User talk:Jaguar/Archive 6

P.R.C. townships, again
Hi there! It is good of course that articles on township-level divisions of many Chinese provinces are being created. (I created a few in my day as well, e.g. Sandouping). However, it is highly desirable that already at the creation stages, we provide some correct information and no incorrect (or misleading) info. Here's a rather typical first edit to such a recently created article: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shijing_Subdistrict&diff=481840099&oldid=479335040

As one can see, it is at least desirable that...


 * If you have a link to something like List of township-level divisions of Fujian, let's make sure it points to the right province.
 * It is desirable that each article for a township-level division indicates what county-level division (county, county-level city, district) this township-level division is.
 * It is desirable that the name in Chinese characters be provided. I see that you're using a link to a Chinese resource, http://www.xzqh.org/html/gu/ (which, unfortunately, is not accessible at the moment - I assume you have a locally cached version); so I presume that the name of each township is given in Chinese characters in that source, isn't it?
 * Many townships already have an article on zh.wiki, so the interwiki ought to be provided where appropriate.
 * Many articles for county-level divisions already have lists of the county's township-level divisions. I feel that if you take the trouble to create all those township articles, you ought to at least take a look at the article for the "parent" county-level entity and wikify the township list, or, if it is not there, create it.
 * Also, when creating new articles you ought to check for the same name used elsewhere (Heshi, Longchuan County, Guangdong; Heshi, Quanzhou; Heshi, Iran) and create a disambiguation pages when appropriate.
 * You may consider adding more useful categories to each category besides Category:Township-level divisions of Fujian etc. There are probably many hundreds township-level divisions in each province, and many dozens in each of its prefectures. Each prefecture already has - or ought to have - its own cat, e.g. Category:Quanzhou. One can place each township of Quanzhou directly into Category:Quanzhou, but it may "flood" it, making it hard to find other, non-township articles in Category:Quanzhou. So perhaps creating something like Category:Township-level divisions of Quanzhou, and making it a subcat of both Category:Quanzhou and Category:Township-level divisions of Fujian won't be amiss.

This of course may reduce the rate at which new articles are created, but will make them at least marginally useful.

With best regards, -- Vmenkov (talk) 04:35, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the message. I know that I have made a few mistakes in the past and I have corrected them quickly when I found out about them. The xzqh website is broken at the moment but I have used another source through Google Translate, so either way it works. I do understand that using these methods you gave me does slow down the speed that the articles would be created, however I really don't want to harm the speed. I can usually create 100 articles in around ten minutes and I usually create 200 a day or 1200 a week if I'm lucky and if I have enough time. I'll see if I can fix some of those links you've showed me and create some extra categories. User:Guerrilla of the Renmin has also created many disambiguation pages for Chinese townships and has thankfully created hundreds of red links! Regards, Jaguar (talk) 15:31, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

"... however I really don't want to harm the speed" - in other words, you want to see as many township articles created within a given time period as possible; or, conversely, to minimize the per-article article creation cost. I am not going to argue against your goals - I appreciate that the creation of numerous articles is, apparently, a goal of yours. However, I suggest considering not just the cost of "creating" a micro-stub article, but the total cost of creating an article and making it somewhat useful for our readership. Low-content articles like this http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shuitou,_Nan%27an,_Fujian&oldid=478445220 can be created by a simple bot script, and, really, convey less information to the reader than what can be found in List of township-level divisions of Fujian. So what I would suggest is that instead of creating articles by hand, perhaps you can look into the bot script language, and learn how to write a somewhat more complicated scripts. A somewhat useful script could e.g. take a data list of the kind found in List of township-level divisions of Fujian, and create an article for each township that would contain several additional pieces of information (Chinese character spelling, zh: interwiki if available, the name of the county-level units...) There will be some learning stage of course, and some bureaucratic issues, but ultimately the project may result in the creation of a greater number of stub articles, each with somewhat more useful info than the current micro-stubs do. -- Vmenkov (talk) 18:32, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, when it comes to bot scripts and language like that I don't have a clue, but I wouldn't mind having a User:JaguarBot at my disposal! I fear that would create too many arguements with the people at WP:BAG, since you have to approach them carefully when you mass-create articles like me. Any article I can create can of course be expanded by any Chinese reader, and if they can come across an article they can write about it there. If it's a content issue you are worrying about, I can extend the wording of the article, add a few more links and create a new category like you had suggested above. Jaguar (talk) 18:49, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Smile!

 * OK! Jaguar   (talk)  19:49, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Your new stubs
Hello my friend. I try to keep an eye on Hainan-related articles. I am wondering if you have a list of any of the new stubs that are about Hainan, so I can add navboxes, or photos for the infoboxes. Many thanks if you can help. Best wishes, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:12, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, the whole list of townships in Hainan can be found at List of township-level divisions of Hainan. That's where I create all the villages in China! Regards, Jaguar   (talk)  09:58, 6 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Actually, I have those bookmarked. I was wondering about new ones you just created. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:17, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * That was the list of new ones I created as I only create townships in China. All those blue links there were the new stubs that I had created, unless you're asking for something else? Regards Jaguar   (talk)  12:14, 6 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see. I understand now. Sorry. Thank you for you help. And thank you for starting the stubs. I will do my best to expand them where I can. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:25, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for expanding them! It's about time that those articles were expanded, as there are thousands more to come! ;) Jaguar   (talk)  19:24, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

CSVLoader
Making you aware of this excellent tool:


 * User:Ganeshk/CSVLoader

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:07, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
 * That's incredible, thank you! That will save me from getting arthritis when I'm older! Jaguar   (talk)  11:15, 11 April 2012 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. And Ganeshk is very helpful. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:08, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * He is, and I think I understand how to use that CSV script now, but I still don't know if doing it manual is faster - or there could be something in AWB I haven't found out yet. I know that Ganeshbot has created 19,000 articles! Jaguar   (talk)  21:55, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Dongzhi Subdistrict
You've forgotten to change the province.♦ Dr. Blofeld  18:57, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, fixed! Jaguar   (talk)  18:59, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * "Dongzhi Subdistrict (Chinese: ?) is a township-level division situated in the Harbin district of Hainan, China" - so is it in Harbin (Heilongjiang) or in Hainan, after all? -- Vmenkov (talk) 04:02, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It's in Heilongjiang, I forgot to copy and paste in those links. Jaguar   (talk)  11:38, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Happy to be of help. AWB should fix it up in no time. :-)


 * Incidentally, thanks for creating all of these Chinese subdivision articles - they are greatly needed, and go a long way to helping plug a large hole in our coverage. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 18:46, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * There we are - all finished. :-) -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 18:57, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

New article stubs, Chinese townships etc.
Hi, I'm sure that you're acting in good faith in creating a vast number of new stub articles on Chinese townships and other administrative subdivisions but there are some issues with these that need to be addressed to avoid compromising the quality of Wikipedia.

Because pinyin can be ambiguous, creating a stub article without the associated Chinese characters can require a lot of work for a subsequent editor to work out what they are. For example, your article Wenru could be 文缛， 文儒， 温儒 or a host of others (actually it is 文儒). Staying with the Wenru example, this is a township, not a subdistrict as it says in the infobox. There is also no mention of which county it is in (Chengmai County), which is really a minimum requirement for articles of this sort otherwise they serve no useful purpose. There are also a couple of issues with the reference link; it should have a more meaningful title and should point to the actual page that (in this case), Wenru appears on - I can't find any reference to it. You also need to fix the date issue using subst - at the moment the date displayed is today's date according to the user's browser, which is incorrect. In general, piping through Google translate is not best practice as it is not always accurate.

I haven't looked at all the articles you have created but Limin Subdistrict for example says that it is in Hainan, which is plain wrong. Shiren, Harbin has the same problem and there may be others.

Please address these issues before creating any more article stubs.

Best Regards, ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 07:16, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree. In fact, I really could use the Chinese spelling. A number of these stubs really confuse me. I was not sure how they fit into the picture and went looking for sources, etc. I came up empty. Thanks. And thanks Phil for pointing this out too. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for both of your concerns. I've already addressed some of those issues (there's an older post above). I know that I do make mistakes sometimes like for example I forgot to change the province from Hainan to Heloijjang, but they are always speedily fixed by me or if not other users. Also, I know that sometimes the references lead to Google Translate (I think that's a mistake where I translated the page to read), but it still links to the correct reference. I'll fix that that are ussed on the articles. Regards  Jaguar   (talk)  13:38, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the comments on board Jaguar but please don't leave mistakes in the articles you've created for other editors to correct. There is a danger that articles with errors will mislead users as well as detracting from the overall quality of Wikipedia so it's best that you fix them before moving on to something else. All the best, ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 14:16, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I do correct most of them myself; but before I move on and create more I will double check if there are any more mistakes, and I will fix them. Thanks, Jaguar   (talk)  16:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you very much! :) Jaguar   (talk)  19:17, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Article Creation
How are you making them so quick? You're doing like 15 a minute. --Tomtomn00 (talk • contributions) 18:59, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I try to aim to do at least 250 a day, should take around half an hour. My article creation is manual, all it takes is a fast enough browser that can handle creating lots of tabs and deleting them etc. Regards Jaguar   (talk)  19:03, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * What browser do you use? I've got a line-up of 11700+ articles to do manually, and Safari is too slow. --Tomtomn00 (talk • contributions) 19:05, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm using Google Chrome at the moment because my computer is broke. It's faster deleting the tabs, but slower creating them! I usually use Firefox because it's always the fastest and can always create tabs faster. Jaguar   (talk)  19:06, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I have to make sure not to fill up New Pages. --Tomtomn00 (talk • contributions) 19:10, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah same with me but I only create all these articles for a certain amount of time. Sure it does flood New Pages but after a while people don't mind it! Jaguar   (talk)  19:13, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Aihui Town
What's that, pray tell? The place in reality is in a different prefecture. Are there many other "articles" like that? -- Vmenkov (talk) 05:13, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, prefecture mistakes like that are very rare. I just create the articles of the List of township-level divisions in Heilongjiang - I had no idea that Aihui Town would be in a different prefecture. Regards Jaguar   (talk)  12:46, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've just found out that Aihui Town is in Heihe, not Hegang. Thank you for pointing that one out! Jaguar   (talk)  12:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Hey Jaguar, how are you? Please be careful with what you're creating with articles like Aihui Town - Heihe is not a "province" it's a city - check out Administrative divisions of the People's Republic of China to get the low down on how these divisions all fit together - note there is no such thing as a prefecture, it's an archaic term. Please amend any articles that you've already created that have the same mistake. Best, ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 14:21, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the comment. I never call them Prefectures, I just refer to them as 'Provinces' and I know that Heihe is wrong. I can assure you that there aren't anymore of those mistakes, even if there were, I would fix them. Mistakes like that are very rare anyway! Thanks, Jaguar   (talk)  17:42, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

"Province" is a word that has a very specific meaning with respect to China: these are 20-something top-level units (from Heilongjiang in the north to Hainan in the south), and the word should not be used for anything else. (There were more of them in the past, but surely you aren't writing about historical proivinces). "Prefecture" is indeed not a very correct word, but I am using it sometimes as a shorthand for all prefecture-lebel units (viz., prefecture-level cities and autonomous prefectures) into which every province is divided. -- Vmenkov (talk) 20:03, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

problems in references
Hi there mate, could you please go through the references of all the Chinese stubs you created.

Many of them have errors. Some point to pages that have nothing to do with the subject of each article. Some have invalid URL's that take you nowhere.

It is necessary as per Wikipedia guidelines that every time you create an article (even if it's a stub) it must have at least one correct reference.

Cheers,

Azylber (talk) 10:01, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I know that some of them has errors but I think that's because that Chinese website 'xzqh' went done a couple of months ago and made all those links invalid. Most of them have been corrected now but here may be a few with broken links. I'll try and find and fix them. Regards Jaguar   (talk)  14:46, 14 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi, that's not what I mean. Some of the references are not valid URL's, i.e. just from looking at them you can tell they're not going to work, without even clicking on them, do you know what I mean?
 * That's problem 1. Problem 2 is that some of the internal links in the stubs you created point to the wrong province. E.g. in an article about a town in province X, if you click on districts it sends you to the list of districts of province Y.
 * Do you think you could fix these 2 problems in all your existing stubs before creating new stubs with the same issues?
 * Cheers, Azylber (talk) 16:28, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah I know that there are a few mistakes in some articles that I have made myself but they are often speedily corrected. I'll have a look at some of these articles and maybe correct them using AWB. Regards Jaguar   (talk)  16:54, 15 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your reply. Are you planning to slow down at all your stub creation so you can take a proper look at references that are wrong, references that are missing and internal links that are wrong? Azylber (talk) 10:54, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The thing is is that there are actually far fewer mistakes than you think. I remember back in April I created a whole batch of articles and I knew that there was a mistake in that ref, but it was indeed too late to correct that batch I created. I'll correct them using AWB this week! Mistakes like that can happen, and I can assure you they won't happen again. It serves me right. I think I'll slow down now and look at some of the 10,000 Chinese townships I've created. Jaguar   (talk)  20:09, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure how many of these 10,000 stubs actually have at least one correct reference. I've looked at a few dozens of your articles taken at random and most of them have a reference that doesn't point anywhere. These includes some of your most recent ones. I think it would be sensible to stop creating stubs and make sure all the ones you've created have a correct reference. There is no point in replacing red links with stubs that are wrong. This is also a violation of the conditions under which the autopatrolled right is given.Azylber (talk) 10:07, 17 May 2012 (UTC)