User talk:Jacky Smythe

Hi, friend
The best way to beat a notability challenge (which is asinine on your Cecil Cooney article, but that's neither here nor there) is to disprove the objection — to find some sort of independent published sources lauding Cooney, evidence of some major award, etc.

Realistically, knowing how these things work, it's best for you to start backing up your work NOW because I have a hunch the piece will be deleted (which doesn't mean erased, it means removed from being accessible by anyone but administrators). Hopefully the piece won't be deleted, but prospects don't look good.

Then I would suggest taking that biographical information which you have collected and spreading it to the winds via the internet — I noticed a search of the Turner Classic Movies site returned 35 credits for Cooney and invited the contribution of a biography for him, which doesn't exist. Port in your information there and elsewhere. Give them and others beefy biographical info and let things sit for a year or two and then try recreating the article, emphasizing his specific achievements and making use of expanded sources.

It sucks to have good work shot down on Wikipedia and I apologize for it, but just hang in there and keep plugging away. You'll get a feel for the dreaded "notability" thing as you go along. The key to beating a notability challenge is not to get challenged in the first place, which can be akin to dodging the cops on the freeway when you're driving 20 kmph over the speed limit. Following that metaphor, once the cops pull you over, you're pretty much busted and no amount of talking will get you out of a ticket... Carrite (talk) 15:30, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Cecil Cooney Defence
Final Comments by Author: His co-creative role is clear: camera operator cinematographer WP:CREATIVE. Apart from the filmography, his notability is established, firstly, through his long working relationship with the renowned cinematographer Erwin Hillier and their association with the influential filmakers Powell and Pressburger, also known as 'The Archers' (evidenced in the detail of his filmography); and the lasting legacy of the notable films they co-created. Secondly, his work as cinematographer on the film Beach Red, widely considered as influential WP:CREATIVE. Coverage to verify his notability, exists in the reviews of Beach Red, which although "may" be not sufficient, are not 'trivial'. The references given to support the facts, that establish his notability, can be deemed, on common sense grounds, to be sufficient coverage; no position has been advanced, outside of the facts given, that is 'likely to be challenged' WP:V. Extensive coverage is there to support the notability of the people and their activities with which Cecil Cooney was closely involved. Since the notability guidelines are not policy, a common sense approach to coverage, can be taken WP:N, WP:COMMON. The principles of 'conflict of interest' or 'neutral point of view', are not violated in this article. To quote WP:PEOPLE: "The topic of an article should be notable, or "worthy of notice"; that is, "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded". Another point of notability is his life story within the framework of the history of cinema.

Sorry about your article
Hi friend...

Sorry about your Cecil Cooney article. LIke I say, fill the world with his biography and try again in a couple years. Standards of "notability" do evolve over time. Keep working on Wikipedia, you're valuable. Carrite (talk) 01:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)