User talk:JadamFAI

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! --Ronz (talk) 18:51, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
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Conflict of interest policy
If you have a close connection to some of the people, places or things you have written about, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:
 * 1) editing articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
 * 2) participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors;
 * 3) linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Spam);
 * and you must always:
 * 1) avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines, especially neutral point of view, verifiability, and autobiography.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have conflict of interest, please see Business' FAQ. For more details about what constitutes a conflict of interest, please see Conflict of Interest. --Ronz (talk) 18:54, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of "Suspension training"
A page you created, Suspension training, has been tagged for deletion, as it meets one or more of the criteria for speedy deletion; specifically, it is obvious advertising or promotional material.

You are welcome to contribute content which complies with our content policies and any applicable inclusion guidelines. However, please do not simply re-create the page with the same content. You may also wish to read our introduction to editing and guide to writing your first article.

Thanks. JaGa (talk) 21:56, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

TRX disambiguation page
Hello. Disambiguation pages are created because some search terms may have more than one meaning, depending on context. The purpose of the TRX disambiguation page is to provide a list of various things that TRX may mean, so that a user can more easily find the page they were looking for. Replacing a disambiguation page with a normal page means that a user may no longer be able to find the item he or she is looking for. Therefore I reverted your edit to TRX. You can read more about disambiguation pages here. --Smiller933 (talk) 22:12, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Trx suspension training
A tag has been placed on Trx suspension training, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be blatant advertising that only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the general criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 11, as well as the guidelines on spam.

If you can indicate why the subject of this article is not blatant advertising, you may contest the tagging. To do this, please add  on the top of Trx suspension training and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would help make it encyclopedic, as well as adding any citations from reliable sources to ensure that the article will be verifiable. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Accounting4Taste: talk 22:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Please refrain from introducing inappropriate pages to Wikipedia. Doing so is not in accordance with our policies. For more information about creating articles, you may want to read Your first article. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Accounting4Taste: talk 22:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I've read the note you left, asking what changes could be made. Perhaps you should consider adding material to an article that discusses the general principle that your copyrighted/trademarked product attempts to affect -- for instance, exercise physiology, or something more targeted. It is nearly impossible to have an encyclopedia entry about a specific product unless it is something that is so widespread and widely known -- like Coke, or Macdonald's -- that there are multiple sources that attest independently to its importance. So until you can demonstrate multiple arm's-length expert sources that attest to this product's notability in a verifiable way -- and that does NOT mean giving a list of its purchasers -- I'd forget about Wikipedia and apply my efforts to advertising in more traditional ways. I trust this answers your question; you may also find WP:Why was my article deleted? to be of use, as well as our advertising policy. Accounting4Taste: talk 22:42, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Accounting4Taste please check your chat page, i left a couple comments there....thanks again for your help

p.s.... saw your comment on your page...looking forward to your input.... as far as the news articles go, i simply cited a couple short quotes but would be more then happy to supply multiple page length articles that clearly shows : NY Times, Wall Street Journal, ESPN Mag etc...interest in this worldwide epidemic in fitness, stemming from suspension training. But as you can tell still need citation homework to do as far as wikipedia goes. Again though, i have no problem with leaving out product comments and product information in general regardless of who’s said what. By the way, how often do you come across an article in any notable news source that has rave reviews of the gourmet treats offered by Macdonalds or articles about Coke that somehow portray a positive health image. Just because something isn’t a household name doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be or doesn’t have the potential to bring positive affects to people worldwide. An encyclopedia such as Wiki...may seem like a nice marketing platform, but just offering a small page defining terms when it comes to Suspension Training with maybe a reference to the only system utilizing such training (The TRX) might actually be a good thing, not something that should be auto sent to the spam bin. The creator of the page (myself) may just need a little help with wiki etiquette.

Thanks for your note. Okay, I understand that you are working with what seem to be good intentions, and if you can do what you say you can do, I'm prepared to unblock Suspension training so that there could actually be an article there that defines that term without reference to a commercial product. Here is what I suggest. I'm going to create a "sandbox" page for you at User:JadamFAI/Sandbox where you can work on the page without posting it to what we call "article space" -- a sandbox is a place to try things out and get them right before you post them. What I suggest you do there is create an article that meets Wikipedia policy in a certain way -- that, beyond a certain basic definition of the term, the article is entirely made up of quotations from those articles you mentioned, from the New York Times and Wall Street Journal, etc. Here at Wikipedia, it's not what you say about yourself -- and it's ESPECIALLY not what you have had copywritten about yourself -- it's what arm's-length third-party experts say about you. So the article should be composed entirely with quotes from third-party reliable sources; those sources need to be referenced in the article in such a way that they are verifiable; it should not contain any reference to a trademarked commercial product or a specific company that offers "suspension training"; it should not contain a list of organizations that purport to use such training (again, not unless they're verifiable); and the article should be written from a neutral point of view. That's how articles are written here -- see WP:Your first article for more details.

I also wanted to mention that it's important that you "colour within the lines" this time, because your record here has already accumulated a number of black marks and is getting close to a point where one of two things might happen. If someone submits your article to what's called articles for deletion, and it fails, it is unlikely to ever be permitted to be recreated under any circumstances, under any title. Also, people who keep recreating articles over and over that get deleted over and over are rather thought to be habitual vandals, and sometimes their accounts get permanently blocked. I don't want you to see this as a threat, because it's not; I intend to do neither of those things, because I'm hoping that Wikipedia will get a useful article out of this, and I'm ready to work with you to steer it in the right direction. I just wanted you to know that not every administrator will take a rosy view of the article's possibilities, and the possibilites could be more serious than they have been to date.

So please, read up on the policies that govern what we do here, many of which are linked on this page -- policies like WP:Your first article, WP:SPAM, reliable sources, conflict of interest, neutral point of view, and verifiability. Five pillars is a GREAT place to learn our rules. I'm going to create your sandbox page, and then I'm going to trust you sufficiently to unblock Suspension training. If you have any questions or problems, I will certainly help if I'm on-line, but I'm about to go off -- 99% of the people here will help you if you ask them, and the message at the top of this page tells you how and where you ask for that help in places where you are likely to get it. Thanks for trying to work within our rules, and I look forward to reading that article. Accounting4Taste: talk 00:03, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've created your sandbox page at User:JadamFAI/Sandbox and made it possible for Suspension training to be recreated under precisely that spelling and capitalization (some others are still blocked). Accounting4Taste: talk 00:08, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Just wanted to say thanks again, sincerely appreciate the help. Trust me the last thing i want is to A) be on some kind of blacklist and B) taint the trx name in any way shape or form....im just an intern working under direction of others like me who are unaware of the wiki lifestyle, but are quickly learning. Ill play around in the sand box so to speak and wont post anything official until i've reached the perfect state of neutrality, after all i do think that wikipedia is a solid source of information and i truely feel you're here to help keep it that way. So thanks again, we'll be in touch. JadamFAI (talk) 20:32, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

So the concept is suspension training but it was created via the TRX ( total resitence exercise ) the trx is the product but if im talking about it neutrally...something like .... TRX Suspension Training®", a technique pioneered by Fitness Anywhere, is  a new category of physical conditioning born within the US Navy SEAL teams.  TRX Suspension Training focuses on building strength, balance, flexibility and core stability . ...still avoiding putting us in good light, expanding our history section and most likley replacing  user list with substantial testimonials. Also been looking at some similar pages...kettle bell anbd pilates...seems like pilates got away with a hefty "benefits" type section by meerly openning sentences with the makers intentions.  Example..."Joseph Pilates believed in circulating the blood so that it could awaken all the cells in the body and carry away the wastes related to fatigue. For the blood to do its work properly, he maintained, it has to be charged with oxygen and purged of waste gases through proper breathing." could i do something like that for our training...something like..."randy hetrick belives Killer abs are great, but more importantly, having a strong core will prevent injuries, improve posture and increase overall strength. This is because all of our movements are powered by the torso - the abs and back work together to support the spine during everyday activities and exercise. Suspension Training builds core strength with every exercise by creating an element of instability that calls on your core to provide balance and coordination." and variations of similar ideas.


 * (edit conflict) Okay, I can't help feeling that you have misunderstood what I said above, but -- the concept of suspension training is, or should be, the only thing in the article. No one cares about the registered trademarked product because no one comes to an encyclopedia to learn about that, and it's nearly impossible to discuss a registered trademarked product unless it would be known to everyone in North America, like Kleenex or Coke.  No one cares who owns the trademark unless it's Kleenex or Coke.  What someone would come to an encyclopedia to learn is, "What does 'suspension training' mean?"  If they want to know about your company, other than a note at the bottom of that article saying briefly here is a link to a company that works in that area (if that!), they will do a Google search for your advertising materials.  So see if you can answer the questions "What does 'suspension training' mean?" "How do I do it?"  "How does it work in the body?" without using the registered trademark symbol or the name of your company.  That's how you are likely to provide useful information to Wikipedia users without it being thought to be advertising -- that is the information that should be here under the heading of "Suspension training".

If you have testimonials, they have to be verifiable. That means that linking to a page of your website will not be enough -- your website isn't a reliable source.

Let me put it this way. If your product was a movie, would someone come to a Wikipedia article under the title of the movie to learn the name of the company that produced the movie and owns the copyright, and how you can get in touch with that company to license the rights to the movie? No -- they would want general information about the movie, like who's in it and what's the plot. THAT is the kind of information that Wikipedia provides. There is a tiny reason for there to be the name of the company -- ONLY -- but it's not essential to what people usually want to know about the movie. And when you say "still putting us in a good light" -- that's the whole point. There should be NO light. If you want to put yourself in a good light, go pay for advertising space somewhere. This is an encyclopedia, and people come here to learn encyclopedic information, not where and how to buy things.

Of course, if you disagree with me, you can go ahead and recreate the article the way you are suggesting. I won't touch it -- but I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that someone will delete it within the first 15 minutes of its existence as being spam. And it's very likely that someone will notice the number of times this has been deleted, and make it impossible for you to ever recreate any article under that title. I don't know how much more I can help you with this -- I don't feel like I'm being effective with my advice. Probably you should just move forward however you like, roll the dice and see what happens. Somehow I just don't think you've grasped what Wikipedia is here to do, and I'm sorry not to have been more effective. Accounting4Taste: talk 18:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I feel like i might have mispoken at some point in my question and you have focused intensly on it. First off i wrote "still avoiding putting us in good light" your advice and admin experience is blatently having effects, im asking questions here, havnt even jumped into sandbox because it would be pointless to create something wrong, multiple times. Im Not trying to post an add....im not trying to link our site....im not trying to subtly add in the product name or whatever it is you think im trying to do. If i made a movie...i would open the article with "production company's name, came out with movie title in such and such year" aka " Warner Brothers 1997 blockbuster hit "movie title". Now as much as i understand your point and realize the fact that its pointless to argue what i should be able to put in because i know quite well from experience now that articles get deleted almost instantly if theres the slightest thing out of order.  Thats why im here and still seeking your help, because im determined to educate people who happen upon our training page to learn about whats going on.  After all its not like someone whos never heard of us or who isnt a fitness freak/guru is going to type in suspension training on the wikipedia search, they may in fact have come here from one of our many other Marketing Platforms.  Im not here to create another.  You also talk about me linkikng our site quite a bit, which i dont see anywhere in my previous question. I already stated i dont wish to link us aside from at the very bottom as creator of said concept if thats even allowed without getting a speedy deletion, if i have a testimonial it will most likley be a copy and paste from the NY times archive or wall street journal etc etc (using approved wikipedia citation methods). Ive already been through the lecture proccess of how this is not the place for an AD, this is an encyclopedia, where people come to learn, not to shop, so lets move passed that if we could and just stick to what can be done. You have already shown great patience and i cant thank you enough, i cant imagine your getting paid, but even if you are, this Is a place of education and im taking that serious in every sense, so i appreciate your participation. Also, if after a little more discussion you still feel im some ignorant AD spammer whos ignoring your advice, simply state it and ill move on, ill just post a 1 sentence description of the training and move on, but id really like to take advantage of your help and knowledge and produce a worthy and meaty article to keep wikipedia readers interested, and maybe shed some light on new methods of fitness. thanks again for the help :) we can get through this even though i feel like you still have some hostile energy towards me...im doing my best to change, adapt, and produce. JadamFAI (talk) 19:18, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi again. You're right, I don't get paid -- no one here gets paid.  I think you now have everything you need to go forward; you have the links to all the basic information about the how and what and why of articles, you have the point of view idea from which the article must be produced, and you have your previous experience to guide you, and you have all my comments.  I apologize if I seemed to be in any way hostile -- that may have been a sub-text there, because I'm human, but I'm still here to help you.  Go for it -- see if you can produce a great article and make me proud.  And of course, let me know if you have questions.  I think you've also found some useful models in Pilates, although I suspect that there's a lot more reliable sources of the origins of that exercise model than you're going to be able to find for yours.  Accounting4Taste: talk 19:30, 30 June 2008 (UTC)