User talk:Jaellee/Archives/2011/December

Your help
First: Thanx for correcting my edits. You are really updating a lot of articles, great job, i wonder how you manage to do it all. Can i read somewhere how to put in the references correctly, so you do not always have to clean up after i edited a page? I am relatively new to WP editing and don't completely understand how everything works ;) Thank you and greetings, Jonathan. PS: Kannst auch auf deutsch antworten, was dir lieber ist. Jonathan0007 (talk) 16:21, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your answer. I've tried it now in this article (i guess it is on your watchlist, since you are active in the article history): Germany_national_football_team&action=history
 * I hope the way i inserted the reference is now correct. Thanks again for your help. Greetings, Jonathan. Jonathan0007 (talk) 01:02, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Since you helped me last time, i have to harrass you again :)

You probably have noticed, that i started editing footballer articles. This is the reason why i set up a WP account in the first place, i found most player articles to have a very dissatisfying quality, particularly the texts, and so i wanted to go through all players that interest me and edit their articles. You seem to be an expert, and active in a lot of those articles. My problem is this: Is there a standard on how to structure the articles of footballers? I found: Template:Infobox_Football_biography but there is nothing about the text and how to order it. The key categories seem to be:

Introdution,

Early career,

Club career (subcategory: club1 club2...),

International career (if active in a national team)(subcategory: WC Euro WC...),

International goals (sometimes subcategory of career stats, sometimes in International career),

Playing style,

Career stats (subcategory: club, national team),

Manager career (if coach)(subcategory: team1 team2...),

Honours & Awards (subcategory: club, national team, personal, records),

Personal life,

Trivia and then References & External links.

However, these categories are often in different order. Is there a standardised order for these parts in the bio articles, or can everybody sort the categories (apart from the first and the latter ones) as he/she pleases? I think it would be very helpful and make these articles clearer and more readable, if there was a standardisation.

Secondly i want to ask, is there other standards (and where can i find them) on how to edit footballer articles? Other than the usual 'bio of living person' standards, i have alread read them. I don't want to invest a lot of work and then find out, that a have to reedit all articles because in a breach of editing standard, and even less so i want to make mistakes that other editors have to clean up ;)

Greetings, Jonathan. Jonathan0007 (talk) 08:40, 8 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi, thank you again for your timely and helpful answer.
 * So I understand there is no page where all standards passed with consensus are listed? Everyone has to dig hours and hours through tons of archive, where on many issues there isn't even clear if a concensus is reached? No wonder the footballer articles do in many respects not have a common standard, because even if editors are willing to keep in line with that standards, who knows how to find them. I already have the football talk on my watchlist, but tbh most topics don't seem to be too relevant or helpful. I really don't want to be the new guy who comes into the comunity and immediately starts criticising everything, but i think it would be very helpful if the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Football/Players would be massively extended, or all standards would be neatly arranged on one page :)
 * This i mention because you and other experienced editors probably don't see how it feels to be new and motivated editing articles, you often feel an uncertainty if what you do and how you do it is 100% correct. I'm of course not only thinking about myself, but also about future editors and readers, and of course this would help to relieve the helpful regulars, such as yourself, from having to introduce WP-noobs to everything again and again. Do you think it is possible to create this overview, you know, kind of a FAQ on how to edit footballer articles?
 * Since I am - as i already stressed a couple of times - new to WP i am not sure if it can be done, but it's worth a try. We would only have to: 1. collect all unsettled issues (like that about goalkeeper infobox, or is that settled now somewhere?), i alone can already think of a dozen things that would better be standardised but are probably not right now, then 2. put them in form of a short proposal (like when you can support or oppose the deletion of an article) on the football talk - or if only two options seem useful then put some form of a poll on the football talk, and then wait an announced week or two and see what the result is. If you think this can be done i would be happy to assist you, i just refrain from initiating this alone, being a newb and all. We/I could also ask other active members to help as well, for example i see user "Walter Görlitz" active every day cultivating lots of articles. Or we could before the first step even ask on the football talk for people to name all unsettled questions and issues in article standards around football, and then just collect from there. I'm just writing while brainstorming here, you probably just realized that :D Still, i think here is a lot of room for improvement if we try a little.
 * So, please tell me what you think about this. Don't refrain from saying "stop being so keen with your exaggerated activism" if you feel i'm totally on the wrong road here. If you think it's a good idea, but you lack time or pleasure to do this, tell me too.
 * Liebe Grüße, Jonathan. Jonathan0007 (talk) 04:47, 9 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Sry for the late answer, was afk a couple days. Alright then, thank you for you explanation, i will follow this idea, but not push it immediatedly. I will probably try to learn more about this, collect topics, look for older discussions, and ask some people to help me as soon as the discussion starts, and hopefully in a couple of weeks i feel i can bring this up in a productive manner that will fowards the organisation here a little. Liebe Grüße, Jonathan. Jonathan0007 (talk) 14:46, 14 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Hey there! Thanx again for repeatedly improving my contributions, I was a bit sloppy here and there, I usually have problems finding my own mistakes right after writing the text. Also, how do I type the other "-" that is generally used in the articles? Liebe Grüße, Jonathan. Jonathan0007 (talk) 07:03, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

New club season articles
I'm currently working on the 1991–92 SV Werder Bremen season and the 2011–12 1. FSV Mainz 05 season. Both are not complete and needs some working. If you're wondering about the Werder Bremen season, that's the season they won the European Cup Winners' Cup. Kingjeff (talk) 19:12, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Can you help complete the Bundesliga matches for 1991–92 SV Werder Bremen season? Thanks. Kingjeff (talk) 20:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry. I literally finished it while you wrote your response to me. Kingjeff (talk) 20:33, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I've started on the 1963–64 Hertha BSC season. It still need some working on. I know you're busy. But maybe you can contribute when you can? Kingjeff (talk) 06:25, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Couple of things to mention
There is a deletion review here for 2011–12 Hannover 96 Season. Also, match logs for dfb.de, kicker.de and fussballdaten.de don't completely match each other for previous seasons. Kingjeff (talk) 01:00, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Goalkeepers statistics
Hello, Jaellee. I was looking at the Brad Friedel article today, and I posted the following message on the talk page: ''There needs to be a different template for goalkeepers, maybe showing "average goals scored against" or "goals scored against" or "clean sheets". The "goals scored" stat doesn't tell me anything about the 'keeper's performance.'' Later I went to the Project: Football page and looked at the templates. I didn't see any special template for goalkeepers' stats. Then I searched the talkpage archives and found your note along the same lines back in April 2010. (Most of the responses you got were obnoxious, imho.) I just wanted to ask you if you know of any further conversation about making GK stats more meaningful. Thanks. --  Kenatipo   speak! 21:59, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your response, Jaellee. --  Kenatipo    speak! 12:12, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * PS: I went back and re-read the archived discussion and then went to the page of the Ukrainian goalkeeper where an editor was putting in negative numbers for goals conceded and you were reverting him. There is a strong consensus in the archived talk against replacing "goals scored by goalkeeper" with any useful information about the keeper's performance, mostly for bad reasons as any of the measures suggested would be preferable to what we have now.  So be it.  There's no use fighting "consensus".  Thanks.  --  Kenatipo    speak! 14:30, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

1995–96 FC Bayern Munich season
1995–96 FC Bayern Munich season needs some working. Kingjeff (talk) 20:14, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

I've started the 2011–12 Bayer 04 Leverkusen season.All except the last 14 Bundesliga matches and transfers have been done. It's the same with 2011–12 Fortuna Düsseldorf season. Kingjeff (talk) 05:57, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Request
Hi there, JAELLEE, VASCO here,

Can you help me (better said, help WP!) in the Evanílson Aparecido Ferreira article? Please have a look at the situation of his contract with Borussia Dortmund after the arrival of Márcio Amoroso: i think the English there is tentative at best...i added some refs to source it, but my German is not good enough to duly retrieve it to storyline.

Attentively, thank you very much in advance, happy weekend - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 15:59, 9 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Brilliant, many thanks! --Vasco Amaral (talk) 21:02, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

2011–12 FC Schalke 04 season
Can you help with the article? Kingjeff (talk) 22:16, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry about that. It probably won't be finished before then. Kingjeff (talk) 22:57, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Uli Hoeneß
Hi there JAELLEE, VASCO here,

i do respect your work, don't know why did you make that comment...Also out of respect, i ask you this question as i see you do it often, maybe i am doing it wrong although i feel to see why: is there any particular reason to ALWAYS write "Kicker" in small letter instead of capital? Confusing.

Also, there are several types of infobox layout, i prefer to have everything regarding the same club in same line, you prefer otherwise, no problem, i won't edit Hoeness' article again, unless to add refs or similar.

Attentively, happy week - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 02:58, 13 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Why can't you reply to me regarding my KICKER doubt? I think i asked it politely... --Vasco Amaral (talk) 21:17, 13 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Again, i was a bit hasty, you in turn were polite and concise as always! Understood, did not know the magazine "referred to themselves" with a small letter. About its use as a reference, i do think they are better as links, but that's only my opinion. I have also provided some refs in the Hoeness brothers, please make any needed corrections if you wish.

Regarding the match, it was worth the wait, this guy scored ANOTHER goal from what i see (http://www.fussballdaten.de/bundesliga/2012/13/fckoeln-mainz/)... Cheers, and thanks. --Vasco Amaral (talk) 21:46, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

2011–12 FC Augsburg season‎
Would you be able to complete the transfer section? Since your German is a lot better than my German. There is a general list here and I find Kicker's advanced search engine good to use. Kingjeff (talk) 18:48, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

1986–87 1. FC Nuremberg season
Would you be able to help filling in the matches and goalscorers? Thanks. Kingjeff (talk) 07:02, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for all the help. I know it looks like that I've gone crazy on creating new club season articles. Kingjeff (talk) 22:57, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

2011–12 FC Sion season
Could you help add matches for the 2011–12 FC Sion season? Please and thanks. Kingjeff (talk) 22:32, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think any of their league matches have been voided. Just the 36 point deduction. Only their Europa League matches have been voided. Kingjeff (talk) 17:50, 31 December 2011 (UTC)