. Much of recent history was an Anglo-French (and Irish) state allied by Portugal, vs a Scottish state allied by France and Castile. I do not believe in alignment based upon language, but it appears to have influenced your judgment. Of course, this was merely me connecting the dots and trying to figure out your take in this. It was only yesterday that John Knox was thundering to convert the Irish on par with Tudor policy. If you don't like Paisley, that's unique, for I don't either, but for different reasons. You may rather have the "cringe", choosing to lobby these Irish for your belief in a common cause that it was the English who started this crap, even though it was the Welsh element. I well realize middle ages grievances against the English, such as "remember Berwick!", but since then, both have looted Ireland in the name of Britain, at the behest of the Tudors. I am against this, because of my personal ties to the Old English of Ireland in ideology and convention. In effect, it is more true that both England and Ireland have been debased by the same political process. You can claim victim status if you wish, but it certainly isn't true. Jimmy VI turned Ireland into your cash cow, as Harry VIII did for the Welsh with respect to England. Don't blame the English for any of this fallout. Quot homines tot sententiae: suo quoique mos. (talk) 01:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Wide awake

 * You still asleep, man?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Wide awake, Jeanne. Jack forbes (talk) 14:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, so you fancy a game of chess, then? I absolutely adore chess, however, I haven't played it since the Battle of Bosworth, seeing as nobody here plays it; they all play boring card games. Dull city.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I was taught chess by my dad when I was four years old, he must have thought I was going to be a chess prodigy. Now, well now I would have trouble beating a four year old. Make a move if you want to Jeanne, no rush, a chess game can be dragged out for weeks. Jack forbes (talk) 14:48, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Or centuries. Did you ever read The Eight (novel)?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Never saw it, sounds like some chess game though. Did I tell you when I was five I taught an older guy who went on to be a schools champion? He never even gave me any credit! Such is life. Jack forbes (talk) 15:07, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Credit? He should have given you a bit of cash as well!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:12, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * On second thoughts, stuff the the credit, cash would have been more satisfying. Jack forbes (talk) 15:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I've recently been talking on the Ireland collaboration page and to be honest there are too many people who just won't budge from their positions, on either side. This debate has been going on at wiki since it began and no matter what happens it will always continue. When I first came to wiki I would see something on for example the Scotland page and think, hey, thats wrong, it should be changed. Now, although I'll throw in a comment or two, I more often than not think, why bother, it's not going to change the world. Jack forbes (talk) 15:25, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * As I've already said, go with the flow. If one were to make the wrong comment over on the Irish/British pages, the fanatics would come down on you screeching like harpies, and spitting out insults like machine gun fire.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:29, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hehe, I know. I was involved in a few screeching matches when I first joined. I saw that you were wondering where Matt Lewis was, well, our friend Matt and I were once involved in a screeching match. The language, I tell you, it would have made your hair curl. :) Jack forbes (talk) 15:33, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What was the screeching match over? A British/Irish issue? Do tell me some of the words which were used. Come on, pretty please. I'm tired of having lank hair.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * More like British/Irish/Scottish/Welsh issues. Jeanne, I could never repeat such words in front of a lady, and you suit straight hair anyway. Of course, I'm now one of the coolest and calmest dudes on wikipedia you could wish to meet. Jack forbes (talk) 15:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Keeping one's cool is my second silver rule of Wikipedia survival.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, Jeanne. I know your waiting for me to ask. What's your first? Jack forbes (talk) 16:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * My silver rules are listed here:User:Jeanne boleyn--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:12, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The British/Irish disputes are mind-benders. GoodDay (talk) 23:08, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep. I reckon if you take it too seriously for too long it would drive you nuts. Gotta ask GoodDay, how did the tattie picking go? Did a bit of grape picking myself many moons ago, not a good idea if you suffer from back aches. Jack forbes (talk) 23:12, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Tatties was a breeze (as was the sand-dust). GoodDay (talk) 23:15, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sand dust? Jack forbes (talk) 23:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Heavy winds in the potato fields. I should say sand-storms. GoodDay (talk) 23:20, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * A bit of heavy labor certainly helps you sleep at night. Did it for quite a few years myself, then worked with the old grey cells since. All that does is give me a headache. Jack forbes (talk) 23:26, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It take energy & time, to be sure. PS: See ya tomorrow. GoodDay (talk) 23:31, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, see you tomorrow GoodDay. Jack forbes (talk) 23:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I must confess that the only things I've ever picked from the ground have been flowers, blades of grass, and dyed Easter eggs. I have shelled peas, however (guess that's not the same thing as picking potatoes, oops.) Anyroad, hurry back to us so that we can get this show on the road.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:53, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

'''Hi guys. I have decided to fully retire from Wikipedia as I have much to do in real life and thought making a clean break would be best, rather than taking breaks every couple of weeks. It's nothing to do with my health (I'm fit as a fiddle) or any other problems. I will miss those I consider friends on wiki and wish them and everyone all the best. It's been fun, cheers. Oh, and Jeanne, I'm sorry I never had a chance to play you at chess.''' Jack forbes (talk) 17:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Please reconsider

 * Jack, I really wish you would reconsider your decision. Why not do what GoodDay is doing and limit yourself to a couple of hours each day? I will miss you a lot. Please come back.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:48, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Jack, was it something I said? is my breath bad? Try my method, roughly 2-hrs on Wikipedia, daily. Are you afraid you're becoming a Wiki-junkie? finding yourself continously finding spelling errors & such in books & signs you read? I hope you reconsider. GoodDay (talk) 12:46, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks guys for your comments. I definately need to take at least a couple of months out, then after that I may do as you have suggested and come back for a couple of hours a day. GoodDay, if I smelt your breath all the way from PEI it really would have been bad. :) If I do come back in a couple of month the two of you will be the first to know. Logging out now. Take care guys. Jack forbes (talk) 20:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * .Well, I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do. You will be missed here at Wikipedia. I honestly hope you will ultimately decide to return, as you are an excellent editor and a kind person. Take care, Jack.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:00, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * We await your return. GoodDay (talk) 14:36, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * We are waiting.Its not long now I hope.--HENRY V OF ENGLAND (talk) 01:43, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I wish I could make a clean break, but recidivism is in my blood. I often try to be bold and inclusionist of broader NPOV than articles usually canvas, because I have read a lot that has challenged my own ignorance, going back to more material on the same subjects, over and over again, to improve the breadth of my own knowledge and not have it formed merely by one competing POV, even if I do treasure personal perspective for its own sake, as my mind is not merely a tool for others to control with propagandas of polemics and apologetics. What a world it would be, if we could all learn a thing or two from one another, in a matter of fact way, without snide remarks to demoralize and terrorize others. All the years I spent looking up to other people to teach me something, is absent from the outlooks of so many people here, it's not funny in the slightest. So many academics in the real world, have so much disdain for Wikipedia. Don't say it's merely due to the factor of money vs GFDL. I may not be professional, but I'm hardly a novice in certain studies. I don't claim omniscience or omnipotence on Wikipedia, so I guess I'm not a member of the Cabal, going around to revert other, random people's edits for some kind of winning streak and taking score. This is purely supposed to be a way to expand one's mind on academic interests. My counselor at school told me that I should be a "lifelong student" and I really am, but my contributions based upon that, are throw aways, apparently. I'm just never good enough, especially when I vividly describe the actions and motives of those who are tendentious editors that wikilawyer and wikistalk to achieve their goals, always gaming the system and disrupting articles everywhere in the pursuit of their own private internet glories, justified by Ayn Rand. How could anybody be duped into the righteousness of this project? After all, the Wikimedia Foundation was/is financed by a pornographic web ring called Bomis. Catterick (talk) 11:16, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello Jack, I saw your comment on Snowded's talk page. It was nice to see you're ok. Just letting you know that GoodDay and I have started a club on my talk page, inviting all the fun Wikipedia editors to come and leave a witty, amusing or informative comment. Gotta do something to liven up Wikipedia!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:12, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Jeanne. I just popped in and out to give Snowded my support for his RFA. You can be sure though that when/if I do come back I shall fill out all the relevant application forms to join your club. If I do come back I'll see you in a couple of months. Jack forbes (talk) 12:38, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The bouncers will never toss you out, Jack. You need not bother with application forms either, just your usual witty comments will suffice to gain you entry. --Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Macedonia 2
This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above.
 * All editors on Macedonia-related articles are directed to get the advice of neutral parties via means such as outside opinions and Geopolitical ethnic and religious conflicts noticeboard (WP:ECCN), especially since there are significant problems in reaching consensus.
 * All articles related to Macedonia (defined as any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to Macedonia, Macedonia nationalism, Greece related articles that mention Macedonia, and other articles in which how Macedonia will be referred to is an issue) fall under 1RR whenever the dispute over naming is concerned. Editors enforcing a case where a binding Stalemate resolution has been found are exempt from 1RR.
 * The following users have been banned from Wikipedia : one year, one year, and six months.
 * The following users have been topic-banned from Macedonia-related articles and their talk pages, as defined in All related articles under 1RR: indefinitely, indefinitely, one year and, one year.
 * The Committee takes note that has resigned his administrator status while this case was pending, but also notes that he is desysopped as a result of the above case. ChrisO may obtain the tools back via the usual means or by request to the Arbitration Committee.
 * is strongly admonished for displaying a long pattern of incivil, rude, offensive, and insulting behavior towards other editors and failure to address the community's concerns in this regard. Because of this Future Perfect at Sunrise is subject to an editing restriction for one year, and is desysopped for three months as a consequence of poor user conduct and misuse of administrative tools. After three months, his administrator access will be automatically restored.
 * Single-purpose accounts are strongly advised to edit in accordance with WP:SPA and other Wikipedia policies. Diversifying one's topics of interest is also encouraged.
 * Abuse filter 119, as currently configured, logs all changes involving the word "Macedonia" but does not block any edits. The community is strongly advised to consider adding a new abuse filter criterion; any instances of changing the word "Macedonia" to "FYROM" (the five-letter acronym, not the full phrase) shall be prevented.
 * Within seven days of the closure of this case, a discussion is to be opened to consider the preferred current and historical names for the four entities known as Macedonia. The discussion will end one month after it is opened.


 * On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Tiptoety  talk 21:38, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Discuss this

Harassment
Brought from my talk,

I have never gone out my way to harass anyone in my life, whether that's here on in real life. I have only given my honest opinion on the matter. My honest opinion is that they should get over it as any person should and not drag it out to be discussed all over wikipedia.User:Jack forbes|Jack forbes 00:26, 4 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I would say that saying to someone..come on I know your on line, is verging on harrasing them. I would say diving in with such comments is actually adding to the stress. They are adults and seem to be moving along towards some kind of agreement. (Off2riorob (talk) 00:34, 4 July 2009 (UTC))
 * It could be if you hadn't jumped in with your comment they may have realised how childish it had become. We will never know now that you have. Jack forbes (talk) 00:38, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, could of, would of and should of. Again, you see childish and I see two people striving towards maturity. (Off2riorob (talk) 00:42, 4 July 2009 (UTC))
 * Striving towards maturity? They shouldn't even be here if there not mature enough. Look, I stepped in trying to be honest with them and trying to help, not harass them. If you think otherwise, fine, your wrong, but that's your opinion. Jack forbes (talk) 00:47, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Maturity is a goal for us all.

Wrong! can I not not just be mistaken? (Off2riorob (talk) 00:50, 4 July 2009 (UTC))
 * Of course you can be mistaken, I'm mistaken all the time. :) Jack forbes (talk) 00:57, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, lets take a step back, shake hands and agree that we are both mistaken. (Off2riorob (talk) 01:00, 4 July 2009 (UTC))
 * Agreed. Now, that's two people settling their differences in a mature manner and being friends for life. Now, we only have to convince the rest of wikipedia to do the same thing. Jack forbes (talk) 01:07, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you
I woke up this morning to find your lovely barnstar with its kind message. Jack, thank you so much, it has really made my day. I think you merit one yourself. Thanks again!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 03:40, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Template: English, Scottish and British monarchs
I'm perplexed by your objections. GoodDay (talk) 22:21, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * If you truly believe the Pictish Kings were the predecessors of the British Monarchy then there is no point discussing it further. I am stressed out in real life at the moment and shouldn't really be online, so I'm dropping my objections and letting people do as they wish without interference from me. Jack forbes (talk) 22:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope to see you back soon. Get well, Jack. GoodDay (talk) 23:21, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep, we've agreed to keep the 3 monarchies in 3 seperate Templates. GoodDay (talk) 23:48, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thought you'd gone to your bed. I should have one of those stress charts you see on some editors user pages. When it hits a certain level it's time to have a break. If I had one now it would be sitting at "nice and relaxed". Jack forbes (talk) 23:55, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I was away for awhile, but decided to pop in for another half-hour (before hitting the sack). GoodDay (talk) 23:56, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I actually came back a couple of nights ago in response to someone saying I was obviously middle class. Bloody cheek, I had to tell them what was what. It could have turned into a Monty Python sketch. You know, the one where they outdo each other saying things like "You lived in a hole! you don't know how lucky you were! When I was a kid I had to live in a SHOE BOX!". Jack forbes (talk) 00:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The old joke-off contest. GoodDay (talk) 00:09, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Monty Python ... haha. Speaking of comedy, this whole thing reminded me very much of the charges to Berlin mentioned in Blackadder IV. All that ambitious effort and sacrifice, but in the end no change. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 00:15, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Luv that show. GoodDay (talk) 00:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Quite common on wiki. All sweat, blood, tears and breakdowns and no change. Jack forbes (talk) 00:20, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, a lesson the contributors to the Ireland discussion will have to learn for themselves. ;) Well, actually, I think they have a chance with the name of the state ... maybe an outside one, but a chance nonetheless. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk ) 00:39, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I think I would go along with Ireland (state). seems the most sensible and neutral choice. I know one thing, no matter the outcome it won't entirely stop the arguments, as I can see the side who don't get their way crying foul for some reason or other. Jack forbes (talk) 00:46, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Hello Jack! How's your summer?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, Jeanne. Sunny, wet, windy, cloudy, and that's just one day in Scotland. Other than the weather summer has been good. How are you, Jeanne? Jack forbes (talk) 19:05, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hot, sun-tanned, water-logged, and sorry to see September ruthlessly approaching.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:41, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I was all ready for a game of golf tomorrow. Forecast for tomorrow? Wind and rain. Arghh. I could always go to the course and play water polo. :( Jack forbes (talk) 17:54, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's hot here. Very hot.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:37, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Pope Adrian IV
Jumpers, you fix an editor's mistake & you're labeled a stalker for life (ha ha). GoodDay (talk) 19:32, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't take it personally, GoodDay. I think it's all a spillover from the disagreements on the Ireland collaboration page. I think there has been a wee bit of niggling going on from some of them. Jack forbes (talk) 19:37, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Even thought D48 has 'banned' me from his talk-page, I'll still be his buddy. GoodDay (talk) 19:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Life still goes on. Looks like the vote will be quite soon. I honestly thought the argument over the Ballot would still be going on this time next year. Jack forbes (talk) 19:49, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I reckon exhaustion was a factor (in the Ballot dispute's conclusion). GoodDay (talk) 19:51, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Status Quo
Hi Jack,

Like them or lothe them there can be no doubt that Status Quo has been one of the most influential bands in the UK. It's world wide sales may be less than that of other bands but it never really broke into the US market - its sales in just the UK alone would certainly exceed that of other bands with higher world wide sales. It is worth reading Quo Facts to see what they have achieved! Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 23:35, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, Fishiehelper. I do remember Radio 1 banning them from their play list. Truth be told I neither loathe them or love them, although they are an easy target for criticism. I'm just wondering whether or not numerous more bands will be included in the article. I'll leave that for someone else to figure out. I really am off to my kip now. Cheers. Jack forbes (talk) 23:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 14:08, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Collaboration headaches
This much I know: nobody's gonna intimidate me from my vote, grrrr. GoodDay (talk) 22:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Sure is a lot of people easily intimidated by Sarah. Bunch of wooseys. Jack forbes (talk) 22:54, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There's alot of political tension behind the Final Poll. I wonder, will I be profiled as Cookie Monster? GoodDay (talk) 22:59, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You should have declared that before voting commenced! I have it on good authority that Cookie Monsters are barred from voting. I shall report this flagrant breaking of the rules. Jack forbes (talk) 23:02, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought the cookie crumbs would give me away. GoodDay (talk) 23:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Edit conflicts
I'm confort by your reassurances, should I be 'auto-blocked' again. GoodDay (talk) 20:18, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Me undesirable? I'm 'Don Juan', 'Casanova' & 'Grouch Marx' rolled up in one. I'm also very modest. GoodDay (talk) 20:27, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the 'barnstar' transfer. GoodDay (talk) 22:47, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Always glad to help. Jack forbes (talk) 22:48, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Collaboration
I'm sorry to see you give up hope, and sorry to see your vote deleted. -- Evertype·✆ 11:10, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, I deleted it last night due to frustration, although in the light of day I may reinstate it. I did say I was staying away but thought I would give it a last shot with BritishWatcher. I can't see editors flocking to the proposal we discussed last night, which tells me there is no mood for compromise. I hope I'm wrong. Jack forbes (talk) 11:19, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It is too late i think, i can not see how compromise is possible and unless theres a full compromise involving lots of people nothing can change. Supporters of F wont switch their vote if its going to result in E winning and even if only a few change it wont make too much difference with the current lead F has. It may be counter productive with the vote being more close resulting in more instability / dispute. BritishWatcher (talk) 11:27, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As one of your countrymen said "They think it's all over....it is now!. Jack forbes (talk) 19:50, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I've got to remember to control my humour at that page. There was already a complaint made to Masem's page. GoodDay (talk) 23:11, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Humours good, but you should be careful at times when people are stressed out. I wouldn't want you getting the chop chop. Jack forbes (talk) 23:20, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I shall try to be more careful. The Ireland naming Poll has certainly caused alot of tension. GoodDay (talk) 23:25, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Nice to see your vote. -- Evertype·✆ 23:54, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, thou has returnith thy vote. GoodDay (talk) 23:02, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * (Oh the grammar.) "Thou hast returned thy vote." -- Evertype·✆ 07:50, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thou, thine, thee, hast? Have we transported ourselves in time and space to Merry olde England? Jack forbes (talk) 14:37, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He started it. Anyway I like your vote. -- Evertype·✆ 20:33, 16 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I couldn't help myself. I laughed at the expression of the Medieval Times waitress in the movie The Cable Guy (starring Jim Carrey), when Chip Douglas spoke to her in that manner. GoodDay (talk) 21:00, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Forteviot find - Scottish media reports
Yes Jack, I found these (via Google News - an excellent tool): It is well worth searching with both Google Books and Google News (depending on how modern the topic is) when expanding articles. All the best. --Mais oui! (talk) 12:29, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * http://www.allmediascotland.com/articles/4449/13082009/davidson_helps_digs_dirt_on_grave_discovery
 * http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport-environment/tomb-reveals-secrets-of-a-4000-year-old-power-lord-1.822603#
 * http://www.bigissuescotland.com/news/view/177
 * http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/As-old-as--the.5544397.jp


 * I forgot to say Jack: if you see any noteworthy news items like this it is always worth considering adding a mention on this article:
 * 2009 in Scotland
 * Cheers. --Mais oui! (talk) 12:44, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello. I have provided sources for the important additions on the William Wallace article but I dont know how to edit correctly on Wikipedia so it looks messy. However it seems unfair to remove information which could indicate that sucha prominent Scottish figure spoke Gaelic. 92.235.178.44 (talk) 18:45, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Kenny MacAskill
Wowsers, I'm surprised 'that' article didn't get protection. I'm guessing he won't be winning any popularity contests for quite awhile. GoodDay (talk) 22:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You would be surprised GoodDay. Everyone I have spoken to in Scotland has agreed with his early release. Jack forbes (talk) 17:47, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * One positive thing to come out of all of this is many Americans probably understand Scotland is part of the United Kingdom now with its own government, its been gone over and over by their media so much. :) BritishWatcher (talk) 18:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree with MacAskill's action, but what's done is done. By the way, I hear there's a independance plebasite coming up in Scotland. GoodDay (talk) 19:51, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep! The referendum is due to take place in 2010. They were discussing in the Scottish Parliament today how the ballot paper should be presented with the unionist parties arguing the discussion on possible independence shouldn't be taking place till the world financial crisis is sorted. Well, they would. Jack forbes (talk) 20:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * What kinda government will an independant Scotland have? GoodDay (talk) 20:30, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I watched the debate today, the lib dems have nailed themselves to opposing the referendum, whilst they flip flop all the time i cant see them backing down from this. There will be no referendum in 2010, the majority of the Scottish parliament will reject the SNPs referendum bill. :) BritishWatcher (talk) 20:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe there will be a referendum in 2010. In saying that, if it is blocked in Parliament the SNP will be the majority party after the next elections. Actually, if it was postponed till then it will play into the hands of the SNP. Hehe. GoodDay, Scotland will have any kind of government they choose to vote for. As`we are mostly a socialist country then I imagine we will have a socialist government. The SNP are themselves left of centre. Jack forbes (talk) 20:45, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * As long as the lib dems stay firm theres no way there will be a referendum in 2010, their speeches today look as so they cant change their minds on this. How much this will help the SNP in 2 years time is questionable, if the SNP got a majority of votes and seats in the Scottish parliament then ofcourse there must be a referendum. but theres no justification for putting our entire country on the line in a single vote, just because a minority voted for the separatists, the majority voted for parties strongly opposed to a break up of the UK, by blocking the referendum they are living up to their commitment. BritishWatcher (talk) 21:22, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * BW, you wouldn't happen to be a unionist would you! You should have told me sooner. Like I said, in future elections the SNP will be the majority. The fact is whenever we have the referendum the Scottish people and only the Scottish people will choose. The rest of you will just have to sit back and watch I'm afraid. Jack forbes (talk) 21:29, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Holding a referendum wont resolve this even if unionists win by a strong majority. People will continue to push for independence and the SNP will seek to introduce a referendum any time they come into power again (if they come into power again). Quebec is the perfect example, where a couple of referendums were held and it solves nothing. 15+ years ago 49% of the people in Quebec voted for independence, yet its still part of Canada. No reliable poll shows majority support for independence in Scotland. BritishWatcher (talk) 21:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Ach, BW. I know you'll miss us when we go but we can always stay in touch. We'll only be next door if you need anything, you know, like maybe borrow a cup of oil or something. We're a generous lot up here. :) Jack forbes (talk) 21:37, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * lol BritishWatcher (talk) 21:42, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) I remember reading somewhere, that if Scotland chose to be an independant monarchy (like Sweden, Spain etc), they'd offer their crown to Princess Anne. -- GoodDay (talk) 20:40, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Nah. The Queen would still be the monarch just as she is in Canada and Australia. Jack forbes (talk) 20:46, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Scotland will become the 17th Commonwealth realm & will get a Governor-General. GoodDay (talk) 20:50, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * A governor-General. How wonderful! One day they will all start living in the 21st century. Jack forbes (talk) 21:01, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Ya'll should consider a republic. GoodDay (talk) 22:01, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I do GoodDay, I do. Have a wee look at this BBC interview where Salmond wipes the floor with a not very impartial bunch of nobodies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=556FEKoVd-w&feature=related Jack forbes (talk) 22:04, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Salmond for Prez of Scotland. GoodDay (talk) 22:10, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Holiday
Have a nice holiday, Jack, wherever it is you're off to.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:06, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks Jeanne. I wasn't actually off anywhere. I'll be taking more and more breaks like this in future

Hope you're back by mid-September, as the Ireland naming discussion 'might' be resolved by then. GoodDay (talk) 13:39, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll be around to see the result. Not that there is much doubt over it. Jack forbes (talk) 17:47, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

The Guy Who Blocked Vk
Jack, been away. Why not report this drone to ANI? Sarah777 (talk) 23:20, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I really can't be arsed Sarah. Anyway, from here on in I'll only be on for short periods of time and taking longer breaks. Jack forbes (talk) 17:47, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

List of (insert your choice here) people
You're sure to recognised, and added here (List of Scots), sooner or later, Jack. It's just a matter of time (and if you have enough tea). :-) Daicaregos (talk) 12:21, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I've gone right off my tea after the Scotland-Netherlands result. I think it's time for the hard stuff. Jack forbes (talk) 20:42, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Can I join you in that drink, Jack? I could do with a Jack Daniels and coke.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 04:27, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Help! My laptop is making funny whirring noises. I fear it has a very short lifespan. Bye bye laptop. Jack forbes (talk) 12:54, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh no! Call a computer technician quickly as WikiBlitz cannot afford to lose its head bartender. Who will mix my Jack Daniels-and-coke to perfection now?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:37, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

The Scotland 2010 referendum
Howdy Jack. What's the latest on the independance referendum? GoodDay (talk) 15:02, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The lib Dems are not exactly happy with the thought of a referendum, which means there is a strong possibility it won't happen in 2010. In my opinion that plays into the hands of the SNP as I believe the next election will put them into power as the majority party. They can then choose when the referendum can take place with a greater chance of victory. Jack forbes (talk) 15:31, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The next Parliamentary elections are scheduled for 2011. There's the possibility (of course) of the SNP minority government being defeated on a non-confidence vote, thus having the election earlier. GoodDay (talk) 15:39, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thankfully the Scottish parliament system with its Proportional representation means its very difficult for a party to form a majority government, Labour had a huge majority of votes in the first election in 1999, yet they still had no where enough seats to form a majority. Whilst i accept unless something changes the SNP is going to increase its seats in both westminster and the Scottish parliament.. it wont get the majority it needs.
 * Whilst im no fan of the lib dems and i wouldnt trust them on many things, their position on the referendum seems sound right now and it will be impossible for them to cave. We will have to wait and see how this impacts on the 2011 vote. BritishWatcher (talk) 15:46, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * At the moment we are buying time, not a chance the unionist parties will want to speed up the election by bringing the SNP down which would do more damage to the unionist parties than the SNP. BritishWatcher (talk) 15:46, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Your right there. It would be political suicide and only strengthen the SNP. Personally, I would advise them to go for it. ;) Jack forbes (talk) 16:07, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm thirsty
Hi Jack, how are you doing? I could do with one of your special concoctions: Jack Daniels-and-coke laced with a rich dose of humour!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:33, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

British Isles & Irish Sea
Yep, similiar articles with different levels of controversary. GoodDay (talk) 22:50, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Has there been controversy over the name Irish sea? Jack forbes (talk) 22:56, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I don't know. GoodDay (talk) 22:58, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Jack, I didn't mean you, it was 2 of the others', .) Tfz     13:40, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, I was hoping so, which is why I've just posted an explanation on your talk page. :) Jack forbes (talk) 13:45, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It was more Malleus Fatuorum, as he accused me and others of all sorts of things a couple of weeks ago which I've forgotton, and the editor who opened the thread, as it just seemed superfluous. I should mmob perhaps.) Tfz     14:03, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Tfz. I probably would mmob if I knew what it meant. ;) Jack forbes (talk) 14:13, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 'mmob' probably stands for "mind my own business", or something like that. Better not say much more, for I have been up at the local tonight. Sarah probably know the "Magic carpet"? :) 22:09, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Who said that?? Jack forbes (talk) 22:11, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, Tfz! Had a few have you? Be careful around wiki now. I once got blocked when I came home pissed, hardly remembered posting anything that night. Jack forbes (talk) 22:14, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it. Tfz    22:30, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Just don't do what Groucho Marx did. He shot an elephant in his pajamas & couldn't figure out how the elephant got into his pajams. GoodDay (talk) 22:42, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Must have been a tiny elephant, oh heck I like the old wit! Tfz     23:04, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Or a big Groucho. Jack forbes (talk) 23:06, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * More than likely a figment of his imagination. Or a mouse that had somehow escaped the clutches of my cat Tony.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:05, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Jack i respect your right to feel the way you do on these matters and ofcourse if the Scottish people, or Welsh people, or Northern Irish people or hell even the English people decide they want an end to the United Kingdom then their wishes must be respected and accepted.

I enjoy conversations with you and conversations with some other nationalists who i have very different views to. However you were right in your post, i can not for one second respect or have any admiration for your position and that of others. We can water the word down as much as we like but the bottom line is you seek the destruction of my country, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Separatism is the greatest threat to my country today, and sadly it is something the British government has not dealt with, but they certainly should. This certainly is not anti Scottish, how can wanting Scotland to remain part of my country be anti Scottish?

Anyway, you sould consider just taking a short break or restricting yourself to a few hours a day like GoodDay does. BritishWatcher (talk) 00:30, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Please don't go, Jack. All of us here have to put up with BS on occasion; one rather obnoxious editor even called me an uncultured Yank. And I am still here. You joined Wikipedia in the first place because you obviously enjoyed editing; well, nothing has changed except that some people are against you and your beliefs. However, if you leave, you will be giving up something you like being part of, and people like GoodDay, British Watcher, and myself, among others enjoy having you here with us. So why let others dictate your course of action? Don't let them triumph over you. Stay, please, pretty please. When it gets too stressful at Wikipedia, do what I do, go over to YouTube and watch some great music videos.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 04:27, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Please elaborate, Jack. Has something happened in the last few hrs (that I've missed) to push you into retirement? What's up? GoodDay (talk) 15:13, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Well i think he must of been thinking about it for some time, only thing i saw happen last night was he didnt like your British umbrella comment, and he hated my response to it but thats not enough to make someone retire. BritishWatcher (talk) 15:26, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Jack knows that if WP decides to keep using 'English, Scottish, Irish (for Northern Ireland) & Welsh, I won't protest about it. However, out of respect for his political views, I'll certainly use Scottish here. When referring to places like Edinburgh, I'll use Edinbugh, Scotland here, instead of Edinbugh, United Kingdom (which I'd use at your page BW; with your consent of course). GoodDay (talk) 15:36, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Hope to see ya back soon, Jack. I miss ya already. GoodDay (talk) 15:39, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey Jack. Don't let the bastards grind you down man! God knows we're outnumbered enough as it is.  If enough sane people get involved, the nationalist extremists will just get pushed to the side.  --HighKing (talk) 18:59, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I gave someone advice recently, some really good advice. I told him to be careful when coming home from the pub not to post something he may regret in the morning. Well, I came home last night after drinking far too much of this and posted several things. The only thing I regret posting is the retired template. As for the rest, I am pissed off at those who would denegrate my country Scotland by implying it is just some little area in the United Kingdom when history tells you otherwise and the future will certainly tell you otherwise. I'm going to remove the retired notice but I can't help feeling that this all appears to look a lot like a silly bit of melodrama. I can assure you it was not intended that way. They say when you are drunk your true colours come out so maybe I should stay retired, but my sober self says otherwise, so here I am. Jack forbes (talk) 20:07, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That's the spirit, Jack. GoodDay (talk) 20:21, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm now going on the break I promised myself. Jack forbes (talk) 22:16, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * See ya, when ya get back. GoodDay (talk) 22:24, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep. Don't stay away too long - we need you around here. Sarah777 (talk) 23:49, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I am of the opinion that one shouldn't make edits when one is: 1. Drunk or hungover as a result of the former. 2. Sleepy or suffering from jetlag. 3. Hungry. 4. Is running late and only has a few minutes in which to edit. 5. Has just had a fight with one's partner or boss. 6. Is having a bad-hair day. Jack, you should read the wee composition I made about Wikipedians on my user subpage. Here it is: User:Jeanne boleyn/Wikipedians and their historical counterparts--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:06, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Standing up to the British nationalists is disheartening enough. And that's with you involved, Jack. Without you, well ... references to Scotland and Scottish would disappear from all over Wikipedia and everyone would be as misinformed as some Canadians, etc (pretend ?) to be. Glad to hear it was just the drink talking - gave me quite a fright. Hope you gave a few more of the Munros what for. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 11:01, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "..as some Canadians.."? he he. GoodDay (talk) 17:23, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

M9 motorway (Scotland)
Keep an eye on this one Jack as I suspect some Sasanachs  intend to relegate it to M9 motorway (Great Britain); ditto M8 (Scotland). Sarah777 (talk) 19:18, 3 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Of course if there was an Independent Scotland they'd join the growing list of M1s and M2s around the world! Sarah777 (talk) 19:20, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, most of them try and relegate Scotland to an insignificant region of the UK. Relegating a Scottish motorway is just small fry for them. I'm off tomorrow morning to try and add to my munro list, so won't be around for a few days. I'll check it out when I return. You know, I try and defend not just Scotland on wikipedia, I also like to chip in to defend Ireland and Wales. There is so much British POV connected to those articles it makes me cringe. Don't get me wrong, if someone wants to self identify as British that's their choice, it's when they push their Britishness down our throats and tell us our nationality can not be Scottish/Welsh that makes my blood boil. Your own country, an independent country, is still being told on wiki that for example, your culture is no different from theirs (meaning: your British really). You are also thought odd that you object to the name British Isles, yes, very odd that, isn't it! It's just a shame it wasn't called the Greater German Isles. The fun that would be had, eh! Look at the infobox's of the Scottish and Welsh articles where they insist on the British Prime Minister being included, then look at the US States, Australian States and numerous others. They don't feel the need to include their President/Prime Minister. Probably because the article is not about the United States/Australia. One editor was furious when the Scottish National party was included in the lede. He then said he had calmed down a little on discovering the SNP article had received no more hits than previously. This is what we have to put up with, people arguing against edits because it doesn't jibe with their political views. Unless something is done higher up to change the view that US and British nationalism is somehow different and better than Irish, Scottish or Welsh nationalism then all is lost. The amount of times I've seen statements saying Nationalism is the bane of wikipedia is amazing. It's only the one type of Nationalism they hate, not their own. Ahem, anyway, I'll have a look at the motorways articles when I return. Cheers, Sarah. Jack forbes (talk) 22:49, 3 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I've come here from Sarah777's talk page which I'm watching quite a bit at the moment as a result of trying to sort the roads mess out. Firsty I'll get it out in the open - I am English and probably identify as British first, then English.  Anyway I, and I think many other "English" editors, would support naming this motorway M9 motorway (Great Britain) (and similarly for the M8) not because of any political reason but purely and simply because the numbering system in use covers the whole of Great Britain and so this seems the most logical way to disambiguate, especially as it solves the M4/M48 problem (what would we call them, if "England and Wales" how would we ever agree which to put first).  If you disagree with this I'd be interested in your reasoning.  I'd hope that, at the least, you can see how this reasoning isn't political.  As I've recently posted on Sarah777's page I'd agree with you however that there are some editors that are British (or in this case English) POV pushing but please don't assume that everyone that happens to coincidently hold the same view as them on this issue is POV pushing. Dpmuk (talk) 23:30, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello, Dpmuk. I would not presume to think your reasoning is political. Why should I, I don't think I've interacted with you, so I wouldn't know anyway. I believe you though. You also don't have to get it out in the open that you are English, it sounds too much like a confession. :). Anyway, I have English relatives who I get on extremely well with, so I have no problems with English people. There is nothing wrong with you considering yourself British first, it's your choice. As long as you can accept that my nationality is Scottish, though I can't deny my British citizenship. As for the motorways, M9 motorway (Scotland) is far more precise an article name. It is also run and maintained by Scottish authorities. Can I give you a scenario? If the British roads where numbered using a European system do you think the consensus on these article names would be M? motorway (Europe) or M? motorway (Britain)? Article names are also meant to reflect common usage. Common usage would be M9 motorway, Scotland, just as it would be M1 Motorway, England. Have a look at the talk pages and note how often England is used by editors when talking of their motorways. Jack forbes (talk) 00:00, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, that's fair enough - it was just your statement above was quite strongly worded and given that if such a vote does happen we're likely to be disagreeing I wanted to make sure we had things sorted first. I think a lot of my current issues with Sarah777 have come about because of people assuming things from the way people voted and didn't want that to happen here.  I know what you're saying about the English thing and normally I wouldn't mention it, but I thought it best here so as to explain that although I consider myself British that had nothing to do with my reasoning.  It's obvious from user name I'm from the UK and so I didn't want any misunderstanding.  I can fully accept you being Scottish first, British second (or possibly lower? :-)) - I lived in Wales for three years so it's certainly something I'm used to although I accepted it long before then as well.  I take your point about 'Scotland' being more precise and I suppose it comes down to precision or consistency and I prefer the latter.  I'm also not entirely sure about the common usage argument - I really have no idea whether England/Scotland, Britain or even the incorrect UK would be the most common usage - I also suspect there are many from other parts of the world that would call in English and wind you up no end!  No I don't think consensus would be to call them (Europe) although that would be my preferred option.  Anyway it looks like although we differ with our views we understand each others reasoning and think it's reasonable so we won't be having any problems if it comes to a move discussion. Dpmuk (talk) 00:17, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * P.S. Just noticed how close you are to finishing the Munroes - quite impressive! I think I'm on three although I suspect I have further to go and I'm also more a climber than a walker. Dpmuk (talk) 00:20, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL. No, that's how many I've climbed (walked). I'm only starting out! I'll let you know in a few years when I have a couple left. I've got to get to bed, I have my third one to walk tomorrow or the day after. :) Jack forbes (talk) 00:27, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * P.S. I stand by every word of my strongly worded statement. This does not mean that everyone pushes their British POV, but from my experience they are few and far between. You appear to be one of the few. Jack forbes (talk) 00:44, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * D'oh - yep misread that. That will teach me that to be doing stuff this early in the morning - I may have picked up on it being ambiguous if I was more awake! Dpmuk (talk) 01:10, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

M8 and M9 are motorways in Great Britain numbered by the Great Britain numbering scheme. It makes sense for those article titles to be GB rather than (Scotland), it should be inline with the other articles. Also to have M8 Scotland may lead people to think theres an M1-7 in Scotland.

However this is not a priority for me, so i wont be requesting a move. The motorway issues have taken up far to much time in the past week.

As for the bit on British POV pushing, its true that Welsh, Scottish and Irish nationalists work together in an attempt to undermine the United Kingdom, sadly this is seen from time to time on wikipedia and in the real world aswell. Shock horror that the British Prime Minister who is responsible for the national security of Wales and Scotland is in the infobox. Its totally offensive to reove them and yes, when the main people pushing for changes are nationalists it looks very suspicious. Unlike Australian or US states, they do not use the term country to describe them. The fact remains that England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are part of the United Kingdom, and whilst that is the case i will oppose any attempts that seek to mislead people about their status. BritishWatcher (talk) 09:32, 4 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Also to have M8 Scotland may lead people to think there's an M1-7 in Scotland. Right. So the host of ridiculously named English motorways like the M621 motorway might lead people to think there are another 620 motorways in GB? Scotland is more informative to the reader than "Great Britain" - unless you imagine there are folk who know what "Great Britain" is but have never heard of Scotland? Your position is manifestly political, not encyclopedic and certainly not supportive of WP:NPOV. Like most Anglo-American nationalists. Sarah777 (talk) 22:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * umm no its because there are many already at (Great Britain), it clearly makes sense when it comes to motorways that cross into England and Wales or England and Scotland, and the fact its all numbered under the GB scheme seems like a valid reason. If this matter went to a RFC (if it were needed) or a central dicussion, id accept the outcome either way. But at the moment most are Great Britain, there for those few which are not should be brought into line with the others. Its not something i feel very strongly about, except when people make article moves without following process, which creates a huge mess as it cant be reverted without admins. BritishWatcher (talk) 23:01, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I would never think of Jack forbes as anything other than Scottish.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:00, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Donald Russell Beef meat company.
 I have had two adverts from these guys, one in the Radio Times and get this - one in a box of DVDs that came today from Amazon! Not cookery DVDs, but mostly violent Anime shows, the Simpson’s movie and the Matrix (Both Blu-rays...). So, you ever heard of them? They claim to be really good, and I am very tempted to order some beef for a Beef Wellington... --Frank Fontaine (talk) 19:43, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Just taken a look at there prices...Ohhh man there not cheap... --Frank Fontaine (talk) 19:55, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Frank, I've never heard of them. I wouldn't fancy beef being posted out to me though, as I once worked for the PO. The way parcels are loaded onto the vans you would end up with the thinnest bit of beef imaginable. :) Jack forbes (talk) 22:56, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, screw it, there way too expensive aswell!--Frank Fontaine (talk) 12:42, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back
Glad to have ya back. GoodDay (talk) 17:27, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Glad to be back. I'm all sore after my latest Munro. I sure hope it starts to get easier. Jack forbes (talk) 17:29, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Your country is beautiful. I'll never forget those opening scenes in Braveheart. -- GoodDay (talk) 17:35, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that Scotland is beautiful, however Braveheart was mainly filmed in County Wicklow, Ireland.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:37, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Ya mean that opening scene was shot in Ireland? GoodDay (talk) 17:42, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The chances are it was filmed in Scotland, though I can't be sure as I don't remember the opening scene. Jeanne is right to say that most of it was filmed in Ireland. The Irish government were giving film makers big tax breaks at the time which obviously made it cheaper to film there. I suspect if it was a panoramic opening scene it would have been filmed in Scotland. Jack forbes (talk) 17:55, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hard to believe, it's been 14-yrs since the movie was released. GoodDay (talk) 18:01, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, long time. Do you want to see something really funny? Have a close look at the first statue on the Wallace Monument article. Jack forbes (talk) 18:08, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * There was controversy over Gibson/Wallace statue, right? GoodDay (talk) 18:11, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Damn right there was. I enjoyed the film, but that's taking it too far. Can you imagine a statue being erected to Ghengis Khan looking exactly like Big John Wayne? I can't remember the name of film, but it was quite funny hearing him talking with his strong American accent. Jack forbes (talk) 18:17, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, the real William Wallace was (apparently) heavily bearded. GoodDay (talk) 18:34, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I did the scene from Highlander, standing at the summit swinging my sword. Nah, not really, but I would have loved it if I could have and no one was watching. You can get arrested for swinging a sword nowadays. Jack forbes (talk) 17:40, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Just as ridiculous as Tony Curtis playing a medieval Englishman and speaking with a Brooklyn accent! Why didn't they use an Oriental to play Genghis Khan? Ah, Hollywood, the land of historical impossibilities.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 04:36, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Enjoyed your poem Jack. He was quite astute, wasn't he. Only 280 to go, I see. Well done. Hope you had the weather to enjoy the views. Glad to have you back. Daicaregos (talk) 10:08, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Dai. Burns was a man after my own heart. Only 280 to go, it sounds easy when you say it quick, doesn't it. The weather hasn't been too bad up to now, though I'm not sure if it will stay that way. I may wait till the winter is over before tackling my next one. I had better get a move on when I start again as I don't want to be 100 when I'm tackling my last one. I'd probably need a chair lift. Jack forbes (talk) 10:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * And that may just be considered cheating. :) Daicaregos (talk) 10:29, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I also enjoyed your poem, Jack. Not meaning to change the subject, but did you realise that most of the inventors in the 19th and 20th centuries were Scottish? Bell, Baird, Fleming to name but a few.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 11:48, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, the Scots have certainly contributed more than their fair share of inventions and discoveries. I once had a friendly discussion with an Aussie who asked me what the Scots had ever contributed to the world. I mentioned Baird, Dunlop, Bell amongst others. I asked him in return what the Aussies had contributed. After a long pause he replied, erm, the zip? He probably regretted asking. :) ps, I'm sure they have invented a few things, but they sure didn't trip off his tongue. Jack forbes (talk) 12:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, alot of great inventors came from Scotland. It is ofcourse interesting to note that almost all of the great inventions of England and Scotland came after the formation of the Kingdom of Great Britain. Just goes to show the union has been a good thing for both England and Scotland, its ashame some seek to end that 302 years of unity. BritishWatcher (talk) 12:17, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * BW, I don't like the thought of banning anyone from my talk page, but if you come here again for the sole purpose of riling me I won't hesitate to do it. Jack forbes (talk) 12:23, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * lol sorry Jack, its watching the conservative party conference.. it gets me hyped up a bit. BritishWatcher (talk) 12:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Sean Connery in the 'Untouchables' & Billy Connolly in 'Mrs Brown' were great. GoodDay (talk) 14:20, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker of Cream, Strawberry Swichblade ( a great, underrated post-punk group), Altered Images, Bay City Rollers, Lulu, Big Country, Simple Minds, Dire Straits, one half of Rod Stewart, I could go on and on listing the Scottish contributions to music.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:34, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * We've forgotten Paul McCartney, he's got Scottish ancestry. GoodDay (talk) 14:37, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * True, also some Manx and Irish.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:42, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh-and how could I have forgotten this- the late, great Jim Morrison was of Scottish ancestry and often boasted of it, claiming it was his Scots Celtic blood that inspired him to write poetry.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:56, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed. GoodDay (talk) 14:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but now I gotta go catch a bus into town. See you later.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Okie Dokie. GoodDay (talk) 15:01, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Missed the bloody bus. That's ok, got to see an interesting dramatised documentary on tv about Jesse James. "Hold 'em up, this is a bank robbery"!!!!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:56, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Missed the bus? I didn't know you lived in a one bus town. Jack forbes (talk) 23:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The bus passes every two hours. My village is so small it doesn't even have its own post office! Drag city--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:30, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Edits
I didnt want to edit repeatedly like that, i said to NEDAO to discuss the matter before trying to put in dubious edits, i wanted to give others like yourself who are intersted a chance to give their opinions.(Monkeymanman (talk) 14:25, 16 October 2009 (UTC))

Sorry Jack but i think we probably would. I was thinking that when you said do we have consensus that it had been reached. But another argument of the same form was placed before anyone had the chance to reply. (Monkeymanman (talk) 14:38, 16 October 2009 (UTC))

The UK countries
It's hard to believe, but I'm no longer overly concerned anymore, about wheiter England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland are calld the exact same thing. Within my country, all its 13 internal divisions are not all called provinces. 3 of them are called territories. GoodDay (talk) 00:21, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Forgive my ignorance, GD, but which are the other territories besides the Northwest Territories?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:57, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Nunavut & Yukon. -- GoodDay (talk) 15:07, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yukon, I have heard of, but Nunavut, never. Where is it?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:38, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * On the east side of 'Northwest Territores'. GoodDay (talk) 15:40, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * They sound rather gelid. What is the population for the three territories?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:41, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * About 31,500 in Nunavut & 33,400 in Yukon. GoodDay (talk) 17:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Canada have not many people me thinks. (And Jack, remind me never never never to get into a debate about Scottish football, you know what i mean...)--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 17:08, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've gone through too many years of debating Scottish football (Old Firm) in real life. I can't be bothered going through it again on wikipedia. Jack forbes (talk) 18:23, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorryy men folk but why is any of this important - fact is it used to be related to Great Britian - but think first word is long since gone missing - Liverpool 2 MU 0 - nothing as it used to be GIG!!!Bolev (talk) 18:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Rangers F.C. discussions
It make ya wanna cry out "it's just a game", eh? GoodDay (talk) 20:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, I have been observing this discussion since it started. These guys make Millwall supporters look tame.--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 20:08, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The religious aspect of it actually makes me quite angry. You would be hard put to find any church goers at an Old Firm game. Jack forbes (talk) 20:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * In my part of the globe, the sports called soccer. I like your guy's descriptive better. GoodDay (talk) 20:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Where I come from it's called fitba (slang). I once followed Celtic F.C. wherever they played and knew all the songs going, Irish songs and anti-Rangers songs. Most people grow out of the hatred that's there, though their are always some that don't. Jack forbes (talk) 20:16, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Is being a referee in those games, an occuptional hazzard? GoodDay (talk) 20:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's usually well policed inside the ground now, though there are still occasions when it can get out of hand. Jack forbes (talk) 20:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * To be on the safe side, I won't be applying for the occupation. GoodDay (talk) 20:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Have a look at this video from you tube of the Scottish Cup Final of 1980, a game I attended. . Check out the pitch invasion at the end of the game. If you think that's bad though you should have seen it outside the ground. Jack forbes (talk) 20:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Anger management could've certainly been advised there. GoodDay (talk) 20:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Give them some English flags to burn, should help stop them fighting with themselves. --Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 20:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Giggle giggle. GoodDay (talk) 20:53, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Why on earth would we want to burn English flags? I don't understand why you would think burning English flags is something Scots people would want to do. I have no interest in the English flag, for any reason. Jack forbes (talk) 02:19, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

To lighten the mood a little: have you heard the one about the man taken ill on the train going from London to Scotland? He gets off at Glasgow and asks a passer-by the quickest way to the hospital. "See that bar there?" says the local, "Well, go in there and sing Danny Boy!" (boom, boom). Daicaregos (talk) 09:01, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL!!!!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:28, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling... You should try being a Celtic supporter sitting in the Rangers end at an Old Firm game. I did, when I was sixteen and went along with a couple of Rangers supporting pals to the game. Don't ask me why, I was only a boy. I felt sure that at any minute someone would shout "Hey, that guy looks like a fenian, everybody get him!". Jack forbes (talk) 10:25, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Jack, what does a fenian look like?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:39, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * To a sixteen year old standing next to all those Rangers supporters I thought a fenian looked like me. Of course, I shouldn't have sang Danny Boy! :) Jack forbes (talk) 10:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Must have been one hell of an experience Jack. I might query my Scottish aunt if she knows anything about the old firm…She has told me many humorous stories about Scotland, including and her ultra-patriotic mother. (Even mention William Wallace and she will be reduced to tears of passion and anger-her family is descended from his clan i think) --Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 13:31, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a fine auntie you've got there. Things have improved a great deal at the football, it's not half as bad as it was in the 70's and 80's. Jack forbes (talk) 13:49, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 70s and 80s? Jack, you and I must be around the same age!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:00, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure I'm a few years older than you Jeanne. You certainly look like a young thing on your talk page. Jack forbes (talk) 19:13, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I'M THE YOUNGEST HERE!! (Brag)--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 19:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Jack, that's because when I sold my soul to the devil he granted me eternal youth.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:42, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back
Hiya Jack, see what happens when you're not here. Don't let them drive you away again. Good to see you again. : ) Daicaregos (talk) 14:22, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello Dai, I'll be keeping one eye on the Scotland talk page without making any more comments on it. Of course, if they manage to start some type of straw poll on it I shall put my tuppence worth in. Their argument for the inclusion of GSTQ is nonsense anyway, but then they already know that. Jack forbes (talk) 14:34, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Good idea. That's one of the reasons that it's better you are involved here than not involved here. Of course they know. They just try to keep wearing us down, using they same 'argument' again and again in order to irritate us into making a statement we later regret, and using it against us. And because they enjoy winding us up, of course (see that ignorant twat 'simon' on this for example, or read the unfounded, unverified and unexplained, opinions of a certain "valued editor" who drove you away in the first place). Yep, it's best you stay Jack. Daicaregos (talk) 16:50, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's the spirit. GoodDay (talk) 14:52, 22 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Bloody hell, Jeanne! What are you trying to do, frighten the crap out of me! Jack forbes (talk) 16:51, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, Helena Snakenborg was a hot number at Queen Elizabeth I's court.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:54, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That looks like QEI but in a clown costume. --Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 16:55, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Can't you hear the circus music playing?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * With the bulbous head looks like a poorly disguised alien! Sarah777 (talk) 16:58, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Please don't show me any pictures of those who were considered not so hot. Not sure if I could take that after a meal. Jack forbes (talk) 17:05, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ''But I must let the show go on, Baby....."--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:05, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * All clowns are a bit sinister. In fact, this one has an uncanny likeness to Helena Snakenborg. Jack forbes (talk) 19:00, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That film is the sole reason I never look into drains.--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 19:09, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * He's down there you know, really, he is! Jack forbes (talk) 19:17, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "They float Gordie, they all float". GoodDay (talk) 19:24, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Anyone else think it would have been scarier if it was just a whole lot of other clowns chasing them in the sewers, honking car horns, and throwing buckets of water over them? Spiders don't do it for me. Jack forbes (talk) 19:32, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I found the movie less scary, when the loser's club were adults & we learned what Pennywise really was. GoodDay (talk) 19:40, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Take your pick, J-j-j-Jacky boy. Oh, except for the one on the end, that's already taken. Sorry.--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 20:03, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Baby, there's an enormous crowd of people, they're all after my blood. IMO, the Three Dog Night version was better. Go check out the video from 1974 on YouTube. Brilliant- complete with circus music, a Master of Ceremonies, and flared jeans!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 20:07, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Jack is Back!
But...what drove you away??? Sarah777 (talk) 16:56, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * He took everything too seriously. --Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 17:00, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, Sarah. I guess I'm a little sensitive about crap posts concerning the Scotland article. Anything else I'm pretty chilled out about. As I said previously, it's just the way I'm made and I'm probably a little too set in my ways to change now. Jack forbes (talk) 17:04, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Then if you let these people get to you, you're being troll'd. Don't feed the trolls. --Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 17:07, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

A helping hand
Thanks Jack for reverting that 'thing' on my talkpage. GoodDay (talk) 20:06, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * They'll get range blocked or taken away to a padded cell. Whichever comes first. Jack forbes (talk) 21:19, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * If the anon happens to start 'reverting' your edits? let me know. I'll simply check your contributions & reverse such reverts. GoodDay (talk) 21:38, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * He would have to go back a bit to reverse my contributions as I've been rather lazy on that front recently. GoodDay, I wouldn't even reply to them or even make a comment about them anymore. Some people just love the attention and when they don't get it they quite often wander off. Jack forbes (talk) 21:42, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Ignore him? all consider it. But, it's so fun to insult him. GoodDay (talk) 21:44, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I can understand that, but then he's doing a good job of making people laugh at him without anyones help. Jack forbes (talk) 21:51, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That's true. GoodDay (talk) 21:54, 24 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Lol Fail Jeanne, just fail.--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 14:55, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Now isn't Anne Dacre worth waiting for?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:57, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh! Yes…Of course….Hmmm. --Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 15:02, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I wonder if she'll rev GoodDay's engines?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:08, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Does she got a cool body? GoodDay (talk) 15:17, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, just like Pamela Anderson in her red Baywatch swimsuit.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:19, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, varoom, varoom. GoodDay (talk) 15:23, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Erm, what has the hot Elizabeth got on the side of her face? Could it be the plague? Ring the bell, ring the bell! Jack forbes (talk) 16:14, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * IMHO, she likely bumped her head on the bed post, due to a heated moment. GoodDay (talk) 16:22, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, that's why she looks so cross. The {poor?) husband won't be getting it for a fortnight. Jack forbes (talk) 16:44, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Assuming he was still alive. GoodDay (talk) 16:48, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe both Anne Howard, Countess of Arundel and her husband were rebels. Rebel Rebel, you've torn your dress, rebel rebel, your face is a mess, rebel rebel, how could they know.... HOT TRAMP, I love you so....--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:39, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * With a rebel yell she cried "more, more, more" Jack forbes (talk) 17:47, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds like an Andrea True Connection song.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:52, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Billy Idol. Jack forbes (talk) 17:54, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I know the Billy Idol song. I was referring to More, More, More How do you like it, how do you like it? More, more, more....Ooh, How do you like your love....--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:42, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The Beatles song: "Why don't we do it in the road". GoodDay (talk) 18:47, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Or the Chase song, Get it on in the Morning, Now.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:53, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Friggin in the riggin cos there's f**k all else to do. Jack forbes (talk) 18:58, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Land Ho!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:04, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Retirement template
When ya gonna delete the template? GoodDay (talk) 19:11, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was gonna ask you the same question.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:12, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, I don't know. Looks kind of good to me. I'll leave it for a bit. Jack forbes (talk) 19:22, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It looks so dismal and.....final. IMO, you should remove it.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 21:25, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Scotland intro.
Thanks Jack. My original suggestion also proposed a paragraph break at the point where the modified less "Scottish" has been agreed. What do you think, would it make sense to split it? A new para. would help readibility and help to reinforce the modifications rather than a run-on sentence. Leaky Caldron  19:24, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Funny that, I had the same thought when changing the wording. I do think it would look better. Jack forbes (talk) 19:27, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Lead
Remember the good ole days, when 'country' wasn't challenged? Shall we tell Mais oui, 'mais non'? GoodDay (talk) 12:56, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't feel up to going through the whole thing again. No doubt Scotland is a nation, but I feel if we have to have one or the other country would be best, not an opinion I held when I first participated a couple of years ago. Jack forbes (talk) 13:00, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Either will do IMO. I'm not rigid anymore, concerning keeping the 4 articles consistant. Northern Ireland's lead has already be 'tweaked', so Scotland, Wales & England's leads likely will be too. GoodDay (talk) 13:03, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * As long as it doesn't descend into the farce that occurred before, then it may be a good thing to have the discussion. I'm not holding my breath though. Jack forbes (talk) 13:08, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll participate in the discussion, as little as possible. There's some editors at that article, who'd rather I stayed away (I was involved in the heated 'map' discusson, back then). GoodDay (talk) 13:16, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, me too. We'll see how it goes. Jack forbes (talk) 13:19, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

You're breaking away from the year-old lead agreement? shocking. GoodDay (talk) 18:16, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't want to shock you GoodDay, but it does look like a good lede. I've added my tuppence worth to the discussion (more like a penny really) and am going to leave it there. If they decide to take up the suggestion then fair enough. If not, then that's fine too. Jack forbes (talk) 11:24, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

...
Enjoy.--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 13:37, 27 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks Jack, I couldn't agree more. We all know where it is and what it is and all the wordsmithing in the world cannot alter that! Leaky  Caldron  13:21, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

The newbie in town
I may consider allowing him to post at my talkpage & maybe respond to his gripes. Something to do, anyways. GoodDay (talk) 21:02, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Never know, you may even find out why they have a bee in their bonnet about you. Jack forbes (talk) 21:05, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I sorta remember what it was, it's in my talkpages archives from mid-Ocotober. GoodDay (talk) 21:08, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Had a quick look. Seems they reverted a few editors but your response probably got under their skin. PS, I had forgotten I had made a couple of comments on the thread. Jack forbes (talk) 21:17, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * He/she is merely over-reacting, nothing too serious. GoodDay (talk) 21:18, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * As long as someone keeps an eye on it and your cool about it. Jack forbes (talk) 21:21, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, It's that time of year (Christmas spirit). GoodDay (talk) 21:23, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Evertime I think Im getting bored by all of this, GD keeps adding fuel to my fire. Perhaps if he didn't act like he was smarter than everyone else, especially ips. He has no idea who is on the other side of the computer. Hes not smarter than the rest of us.--Stepwrong (talk) 21:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think for a second he thinks he's smarter than everyone. You may feel that and are pissed off at it, but don't you think it's time to let things go? It wastes your time and his. Jack forbes (talk) 21:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Its not over til its over--Stepwrong (talk) 21:43, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Why don't you talk to him about it and maybe then you will both come to an understanding. If you and GoodDay want to use my talk page to talk it over civilly (any abuse and I'll delete) you are both welcome. Jack forbes (talk) 21:47, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not angry with you anymore (Stepwrong). GoodDay (talk) 21:57, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll give it until the morning and if Stepwrong still doesn't want to talk it through with you GoodDay I'll delete or archive this conversation. Shame really. Jack forbes (talk) 17:02, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Come on Good Day, out with it, 'fess up. What did you do to Stepwrong to make him so irate? PS, I won't tell a living soul (ssh......)--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:06, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and I won't even listen! Jack forbes (talk) 17:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks as though I'm wasting my time asking for some kind of polite conversation that may solve it.. Jack forbes (talk) 17:17, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * His comments are way out of line. And that's putting it mildly.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep. I'm going to archive this section Jeanne as there is not a hope in hell of the user wanting to come to an understanding. Jack forbes (talk) 17:29, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * In general he/she was peeved over a comment I made concerning the blocking of an IP. PS: In agreement, archive. GoodDay (talk) 17:33, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Channel Islands
Why are so few editors contributing? Hard to tell, but my theory is that as the atmosphere on the British Isles Terminology task force/Channel Islands is so unpleasant, not many people feel they need that sort of crap for something so trivial. Also, I note that no RfCs have been made at France, Normandy or Brittany, which may be quite telling. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 07:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems to be a strange kind of RFC anyway. Aren't they usually made at the article concerned? Jack forbes (talk) 11:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I will tell you why I have refused to participate further. Everytime one steps into a discussion of that sort, it's like an American soldier walking through a minefield in Vietnam circa 1967. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Dai, I consider myself a serious editor and my reason for being here is to create, not argue the same point over and over like a monotonous drill, nor is it to delete and revert. At the moment, there are pitifully few editors who wish to collaborate and help build a vibrant encyclopedia, brimming with facts and knowledge. Just as there are few polite editors who can civilly enter into debate over issues in an adult manner, without resorting to withering sarcasm. The wreckers and POV pushers have won. I'm pissed off with the whole atmosphere at Wikipedia.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:04, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well said Jeanne. Like (I suspect) others, I've moved into the "don't care" camp on issues like this.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:25, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what I said to Rockpocket when we were discussing VintageKits. It's easier to shrug over a f..k off than insinuations about a person's intelligence or quality of articles, which can only serve to undermine a person's self-confidence.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:16, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It was well said Jeanne. You should have posted that on the project page and watched a whole heap of editors post there for the first time just to agree with you. They would be posting from Canada as I heard many of them crossed the border to avoid the conflict. Anyone else think that using too much sarcasm should be a blocking offence? The lowest form of wit as far as I'm concerned. I've seen people being blocked for eventually snapping at someone who's posts have been dripping with it. Jack forbes (talk) 11:19, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I posted my comment above yours, Jack instead of here. I have always detested sarcasm and snide insinuations.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:21, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * And let me be even more frank. As far as I'm concerned the Channel Islands are the birthplace of Lily Langtry, the residence of my favourite thriller writer, and the place of origin of some of Keith Richard's maternal ancestors. If I had my way, I'd call them the Norman Isles and rest my case.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:21, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You must understand Jeanne that you began by giving a glowing endorsement to the opening (and highly partisan) introduction of a very unusual RFC. You must have known how fraught and difficult the whole 'BI' subject is. After doing that, you have to roll with the punches in a sense, and as you are polite and don't seem to break any rules, nobody is (fortunately) being unpolite to you. It's just the nature of the issue I'm afraid – this is a very non-standard (in my view, gamed) RFC, within a taskforce that came about last year after a number of articles were getting locked over the matter. I've not been around this past year admittedly, but I know HighKing has found dealing with the term to be extremely hard. These points should indicate how difficult this issue is. I'm afraid some people really don't want this term used on Wikipedia at all, while others would happily splash it everywhere: both of those two 'extremes' want the Channel Islands to be forced into a single 'catch-all' definition. But that synthesis is unencyclopedic, as the other major encyclopedias (and the latest OED) show. Matt Lewis (talk) 14:06, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's up to us as editors to give all the facts, coldly, calmly and concisely in the lead sans POV. Channel Islands is a special case due to their distance from the archipelago, so the lead needs to explain why. Thats not a difficult task. It needs to be stressed that they are historically a part of the Duchy of Normandy and the people ethnically Norman.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:12, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This isn't about the Intro of the British Isles article! Obviously we should provide all the meanings neutrally there! This debate (and the whole BI taskforce) is about the use of the term in the countless Wikipedia articles that could/can and do already use it (and often mis-use it too)! It is also about a creating a guideline for the term's use. Matt Lewis (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Taskforce/Channel Islands will (hopefully) be succesful in reaching its goals. GoodDay (talk) 15:50, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The latest comment on 'Taskforce:CI' convinced me. I've joined the "don't care" brigade. It is no longer on my watchlist. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 18:04, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Proposed WikiProject
I have made a proposal to establish a WikiProject for British-Irish Collaboration. A number of proposals are currently being made around initiates to improve collaboration between British and Irish editors on topics of mutual interest. A number of initiates have been adapted in the past, with varying degrees of success, but all positive in their intent to resolve these issues. A centralised WikiProject for British-Irish collaboration could act as a focus for initiatives to improve collaboration on these topics.

As an editor that has recently taken part in discussions around initiates like these, please comment on the proposal to establish a WikiProject for this purpose. Please also circulate this notice to other editors you feel may be interested. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 13:53, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I've created a basic page at WikiProject British-Irish Collaboration with some starting ideas and marked the page with a brainstorming template. As someone who replied to the proposal, please contribute some ideas or comments on the page. Thanks, --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 22:39, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

British Taskforce/Specific page
Wowsers, I was gonna drop a message off at Mister Flash's page, but ya'll beat me to it. GoodDay (talk) 21:22, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * See my comment at User talk:Snowded. Mister Flash (talk) 21:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That may be the right decision. Getting worked up over it doesn't do you or anyone else any good. I'm sure I'll see you around the Scotland article. Jack forbes (talk) 21:32, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Scotland? ahhh nooo. GoodDay (talk) 21:50, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think another round is coming up for a while yet (I hope). Jack forbes (talk) 21:54, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Phew! GoodDay (talk) 21:55, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Edward O'Brien
Jack, do you see what I mean about articles being put up for deletion? If articles such as this one gets deleted, people aren't going to bother writing new articles for fear of their eventual/possible arrival at AfD.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:46, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * As I said on the page, the 911 hijackers all have their own articles and nothing much is known of them individually. Whether or not they killed thousands or none, according to the argument put across to delete the Edward O'Brien article their articles shouldn't exist. We can't have a rule and only apply it sparingly. Jack forbes (talk) 11:40, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. It becomes like a tennis match. First they say you can't have an article on someone known for just a single event; then, when you hit back by saying there are articles on the 911 highjackers, Agca, Chapman, etc. they reply by pointing to the amount of publicity those individuals received; you obviously counter by reminding them that O'Brien also received publicity at the time, but then it's back to the single-event rule once more. In other words, article-creating editors can never win on AfD.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:34, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a shame others can't see that.
 * Jeanne, I would like to make a comment referring to a discussion on Sarah's page. I know, and everyone that knows you here knows, that all the close to the knuckle banter is just that, banter. As I said on Sarahs page, I've worked with women most of my life and the banter was sometimes very close to the knuckle, but the one thing we all knew was that none of it was taken seriously, it was all said in jest to get a laugh. I'm sure your not bothered, but don't you worry about it anyway and keep jesting away. Jack forbes (talk) 13:20, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * .I'm not bothered in the slightest by the banter. I would only be bothered if my jesting provoked boredom. What a drag it is getting old, do do do do do do do....--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:58, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The 9/11 hijackers articles should be 're-directed' to the 9/11 events, IMHO. GoodDay (talk) 15:52, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * GoodDay, you're missing my point. I wasn't suggesting that the highjackers, Chapman, Agca, etc. should not have articles, I was saying that all of those people were notable by one event, same as O'Brien, therefore the one-event rule shouldn't apply solely to him. Once we start merging bio articles into the events themselves, we shall have fewer bio articles. And that bodes ill for the future of Wikipedia, as editors will be wary of creating articles only to have them dragged over to AfD.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:55, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Chapman & Agca can keep their articles, but not the hijackers. GoodDay (talk) 17:12, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Mohammad Atta is notable for an article, as for the other highjackers, hmm...not so sure. I must read each article before I give my opinion on the matter.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:16, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Grains of truth!
Na na Jack-Kun, did you know rice is a type of Grain?--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 15:29, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Can't say that I did, Frank. Jack forbes (talk) 15:33, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You're no good at this Jack, you're supposed to say "That's not grains of truth, that's the Truth about grains!"--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 15:35, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Try and do better next time. I'm off now to the town to find those Christmas presents I should have bought weeks ago. Bye! Jack forbes (talk) 15:38, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I corrected the typo, it works now! DO you get it? (And happy shopping)--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 15:40, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

NO TROLLS ALLOWED ON THIS TALK PAGE Merry Christmas, Jack, and all the best for the new year-2010!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:38, 21 December 2009 (UTC) Santa told me you wanted some socks for Christmas. Daicaregos (talk) 09:44, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Happy holidays, from my alter egos. GoodDay (talk) 18:33, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm back breathing the clean fresh air of Scotland after a week in that cesspit of crime/gluttony and loose morals (we don't have all that in Scotland) they call London. Oh, yes, I forgot to say, I had a good time. Jack forbes (talk) 18:58, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Welcome back, Jack. GoodDay (talk) 20:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * GoodDay, GoodDay. First of all, thanks for the welcome back. Secondly, I would like to say a few things to you concerning some of your posts recently. If you want me to, I'll tell you what I think. No swearing, no cursing, just the way I see it. Jack forbes (talk) 20:53, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You're always welcomed, but I get to have my rebuttal. GoodDay (talk) 21:01, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Your welcome to rebut away. First off, GoodDay, you seem to have a dislike for anything other than English being on wikipedia even though there is no English equivalent word, as shown in this diff. You were told by almost everyone an alternative name in English could not be used as there were none. Now, that is a shut and closed case as the !votes proved. I believe you were the only one other than the proposer who agreed to move the article name. Your only reply was that you weren't going to change your mind. I can't understand why you didn't understand the reasoning for not changing. Is it because you are stubborn perhaps? I noticed before you saying similar things at different articles. Perhaps it is because you are too stubborn. I would rather that than think you just dislike every language other than English. Secondly, and this one is close to my heart, I'm starting to think you continually, and without being encouraged in any way, enjoy telling Scots, Welsh and English people that you only look on them as British whether or not they self identify as Scots/Welsh or English. You even brought your last discussion on it from Elonkas talk page just to get it up and running. Even going so far as to question whether Scotland should have their own football league participating in Europe. You then go on to say that you know nothing of football which makes me wonder why you would comment on something you know nothing about. All this makes me wonder why? Is it because you srongly believe that Quebec should not be independent from Canada and your bringing your unionist view onto the UK article? Of course, there is one way for me to avoid all this on your talkpage and that's to take it off my watchlist and I've already done that. You are still welcome on mine even if I will no longer post on yours. Jack forbes (talk) 21:25, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Concerning the 'page movement requests': If I can't read it, I'll support changing it to something I can read. This is the english language Wikipedia, not the multiple language Wikipedia.
 * 2) Concerning how I describe Welsh, Scots, English & Northern Irish: I'm free to call 'em British on my talkpage & on others talkpages (unless they request otherwise).
 * 3) Concerning European FIFA teams: Merely my opinons, nothing more.
 * 4) I'm neither a British unionist, English, Scottish, Welsh or Norther Irish nationalist. If I were a British unionist - A) I'd have supported 'inclusion' of Elizabeth II & Gordon Brown at the Scotland, Northern Ireland, England & Wales infoboxes. B) Would never have agreed to usage of 'country' in those 4 articles introductions & C) Would be completely against the deletions or alterations of British Isles on Wikipedia. GoodDay (talk) 21:41, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

1)You still don't get it and I don't understand why. There are thousands of articles with non English article names that have no English equivalent. Do we just make up names? 2)I won't be seeing you calling them whatever you wish, your off my watchlist. 3)You can give an opinion. But is it much of an opinion when you know nothing of it? 4)I can't pin you down on number 4. You seem to change your mind on many of those every so often. Jack forbes (talk) 21:50, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) If closing administrators at those 'page movements' agree with you, then my 'votes' will be ruled as invalid.
 * 2) Concerning others talkpages, I leave those decisions with you & others.
 * 3) That's correct.
 * 4) Being flexiable, a sign of NPoV, to be sure. GoodDay (talk) 21:55, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I think that's enough. Hope you had a good Christmas. Jack forbes (talk) 22:00, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I sure did & hope you had, too. GoodDay (talk) 22:02, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Vice city
I wish I could have spent Christmas surrounded by vice, bawdiness, and loose morals. In medieval times and well up to the time of Killjoy Cromwell, Christmas-especially Twelfth Night was celebrated with wild, licentious behaviour. I'm glad you had a good time, and welcome back.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:30, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Jeanne. Wild, licentious behaviour, just what Christmas is all about. ;). Did you and your family have a good Christmas? Jack forbes (talk) 12:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, thank you, it was a nice day; we also had 25 degree weather, unfortunately it was overcast and not sunny.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:39, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Rabbit rabbit rabbit
For someone who has been blocked, Irvine sure has a lot of rabbit. I see the Christmas spirit has not mitigated his hatred for the Irish. If another editor had made similar comments about blacks, Jews, Muslims, etc., he or she would have received a permanent ban long before now. He seems to have been given carte blanche to make racist and sectarian comments about the Irish that would never have been tolerated were they directed against other ethnic or religious groups.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:49, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, as you say, if the exact same rhetoric were used against certain other groups he would be indef blocked. I couldn't believe that Elonka thought his 'apology' to you was in anyway genuine. It should have been obvious to even a child that it was another insult. Jack forbes (talk) 13:06, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Didn't realise you knew Cockney rhyming slang Jeanne. Is there no end to your talents? Yep, I agree. Elonka 'bottled' it (more Cockney rhyming slang - just trying to fit in, see :) ). Daicaregos (talk) 13:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Dai, when I lived in Blighty, I'd a fiancé from Lewes who was a Chelsea fan. He taught me lots of rhyming slang, although I knew some of it already. As for Irvine, he used the apology as a Trojan Horse with which to launch a direct attack against my deceased father.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:21, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Sybil
So as not to muck up Matt's page, here's one I'll always remember:

Basil Fawlty: Manuel -- my wife informs me that you're -- depressed. Let me tell you something. Depression is a very bad thing. It's like a virus. If you don't stamp on it, it spreads throughout the mind, and then one day you wake up in the morning and you -- you can't face life any more! Sybil Fawlty: And then you open a hotel. --19:40, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Here's one of my favourites, though there are quite a few. Basil thrashing his car when it breaks down. . Not very subtle comedy but funny nevertheless and it's something I'm sure most people have felt like doing at one time or another. Jack forbes (talk) 20:01, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Your article
Congratulations on your new article, Jack. It's very interesting, especially the discovery that flowers were put on/in tombs so far back in time. Didn't the person who put up the speedy deletion tag even bother to read the article first?!! Anyroad, it's a very good article.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:34, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Jeanne. Just another couple of hundred and I'll be up there with you. :) Jack forbes (talk) 11:29, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Interesting article Jack, fair play (Forteviot Bronze Age tomb). Nice one. Daicaregos (talk) 22:33, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Dai. Can't stop though, I'm being interrogated by Big Dunc. Got to get my story straight or I'll be carted off to the cells. :) Jack forbes (talk) 22:41, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

McCrone report
Yes Jack, I have indeed heard of it! It is undoubtedly notable enough for its own article (duly supported per WP:VERIFY of course). Then of course link to it from all appropriate articles, and vice versa.

My time is very limited at present (baby due!! and lots on at work), but I will do my WikiGnome bit with cats, links etc if that would help.

All the best! --Mais oui! (talk) 09:28, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Please note: you will have to disambiguate the new article from this report -> McCrone agreement. I also note that the 1974 report is used as a ref at this article: Economy of Scotland. --Mais oui! (talk) 09:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Whanna puppy Jack?
They sell em' on the streets of Seoul. Or how about a Hedgehog?--Misortie (talk) 12:33, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, get me a collie, I hear their quite tasty. What do they do with hedgehogs, make soup with them? I can picture myself ordering lunch. "Hedgehog soup please and for main I'll have collie steak, well done". Or am I being a wee bit racist? Jack forbes (talk) 12:45, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Rofl. Dog is hardly ever eaten in Korea. So yes, you are a wee bit. These were all pets, one huge pet shop that even selled lil cardinals (Cute!). Only proper farms (And there are very few of them) are allowed to breed dogs for meat. The more you know! You're probably thinking of China, were they do sell dogs/cats on the street for meat... --Misortie (talk) 12:53, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * My bad! Sounds as though your having a good time out there and it looks like a beautiful city. Jack forbes (talk) 13:03, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Tis'a wonderful city. Yes, it doesn't have much in the way of old architecture like London has, mainly because it was mostly all destroyed...

On thing you should know about the Koreans: There exceedingly honest people. There aren’t many thieving Koreans, and this is strongly reflected in there shops as a matter of fact, let's just say they would be very easy to steal from (They leave allot of goods out on the pavements, some times very high value!). There also very polite. --Misortie (talk) 13:10, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * To think that here shoe shops only leave out the one shoe as a precaution against thieves! It's a whole different culture eh! Jack forbes (talk) 14:41, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Shoes are dead cheap here. You can pick up a nice pair for 10000KRW (Won) (about £5 odd)--Misortie (talk) 15:44, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Jack1755
Jack, could you please try to dissuade Jack1755 from retiring? We need more editors like him. It would be a pity if he left the project. Use your powers of persuasion, please.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:59, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Ath-bhliain foai mhaise dhaoibh a chara.
Have a good new year. BigDunc 18:27, 31 December 2009 (UTC)