User talk:Jacobandtotty

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Hello, Jacobandtotty, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! John of Reading (talk) 13:46, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
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-- John of Reading (talk) 14:05, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Draft article
-- John of Reading (talk) 14:36, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Your text is now a draft article at User:Jacobandtotty/Cross Road (byway). -- John of Reading (talk) 14:36, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Your article has been moved to AfC space
Hi! I would like to inform you that the Articles for Creation submission which was previously located here: User:Jacobandtotty/Cross Road (byway) has been moved to Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Cross Road (byway), this move was made automatically and doesn't affect your article, if you have any questions please ask on my talk page! Have a nice day. ArticlesForCreationBot (talk) 16:29, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. However, the reviewer felt that a few things need to be fixed before it is accepted. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved. (You can do this by adding the text to the top of the article.)
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 * Can you give the URLs of the pages at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.postalheritage.org.uk that back up the statements in your text? -- John of Reading (talk) 19:39, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * (More) I expect that parts of the article are backed up by statements in the "What is a Cross Road?" book. It would be helpful if you could indicate this by adding in the page numbers where the information comes from. I'd be happy to do the formatting for you, or you could have a look at Referencing for beginners. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:45, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply at my talk page. I've reformatted the draft article a bit, moving the source information into the references. I've tagged the statements that need more input from you: Sorry to be so picky! (Oh, and can you reply here please, as other editors will find our conversation easier to understand if it is all in one place) -- John of Reading (talk) 16:14, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) What sub-page at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk do you expect the reader to look at? I'm afraid I don't understand parts of your answer at my talk page, so can you give an exact URL please, or idiot-proof instructions for getting from the home page www.nationalarchives.gov.uk to the proper sub-page.
 * 2) What source backs up the claim that "no other term" was used during those centuries? If this is from the Taylor book, what is the page number?
 * 3) What source backs up the claim that highway surveyors used the term?
 * 4) What sub-page at www.postalheritage.org.uk do you expect the reader to look at?
 * 5) On my talk page you mention "The History of the Post Office from Its Establishment down to 1836" by Herbert Joyce. This is good; the more reliable sources the better. What statements in the article can be backed up by references to this book, and what are the page numbers?

Hello John. The National Archives doe not have a URL for all their road maps. It is necessary to go to the records office at Kew and order them from storage and they are physically brought out to you. I can cite the earliest found, "Britannia" by John Ogilby (1600-1675) whose map is kept there under reference LC3/24 but to the best of my knowledge you can't look at it online. It is cited in the Taylor book on pages 11/12. Other map makers that followed kept to Ogilby's style in using the term "cross road". My trawl through all the road maps published by surveyors in this and other archives prove that "no other term" was used during those centuries and there are 38 named examples with the libraries also named between pages 12 and 18). To the best of my knowledge no-one else has pulled this research together so I can't cite another book. There is no sub-page at www.postal heritage.org.uk as likewise it is an archive that one must visit and order documents from their store. Herbert Joyce's book "The History of the Post Office from Its Establishment down to 1836" is kept under Refernce number 54A). The references to Joyce's book in the Taylor book are no pages 34 and 35. The Taylor book also includes extracts from 17 dictionaries which confirm that a "cross road" was (is) a by-way or by-road. These are on pages 9/10 and include: Oxford English Dictionary "A road running across between two main roads - a by-road" Collins New English Dictionary: "A road which crosses another - a by-road" Collins English Dictionary: "A road that crosses from one main road to another" Modern Library Dictionary of the English Language: "A road that crosses another road or one that runs transversely to main roads. A by-road" Universal English Dictionary: "A smaller road joining two main roads" Webster's New World Dictionary, Second College Edition: "A road that connects two or more main roads" Jacobandtotty (talk) 22:13, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you for these answers. I don't do much work with sources and articles, so this is an interesting change.


 * I'll stop fussing about those URLs. Wikipedia prefers secondary sources, such as the Taylor book, to primary sources, such as the old maps themselves. See WP:PRIMARY for lots of detail on this.


 * Your personal research in the archives cannot be used to source the sentence beginning "No other term...". Wikipedia does not publish original research; the research has to be published somewhere else first. I've reworded that sentence of the draft. What it now says is sourced but doesn't say anything about cross roads.


 * I found an online copy of the Joyce book, here, but it doesn't seem to mention "cross road" or "cross-road" anywhere. On page 57 it mentions "cross-post", but it doesn't say anything about the kinds of roads that post was carried on. This doesn't seem to help the article much. How does Taylor use this material? I've reworded the draft to reflect page 57 of Joyce, but now this part of the draft also doesn't say anything about cross roads.


 * Feel free to give more feedback here, and/or to edit the draft at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Cross Road (byway), and/or to re-submit the draft following the instructions in the pink box at the top. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:21, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

-- John of Reading (talk) 17:04, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * In case you want to refer to it, our last conversation has now been archived at User talk:John of Reading/Archive 9 -- John of Reading (talk) 16:15, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Cross road (byway) concern
Hi there, I'm HasteurBot. I just wanted to let you know that Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Cross road (byway), a page you created has not been edited in at least 180 days. The Articles for Creation space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for articlespace. If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it. You may request Userfication of the content if it meets requirements. If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available at WP:REFUND/G13. Thank you for your attention. HasteurBot (talk) 16:56, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * HasteurBot posted this message at User talk:John of Reading, since I created the page. But since the text was mostly contributed by you, I've copied the message here. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:30, 23 August 2013 (UTC)