User talk:Jackyan

Hello, and my apologies for not writing sooner. It appears the "The" debate has reopened in the Beatles pages, this time in favour of lowering those capitals. Just in case you didn't know. (There's also a call for "project members" to concur. I never accepted my invitation; wasn't sure if you had joined it or not.) Anyway, some relief on this front? Zephyrad 14:53, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Yan, thank you for the note on the capitalization of definite articles! I had not visited that conversation for quite a while, having bowed out months ago, and going back it seems that they have concluded a capitalized "The" is correct! I can only throw up my arms. The article looks painfully amateurish now. The funny thing is, I'm not even an English major, I simply read a lot. :) &mdash;simpatico talk 09:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Would you all mind returning to the Beatles project talk page ? The discussion could use your reasonableness (although I would completely understand if you just couldn't take any more of the madness).McTavidge 06:55, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

It is now the Beatles
In case you are not watching the page, I have now formalised the policy to reflect the proper way of refering to the band. The announcement is here, and the wording is on the main page. Your help in applying this policy to the articles would be appreciated. LessHeard vanU 15:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Further to the above which is being sent to all the concerned editors, I would comment that diplomacy gets things done a whole lot quicker than simply stating a position. Debates can be vigorous, but it ensures that there is no possibility of misinterpretation. Being right isn't enough, communication is vital. LessHeard vanU 15:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your thoughtful message(s). I do believe in debate as being a vital tool in building Wikipedia, whilst being fully aware that my style is not always helpful. I still prefer to be shouted at than to be met with silence, as I am then able to at least know that there are other strongly held opinions. Oh, and my need to have the last word is, I regret, another affliction... LessHeard vanU 13:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia, Consensus, The Beatles and Project Policy
I was going to step away from this, since I was only going by the rules and I didn't want to get into a big dispute (especially with editors who I respect and have enjoyed working with), but recent events have brought me back.

The debate about naming the convention regarding the capitalisation or not of the letter "t" of the in t/The Beatles has been going on for a while. I have endured the snide remarks of a Twit, and have engaged in civil debate with some others who continued to question Project policy regarding the issue. I pointed out the need to establish a reasonable argument for their viewpoint over and above that of some professional knowledge so there could be a debate. When they did provide reasonable grounds for reopening the debate I used the offices of the Beatles Newsletter Issue 9:Issue of the Month to request comment, debate on the matter. There was no response. In the next Newsletter Issue 10:Issue of last Month I commented that there had been no response, and that the Project policy would be altered to use of the lowercase. Again, nobody other than the proponents responded. After a brief while I did as I said I would, and amended the Policy.

Belated reaction
The new Policy is not to the liking of some of the editors involved the the Beatles Project (as the previous one was not to others.) After the policy was implemented reasons and arguments for retaining the previous convention were given. Authorities were cited and some discussion was created. Very recently more than one editor has edited Beatles related articles specifically to reflect the previous policy.

My Comments
My preference is to capitalise the letter t of the in the Beatles.

Wikipedia has very few rules; two of the most important relate to consensus and verifiability.

WikiProject The Beatles has a specific area for the implementation (following debate and consensus) of Policy. The associate talkpage records the debate and the arguments used in reaching Policy decisions. The Project also maintains the principle of abiding by the rules that have been agreed, and the fundemental Wikipedia ethos of consensus.

My Observations
No recent discussion occurred when the matter of the use of lowercase or uppercase was notified in two Newsletters, other than between myself and the proponents of lowercase at the Policy talkpage. Since Policy implementation discussion has only occurred on the talkpages of concerned editors, or on the talkpages of some of the articles, and not at the Policy talkpage.

More than one editor has unilaterally decided to ignore the new Policy, going so far as to amend articles to reflect the previous convention.

My Conclusion(s)
The Beatles Project is being disrupted by editors who I personally know to be conscientious and dedicated contributors of long and good standing. In that there is now occurring what might be considered vandalism (the knowing altering of articles in a manner that is against Wikipedian and Project rules and policy), likely as a result of their strongly held views, I believe that this matter needs urgent addressing. I am copying this to the Policy talkpage, and to all the editors involved in formulating the new policy and the recent opponents. I suggest that this debate is taken there, and that this matter is decided in a civil manner in accordance with the principles of Wikipedia.

I am deeply saddened that it has come to this. I am depressed that editors (people) whose integrity and civility (not to say sheer fun) I had been proud to be associated with have acted in (what I see as) bad faith and flagrant disregard for the rules and guidelines of both Wikipedia and The Beatles Project. LessHeard vanU 00:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

incorrect capitalisation is not a minor problem
Please take a look at Talk:The_Beatles Thanks, Espoo (talk) 19:37, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Beatles RfC
Hello, this message is to inform you that there is currently a public poll here, to determine whether to capitalize the definite article ("the") when mentioning the band " THE BEATLES " mid-sentence. As you've previously participated either here, here, here, or here, your input would be appreciated. Thank you for your time. ~ GabeMc  (talk 23:52, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to an in-person meetup in Mohua / Golden Bay
Thinking about your summer break? Think about joining other Wikipedians and Wikimedians in Golden Bay / Mohua! Details are on the meetup page. There's heaps of interesting stuff to work on e.g. the oldest extant waka or New Zealand's oldest ongoing legal case. Or you may spend your time taking photos and then upload them.

Golden Bay is hard to get to and the airline flying into Tākaka uses small planes, so we are holding some seats from and to Wellington and we are offering attendees a $200 travel subsidy to help with costs.

Be in touch with Schwede66 if this event interests you and you'd like to discuss logistics.  Schwede 66  09:14, 13 November 2023 (UTC)